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Cork GAA Discussion Thread

SigersonCup

Just thought I'd make a thread on Cork GAA seeing as noone else has made one already. Feel free to talk about anything about Cork GAA, especially hurling and especially the Senior Hurling Championship.

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Animal Bar

JD1984 wrote: »

No win situation for Cuthbert here really. If he didn't make the changes people would be giving out and now that he has, people are still giving out.
Has Paddy Kelly played a good game this year? Granted he was played out of position a lot but he was utterly cat against Kerry?
Maguire has been exemplary for club, college and county for the last year or two and definitely deserves a chance. He did a grand job against MD McAuley when UCC played Maynooth so I'm sure he won't be scared of going up against Sligo or Mayo afterwards should they be there.
Colm O'Driscoll was exactly what Cork needed in the first half v Kerry to win the breaks that Cork were simply not competing for. Clancy is another player who must prove himself at centre-back, especially when there are an array of players who can play there.
They can't be worse than the last day and hopefully they wake up on Saturday after two lazy performances.

Utterly Cat against Kerry??? Sorry what game were you and the management watching? Cork got cleaned out in the half back line and in midfield. No one in the half back line kicked the ball against kerry how are the half forward line ment to have any impact on the game. Then you have 2 in midfield who ran the ball into trouble. The answer to this is take off 2 half forwards off at half time. Head scratching.

Then you think after 3 weeks to review the game and 2 of the 3 half back line start again. 7 Months into the year to make 6 changes screams panic

thinkstoomuch1

Its tough to call the Minor Cork Championship Seventh but its going to be fasinating and i think its a superb Competition,standard is rising every year.

The Rockies and the Glen were on opposite sides and were fancied to set up a repeat of last years final but its a suprise both are out.I would have said those too again but it hasnt turned out that way.

But Na Piarsaigh are bound to have a say on their side and with Dayne Lee,superb against Limerick he caused Ronan lynch problem a at times(Ronan wasnt 100 per cent as he had been troubled by a hand injury in the lead up to it,Eddie Gunning(im not sure but i think he playing junior also)and with Guest there bound to be dangerous and Killan Aherene may be also.Im not sure.

The mouth watering Round 3 game between Douglas and Glen was a huge shock in the huge win for Douglas.The Glen were favourites but Douglas with Mark Dolan for example have forwards.
The Glen have been unlucky with Injuries and Shane Milner was Out and the superb Glen Kennifick i think was injured again.I didnt see the game so i dont know the team.The Glen have fine talent coming up though for senior.

Kennfick for example got a goal in their senior championship win earlier.
He is lightening fast and was part of a 100m relay school team that beat a much fancies Dublin team in Tullamore in schools athletics this year.Barring injury would have likely been in Contention for The Cork minors.A good footballer too.
If he was out he was a huge loss to the Glen.

On the other side
Blackrock beats sars another suprise,I think Paul Lepold is back for Sars.So it is St Finbarrs v Sars in one semi and you would expect Douglas to beat Killeagh st itas and Na piarsaigh to beat Valley to set up Douglas and Na Piaraigh in the other Semi , which could be very close,i would say Douglas to win.But its a guess to be honest.

Sarsfields and St Finbarrs another close one id fancy Sars.There a fine team by all accounts.
I would not call any games with a huge degree of confidence .

It is a great minor championship.and some of the talent have played Senior for club,thats how Good they are .

About two weeks ago in Premier 2 Minor i saw Newtown beat Passage handily.A lot of good perferomers in the game
The best player imo was u16 Cork player the powerful Ronan Harrington ,five from play and he being so good at minor so young is a real talent from Passage worth watching. He is Powerful,savage engine,superb hurling he is a joy to watch hurling.He was brillant on a beaten team.Great Sign of a player.
Could be on the minors next year.He is young but Paddy Loughlin and Peter casey are flying with linerick.If it is the right enviroment it can work. Butty Mccarthy and Him in a midfield for Cork next year would be awesome.

In thurles a cracking Munster final between two great sides Waterford and Limerick ,ebbed and flowed by reports from what i Heard.Not much between them yet Cork minus two key lads away from home pushed and remained compeitve all the way against that Limerick team i truly belive will win all ireland minor but at the very least get to the All Ireland Final.Im a huge fan of them,i hope they win it.They leave no stone unturned.Such young men a credit to Limerick.

Kilkenny the only team that may beat them.They could blow Galway away.If Dublin ,unlikey beat waterford they wont come close to them either.

The one real limerick team that 100 per cent imo fully deserve the hype and expectation have a real live chance of an all ireland ,the only team in the next few years to have in Limerick imo.

Cork were simply beaten by a better team a few weeks ago and went down with pride,honour and diginity and skill and everyone involved deserves huge credit.And Limerick winning underlines that.Bar Galway and Hawk eye there now around 7 matches unbeaten.

It shows how Good our minor team was this year and also shows what a superb coach Jerry wallis is a real driving force with that team.with Cregan and Mckenna etc.They won 2 Munsters in a row.Jerry wallis is a huge loss to Cork Hurling.Waterford were 3 up at 3 h time yet Limerick made key changes by all accounts to win it.He is likely to stay with limerick for 2 more years ,but Cork should do whatever it takes to get him involved in Cork as hes a huge loss to Cork Hurling.Imo offer him a whatevers he wants.That Limerick win imo was a huge signifance to Cork and will give Cork real hope.

Smith614

What are the CCB doing when it comes to grading??? Carbery (division) comprising on a lot of good hurling clubs are competing in the Premier 2 minor hurling championship. This is some disgrace, a division should be competing at premier 1 or not at all. They beat a fancied St. Colmans team last week which is apity as Cloyne etc are making good strides but then come up against a division.

ShamoBuc

That Cork team screams of panic. So many things wrong with it. Not sure about Kelly being dropped. Played most of the league games at centre back I think- and did well, back to the forwards for the championship debacle and now shown the line. It will be interesting how he changes things this time. Am expecting a close game and the decisions on the line could cost us again- and I don't rate Sligo at all If we scrape past them I would expect a record defeat against mayo - hard to see anything else. I rate mayo. But that might never happen as Sligo could beat us. Even typing that shows me how in disarray Cork are. A few years ago Sligo had a very handy team and would certainly have beaten this cork team. Interesting times ahead.

