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5 amp light socket - extension idea

carlson

Hi there

I have a sofa up against a wall with a table on each side. There is a lamp on both tables but a 5 amp socket only on one side (normal sockets also on both sides)

The 5 amp sockets (there are 3) in the room are turned on by a dimmer switch.

Can I put a 5amp plug on an extension cord and plug the two lamps into the extension so both lights come on at the same time via dimmer or will that overload things?

House was renovated completely 2 years ago and is awash with sockets except for this particular place.

Secondly if this is not possible do they make double adaptors for 5 amp plugs?

As you can gather I am fairly clueless. Any advice appreciated

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Robbie.G

carlson wrote: »

Hi there

I have a sofa up against a wall with a table on each side. There is a lamp on both tables but a 5 amp socket only on one side (normal sockets also on both sides)

The 5 amp sockets (there are 3) in the room are turned on by a dimmer switch.

Can I put a 5amp plug on an extension cord and plug the two lamps into the extension so both lights come on at the same time via dimmer or will that overload things?

House was renovated completely 2 years ago and is awash with sockets except for this particular place.

Secondly if this is not possible do they make double adaptors for 5 amp plugs?

As you can gather I am fairly clueless. Any advice appreciated

Only if the extension has 5amp plugs on it.the whole lot needs to off standard sockets and plugs

carlson

Sorry I am a bit unclear are you saying

If the lamps with standard plugs are plugged into the extension cord with standard sockets and I put a 5 amp plug on the extension and plug it into my 5 amp socket on the wall this will trip everything/be dangerous?

2011

carlson wrote: »

I have a sofa up against a wall with a table on each side. There is a lamp on both tables but a 5 amp socket only on one side (normal sockets also on both sides)
The 5 amp sockets (there are 3) in the room are turned on by a dimmer switch.

First of all I do not think that it is a good idea having a dimmer switch feeding 5A socket outlets.

The issues with this are:
1) The lighting load may exceed the rating of the dimmer that is feeding it.
2) Many lights are not compatible with dimmers.
3) Certain lights require a specific type of dimmer.

Can I put a 5amp plug on an extension cord and plug the two lamps into the extension so both lights come on at the same time via dimmer or will that overload things?

I would not recommend this.

My advice would be to install additional 5A sockets, remove the dimmer switch from where it is at present. If dimmers are required install inline dimmers of the flex that supplies the light fittings themselves.

House was renovated completely 2 years ago and is awash with sockets except for this particular place.

Robbie.G

carlson wrote: »

Sorry I am a bit unclear are you saying

If the lamps with standard plugs are plugged into the extension cord with standard sockets and I put a 5 amp plug on the extension and plug it into my 5 amp socket on the wall this will trip everything/be dangerous?

The reason for this is you can't plug something on a standard 13a socket into the extension as the switch is only rated at 6-10a and not through a rcd.

2011

Robbie.G wrote: »

The reason for this is you can't plug something on a standard 13a socket into the extension as the switch is only rated at 6-10a and not through a rcd.

Why would 5A sockets not be fed from an RCD?

I agree that putting a 13A socket on a 5A plug would not be advisable.
The other concern is that an expensive non-dimmable device is plugged into the 13A socket and the dimmer is turned down :eek:

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

First of all I do not think that it is a good idea having a dimmer switch feeding 5A socket outlets.

The issues with this are:
1) The lighting load may exceed the rating of the dimmer that is feeding it.
2) Many lights are not compatible with dimmers.
3) Certain lights require a specific type of dimmer.

This school of thought is relevant to ceiling lighting too not just 5 amp lighting. Do you have an equal view on using dimmers on ceiling or wall lighting?

mikeyjames9

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

This school of thought is relevant to ceiling lighting too not just 5 amp lighting. Do you have an equal view on using dimmers on ceiling or wall lighting?

no it is not the same

the 5amp outlets are for portable lamps(edit typo Arthur Daley)

the 5amp wall outlets are not dedicated to a particular bulb and should be compatible with all lamps strictly speaking

2011

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

This school of thought is relevant to ceiling lighting too not just 5 amp lighting.

