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Cork GAA Discussion Thread

SigersonCup

Just thought I'd make a thread on Cork GAA seeing as noone else has made one already. Feel free to talk about anything about Cork GAA, especially hurling and especially the Senior Hurling Championship.

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sean mac

Welcome back ttm, you were right about the football management - clueless, fierce hassle in the squad with management leaving the blame with the players and not accepting responsibility for their naivete and stupidity in leaving a full back line hung out to dry and selecting the second weakest cork half back line I have seen (the first being the one that lined out vs tipp).
You were right about john hayes also and that Kerry game is his last in a cork jersey.
Cork could well be beaten by Sligo - its a very very simple formula, play 12 men behind the ball, you will win midfield due to the bishopstown keeper being unable to kick the ball out win it.
Would not surprise me if Sligo win, presume they are in good spirits after their recent wins.
However if cork were to beat Sligo, they will receive an awful hammering off mayo in croke park which will further expose this management team.
Heard tony davis was brought on board after the panic of the Kerry debacle to help with the defence......ffs what were McCarthy, sexton and Ciaran o Sullivan doing all along?
Also heard there was an sos sent to alan o connor but he wisely turned it down.
Btw lads anyone who wants to see where cork are with Cuthbert should listen to the podcast of his interview with colm Parkinson after the Kerry disgrace - unbelieveable stuff and frightening, 2 sentences worth highlighting - ' we were thinking of dropping a sweeper after 20minutes BUT DECIDED TO WAITH UNTIL HALF TIME' and this beauty - 'I wouldn't have liked to be a corner back out there today' as if he had no impact on the game

thinkstoomuch1

Id agree Gary what you said.I have always believed in Managers in any Sport being the absoulte key to a team,as as much as talent availble is key,the Great managers get every last inch out of their rescources as they set up and adapt the team to play unlike Cuthbhert done,to utilise the strengths and not expose your weakness.

It all comes back to ,what Cuthbhert had that Cleary didnt when the vote was at 3-3 yet The casting vote went to Cuthbhert.I said it here then that The haven delegate Michael Maguire was spot on to ask to ask The Board why Cuthbhert got the Casting vote of confidence over Cleary and hinted was Cuthbherts allowance of Dualusim a factor.He had the right to question it and deserved an answer.He is a delegate after all.

Typical CCB response,not prepared to answer thats for the Board to only know.The Taoiseach, is accountable for decisions in office as at least the public can vote in time at election.In Cork Gaa,no such thing.Again its stems back to the strucutal orgainistion of power at Board level.Delegates have no real power in key decisions.

Power point Presenations fair play to Cuthbhert he is a top man in that.And i have no doubt hes intelligent and a superb at hes day job.Thats has no relevance to being a Cork Manager though.

However doing a power point vision of Cork vision for the future may be fine for the Prawn Sandwich brigade in Cork football but It means nothing to grass roots gaa people who want managers that understand a game.

Ned English said last year,a superb read, he would have loved a Cork job.Not even Considered.Ned would not do a fancy presentation ,chances are you be very lucky if he even wore a suit to an interview.He could turn up in a jumper,and a jacket and thats it.The man has,no airs or graces,in take him as you see him or not at all. He's face may not fit with with some but he understands the Game inside out.

Look at he's record with limited recources in Duhallow,Clyda and Dromcollogher Broadford truly.outstanding.Duhallow were beaten by a point the other night yet fot a team that had no game under their belt and preparation severly disrupted they were just beaten by a point.

Yet this man couldnt even get an.interview for the Minor job.
Look who the current Minor manager is.

I said after our win in waterford that we had to change that team and we had serious weakness in.the team.I lamented that Michael Desmond ,And the Truly Wonderful Chizende Obegene were not on the Panel even.Dorgan is a superb trainer though.

Fair play though they finally at last brought in Desmond and he had a fine debut and imo shouldnt have been taken off.Desmond is a tough cookie.He Boxed at underage and won a National title and an accomplished Road Bowler.Big strong shoulders,hes hard to shake off.But he has real character and inner resolve.He would not of been a boxer if he had not those qualites.

He's twin win sister Christine won a Silver medal in the World Championships.Its in their DNA.Breeding comes out through the eye of a cat as the saying goes.

