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Irish cultural cringe??

kingchess

my Scottish buddy was telling me about the "Scottish cringe" and like a fool I had to Google it,there is also Australian and Canadian versions .and judging by some threads,posts/posters on AH the Irish version is alive and well, to paraphrase.it seems to manifest itself by feelings of low respect for Language and Heritage and a sycophantic attachment to the ways are done in other English-speaking Countries,and is a form of cultural Alienation. now......who suffers from it???

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Arthur Beesley

darkpagandeath wrote: »

I stand corrected. Is it ?

Something Horan. Did the same at a British GP in the early 2000's.

Hotfail.com

How someone can think of our culture as inferior to that of England or America is beyond on me...

Shakespeare's Sister

Found Irish pretty cumbersome to learn in leaving cert (managed it ok before that). I don't take issue with people not liking learning it - that's not something voluntary anyway. It's people who say it should be gotten rid of, simply because they personally don't like it, which is what's being objected to.

loh_oro

Mean Laqueefa wrote: »

Why the hate ?

I hate it because I was forced to learn it when I had no interest in the language

Remmy

jellyboy wrote: »

My Cultral cringe is the knockers of our great little country

I would say boards and the views contained within is a good example
(not all ,but the percentage that lurk and ponce and sweetly troll)

bewbs

Karl Stein

Creeps.

Links234

loh_oro wrote: »

I hate it because I was forced to learn it when I had no interest in the language

But would that be the same of any language you had to learn in school? to get anywhere with learning a language you need to have an interest in it and use it or hear it regularly, but you don't see so many folks raging against French or German?

Sound of Silence

loh_oro wrote: »

I hate it because I was forced to learn it.

We're forced to learn a lot of things in School, not all of it useful, but it doesn't stop other people from enjoying the experience. A lot of the Irish language detractors forget this.

Rabbo

jellyboy wrote: »

My Cultral cringe is the knockers of our great little country

I would say boards and the views contained within is a good example
(not all ,but the percentage that lurk and ponce and sweetly troll)

I'd have to disagree

DEFTLEFTHAND

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Something Horan. Did the same at a British GP in the early 2000's.

Fr Neill Horan yes, he took an unmerciful beating in the Silverstone pitlane after that incident in 03. He claimed stewards intentionally deposited him inside the Williams garage where a mob had formed to issue the beatdown.

lol. may or may not be bullsh1t

loh_oro

Sound of Silence wrote: »

We're forced to learn a lot of things in School, not all of it useful, but it doesn't stop other people from enjoying the experience. A lot of the Irish language detractors forget this.

Irish is the only subject in the entire leaving cert that the state demands you do

Hotfail.com

loh_oro wrote: »

Irish is the only subject in the entire leaving cert that the state demands you do

Maths? English?

loh_oro

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Maths? English?

The Leaving Certificate (Established) is a two-year programme that aims to provide learners with a broad, balanced education while also offering some specialisation towards a particular career option. The programme is taken in almost all schools and by an annual cohort of around 55,000 students. Students following the Leaving Certificate (Established) programme are required to study at least five subjects, one of which must be Irish. In general, students take five or more subjects (usually seven) for examination. Syllabuses are available in 31 subjects. All subjects are offered at two levels, ordinary and higher. Irish and Mathematics are available at foundation level also.

Taking from the NCCA website

FTA69

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I bet if it was a choice like history or geography, people wouldn't end up despising it nearly as much - or if it was taught like French where the focus is on speaking the language rather than the literature aspect.

.

All language teaching in Ireland is utterly crap and French, German etc are no better taught. I did French for four years and can't speak a bloody word of it. I'm learning Spanish for six months now and I know far, far more than I do of French because I learn it in a vocal context.

It's not just Irish that's the problem, it's the methodology.

House of Blaze

What strikes me the most about it though is that the hate springs from the perceived pointlessness of the language at the time you're learning it.

Students don't tend to have as dim a view of other languages as they believe that there is some use to be had in learning them.

kingchess

besides despising the Language some posters give the impression that Irish(one of the oldest vernacular Language in Europe)had no effect on our culture and History,our History is also downplayed(maybe because of Northern Ireland) and posters take a more-dare I say it?-imperialist view of it, which ties in with cultural alienation where people place little value on their own history and culture and place more value on the former colonising power,

Reekwind

loh_oro wrote: »

Irish is the only subject in the entire leaving cert that the state demands you do

Because as a student you were really au fait with the legislation governing the preservation of Irish viz-a-viz the selection of other mandatory subjects on the syllabus :rolleyes:

The distinction between Irish and English and Maths in schools is entirely academic and irrelevant to 99% of students. As far as the latter are concerned, all three subjects are mandatory. Yet I've never heard anyone turn around and complain that Maths shouldn't be compulsory, even though the vast majority of us will never have to solve a differential equation after the Leaving.

But Irish is perceived to be inferior. Hence the complaints that we're forced to learn it instead of a more 'civilised' tongue.

Hotfail.com

Reekwind wrote: »

Because as a student you were really au fait with the legislation governing the preservation of Irish viz-a-viz the selection of other mandatory subjects on the syllabus :rolleyes:

The distinction between Irish and English and Maths in schools is entirely academic and irrelevant to 99% of students. As far as the latter are concerned, all three subjects are mandatory. Yet I've never heard anyone turn around and complain that Maths shouldn't be compulsory, even though the vast majority of us will never have to solve a differential equation after the Leaving.

But Irish is perceived to be inferior. Hence the complaints that we're forced to learn it instead of a more 'civilised' tongue.

The thing with Irish is that even from primary school it's treated as a dull, boring and irrelevant subject. How do you get kids to get interested in something? By making it fun, and Irish is the one subject that I can honestly say I never had any fun with which is unfortunate as I would actually have liked to have learned more.