Amprodude

Seriously Sligo will do us a favour if they beat us. If we beat Sligo and Mayo, Kerry will whip us apart like they do time and time again and we dont want that in Cork again. We will never beat Kerry in Croke Park and we must accept it. We have fools of management and players with no heart and attiti

Amprodude

Gary Neville

Amprodude wrote: »

Seriously Sligo will do us a favour if they beat us. If we beat Sligo and Mayo, Kerry will whip us apart like they do time and time again and we dont want that in Cork again. We will never beat Kerry in Croke Park and we must accept it. We have fools of management and players with no heart and attitude all wrong. We couldnt get it right even in the good days. Cork football makes me sick.

Very disappointing to see a Corkman make a post like that. Since the game has evolved into a tactical arm wrestle, we've been found wanting on the sideline. Counihan for all his virtues was poor tactically. In spite of that, his teams always gave it 100% because they believed in him. Look at the fight backs against Kerry on the the last 2 visits to Killarney, look at how a well beaten side were so close to Donegal in 2012 and even last year, we were out-classed by the Dubs but kept going.

Cuthbert looks to be ever worse than Counihan, tactically and it's obvious that he's lost the dressingroom. Players like Gould, Goulding and Kelly know full well that they have been made the scape goats for the mistakes of management.

We've got some very good footballers but are facing at least another season with this power point bluffer at the helm.

We'll beat Kerry in CP but only when we get a management team as tactically astute as Kerry's.

Deco99

Amprodude wrote: »

Seriously Sligo will do us a favour if they beat us. If we beat Sligo and Mayo, Kerry will whip us apart like they do time and time again and we dont want that in Cork again. We will never beat Kerry in Croke Park and we must accept it. We have some fools of "supporters" and "fans" with no heart and attitude all wrong. We couldnt get it right even in the good days. Cork football makes me sick.

<SNIP>

thinkstoomuch1

Id agree Animal ,that team is imo being picked in Desparation mode and i wouldnt say its brave team,i'd say its a naive foolish team to be honest in its not a ist round qualifer we can build momentum.It is Mayo up next.

A novice runner with little Running expierence would not dream of enterting a Marathon if he no real miles in hes legs. If he did it be utterlty foolish and would over Cloud hes bravery.Once he hit the "Wall"hes race was run no matter how brave he was.

If he undertook a 4 month training plan etc he would be brave to Run a Marathon but he would be smart and give himself every chance of Finishing it.

There is a difference in Bravery and Foolish actions.Maguire is a superb talent,however doing it against Mccauly in a smaller Ul North Campus ptich as good as he was is worlds apart from taking on O Shea and Gibbons in Croker where he has little game expierence or Real Milage with Walsh as a partner and Donie Buckley and Horan are two shrewd managers and will target him.He could do well against sligo but midfield is at right at the coalface.But Mayo is a huge ask.

Sean Dineen with farming gave a commitment to the set up.You got to ask is he wasting hes time in he flying in training yet he has no game time at all.He has big time expierence of County Finals and playing Crokes in kerry and was Cork Club team of the year.Hes 24 and has a maturity that through no fault of hes own Maguire may not have yet.Dinneen has been involved in a Club team always been at the business end of the Championship the last few years

As good as Curran of Galway was for example in earlier games for Galway and he is just out of u21 he struggled against o Shea in the Connaught final so its a steep jump up.

I agree the half back line is chopped and changed again and its no understanding as a unit.
Loughrey strongest part of hes game is attacking and should be half back yet Cork put him on the back foot for this game and play to he's weakness not he's strength. He Could survive against an average Sligo Corner forward but would be roasted by a top corner Forward.

Colm O Driscoll is being lauded for hes perferomance in Killarney.Again thats not a litmus test.He is fine under breaking ball,hard and tough,etc but Kelly is every bit what he is but has a craft,vision and passing Colm hasnt.

O Rourke is a fine player played out of position twice at half back by this management suffers from their mistakes.
Hodnett is a fine player,creative and holds it up well and if Donnacha is injured id have him in that deep half forward role in a blanket.The team Saturday lacks balance though imo.

Cuthbhert has no real balance or line of direction in hes team selections now.From being loyal to Gould,Andrew,etc he now has realised they after around 9 games in are not what is needed yet he jumps to panic and throws in a Rookie

Michael Laoire has a partnership with walsh from u21 and was outstanding Cork Juniors last year and is flying in Club.He had a league of training behind him so while Cuthbhert treated him poorly with no games he knows Corks drills etc.He would be ideal as a sub but i would have given him time v sligo in a half of football at least.

What happens if Maguire has an average game.Go back to Gould or throw Dinneen in for a debut.What is Gould going to do in he hasnt done it in 7 years.It sounds harsh but there is no point in saying otherwise .This is panic mode imo where real thought instead should be applied to the team selection with Mayo on the Horizon.

Brian O Driscoll a super talent is a great man to attack but he has no understanding with hes unit.
I agree shields is slow and laboured with the ball in hand.He should be Corner back.

If Hodnett and ,O Driscolls or Maguire have poor games I wont judge them as there be thrown in to a team with no Confidence,no direction,little leadership and that imo has to come from management down.Sligos lack of forwards,and a real belief ,means were lucky to have them and what is likely to be a struggle ,We should win.

Sean posted here that Alan O Connor was asked to rejoin the panel but declined.If thats true it further underlines the Complete Panic in the set up and while Alan was a suberb player for Cork and servant was anything at all learned from Last Year.He was fine in the second half when Kerry were out on their feet yet Dublin exposed he's lack of space time and again in Croker and it was sad to watch a great player being made look poor.
Bringing back him is not building for the future.