Obegene has been pheneomhal for Nemo u21s,very good in last weeks drawn County Final and i'd recommened any one watch him.in the Replay tonight.He is fast,direct,hard working ,covers acres of ground and has a real desire and hunger in a game.
He is on Nemo senior panel yet he is just on the extended Cork panel.and just only called up.

I say it now, he is a certainty to be an u21 down the line under Nemo man Sean Hayes.Mike Lordan superb in the All Ireland B final against Kavanagh an intercounty player in Croke park cant even start.

That minor team has a superb talent and showed superb heart v kerry but we were as i feared out thought and out foxed by the Shrewd and great Coach in Jack o Connor.
The scoreline flattered us a bit as Kerry had to be fair two goal decisions that went against them.

We are likely to play Dublin who destroyed offaly last week should they beat kildare and we have to start Lordan,Desmond and Obegene to have any chance.
Kevin Flahive Captain and an outstanding defender and had a superb game against Spillane,as good as he was Flahive couldnt handle Obegene in u21 County game in Nemo.v Douglas weeks ago.Obegene has it all.You need a certain type of player to beat kerry.Obegene is that player.

Yes cork had injuries but In the Case of Daniel Meaney who im a huge fan of as a hurler, i said was not the best centre back in Cork football imo.If he was fit to play he would have started however O Donovan hes replacement was outstanding.That lad only played due to an injury.
If English,Mccarthy,Morgan had that team we could win an all ireland.

I said Corks legacy of this senior team would be decided by Management and all our problems were 100 per cent fixable yet we are in real risk of flattering to decieve and its ironic in for the next two years,certainly next year that we will beat them in the u21 grade yet they well and truly have our number at senior and minor for at least the next year.

The u21 grade is where we have a better management as it is great to see they gave Darragh o Se a two year term again.
The real threat is if Jack takes over them down the line and id imagine he will.

Cuthbhert won't resign its nots hes style even if Sligo done the unthinkable and beat us.He will sing the usual line,I believe in Myself,I won't hide away from a challenge,i believe in the squad,this was a long term project etc.

And then as poor managers do,the Famous Battle cry,we need supporters to get behind us more than ever,be postive when they fail to realise they are not up to it themselves.And the best line of all is usually we can't pin point where it went wrong exactly but well learn.Rome wasn't buit in a day etc.Its a process,well review it,talk the players etc etc.
Cork should remember the Titantic,unsinkable ,yet it hit an iceberg in the blink of an eye as the warning signs were ignored.

Like a Horror movie you have seen one script you seen them all.Like Cork Football at times though its different actors in the main roles but the endings are the same,Dissasters.In a movie you can get up and leave at any time.In Cork Football, we have no choice but to endure it as we love it too much to just walk away but you pray to god common sense prevails.

I thought it was remarkable to Read what Cusack said today that JBM,after cork were trounced in 1999 by Tippereary in Only a Challenge game yet JBM was going to resign and he had to be asked to stay.JBM a proven minor manager in 1995,two solid years with definite progression yet after just a challenge match he would have walked if he thought it was for the best for the good of Cork gaa.

Yet Cuthbhert with a real blend of expierence and youth who oversaw Cork have there worst Defeat in 40 years after a truly dismal performance in the Tipp game is as bullish and defiant as ever and not a hint of conisidering hes position.

Denis Walsh had a woeful 2 years,the confidence and belief was drained out of the team,yet Walsh had the audacity to put hes name forward for a second term.How could he justify hes record is beyond logic.
When it was said there was trouble in the Hurling this year i did not agree there was.There was one or two things that had to be sorted out but they were minor ones but the players never lost faith in JBM.

I geuinely , However ,would have real concerns in what i heard the last 3 weeks ,over belief,unity,moral in this Camp.
In that same Newspaper article today Cusack asked the question is there any cure for the damage that success does to a team?or for the limits that traditiion puts on a County.
He says then "its finding the right people"and uses Brian Cody as an example in that he nails eveything so tightly down .Cork ladies football have the same attuide and have the right man in the wonderful Eammon Ryan.
Our Senior mens team have not the right manager ,not even close to it.

Gary Neville

I don't know whether it would be better to lose to Sligo or not. If we win that, we'll get a right tanking from Mayo and things will have to come to a head.