Adamantium

It's funny when I used to watch TV shows or play games as a kid, they would often include an Irish song and I would immediately like "is that Irish/Gaelige?" Far from being cringy, this kind of music was emotional and soulful/beautiful as you could get. I would often think as a child "that's so cool that it's used in big international things, why is this stuff not more mainstream nationally on the radio as opposed to the Garth Brooks knock-off down in Leitrim/Roscommon pretending to American cowboys?"

There's rarely a more emotional language than Gaeilge:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vc8pHIAV9v8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6miaTf1gF4g

Wacker The Attacker

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not really, English is forced on you as well and it's mostly literature based but the majority of texts on JC and LC English exams aren't on a par with suicide notes in terms of cheeriness, which those on the Irish course invariably are.

The difference being that English is useful and widely spoken

Wacker The Attacker

arse..biscuits wrote: »

I have no idea how someone can hate a language.

I have.

kingchess

would you like to talk about it??

asteroids over berlin

i hate out lack lustre attitude, being screwed by the government and taking it, although many stupid people deserved it for paying crazy prices for houses/apartments etc, however, myself as a mortgage free person detests the fact i have to pay higher taxes - democracy my arse! Sure lets go to the pub...........

I hate our ole ole ole chants anywhere, lately the ufc match.

Lapin

The problem with the word 'culture' is the way it can be twisted by anyone to have you believe their version of it is what counts.

The Gaelic revival movements at the turn of the 19th and 20th century are largely responsible for the way 'Irish Culture' is represented today.
A lot of it is very staged and designed to appeal to a foreign audience and for the most part, bears little resemblence to the past.

The truth is - plundering, raping, kidnapping and slavery are as much a feature in Irish culture as they are in the cultures of other nations that went on to build vast empires.

BuilderPlumber

The only thing I don't like about Irish culture is that awful new country and irish stuff. Mike Denver, Derek Ryan, all that type of stuff. This is a sad legacy for Irish music and an insult to Luke Kelly and other true folk legends we have.

But Irish culture has much more positives.

Music: Even if the present music scene is the poorest it has ever been in Ireland, it ain't any better elsewhere! We can be proud also that many of the top US music legends as well as certain UK ones incl. The Beatles were all part Irish. Irish music has produced legends ranging from Luke Kelly & Dolores Keane to Thin Lizzy & U2.

TV: Love/Hate is one of the best series to come out of anywhere in recent times.

Irish Language: it is a lovely language but is taught horribly in school.

Irish dancing: all countries have their folk dances and we should be proud of this tradition too.

The pub: our pub scene is dying. There's nothing like a good evening in a rural pub and that is something that we are loosing. But at its best, it is (was?) special.

Poetry, plays, TV scripts and literature: from Yeat & Singe through John McGahern and Patrick Kavanagh right up to Stuart Carolan (Love/Hate) & John Connolly, it is safe to say we excel at this.

Sport: Hurling is one of the best games in the world.

Fair enough, when it comes to food we are not in the class of the French, Italians, Indians or Chinese. But we have to be copycats in some areas and we can do all the above types of foods well.

DrFloppy

Never made an effort to learn Irish because of the way it was taught to me and I kind of resented it as a kid. Wish it was taught properly though - would love to be able to speak it now.

Other than that, I'm proud of Irish culture. We all should be. In an increasingly modern and globalised world, it's good to hang on to some aspects of our heritage to remind us of who we were and where we came from.

Karl Stein

Lapin wrote: »

The Gaelic revival movements at the turn of the 19th and 20th century are largely responsible for the way 'Irish Culture' is represented today.

Thank goodness. See that word you've used there 'revival' - that means something was dying or in the Irish example being deliberately killed.

Our former British colonists did their fair share of killing Irish culture and Irish people. In the 1840's Ireland had a population of 8 million, by the time we booted out the British the population was halved to four million by starving to death and emigration.

Happy days, eh?

Reekwind

Lapin wrote: »

The Gaelic revival movements at the turn of the 19th and 20th century are largely responsible for the way 'Irish Culture' is represented today.

The same can be said about Czech, German, French, Italian or any other national culture. In the case of Czech and Finnish, two of the most obvious examples, the modern languages were virtually invented in the 19th C. But those origins in no way invalidate or the fact that here and now distinct Czech and Finnish cultures exist; nor is their value lessened by their origins.

A lot of it is very staged and designed to appeal to a foreign audience and for the most part, bears little resemblence to the past.

Suggesting that the purpose of the Gaelic League (and other revivalists) was to impress an external audience is silly. Ditto with the idea that traditional Irish culture today merely serves to impress tourists - something that no doubt insults the interests of musicians and fans across the country.

And that's not even touching on modern Irish culture, which is, regardless of what some think, distinct from that of America or Britain.

mickydoomsux

DrFloppy wrote: »

In an increasingly modern and globalised world, it's good to hang on to some aspects of our heritage to remind us of who we were and where we came from.

Why?

What good will that do us?

Grayson

Irish language is taught horribly. It may be that I might have liked it if it was taught differently, but honestly I was sick of it by the time I left school.

Irish dancing is hilarious. Especially when the girls dress up in those wigs and fake tan. I don't think anyone who finds it funny is anti irish. just like anyone who finds morris dancing funny is anti english.

Irish literature is hit and miss for me. Some like Patrick Kavanagh I hate. The irony is that his stony grey soil clogged my youth.

I can't stand most trad music. there's a lot of traditional/folk music that I don't like. That's not to say that I don't think the chieftians or the dubliners couldn't belt out a few good tunes, but I'm really just not that into it. I think expecting someone to like a type of music because of where they're from is stupid.