This talk that Cork can not be any worse again I don't buy at all for a minute.Yes Sligo with respect are a poor team,at best good ,they wont hammer Cork if they did manage to win.However A Cork team struggling past them in a close win is just as bad as a hammering to kerry.

Some in Cork have this myth ah sure twas a one off,things can only get better.They said the same during the league with certain players not performing time and time again,the shambles to Dublin,then Tipp,and now Kerry.We had 3 awful,truly awful games in a row.
If that happened in New Zealand Rubgy ,they would be an outcry as their Motto is if its "happens once it is an Accident,more than once it is a Trend.Its happened three times in a row now,so i dont believe in Management must be given time ,and there picking what they feel is the best team as clearly by their record they dont have any idea what it is.Now some may say dont judge Cork til the season is over.

There the same that said in October ,its early yet when a naive management set up was picked,during the league it was a case of their picking the best they have ,and now its a case of, it can not get any worse in the sense it can only get better.That may not happen imo.

There was a win win situation that would have endeared Cuthbhert to the fans.First and foremost give an interview and be honest and be frank in that he made mistakes and apologise for Picking an inexpierenced management team from Day One.To have any hope to rectify this situation ,Cork must have Honesty to accept huge problems exist.Then devise a plan to solve it

Then recall Michael Laoire.Say that Dualism has failed in football and whatever happens its ending for Next year.Now is the time to Stand up and be Counted.Show Real Leadership in Adversity.

Then pick a team with
Mayo in Mind.You do that by not tyring to rewrite the basics fundamentals Of Modern Day Football in Converting wing backs as corner backs.The majority bar the exception to the Rule fail.

You start one of the Best Midfielders in Cork in Dinneen,and have another one in laoire as a sub.You hold Maguire.
You Pick a balanced half back line.
You play Paddy Kelly.
And you Play a blanket defence v Mayo.You do it against Sligo first.
It may be rough around the edges in that game but at least the end product may jusify the means something the current syle clearly is not doing.

You tell fans youre doing it but will review it after the season.Its the only way for Mayo.You say that youre reviewing the selectors and adding expierence next year.
You dont tell the selectors who is being cut as it means everyone of them is on edge and they bring a real intensity and focus in the next two weeks to save themselves.Get everyone out of there Comfort Zones.It is time to Sink or swim.
Mayo might know were playing a blanket but everyone knows Donegal play it but its very hard to break down.

You call a meeting with players and you ask for truth and Honesty.You may not like what you hear but you dust yourself down and drive forward learning lessons from past mistakes .That would show imo leadership,courage,Conviction and a sense of Real Direction.That would give me real belief rather than the current scenario where it is devoid of any real hope.

JD1984

Animal Bar wrote: »

Utterly Cat against Kerry??? Sorry what game were you and the management watching? Cork got cleaned out in the half back line and in midfield. No one in the half back line kicked the ball against kerry how are the half forward line ment to have any impact on the game. Then you have 2 in midfield who ran the ball into trouble. The answer to this is take off 2 half forwards off at half time. Head scratching.

Then you think after 3 weeks to review the game and 2 of the 3 half back line start again. 7 Months into the year to make 6 changes screams panic

The game where he got whipped at half time because he was so poor, and yourself? Yes the backs were having a hard time but that doesn't make it acceptable to score 5 points from open play (2 from midfield).
Saturdays team has 4 out and out scorers and 2 talented ball-winners in Collins and O'Driscoll. Personally, I'll be shocked if it's anything less than a 7 or 8 point win and I'd fancy this exact team, maybe with Jamie O' Sullivan in for Loughrey, to beat Mayo as well.

Also, thinkstoomuch1, also heard Alan O Connor was contacted. Michael O Laoire was top class for Naomh Aban at the weekend but a weeks notice would really spell out panic stations!

Amprodude

Deco99 wrote: »

FYP, its brave coming on here making a post like that when you've most likely never kicked a ball beyond the warm up.

Well im no expert i will admit, i only played junior football myself but seeing Cork with alot of potiental not delivering is heartbreaking. This year we have no business there.

Deco99

Amprodude wrote: »

<SNIP>.

FYP again

Mod: Don't do that again Deco99

Gary Neville

Cuthbert condemned the players after the Tipp game - accusing them of reverting to type in the heat of battle - He toned it down a little in his Newstalk interview after the Kerry Game, suggesting that management has a plan in place to deal with the massed defence but that we can't seem to implement it on the day (again pointing at the players)

McCarthy was highly critical of the players suggesting that only a handful of the starting 15 reached a decent level of performance.

They've followed up by dropping 6 of the starters in the Munster Final.

We've tried 2 different kick-out strategies - target runners in the Tipp game and hoof it long up the middle v Kerry. Both failed badly. We left our FB line exposed for the 2nd c/ship meeting in a row v Kerry, with the same results - incredibly Cuthbert admitted he was aware of this but elected to take no corrective action until HT.
Dublin ran at us and posted a cricket score and we put 2 defenders in the HB line v Tipp - obviously Tipp weren't going to refuse such a generous invitation. Peter Creedon couldn't believe his luck and would have won but for a Hail Mary intervention from A Walsh.

We've been treated to Musical Chairs in the Willy Wonka Chocolate Factory and what's coming down the track in the form of Mayo will not make for pleasant viewing unless you're from Mayo or Kerry.

Cubby's power point vision of where he was going to take Cork Football should carry an X rating.

thinkstoomuch1

This is not Fantasy football its a real game.
What i mean is you need a system that works and a belief and total trust in management also.Cuthbherts mindset of Picking old great servants and then Rookies without the Right enviroment imo i get the sense he gets outs hes powerpoint presenation,picks a 15 and says that looks fine with out understanding the basics.

Mark Collins was superb against Tipp unfairly dropped for the Kerry game.Yet nows he back.We cant guarantee hes confidence is high.

What is the basis we will beat Mayo.Talent isnt a problem its managemement.We have a naive inexpierenced managenment worlds apart from Mayo.We have no belief in them that they can pick the best 24 for match day,then devise a plausible game plan and then read a game in flow and react when necessary but also in the right way.