I'd expect senior figures in Cork Football to come out publically and demand change. I'd say Ger Lane and the 3 club delegates on the selection committee are embarrased with their decision. Diarmuid O Donovan is a football man and he's got a holiday home in Ballyferriter - he'll be too embarrased to go down this summer and face the locals after the Munster Final Shambles. I'd expect the pressure to really mount on Cuthbert.

Denis Walsh is very similar to Cubby but not nearly as poor a manager. I'd expect O Sullivan and Sexton to be honest and admit what we've got is totally unacceptable - but Cuthbert won't walk away.

This is a crisis IMO - we've had the worst defeat to Kerry since 1962 and our squad is far from the worst we've had in 50 years. It's baffling just how bad the management is - how is it that not one of them can see the mistakes being constantly repeated ?

thinkstoomuch1

Anthony Davis was Manager of the the Cork u21 team,that had a core of All Minor winning players that won in 2001 with 11 players i think but in 2003 were beaten by waterford at u21and it was such a farcial set up as the Great Noel O Leary said in a Sunday Tribune article around 2007 with Kieran Shannon(still with Mayo i believe).He was honest enough to call a spade a spade.I would love Noels view on the current set up.

Thats superb news for the dual player going forward with Anthony Davis on board though if he stays on the day Aidan Walsh said he will stay dual for the next two years in todays paper.Who is the next coach ,Teddy Mccarthy i suppose to sort midfield.

Anthony Davis had Gardiner and Setanta Halpin on the u21 panel and they hadnt played or trained as they had a senior hurling with Cork 2003 yet That management led by Anthony Davis tried to get the football game put back over two lads that werent needed in the team and up to the day of the game ,players werent sure if it was going ahead or not.It was a right mess.

Thats just unbelievable as you said Sean we have now 3 lads that played half back in the coaching set up if Anthony Davis as you say is in there.Yet bar one ,none of our set up id be confident in.The panel needs guidance,and composure yet We turn to the Brother of a Selector thats has a dismal record in coaching at Inter County Level.

Cuthbhert said he was going to review the last 12 weeks.Yet he brings in a lad that isnt going to call a spade a spade and says the harsh truths about the set up when Don was with that set up the last 7 months.

Gene O Driscoll would not be brought in as he would not go along with things if they were not right.Maybe he would would not want to join them.
The set up is like An Old School reunuion imo ,past teamates meeting up,but,no real Voice inside the dressing room to say we have real issues ,and this is how we sort them out.

That article was by the brillant Kerian Shannon in The Sunday Tribune in August 2007.That paper is gone so there is no link from it directly .Noel says it as it was in ,what was one of the best and most honest interviews i ever read in terms of a whole piece.A diffcult read in terms Noel spoke bout he's personal tragedies.Such bravery he had.

The extract

[
"The Cork under 21 team management during what he now calls the lost years, for instance. "It was the worst set-up I've ever seen. Selectors turning up late; poor locations, no tactics before games, no buzz in the camp. For them three years we didn't even threaten to win an All Ireland when we had the players to do it. In 2003 we ended up losing to Waterford. Rightly so. That was the game they parachuted Setanta [O hAilpin] and [John] Gardiner in for before the [senior AllIreland] hurling final. No disrespect to the two lads but they never trained with us that year while they were taking the places of fellas who'd trained all year. Sure that's not a team".]

In relation to Cork trying to get the game cancelled against waterford .
This link was from the Examiner in 2003.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2003/0812/ireland/cork-fail-to-get-u-21-football-semi-final-deferred-677803636.html

Just to Clarify i have nothing but the greatest Regard for Anthony as a player,he was outstanding as a player and one of the best Cork half backs ever.As far as im aware hes record of senior,junior,minor,u21 and Club All Irelands medals still stands.However he is being judged now as a Coach not a player.
Rory deane looks set to be out for the rest of the year.A huge loss normally but he was never a majior part of this set ups team when he was fit so
they cant use it as an excuse.I wish Deane the best in he's Recovery.

It unlikely to happpen but Michael Laoire has to be recalled to the panel,he was treated poorily in he never got any real game time despite Cuthbhert saying every player would get a fair chance.Simply not true in Laoires Case.Is he the answer??we don't know as he wasnt given games however he was an ideal partner at u21 With Aidan Walsh.