Apples and oranges!

Ceiling lighting uses fixed (permanently connected) appliances that have been installed (in theory) by a Registered Electrical Contractor or at least by what CER refers to as a "competent person".

On the other hand socket outlets are for the connection of portable equipment. These are installed so that any device with a suitable plugtop can be connected by a person that is not necessarily electrically competent. This is why the regulations for sockets are very different to those for fixed appliances.

Sir Arthur Daley

Is it ok now to put 5 amp plugs on power tools etc, domestic appliances, tvs other electronics?

2011

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Is it ok now to put 5 amp plugs on power tools etc, domestic appliances, tvs other electronics?

If a person were to make an adapter as described by the OP it would be possible to power devices such as the ones listed in your post from 5A socket outlets. This is not what 5A sockets are designed for.

To say that I would not recommend this would be an understatement

mikeyjames9

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Is it ok now to put 5 amp plugs on power tools etc, domestic appliances, tvs other electronics?

no, they are intended "solely" for table lamps

sockets for "general use "must comply with IS.411

Sir Arthur Daley

mikeyjames9 wrote: »

no, they are intended "solely" for table lamps

sockets for "general use "must comply with IS.411

You said earlier they are for portable units, can you define what is a portable unit?

Bruthal

carlson wrote: »

Sorry I am a bit unclear are you saying

If the lamps with standard plugs are plugged into the extension cord with standard sockets and I put a 5 amp plug on the extension and plug it into my 5 amp socket on the wall this will trip everything/be dangerous?

2011 wrote: »

If a person were to make an adapter as described by the OP it would be possible to power devices such as the ones listed in your post from 5A socket outlets. This is not what 5A sockets are designed for.

To say that I would not recommend this would be an understatement

It's like deja vu this. I remember the exact same thing discussed before. Looks like the op wants to put 5 amp plugs and 13 amp sockets as a lead alright. Not a good idea.

2011

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

You said earlier they are for portable units, can you define what is a portable unit?

Basically it is something that you plug in.

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

Basically it is something that you plug in.

And what is a something?

The reason i ask is isn't there a flaw in 5 amp lighting sockets in terms of electrical design?

mikeyjames9

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

And what is a something?

The reason i ask is isn't there a flaw in 5 amp lighting sockets in terms of electrical design?

what flaw?

they are designed for portable table lamps

are controlled by a switch

are rcd protected

Sir Arthur Daley

mikeyjames9 wrote: »

what flaw?

they are designed for portable table lamps

are controlled by a switch

are rcd protected

And portable units whatever they are .

2011

What is the flaw?
Any electrical appliance that is not permanently connected (such as a cooker or alarm panel) is "portable". A vacuum cleaner would be an example of a portable appliance. If a unit such as a TV were to be fed from a spur outlet it then becomes a fixed appliance and different rules apply.

mikeyjames9

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

And portable units whatever they are .

that was an error

2011

The issue is when devices are used in a way that they are not designed to be used. "Portable equipment" is a term used throughout the regulations, ET101:2008

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

The issue is when devices are used in a way that they are not designed to be used. "Portable equipment" is a term used throughout the regulations, ET101:2008

Is it fair to say every home owner should know this?

mikeyjames9

there may be an argument that the outlets should be marked for their specific purpose

ie ;PORTABLE LIGHTING ONLY

to prevent their misuse with other types of portable appliances

2011

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Is it fair to say every home owner should know this?

My mother doesn't

But she would have enough intelligence not to muck about with electricity.
What's your point?

Sir Arthur Daley

2011 wrote: »

My mother doesn't
But she would have enough intelligence not to muck about with electricity.

Alot of home owners are well capable of wiring a plug and do wire plugs would you agree?

What's your point?

We are getting to it, the night is young yet. Do you still agree that 5 amp sockets are also for portable units?

mikeyjames9

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Alot of home owners are well capable of wiring a plug and do wire plugs would you agree?

