2011 wrote: » Yes, many different types of socket outlets are permitted by ET101 for different applications. However according to 554 socket-outlets for "general purposes indoors" must comply with I.S. 411.
SpaceTime wrote: » Centrally controlled lamps aren't a general purpose though.
2011 wrote: » I am not suggesting that they are. I am suggesting that the items in post #10 would be best supplied from a general purpose sockets.
SpaceTime wrote: » Ah, OK.. yeah there's no reason to fit non-standard plugs to those.
I know of one US tourist who brought a multi-plug adaptor to Ireland that included pins for connecting to indian plugs (BS546). She managed to plug a hairdryer into a dimmed lamp socket and basically blew the dimmer taking out all the lights in the room.
2011 wrote: » I agree that many people are capable of taking part in and do take part in many different activities that expose them to a degree of risk. If not done correctly these activities can result in damage to property, injury or a fatality. These activities include (but are not limited to) the following: 1) Scuba diving. 2) Sailing. 3) Driving a car. 4) Riding a motorbike. 5) Shooting a gun. 6) Welding. 7) Sky diving. 8) Wiring a 13A plug. 9) Crossing the road. I also feel that some people should not attempt any of the above activities. But it is not my opinion that counts. What we aim to do on this forum is explain what would be generally considered "best practice" and inline with the regulations and recommendations made by the ETCI. So when you say this: I state that I "would not recommend" it because in my opinion this does not align with best practice. Furthermore according to 554.0: "Plugs and sockets for general purposes indoors must comply with I.S. 411." You can read all about the Statutory Instrument S.I. No. 526 of 1997 that deals with this here. In the National Rules for Electrical Installations ET101:2008 they define Portable Equipment as: "Equipment that is designed to be moved while in operation or moved easily from one place to another while connected to the supply." Fixed equipment is defined as: "Equipment fastened to a support or otherwise secured at a specific location." So when reading the regulations it is the above definitions should be referred to. There are sockets intended solely for the connection of standard lamps or table lamps. The ones that I am familiar with are rated at 5A. In my opinion table lamps would fit the definition of "portable equipment" provided above .
Sir Arthur Daley wrote: » Where do i start.. You took up my post all wrong, i was merely asking you a couple of simple questions. This has nothing to do with who knows the most forum rules or whatever else. I was coming to the point that their is a major flaw in the way 5 amp sockets are wired. If you waited another post you would have found out instead of going away off topic.
SpaceTime wrote: » In theory, no you shouldn't really make up adaptor cables for the 5amp sockets that might allow them to be used for normal devices. It would be a little bit of a bad idea as they're there to ensure nothing else is plugged into the circuit other than a lamp. I can't really see why you wouldn't be allowed to simply make up a extension lead Also, I'm not entirely sure if those sockets are protected by an RCD, so to be honest, I wouldn't like using them, especially with metal-bodied lamps or anything that you're going to be touching a lot.
Robbie.G wrote: » This was my point exactly.
SpaceTime wrote: » In theory, no you shouldn't really make up adaptor cables for the 5amp sockets that might allow them to be used for normal devices. It would be a little bit of a bad idea as they're there to ensure nothing else is plugged into the circuit other than a lamp. You can purchase BS546 trailing sockets in 5amp variety, http://www.videk.co.uk/section.php/2751/1/15-5amp-trailing-sockets. I can't really see why you wouldn't be allowed to simply make up a compatible extension lead. I've never seen a double adaptor for this kind of socket. Just remember though the maximum load allowed is 5amps (5amps X 220V = 1100W) by design, the reality is the circuit probably shouldn't have anything that heavy plugged into it anyway though. I'd limit it to maximum 2amps for a luminary (like maximum 400-500W) Also, I'm not entirely sure if those sockets are protected by an RCD, so to be honest, I wouldn't like using them, especially with metal-bodied lamps or anything that you're going to be touching a lot. A cable coupler is what would spring to mind too : http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/plugs-fuses/B-and-Q-Plug-And-Socket-10-Amp-3-Pin-12728594 not sure if that's legal in Ireland or not ?
mikeyjames9 wrote: » lighting sockets are RCD protected thinks it's been said 3-4 times already there's some possibility of misuse and maybe overheating at the socket but the circuit fixed wiring is protected at the distribution board
Sir Arthur Daley wrote: » You took up my post all wrong, i was merely asking you a couple of simple questions.
This has nothing to do with who knows the most forum rules or whatever else.
I was coming to the point that their is a major flaw in the way 5 amp sockets are wired.
If you waited another post you would have found out instead of going away off topic.
SpaceTime wrote: » Great! I humbly apologise for trying to help. I won't bother you again.
SpaceTime wrote: » Our lighting sockets most definitely are not RCD protected. 1970s/80s wiring. They're just straight off 10amp MCBs and we don't use them. Other sockets are all RCD protected though. Out of curiosity was that legal in the late 70s early 80s?
2011 wrote: » I'm still waiting. When will the flaw be revealed ?
SpaceTime wrote: » Wouldn't a sustained overload just blow the 13amp plug's fuse?
mikeyjames9 wrote: » they tend to overheat the surroundings
carlson wrote: » Is there a limit on the input to a particular socket or is the limit done on the circuit of the room. i.e. can two lamps be plugged into one 5 amp socket if the third one is never used.
carlson wrote: » I see the discussion has escalated beyond laymans terms! All my rooms have dimmers connected to 5 amp sockets, I also have spots with dimmers , in fact there are dimmers in every room except for the kids rooms.( they still have switches connected to 5 amp plugs) the architect was really into lighting! My thinking is that there are 3 x 5amp sockets in this particular room but only 2 are usable as one is up against a wall with nothing nearby One has a standard lamp plugged in and the other has a lamp on the table beside the sofa Is there a limit on the input to a particular socket or is the limit done on the circuit of the room. i.e. can two lamps be plugged into one 5 amp socket if the third one is never used. I have put 5 amp sockets on a lot of lamps in the house - only on one occasion I had to get a special bulb but the rest have worked fine.
mikeyjames9 wrote: » you plug a portable lamp fitting into each socket you switch off the portable lamp at the wall switch location that is the guideline...
Sir Arthur Daley wrote: » Who has set out this guideline?
Sir Arthur Daley wrote: » Lets take a real life senario. John and Mary happily married couple planning their daughters communion party. They are doing their own catering. Mary goes on ebay looking for a berko boiler as her friend Joan has one and states by it for keeping up with having boiling water. What ever Joan has Mary wants. Second hand burker arrives and no plug top on it, midly disappointed she vibers John at work to pick up a plug on the way home. John being John forgot. Mary has all the catering set up in the conservatory and wants her burker working for the party in a few days, so John sees the 5 amp plug top with the lamp plugged into it and he has a blue peter moment. He dewires the plug and wires up the plug, nothing happens then he thinks oh i must turn on light switch and woila John has the burker working and marriage saved. So we have a 2.5kw burker connected to a 5 amp plug and socket and quite possibly through a 6 amp light switch (not uncommon). The 10 amp mcb (which i have seen quite often protecting 5 amp socket) will happily entertain the 2.5kw. It would give a 3kw burker a run for its money too. Is John wrong to have done this? No in my book anyway. The home owner is not expected to know what a 5 amp lighting is for or not for. He saw a solution which other home owners would easily see.
2011 wrote: » I really don't know what you are expecting me to say. If someone without the necessary skills and training messes around with electricity there can be consequences, sometimes serious regardless of how good their intentions are. Whether the person carrying out the "gunter" is wrong or not will be of little consolation if there is a fatality.The laws of physics also applies to the untrained.