Id agree Sean,the post match interviews are nearly worse than the result as the reaction to it is leaving a lot to be desired.
Gary,poor managers never realise their mistakes,thats why their poor and their perception and view of things is often way off.

For example towards the end Of Couinhans reigme he spoke a lot of how lads had to Step and up play what in front of them as if it was their fault yet hes tactics and inability to read a game meant Cork could not play what was in front of them and against Kerry,Dublin and Galway spent most of the games chasing teams.
And Aidan walsh couldnt play what in front of him as he was out of positon at Centre forward.
Nemo won the u 21 replay,County handy in the end tonight.

slingerz

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Anthony Davis was Manager of the the Cork u21 team,that had a core of All Minor winning players that won in 2001 with 11 players i think but in 2003 were beaten by waterford at u21and it was such a farcial set up as the Great Noel O Leary said in a Sunday Tribune article around 2007 with Kieran Shannon(still with Mayo i believe).He was honest enough to call a spade a spade.I would love Noels view on the current set up.

Thats superb news for the dual player going forward with Anthony Davis on board though if he stays on the day Aidan Walsh said he will stay dual for the next two years in todays paper.Who is the next coach ,Teddy Mccarthy i suppose to sort midfield.

Anthony Davis had Gardiner and Setanta Halpin on the u21 panel and they hadnt played or trained as they had a senior hurling with Cork 2003 yet That management led by Anthony Davis tried to get the football game put back over two lads that werent needed in the team and up to the day of the game ,players werent sure if it was going ahead or not.It was a right mess.

Thats just unbelievable as you said Sean we have now 3 lads that played half back in the coaching set up if Anthony Davis as you say is in there.Yet bar one ,none of our set up id be confident in.The panel needs guidance,and composure yet We turn to the Brother of a Selector thats has a dismal record in coaching at Inter County Level.

Cuthbhert said he was going to review the last 12 weeks.Yet he brings in a lad that isnt going to call a spade a spade and says the harsh truths about the set up when Don was with that set up the last 7 months.

Gene O Driscoll would not be brought in as he would not go along with things if they were not right.Maybe he would would not want to join them.
The set up is like An Old School reunuion imo ,past teamates meeting up,but,no real Voice inside the dressing room to say we have real issues ,and this is how we sort them out.

That article was by the brillant Kerian Shannon in The Sunday Tribune in August 2007.That paper is gone so there is no link from it directly .Noel says it as it was in ,what was one of the best and most honest interviews i ever read in terms of a whole piece.A diffcult read in terms Noel spoke bout he's personal tragedies.Such bravery he had.

The extract

[
"The Cork under 21 team management during what he now calls the lost years, for instance. "It was the worst set-up I've ever seen. Selectors turning up late; poor locations, no tactics before games, no buzz in the camp. For them three years we didn't even threaten to win an All Ireland when we had the players to do it. In 2003 we ended up losing to Waterford. Rightly so. That was the game they parachuted Setanta [O hAilpin] and [John] Gardiner in for before the [senior AllIreland] hurling final. No disrespect to the two lads but they never trained with us that year while they were taking the places of fellas who'd trained all year. Sure that's not a team".]

In relation to Cork trying to get the game cancelled against waterford .
This link was from the Examiner in 2003.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2003/0812/ireland/cork-fail-to-get-u-21-football-semi-final-deferred-677803636.html

Just to Clarify i have nothing but the greatest Regard for Anthony as a player,he was outstanding as a player and one of the best Cork half backs ever.As far as im aware hes record of senior,junior,minor,u21 and Club All Irelands medals still stands.However he is being judged now as a Coach not a player.
Rory deane looks set to be out for the rest of the year.A huge loss normally but he was never a majior part of this set ups team when he was fit so
they cant use it as an excuse.I wish Deane the best in he's Recovery.

It unlikely to happpen but Michael Laoire has to be recalled to the panel,he was treated poorily in he never got any real game time despite Cuthbhert saying every player would get a fair chance.Simply not true in Laoires Case.Is he the answer??we don't know as he wasnt given games however he was an ideal partner at u21 With Aidan Walsh.