We are getting to it, the night is young yet. Do you still agree that 5 amp sockets are also for portable units?

portable "unit" doesn't mean anything

they are specifically for portable lamps

this is all covered in the wiring rules

Robbie.G

2011 wrote: »

Why would 5A sockets not be fed from an RCD?

I agree that putting a 13A socket on a 5A plug would not be advisable.
The other concern is that an expensive non-dimmable device is plugged into the 13A socket and the dimmer is turned down :eek:

If the 5a sockets are controlled from a switch it's highly unlikely they're through the rcd as they're probably fead from a lighting circuit

2011

Sir Arthur Daley wrote: »

Alot of home owners are well capable of wiring a plug and do wire plugs would you agree?

I agree that many people are capable of taking part in and do take part in many different activities that expose them to a degree of risk.
If not done correctly these activities can result in damage to property, injury or a fatality.
These activities include (but are not limited to) the following:

1) Scuba diving.
2) Sailing.
3) Driving a car.
4) Riding a motorbike.
5) Shooting a gun.
6) Welding.
7) Sky diving.
8) Wiring a 13A plug.
9) Crossing the road.

I also feel that some people should not attempt any of the above activities.
But it is not my opinion that counts.

What we aim to do on this forum is explain what would be generally considered "best practice" and inline with the regulations and recommendations made by the ETCI.

So when you say this:

Is it ok now to put 5 amp plugs on power tools etc, domestic appliances, tvs other electronics?

I state that I "would not recommend" it because in my opinion this does not align with best practice.
Furthermore according to 554.0:
"Plugs and sockets for general purposes indoors must comply with I.S. 411."

You can read all about the Statutory Instrument S.I. No. 526 of 1997 that deals with this here.

In the National Rules for Electrical Installations ET101:2008 they define Portable Equipment as:
"Equipment that is designed to be moved while in operation or moved easily from one place to another while connected to the supply."

Fixed equipment is defined as:
"Equipment fastened to a support or otherwise secured at a specific location."

So when reading the regulations it is the above definitions should be referred to.

Do you still agree that 5 amp sockets are also for portable units?

There are sockets intended solely for the connection of standard lamps or table lamps.
The ones that I am familiar with are rated at 5A.
In my opinion table lamps would fit the definition of "portable equipment" provided above .

2011

Robbie.G wrote: »

If the 5a sockets are controlled from a switch it's highly unlikely they're through the rcd as they're probably fead from a lighting circuit

According to National Rules for Electrical Installations 554.5.1 which refers specifically to socket-outlets intended solely for lamps "RCD protection is required for such circuits".

SpaceTime

Seems that BS546 (round pin UK sockets) and Schuko (Continental type 16 amp sockets) are defined in that statutory instrument too.
As specified in sub-clause 4.1 of Irish Standard 180:1973

British Standard 546:1950 including Supplement No. 1 and amendments 1953, 1961, 1969, 1977, 1982, 1987 and 1989.

As specified in sub-clause 4.3 of Irish Standard 180:1973

CEE Publication 7:1963 (Standard Sheets IV and VII) and modifications 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1981 = CEE 7 family of connectors also known as Schuko.

Both were used historically here.

I noticed CEE 7/4 installed quite a bit in Irish hotel rooms these days too.

2011

SpaceTime wrote: »

Seems that BS546 (round pin UK sockets) and Schuko (Continental type 16 amp sockets) are defined in that statutory instrument too.
As specified in sub-clause 4.1 of Irish Standard 180:1973

British Standard 546:1950 including Supplement No. 1 and amendments 1953, 1961, 1969, 1977, 1982, 1987 and 1989.

As specified in sub-clause 4.3 of Irish Standard 180:1973

CEE Publication 7:1963 (Standard Sheets IV and VII) and modifications 1972, 1973, 1974 and 1981 = CEE 7 family of connectors also known as Schuko.

Yes, many different types of socket outlets are permitted by ET101 for different applications.

However according to 554 socket-outlets for "general purposes indoors" must comply with I.S. 411.