M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Another bad crash on the N20 today.

At the junction for the Munster driving campus. On the 2+1 section in an area with no wire rope barrier due to three side road junctions in 50 or so metres.

Only saw one car when I passed. It was on its roof in the verge. Don't know if anyone was injured. Hope not....

The crash happened outside the Pale / Mayo so little notice will be taken.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The crash happened outside the Pale / Mayo so little notice will be taken.

Slightly cynical.

spacetweek wrote: »

Slightly cynical.

IMO, we have the most insular Minister for Transport in my lifetime. His ignorance of what is actually happening outside of the Pale is simply stunning. I get the impression that he thinks everyone has perfect access to public transport nationwide from the way he was talking before Christmas.

blindsider

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/wish-you-were-where-29889037.html

Garrett Fitzgerald, CEO Munster Rugby:

....Lastly, I'd urge the Government to reconsider developing the Cork-Limerick motorway which would reduce the travel time from 90 minutes to 50. Not only would be it make much easier access for supporters coming to Munster games, but it would be a significant boost for the economy in the province and would pay for itself over 10 to 20 years.

I hope GF is lobbying in some way - it's the only hope we have of sth happening in the next 10 years.

kub

blindsider wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/wish-you-were-where-29889037.html

Garrett Fitzgerald, CEO Munster Rugby:

....Lastly, I'd urge the Government to reconsider developing the Cork-Limerick motorway which would reduce the travel time from 90 minutes to 50. Not only would be it make much easier access for supporters coming to Munster games, but it would be a significant boost for the economy in the province and would pay for itself over 10 to 20 years.

I hope GF is lobbying in some way - it's the only hope we have of sth happening in the next 10 years.

Unfortunately as far as the Transport Minister is concerned, the roads to his Leinster games in RDS and Aviva are perfectly adequate for his team.

While I know the M20 is off the table in the short term, I took a look at a brochure showing the preferred route.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/schemes/files/M20BacksmlFINAL.pdf

Am I right in saying that part of the present route north of Blarney is going to be retrofitted as motorway ? Looks like it from the brochure. I presume the old Mallow road from Blackpool will suffice as an alternative route ?

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

While I know the M20 is off the table in the short term, I took a look at a brochure showing the preferred route.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/schemes/files/M20BacksmlFINAL.pdf

Am I right in saying that part of the present route north of Blarney is going to be retrofitted as motorway ? Looks like it from the brochure. I presume the old Mallow road from Blackpool will suffice as an alternative route ?

Its a retrofit from Blarney to Burnfort Junction, 5 miles south of Mallow.

I think there was to be a minor road running alongside a fair bit of the retro fit section due to the number of existing minor roads, dwellings and field accesses that needed to be catered for.

I presume they'll have to go offline in a few parts though ? Isn't there a small village near Bottlehill which will have to be bypassed ?

The other issue is the section between Blarney and Blackpool. In my mind, this section is good enough for a 120kph limit. The old Mallow road is still in place and you can still access Blarney via other roads. Will be interesting to see will this section be redesignated to Motorway or at least have its speed limit upped.

The last thing is the N20 Wikipedia page. The bottom has a proposed junction box. The junction box mentions roads such as the M23 and the N64 ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N20_road_(Ireland)

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The last thing is the N20 Wikipedia page. The bottom has a proposed junction box. The junction box mentions roads such as the M23 and the N64 ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N20_road_(Ireland)

Some bizarre edits there alright. Looks like a roads fantasist got hold of it. It also says Cookbound instead of Citybound.

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I presume they'll have to go offline in a few parts though ? Isn't there a small village near Bottlehill which will have to be bypassed ?

If you are referring to Rathduff, the Motorway was to go straight through it, as the N20 currently does.

cjpm wrote: »

If you are referring to Rathduff, the Motorway was to go straight through it, as the N20 currently does.

Are you sure? Doesn't sound right. There's a bus stop right there and everything.

spacetweek wrote: »

Are you sure? Doesn't sound right. There's a bus stop right there and everything.

http://www.corkrdo.ie/schemes/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

Brochure seems to indicated that it'll go straight through alright. Will be like Kilmacanogue in Wicklow with the N11.

Looking at that map though, it doesn't seem to indicated the building of a 2 lane access road to the side for non motorway traffic ?

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Looking at that map though, it doesn't seem to indicated the building of a 2 lane access road to the side for non motorway traffic ?

Nah, I can see one in there, below (i.e. east) of the proposed road, marked "Eastern Parallel Road".

spacetweek wrote: »

Are you sure? Doesn't sound right. There's a bus stop right there and everything.