Id agree Sean,the post match interviews are nearly worse than the result as the reaction to it is leaving a lot to be desired.
Gary,poor managers never realise their mistakes,thats why their poor and their perception and view of things is often way off.

For example towards the end Of Couinhans reigme he spoke a lot of how lads had to Step and up play what in front of them as if it was their fault yet hes tactics and inability to read a game meant Cork could not play what was in front of them and against Kerry,Dublin and Galway spent most of the games chasing teams.
And Aidan walsh couldnt play what in front of him as he was out of positon at Centre forward.
Nemo won the u 21 replay,County handy in the end tonight.

O'Laoire was very poor for Naimh Aban in the intermediate championship recently cant see being an option at inter county

Also don't agree with the fanfare surrounding gene Driscoll as a coach. Would be well behind the likes of Ricken as a coach for me

Amprodude

Cork need an outside the county manager with a track record of success and no politics or bias with team. It should be tried. It couldnt be any worse than the rubbish at present.

MAXELLROSE

Agreed, what Cork need is a John Evans type character for example. A man that knows his football, who brought tipp and roscommon on a lot. A cute Kerry man who would no doubt relish the chance to manage a so called top 5 team. Can't see it happening though, not with cork county board

thinkstoomuch1

Fintan Gould a superb underage player and u21 player of the year but imo has got too many chances and is at best just good and i said he should get games before but hes too inconsistent for Cork.Yet hes fine for Macroom and Muskerry in hes own comfort zone.Apparently he was good For Muskerry Wednesday night.

My starters against Mayo would be Dinneen and walsh.But Laoire has to be called up.
Any time i saw Laoire he had fine games and is a great man on breaking ball and he kicks well.Its not inconcievable that Andrew or Gould wont have good games v sligo if they play it is likely Andrew would be fine in a tight slow game in a small.ptich in Tullamore.Gould is fine in that stage.

Yet in the Big spaces of Croker where against Mayo who will dominate possession as its going to be hard enough to win it,that we cant have Andrew kicking aimless ball away.Gould has the talents without a doubt but big match temparement is lacking.

As for Gene,he He won a An Ireland Club Medal with O Donovan Rossa as a Coach and player.He is hughely respected in Cork.He has a proven track record in minor and u21 with Cork.

I saw Cork u21 team train many times this year but the last one in the lead up to the Kerry game stood out for me.Everthing at pace and tempo.Training was at a certain time it began at that time. The Cones were laid out on the ptich everthing ready for the players and unlike what i Saw in Ul,there was a real structure and organistion in the set up.

Gene would have respect of all players ,some of the current "Famous five" have no such expierence.He certainly can't be any worse than we have in some of the set up.Ricken is a fine coach but im not sure he can commit to it and Gene knows a lot of these from minor in 2010 but he also had a sustainable working relationship with Cuthbhert that would work.The dynamic and balance has to be right as unfortunately cuthbhert wont be sacked so it takes a certain type of indivudal to work in the current set up which is lets be honest is a shambles.I'd let Gene and Ronan would have the main input.Ciaran and Sexton to work on the basic skills with the lads.

Cuthbhert to deal with the Media,and Bring Don Davis with him but let the real coaching to Gene and Ronan.Horses for Courses now so to speak.Cuthbherts strong point is communications,and he should stick to what he knows.No room for error now.

Morgan,Ricken,English would be great options however i Doubt very much they would work with Cuthbhert.Sean hayes a superb manager gave himself a great start at u21 before a ball was even kicked in having Gene as Coach.Cuthbhert gave himself an uphill task with the set up he picked.He needs to be the bigger man and rectify it for the Greater Good of Cork football.Thats what matters the most now Cork Fotball not personal reputations.

Halloran kick outs i admit have to improve however i still don't blame him totally as he's confidence is going to be zero when he has little to aim at .Walsh was marked by at least 3 men in the kerry game.

Nash used to get unfair Critisism in the Hurling for 2 years but he had no ball winning half forward bar Cronin who was like a slice of ham in a Sandwich,well covered on both sides.

Now he has at least 4 options.I would reserve total judgement on Ken til he actually has a competent midfied pairing to aim at.He is a superb shot stopper and that will be needed v Mayo if we meet.