Look at Mayo.
Donie Buckley ,one of the best coaches around.A proven all ireland winner.
James Horan a top manager thats got Mayo to two finals and gets every ounce out of them despite they lacking quality forwards.
Ed Coughlan ,hughely respected and Worked with professional soccer players.

Cuthbhert a poor Club record and Davis,Ciaran sullivan and Sexton no management expierence at all.

This is not old Mayo teams that were beaten at the ist sight of a red jersey.This is a tough Mayo team that will relish Cork.
Kerry could push them as kerry have forwards and have a system.

Laoire wouldnt spell panic in that he was on the current panel .If Cuthbhert recalled him what it would tell is Cuthbhert made a joke of him earlier.He needs to drop hes Ego though,and do what Cork needs now.

Cork football is not what is right for Brian Cuthbhert it is what is right for Cork football going forward.
Panic is when you throw at Rookie in at the Coal face of Modern day Football not when you make logical decisions based on Reality.I have never seen such doom and gloom regards Cork Football in such a long time so early in to a new managers reign.Cuthbhert says he Believes in Himself.Thats Great, but more importantly does anyone else bar the Board.

slingerz

O'Laoire is not better than any of the current options IMO. From when I've seen him with Naomh Aban or Muskerry this year he hasn't set the world alight at all.

sean mac

We're in big trouble, big big trouble. The attempts by management to deflect attention away from their naivete in the Kerry game by blaming the players fully has caused real annoyance to say the least. This selection which includes corks weakest players - ohallorhan and loughrey is mind boggling. How is loughrey a player who cannot defend selected at corner back where he will have to defend?
Maguire and brian o driscoll are super young players with huge prospects, but to be dropped into this set up will do them no good.
Don't know how Sligo are at the moment but if they have any wit and bite they will get a result here and cork football will be left on its arse with a fella in charge who is out of his depth. Has anyone ever seen a top team in the middle of championship with this much disarray?

thinkstoomuch1

Sean Mac id agree with most of that.A lot of truths there.
At the training camp i saw there was no video anayalst with Cork.Whether they use one or not it remains to be seen but you would like to think a Key camp on the eve of championship just after the Dublin beating we could have had one.

Cork u21 had one under Cleary and it was a huge success.Sean what are views re Michael laoire?how would you rate him.

sean mac

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Sean Mac id agree with most of that.A lot of truths there.
At the training camp i saw there was no video anayalst with Cork.Whether they use one or not it remains to be seen but you would like to think a Key camp on the eve of championship just after the Dublin beating we could have had one.

Cork u21 had one under Cleary and it was a huge success.Sean what are views re Michael laoire?how would you rate him.

TTM, I rated him worth getting a game at least!!! I remember the derry game in the league when were getting cleaned out in midfield in the 2nd half and olaoire wasn't brought on except as a blood sub and I realised then he wasn't being rated. He was never in their plans but he is certainly worth a bet in the same way gould and walsh are persevered with.
Maguire is a fine talent but he wont develop under this set up, dineen should have stated this game to horse into Sligo and make them realise there is a battle.
Cuthbert et al have proven at this stage they are out of their depth, we are 3 games into the championship and into our 3rd midfield combination and 3rd half back line, Christ you couldn't make it up.
I said fromt he start cleary should have got this, he istn the greatest tactician but what he is, is SMART. Uses a goalkeeping coach (look at martins kickouts this year for u21s), good fitness man, good use of stats/video and by god he can motivate a team - hugely important will cover a lot of deficiencies elsewhere when fellas are willing to die on the field, can we say any of that with the current set up? NO.
Nice men, great servants in their time, but totally out of their depth at this level.
If Sligo have an inside line running riot again on Saturday will we wait until half time to make a decision again?????? no faith in the set up, some players are selected because they are strong on bleep tests and we have a keeper from the same club as the manager who is the pooret kicker in intercounty football for a keeper.

rughug

Smith614 wrote: »

What are the CCB doing when it comes to grading??? Carbery (division) comprising on a lot of good hurling clubs are competing in the Premier 2 minor hurling championship. This is some disgrace, a division should be competing at premier 1 or not at all. They beat a fancied St. Colmans team last week which is apity as Cloyne etc are making good strides but then come up against a division.

Smith 614 my friend , you are talking through your drain pipe. Newcestown and Clonakilty are already competing in Prem 2. Bandon have a shockingly poor minor team this year. Now tell me where are the other good hurling clubs in West Cork.. You dont know what you are talking
about. Just sour grapes id say that your boys from Cloyne are gone.

Gary Neville

sean mac wrote: »

TTM, I rated him worth getting a game at least!!! I remember the derry game in the league when were getting cleaned out in midfield in the 2nd half and olaoire wasn't brought on except as a blood sub and I realised then he wasn't being rated. He was never in their plans but he is certainly worth a bet in the same way gould and walsh are persevered with.
Maguire is a fine talent but he wont develop under this set up, dineen should have stated this game to horse into Sligo and make them realise there is a battle.
Cuthbert et al have proven at this stage they are out of their depth, we are 3 games into the championship and into our 3rd midfield combination and 3rd half back line, Christ you couldn't make it up.
I said fromt he start cleary should have got this, he istn the greatest tactician but what he is, is SMART. Uses a goalkeeping coach (look at martins kickouts this year for u21s), good fitness man, good use of stats/video and by god he can motivate a team - hugely important will cover a lot of deficiencies elsewhere when fellas are willing to die on the field, can we say any of that with the current set up? NO.
Nice men, great servants in their time, but totally out of their depth at this level.
If Sligo have an inside line running riot again on Saturday will we wait until half time to make a decision again?????? no faith in the set up, some players are selected because they are strong on bleep tests and we have a keeper from the same club as the manager who is the pooret kicker in intercounty football for a keeper.

I spoke to O Laoire's father at one of the league games and he was promised that he'd get a game before the end of the league. He didn't. If you bring a lad into a squad and promise him at least a game, then you should deliver. How could he impress when he never got a a chance ?