There is a small shop just off the N20 on the Grenagh Road which was to be CPO'd in order to fit the M20.

From the M17/M18 thread.

mydiscworld wrote: »

Can someone explain where both the North and South sections are proposed to start and end?

IIRC, the North section was to end somewhere between Buttevant and Mallow.

As it stands, north of Mallow to Cork City isn't too bad. Its certainly nothing nearly as bad as the remaining section of road. Mallow is already bypassed to a degree and there's no real towns after mallow on the road which cause traffic.

Its likely for this reason that the North section will get the go ahead long before the South section.

antoobrien

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

IIRC, the North section was to end somewhere between Buttevant and Mallow.

I ad to go digging into the thread but I found some maps that show the route proposed routes, the split was to be just north of Buttevant at Velvetstown.

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Heres a general map -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v458/THE_Chris533976/m20a.jpg

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Its likely for this reason that the North section will get the go ahead long before the South section.

I see your point about needing the North ring road, looks like it would make a bigger mess of things than dumping the M6 into Galway.

antoobrien wrote: »

I ad to go digging into the thread but I found some maps that show the route proposed routes, the split was to be just north of Buttevant at Velvetstown.

I see your point about needing the North ring road, looks like it would make a bigger mess of things than dumping the M6 into Galway.

IIRC, the NRR is going to be bundled with M20 South, but only the M20 to M8 section. The N22 to M20 section mightn't happen for years.

mydiscworld

Are the routes fully decided?

With the remaining steps of Planning Permission, CPO, finance remaining?

antoobrien

mydiscworld wrote: »

Are the routes fully decided?

With the remaining steps of Planning Permission, CPO, finance remaining?

The EIS has been published and there was a request for planning permission submitted to ABP, but this was subsequently withdrawn. Not sure of the status of the CPOs.

Chris_5339762

Before the whole lot got canned, the Southern Section, bizarrely, was to be the first one to go. I think the reasoning being that at the time, the Adare bypass was still a bit undecided and would have been incorporated with the Northern.

The upshot was that you'd have M20 as far as north of Buttevant, then go for a lovely country drive down the Buttevant - Croom bit.

In retrospect I think a lot of Cork politicians might lobby for the NRR to go ahead, ahead of the M20.

The lack of a northern ring road is hampering development of the north side of Cork city significantly. I'd also imagine that the cost of NRR (M20 to M8) would be significantly cheaper than the M20.

zetalambda

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

In retrospect I think a lot of Cork politicians might lobby for the NRR to go ahead, ahead of the M20.

The lack of a northern ring road is hampering development of the north side of Cork city significantly. I'd also imagine that the cost of NRR (M20 to M8) would be significantly cheaper than the M20.

I've heard that been mentioned recently and it may be the case but two things that I think hamper development on the northside more are it's hilly terrain and the fact that it's just a giant council estate. However, it's inevitable that the NRR will be built in the next decade as it's the next best option for reducing traffic at the tunnel and on the south ring after the Dunkettle upgrade. I'd imagine that the benefits of the Dunkettle upgrade will start to fade pretty quick once the upgrade of the N28 Ringaskiddy road is complete and the port of Cork shift operations to the lower harbor.

sonnyblack

Id settle for the m20 north to be built first as long as the join with the existing was moved south of buttevant

zetalambda wrote: »

I've heard that been mentioned recently and it may be the case but two things that I think hamper development on the northside more are it's hilly terrain and the fact that it's just a giant council estate. However, it's inevitable that the NRR will be built in the next decade as it's the next best option for reducing traffic at the tunnel and on the south ring after the Dunkettle upgrade. I'd imagine that the benefits of the Dunkettle upgrade will start to fade pretty quick once the upgrade of the N28 Ringaskiddy road is complete and the port of Cork shift operations to the lower harbor.

Not sure about your last point. The upgraded Dunkettle Interchange will have a capacity many times what is there at present. Should be no issues after the N28 upgrade.

Sugarbomb

Heard on radio that the N20 is closed both ways 2 miles north of Charleville due to an accident that occurred at 12:30 today. Traffic being diverted.

Poxyshamrock

Not surprised. It's an awful road. I always find the 2:1 system south of Mallow absolutely lethal when the road is busy.

Cookiemunster

Gardai have confirmed a fatality. http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local-news/second-fatality-on-limerick-roads-in-24-hours-1-6195413#.U8-9YrzpedQ.twitter

I had some hope of movement on this project when I saw Varadkar was transferred to Health. Sadly he's been replaced by yet another Dublin based TD.