My team would be O halloran,shields,Cadogan,Galvin,Loughrey,;Clancy,Kelly,Walsh,Dinneen,O Rourke, Collins,Kerrigan,Donnacha, Hurley and O'Neill.

I would swarm and pack the middle third.Kelly gets the nod as we dont have much options now and it is too late to hand Brian O Driscoll game time in we need stability and expierence now.Kelly is a good sweeper and good for the breaks.Its unfair to throw young deubtants on to a sinking ship to swim through stormy seas when we need expierence that has surival skills.

Kelly Could be exposed in a one v one but if the system is right he could do a job,would bring badly needed compusure here as Cuthbherts chopping and changing of the half back line means we have to do the best we can in a limited time. There is more restructure of the half back line but that is for next year.

The main target if we play Mayo is primary possession and ball retention.The longer we remain in the game the better chance we have.Kelly must hold hes posistion and never cross the half way line.We must slow down the pace as much as possible when they have the ball as they love a tempo,not great creating if you deny them space as Roscommon done.When we have the ball we must Counter attack with pace and purpose.

Collins would be just above the half back line up to midfield aera.He would be a second Sweeper but he has the engine to go forward when he has to.A blanket is the best way to beat Mayo as stop them running down the middle as they don't have many forwards that can kick accurately from distance points consistently in Croker

O Rourke and Kerrigan as the Runners and Grafters that help midfield and when they get ball they use their pace to run at Vaughan for example who is slow and can be exposed.You need pace in the modern game and O Rourke and Kerrigan have that.

O Rourke is a real grafter ,pivotal involment in the counter attack that led to Hayes goal in Croker.He is a more accomplished footballer and has unlike Colm ODriscoll
real pace and guile.

Donnacha is a good target man to drop back to half forward and hold up play when needed and pick a pass to Hurley or Colm inside .Goulding very unlucky to miss out but we must play a certain way against Mayo.
Any penalites,Donnacha takes thems.And the frees we have options in O Neill,Donnacha and O Rourke as proved in hes 2013 league Debut in Croker.

There is no point in wholesale changes in the Main Problem was we had no plan against Kerry.Cork players arent that bad.
Its not a game you can judge the players,but certainly judge the Manager.I judge Gould etc on many other poor games not just that game.

Cork would be set up to defend in numbers but with Kelly,Collins,O Rourke,Clancy,Donnacha they have guys who can kick fast ball at distance in to Hurley and Colm who can both win their own ball and with two of such class inside you cant Double mark both,that takes 4 men to do it and if that happens theres space for kerrigan,Rourke,Walsh and Dinnen to Run through the middle.

Donnacha,O Rourke etc can score from distance also .
To compete with Mayo we need ,resilent,abrasive warriors,but pace,intelligent footballers with good basic footballing skills and real leaders in every line.And we need some expierence .

DOC offers the line composure.Hodnett or Vaughan could do the same but its unfair and a huge ask to throw them particulary Vaughan in at the deep end v Mayo.They are good subs to have.

Most importantly we must have a game plan.Gene understands unlike Cuthbhert that No One aera defines a team,and the sum of parts is greater than the indivudals and Cork would actually play as a Team.He would have half forwards that work as a unit and can defend.
Monaghan and Donegal are prime examples of a "Team"in that everyone works to a system and each player has a defined role.

Cuthbhert had our lads playing as they were kids in the backgarden,play with free spirit and freedom.
No such freedom exists in Intercounty football against the top teams.You must have a system to play to.

Cuthbhert thinks being strong in just one aera is fine.He wants to play a fast all attacking game ,and has no idea regards the other vital concepts of the modern game.A jigsaw puzzle even missing just one piece never made a pretty picture in truth.Cuthbhert has a big Puzzle to solve.