I was of the view that we had a slim chance of salvaging this terrible situation after the Kerry game provided management called an immediate clear the air meeting and allowed everyone to voice an opinion as to what was wrong. It needed Cubby and Ronan Mac to show that they were big men and admit that they got a lot of things wrong but that they were prepared to learn (TTM1 - offered a similar opinon)

I was very disappointed to learn that the Kerry game was barely mentioned.

Cubby and Ronan Mac are coming across as Teachers dealing with group of students - my way or the highway and not entertaining the possibility of their mistakes.

Could anyone imagine Billy Morgan or Conor Counihan telling John Fogarty that very few of the starting 15 played to a decent level - Billy might have some tough words in the dressing room but it would stay there.

If Cubby and his management team set out to demoralise the squad, I don't think they could have done a better job.

Imagine how Dan Goulding feels - he top scored with 0-6 (plus 1 pt waved wide) and got some pressure long range kicks yet Ken O Halloran who had a nightmare for the 2nd day in a row, is retained.

This a hard thing to be personally abused by ignorant people but then have your management tell the media that you didn't play to a decent level and then get dropped thereby singleing you out as one of the reasons for our worst hammering by Kerry since 1962 - all that to a player who stepped up to the plate when needed in 2010 and was a major factor in a rare Sam win - now he's been told he's no good by fellas that never won anything at the highest level.

rughug

Smith614 wrote: »

What are the CCB doing when it comes to grading??? Carbery (division) comprising on a lot of good hurling clubs are competing in the Premier 2 minor hurling championship. This is some disgrace, a division should be competing at premier 1 or not at all. They beat a fancied St. Colmans team last week which is apity as Cloyne etc are making good strides but then come up against a division.

Smith614

rughug wrote: »

Smith 614 my friend , you are talking through your drain pipe. Newcestown and Clonakilty are already competing in Prem 2. Bandon have a shockingly poor minor team this year. Now tell me where are the other good hurling clubs in West Cork.. You dont know what you are talking
about. Just sour grapes id say that your boys from Cloyne are gone.

Bandon, argideen, kilbrittan will I keep going. All it takes is a few players from each club. Bandon might have poor minor team but still have a few good players. It's a real joke to have a division in prem2. Not much to be proud of for Carbery even if they win the competition. At least Duhallow are competing in Prem 1 in all comps.

Archer3083

I think people are being very harsh on Cuthbert in relation to his team selection. For instance with regards to Ian Maguire getting his championship debut at senior level. The simple fact of the matter is that Fintan Gould has never been anything but a disappointment in Cork jersey with one possible exception being his performance against Down in a qualifier back in 2011. Quite frankly anybody would be better than Gould! Also, are people forgetting that Aidan Walsh only got a proper starting place on the Cork senior football team back in 2010? I remember Walsh making a big contribution against Kerry in the Munster semi-final that year, and he was missing due to injury for the replay which Cork lost in PUC made famous by Galvin fish hooking Cadogan. Walsh went on to have an exceptional final against Down that year, and he was still only 20 years old! So, I don't think there's any reason not to give Maguire a chance. He seems a really promising player, and if you're good enough, you're old enough!

I don't think any of the other players that have been dropped are any big loss to the team except for Daniel Goulding. If Goulding has a flaw it's that he can lack hunger and enthusiasm. I remember him in the game against Galway last year in Croke park. Cork were behind by 4 points and he just sauntered over the side-line, got a drink of water and had a great chin wag with the maor uisce. It just sent out the wrong message that basically, he didn't care. I'm sure he does, but sometimes his demeanor can come across badly.

I know it probably seems harsh to say that Kelly is no big loss, but for one reason or another since 2010 I can't think of a good game that Kelly has had. He's been plagued by injuries since then. He's had hip operations more than once, I'm fairly sure the same hip had to be operated on at one stage. I don't think he's had any real chance to pick up any momentum or form with the past couple of years. So, he was a great talent, but when was the last time Paddy Kelly had a good game in a Cork shirt?

As for Barry O'Driscoll, Damien Cahalane and John O'Rourke. I think Barry O'Driscoll has had plenty of time under Counihan and Cuthbert to show his worth, he just hasn't done it. And Cahalane and O'Rourke may welll develop over the next couple of years as they are still young, but they just haven't done enough so far. Cahalane was badly treated under Counihan last year in the Munster final with Kerry in Fitzgerald stadium, that would have been no help to his confidence.

To be fair to Cuthbert, Colm O'Neill, Dónal Óg Hodnett, and Ian Maguire are better players than the guys they are replacing! But Goulding should have started instead of O'Driscoll.

I'm not going to comment on what Cuthbert has done in defense. I wouldn't agree with any of it, and I'd pretty much agree with the views of everyone else on here. Cork's defense has been week for a few years now. At least under Counihan, the big criticism that could be levelled at the defense was a serious lack of pace in the end with the likes of O'Leary and Canty. But at least those guys could defend in their prime.

thinkstoomuch1

I would agree Sean with that.Whether Laoire has it for this level remains to be seen but he never like Deane when Fit and Now Dinnen never got a fair chance where Cuthbhert has a blinded,total unwarranted loyalty to certain lads that is truly appaling and the midfield shambles is refelection of Managements mistakes in every game since even Mcgrath Cup where Clear and Ever Present Warning Signs were Constantly ignored time and time again.Like you said you could not make it up.

A junior football coach even realises Midfield is key as you gave your forwards posseion and deprive opponents dominace in possesion and hence your defence is not under wave after wave of on incessant pressure.Paul Mccarthy built Corks Junior All ireland on a midfield dominace of Laoire and Deane.Imo Laoire is like a a good bloodhound that has a scent for he's prey ,in that in Hail,Rain or Snow Laoire has a natural scent and awareness for the breaking ball and has a superb engine like Daniel Kearney in Hurling,they cover a lot of Ground.And by god is he tough from the inside out.

Like any player from that Great aera of Naomh Aban he has heart,grit,bravery and Inner Resolve.There a fine breed of warrior down that part of the woods player wise,they were never born with a Silver spoon in their mouth and anything they get they well and truly earned to be fair to them.
Look at Anthony Lynch,Michael Cronin.Lynch was tough as nails .

Down in Kilmartya, ,Aghinagh where you have the Noel O Learys;Breige Corkerys etc those players have similar attruibutes tough as nails .
There not just nice Footballers theres a gutsy hardness that is so admirable in their DNA its hard to quantify in Words the value of it.

Tompkins like Cuthbhert didnt rate Cronin like laoire as he was unfairly dropped of the panel after the 99 All ireland final and madr scapegoat for 4 years and imo it ruined him.I hope Laoire doesnt suffer the same fate.

And Crucially when Laoire gets Primary possesion he protects it and Rarely wastes such a Golden Treasue and Commodity in the Modern game, Possession.Possesion is well and Truly the name of the Game now.

Gary its just a mystery ,its a bit like "Growing up who Shot JR in Dallas" in we may have to wait for ever to find out what reason Cuthbhert does not rate Laoire that he went against hes own Bible of Thought that every lad would get a chance when he didnt and he had ample opporunity to do so.
They are valid points Archer regards Maguire but the problem is not him starting its "Sheer Timing of it and there has been no club games since the Kerry Game for Maguire so how has he gone from 5th to 1st choice is alarming.Its pure panic and desparation mode.What can we do next.I said it in May the place to debuitse Maguire was in The Pairc against Tipp.

Management said after games we had a plan and it was like players did not stick to it.It must have been well and truly some mastermind of a plan if they think they can win a modern day game of football against a top 8 team in championship without a stabile and effective and coherent midfield partnership where the dynamic of the pairing has a balance to it that all hes teams have not had or lets be brutally honest have not even come close to it.

Cuthbhert gave an interview last night on "The game on 2fm"and it was a mixed bag imo.He certainly had mellowed in hes views on the game which was good to see as its now a collective responsibity between management and players for the loss.However to me its not,in that 6 lads are dropped yet the management should never picked a few of them in the ist place.

Management should accept a lot of the responsibity for the fiasco.The lack of heart,desire and hunger comes from them .Cork in year one in JBM through no fault of hes own had a totally ineffective half forward line in against waterford and Galway in two games in a row and every one of the unit i think was subbed.Yet without dominace they never wilted or gave up as the the work ethic of the ball was there as there was a bellief in JBM.I see no evidence it exists in this set up when things go bad they go horrobily wrong.This is not just one game it is the last 3.

Also i get the feeling there is going to be starting places for those dropped regards Mayo as my take is He has lost to ability to truly motivate them,thinks dropping some for one game will shake it up when hes wrong.He speaks of "Players must let their Egos go if their dropped and move on.You couldnt script in imo.

The Biggest Ego of them all imo is he's purely and soley as a manager.He cant realise that most mistakes are directly at hes door
The part of the interview that convinced me he is just talking the talk was When he Said the Key is everbody makes mistakes once you dont repeat them.

Its a true statement and i have no poblem with him learning and making mistakes but whats he says is hugely ironic imo.

Why in the name of God do you Again again pick a Half back in the Corner and Blatantly ignore better midfield options at this time and have done so not once,not twice but practically every single game if you learn from mistakes.

The Huge huge worry is hes Terming Sligo is our "All Ireland Final" yet he throws in 3 rookies.
This is not 1966 in hurling when the 6 debutants had real momentum.

This imo is schoolboy management at best.He says one thing then but like a potiican it is not a staight answer.
"We were probaly fooled a bit by the league etc but then in another way we wernt as we expected blankets defences.It is either "Black or white if you ask me.

Great managers,the truly Great Managers always expect the unexpected.The sheer innonence and Naviety of this set up at Senior Intercounty Elite level is a huge worry.He had a Glourious chance to do what i always said he failed to do make a "Statement of Intent when asked regards Dualism.He should have said it there and then.it won't happen next and if lads want to play hurling im sad to let them go but it is what it is.

The usual answer we will review ,well discuss it etc,along previous similar lines.Aidan Walsh said last week he is doing it for 3 more years.
Others and Jbm will want it.
Does anyone really belief on what we have seen that cuthbhert will stand up to the issue now no he wont.He Could have set the tempo.last night.When he says "he will review it imo it means same old story.No conviction in hes answer imo.

I wanted Cleary for the job since day one also.I'm not a Castlehaven man,I just want the best man to lead Cork football.He is managing a Ladies underage team at Cork level while we have a man in charge of the seniors with the greatest respect to him but purely as a manager imo is comptely out of he's depth at this level.

Cleary if he was appointed Cork Senior Football Manager would have had Ned English with him and you would have had a lovely balance in that set up.Cleary knows from first hand expierence how diffcult it is to break down any Team Coached By English.

Who knows who else would have been involved, however I wouldnt be suprised if the superb ,innovative James Mccarthy had a role in that set up.

Clearys team are as you said always well organised ,have huge believe and as History showed have no fear or baggage of the Green and Gold and many times went to Kerry and won there.They won Close games and hammered Kerry also.

The Kerry u21s teams often dominated by Cork teams the last ten years have produced many senior players like us.The problem is our lads development at a crucial absoultey crucial stage of their careers remain static and is suffocated by Poor Senior Managers while Kerry progress on an constant upward curve due to shrewd,innovative,Expierenced Management that understand the game inside out and upside down like the superb Jack O Connor and the Superb and tactically asute Eammon Fitzmaurice.

Our Golden talented is wasted time and time again,it is really so so "Sad" yet Kerrys currently limited rescources is nourised and blossomed.

BPKS

Gary Neville wrote: »

I spoke to O Laoire's father at one of the league games and he was promised that he'd get a game before the end of the league. He didn't. If you bring a lad into a squad and promise him at least a game, then you should deliver. How could he impress when he never got a a chance ?

I was of the view that we had a slim chance of salvaging this terrible situation after the Kerry game provided management called an immediate clear the air meeting and allowed everyone to voice an opinion as to what was wrong. It needed Cubby and Ronan Mac to show that they were big men and admit that they got a lot of things wrong but that they were prepared to learn (TTM1 - offered a similar opinon)

I was very disappointed to learn that the Kerry game was barely mentioned.

Cubby and Ronan Mac are coming across as Teachers dealing with group of students - my way or the highway and not entertaining the possibility of their mistakes.

Could anyone imagine Billy Morgan or Conor Counihan telling John Fogarty that very few of the starting 15 played to a decent level - Billy might have some tough words in the dressing room but it would stay there.

If Cubby and his management team set out to demoralise the squad, I don't think they could have done a better job.

Imagine how Dan Goulding feels - he top scored with 0-6 (plus 1 pt waved wide) and got some pressure long range kicks yet Ken O Halloran who had a nightmare for the 2nd day in a row, is retained.

This a hard thing to be personally abused by ignorant people but then have your management tell the media that you didn't play to a decent level and then get dropped thereby singleing you out as one of the reasons for our worst hammering by Kerry since 1962 - all that to a player who stepped up to the plate when needed in 2010 and was a major factor in a rare Sam win - now he's been told he's no good by fellas that never won anything at the highest level.

Ye obviously have erased Kerry 3-19 Cork 2-7 (2002 Semi Final) and Kerry 1-19 Cork 0-9 (2005 Semi Final) from ye're memory?

I can see why the management are getting flak, but I couldn't fault what McCarthy said in the press the other day too much - the message I got was that no Cork player played to their potential and the management made some mistakes against Kerry. Get most of the starting 15 plus 2 or 3 subs playing to their potential and they would fancy their chances against any side was the message I got from it. Obviously getting them to do that is another issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cork, after beating Sligo, took Mayo out. And it would be 50/50 against Kerry in the semi final then. I sure as hell wouldn't like to meet Cork in a semi final anyway.

D'Agger

BPKS wrote: »

Ye obviously have erased Kerry 3-19 Cork 2-7 (2002 Semi Final) and Kerry 1-19 Cork 0-9 (2005 Semi Final) from ye're memory?

I can see why the management are getting flak, but I couldn't fault what McCarthy said in the press the other day too much - the message I got was that no Cork player played to their potential and the management made some mistakes against Kerry. Get most of the starting 15 plus 2 or 3 subs playing to their potential and they would fancy their chances against any side was the message I got from it. Obviously getting them to do that is another issue.

I wouldn't be surprised if Cork, after beating Sligo, took Mayo out. And it would be 50/50 against Kerry in the semi final then. I sure as hell wouldn't like to meet Cork in a semi final anyway.

In Munster perhaps?

I'd be suprised if Cork beat Mayo - based on what we've seen so far this year, they're stronger in almost every department

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/07/24/kick-woes-serious-concern/

A good read as always by Barry O Donovan
I wouldnt agree with all but pretty much most of it .
He writes some top class stuff in fairness one of the few do so imo.

thinkstoomuch1

I see Mick Slocum a fine half back,great player tough as nails,a real hero of mine criticies fans for Critising Cuthbhert.Its unbelievable the way no one is meant to fully question a managers skillset now.

If that happens and they want this siege mentaity no matter how bad things get"Do not dare Criticise then a lot of hardcore grass roots fans wouldnt be long getting disheartened and walking away from the team all together imo

There fast enough to say Cork Football needs more support.We want support but dont say a negative thing as you must go with the flow.

No player or manager deserves personal abuse like personal twitter messages or letters etc .But when fans and their is a core of dedicated geuine fans that travel the length and breadth of the Country in league and Champ and pay for petrol,food,tickets that make huge sacrifes in their every day life,that want the best for Cork football have every right but to critisce purely on the field of play.Take that away from fans and when there are many reasons to be dissilluonsed with Cork Football and the Relatively small support they get wont long be getting smaller.

The impression i get is like usual in Cork,they dont like what it is being said,when its just in most geuine fans realistic views,so a case of shut up shop.Many times have the board etc pleaded for support for the footballers.Now it seems some want to Control the fans in as bad as things get,just say nothing but still we want ye to travel night and day to support us,buy tickets for Club Draws and the Tickets for the New Pairc.

There is a certain type of fan, always has been prawn sandwich brigade like in any sport that just follow a team in glory and cant wait to criticse when the need arises and i dont like that.But the Real geuine fans that state their concerns before games and follow the team through thick and thin have every right just like Kilkenny,Kerry,etc would in where its applicable Cork critising Managers etc on the field of play and critisim in that regard is not personal against the manager with the majioity of fans its because they love Cork Football too much and expect,demand more of Cork and in Corks case feel there is better managers and selectors,proven.men then what we have now.

I dont think any geuine fan of any county likes to be negative regards he"s team.But saying all is fine,keeping quiet when things are bad and not saying what needs to be said means we accept mediocrity and second best.You wouldnt get that mentaitly in New Zealand ,Brazil ,Kerry or Kilkenny or Man united why should Cork be any different.Roy keane was seen the Enemy Within in Irish Soccer but a lot of what he said caused the Genisis report and Irish Soccer became better for it.He said what needed to be said for the Greater Good.

Eaten bread is often soon forgotten.The majiority of fans that fault cuthbhert and players are likey to have been out on the protest Matches on Pissing wet days supporting Cork GAA in its darkest days and on days where the Homecomings of All ireland finals we lost ,where its the atmosphere is like a funeral and in 2007 the turnout in particular was wrongfully very low,have been with and will even though confidence is at an all time low still support the footballers in tullamore than watch it on sky ,so for ex greats to say fans cant criticse is a bit much in fairness.
Take that away and Cork football small support is even smaller.

Just because some fans and incorrectly get personal it shouldnt detract from the Geuine fans.I have great time for Davy Fitz but i was not a fan the way he tried to Control the Media in just cause he did not agree with what was said he banned him.A reporter has a right to report and at least that lad showed he had bravery to write hard articles not like some that are lazy journalists with the greatest respect to them go with a Happy go Lucky attuide ,the Sun always shines even in turmoil as speaking the harsh truth makes them unpopular and the enemy when in fact most of the time their just being 100 per cent honest in their views.

You See the Likes of Man utd when the fans had lost Support in Moyles he was sacked.There is yes the other extreme that we do not want in like the premshership a lad sacked after a few games.
However Cuthbherts scenario is similar to Moyles.Cork are like Man Utd a big franchise and should be always at least competiting at the buisness end each year.Moyles never had the Profile for such a big job ,and Cuthbhert is the same.

Its not harsh and perfectly right for fans to criticse on the last 3 games ,our worst start to a championship in years,a tough pill to swallow when we have talented that dominated u21 ,and not one of the Management has a proven record in Top level management.
Look at the our results in the league.As many have acknowelged since they flattered to decieve.Is that harsh????

What is the other alternative fans say.It was
a Great league,ah it was one of those days against Dublin,we did not get the bounce of the ball,it happens,we learn from it ,all isnt lost.

What do we say after the Tipp game if fans dare not criticse.We were unlucky again,the Gods are against us,we learned so much from The Dublin game just not enough but we are getting there.

The Kerry game.We learned lot from our two games,not quite as much as we though but bounce of the ball didnt go our way.This is kerry we have no given right to be expecting us to compete,Management are doing a fine job,cant complain ,they just had a poor run but look drive ahead things can only get better.

If we wait another few games and its the same old story ,when is it okay to question things.Do we wait til after Mayo.If were beaten by Mayo thats year one gone.If we see no definite lines of Progress ,we waste another year which is the story of Cork Football.Id prefer like many to judge each game at face value,judge in transit rather than wait til the horse has bolted and then close the gate.
Why did not any former Great Players crticise Pundits that said the players were Pathetic and spineless.That to me was a bit much conisdering some had proved there worth on the ptich many a time unlike the management that are unproven in management.

Everthing else is being criticsed imo bar what should be.Typical Cork deflect the blame elsewhere.Why didnt Slocum criticse the Board or ask why hes fellow team mate with an outstanding Record in Football lost the Casting vote for the Job.Was there any outcry when Morgan was pushed in 2007.

There has been some fans that are walking away from Cork and saying they wont follow them with this regime.I dont agree with that at all at all and it saddens me and they should still go the matches as the players need support however ,and Cork a selection if fans even in Cork u21 hurling as an example the last 4 years with zero hope of winning still rightfully supported them.

Those fans have every right as they pay good money to criticse what they see once its purely on the field of play etc.
You go to a restaurant ,you pay for a meal.You do not like the meal or service your well enitled to say your grievance.If your denied that chance that Restauarant is hardly going to be popular.

Slocum said Cuthbhert lost a load of players this year.Lets keep it in perspective and not the spin being generated.

Yes he did and nobody expected Cork to win an all ireland but the least we expected was a performance against tipp and a win against kerry and to be competive in an all ireland Semi.

This is not like JBM in hurling when 2012 he cut a lot of old lads from.the panel had no underage success ,and a woeful record in Hurling the last 6 years yet in every game he was competive in the championship.
Cuthbhert had no excuse in he has battle hardended expierenced leaders in Cadogan;Shields,Walsh,Goulding,Doc,Kelly,Kerrigan,O Neill and loughery from hes time in the Toughest provinical championship around in Ulster,yet were not even competitve.

zetecescort

The Cork Intermediate Hurling team to play Galway in the All-Ireland Semi-Final at 2.45pm on Saturday at Tullamore will line out as follows:

1. Richie Cunningham (Youghal)
2. John O’Callaghan (Inniscarra - Captain)
3. Alan Dennehy (Charleville)
4. Brian O’Sullivan (Fermoy)
5. Colm Barry (Castlelyons)
6. Tadhg Healy (Buttevant)
7. Cormac Murphy (Mallow)
8. Nicky Kelly (Mayfield)
9. Michael Walsh (Kildorrery)
10. Colm Spillane (Castlelyons)
11. Peter O’Brien (Kildorrery)
12. Michael O’Sullivan (Tracton)
13. Colm Casey (Inniscarra)
14. John Cronin (Lisgoold)
15. David Drake (Carrigaline)

Subs
16. James Mc Sweeney (Bandon)
17. John Grace (Youghal)
18. Tomás Lawrence (Brian Dillons)
19. John Sheehan (Argideen Rangers)
20. Mark Kennefick (Ballygarvan)
21. Mark Sugrue (Bandon)
22. Ronan Crowley (Bandon)
23. Anthony Spillane (Castlelyons)
24. Adrian Mannix (Kilworth)

Liam Hayes and his selectors have made two changes to the team that won the Munster title, with Brian O'Sullivan (Fermoy) replacing Barra Ó Tuama and Colm Spillane in for Jamie Wall, who loses out through illness.

Selectors: Liam Hayes (Dromina) - Coach,
Pat O'Connell (Delany's)
Seamus Lawton (Castlemartyr)
Peter Brennan (Ballinhassig)
Jerry Linehan (Inniscarra)

Presumably this means Cormac Murphy will only be suspended for u-21 games. Any word on length of his ban? Sent off for violent conduct?

thinkstoomuch1

I was wondering the same re Muphy.
Id say just one match but if we did do the unlikely and beat Clare it wouldnt be bad as we have Antrim in a semi final.

Thats a strong Balanced team but id worry for healy lack of pace in this weather.
O tuama rightfully got dropped has been poor in hes games.

Its a hard working team with a great work ethic and In Murphy,Walsh,Micheal Sul,Cronin and O Brien ball winners and phyisclity.

I expect Murphy to have a stormer.
Id start Mannix myself,hard fast ground he would fly it and id drop Colm back.

Its hard to gauge as we dont know what Galway are like.
In Sugrue and anthony spillane who are being kept for the u21 and Crowley and Mannix Cork have a bench to make a difference.