Cork have played mostly as indivudals under him and in the league flattered to decieve.It is time to be realistic.

sean mac

ttm, I cannot understand how you can have loughrey starting for cork again. He has done nothing except do well in bleep tests to get into the team. He is a terrible defender, and for a northerner has no cut about him. Also a very very poor kick passer. Fermoy tom Clancy is a far superior player - he is big and aggressive perhaps too much for the all out attack the bishopstown man wants, in addition now is the time imo to throw in someone like brian o driscoll, that half back line was dreadful in the last 3 games and for some reason every player has been replaced except loughrey. Ii have no doubt a weak clueless sideline like cork currently have will opt for him again, spouting some nonsense like 'experience'.
Imo 3 players who are absolute ded certs to start under Cuthbert - ohallorhan, loughrey and gould are simply not good enough for this level and for all his faults counihan understood this.
I fear Sligo playing 12 men behind the ball could easily shock this team which as it has shown in the last few months has a serious lack of leadership and mental fortitude. A bad couple of years ahead for cork at this level and don't anyone think if we are beaten by Sligo Cuthbert will go, not a chance this fella believes he is the chosen one despite the lack of any record.

thinkstoomuch1

There imo is no need for any outside coach in Cork football and to have one would be a huge insult to the coaching talent we have in Cork.Just cause the wrong men are picked does not mean the talent is not in Cork.

Morgan is a superb coach and hes record is second to none in Cork.The kerry lads in UCC speak glowing of him.
Eammon ryan involved in An All ireland minor winning mens team has revolutinsed Cork ladies Gaa and the Ladies Game in general.
Ned English went to the Dromcollogher Broadford and won a Munster Club title.
John cleary,involved in 10 Munster u21 and two all irelands win and a County with Castlehaven.
James Mccarthy and Keith Ricken are fine coaches.
Cork have talented coaches.

I totally agree that politic and Club bias is evident in Cork GAA at times and even in just speaking about it it is quite clear some don't like Gene over West Cork rivalries,some wouldnt want Castlehaven lads on the team over Club rivalries,you have City lads that would tell you they have better players and Of Course Muskerry would want around 8 starting.

Its not about Club when you play for Cork.Cork is Cork,it repersents the whole County.All that matters is the best 24 make the match day panel on any given day .Club and Divisonal rivarlies must be put to bed.

There is managers that dont do Club bias in Cork.JBM is the greatest example in it does not matter what the club is ,Hurling of Football club, its can you play hurling is all that matters.

Milstreet a Football club with a huge contingent on the 73 team had their ist ever senior Hurler win A Munster Medal inMark Ellis.I hold my hands up and never thought he could make it purely for hurling reasons not club but he has been superb in the 4 games.
He is In contention for an All Star.
Seamua Harnedy got picked from Kilkeagh st itas a junior Club for example.

Jbm has not 4 Barrs men for the sake of it in he's team.He does not entertain club bias and never can be accused of Club bias.
Cork minor hurlers the same they picked lads from all over,Martin Collins from a west cork football aera as an example.

Gene and Sean done the same with the u 21 team.Sean did not pick a lot of Nemo lads.They picked lads from all over cork and West Cork had a strong pick but on form they deserved it.

The managers from outside Cork that were mentioned here last year,Jason Ryan,Kieran Mcgeeney were no where near what we need.Id take cuthbhert over Mcgeeney any day as they are both poor managers but at least Cuthbhert is a cork man and we wouldnt have to spend huge money like we would with Mcgeeney.

Jack o Connor was mentioned but he is a great manager but he wouldnt go to Cork or would he fit in our dynamic.Jack is superb but he is Kerry out and out and he would like to be a Director of Football in Kerry .He is destined to be their u21 manager in 2016 imo.
He is going to win the All ireland minor this year.

Evans is good but certaintly not that good and hes face would not fit in Cork.Hes doing okay with Roscommon and had succcess with Tipp but our own John Creedon who has done a superb job with them and Like Kissane in Clare have unlike Cuthbhert been consistent in both league and championship with their teams.

Thankfully the CCB reluctance to embrace other counties ways and the Pairc being a main issue with their revenue means that for once it has its advanatages and No Way will Cork have an outside manager in Hurling or Football.

I have no problem with outside men in the Antrim lad in strength and Conditioning or David Matthews being with our teams but our manager must be cork men.

Down the line Cork should before they get outside strength and conditiong or trainers from other counties should look first at Cork men like Ed Coughlan with Mayo or Michael Deasy with Western Samoa rubgy and see could they be involved..If you want a sport physcologit,we have Kieran Shannon.

Kissane when he's term with clare ends should be a trainer with our minors or u 21 etc.
If i was to get an outside Manager it would be Donie Buckley as Coach,Close to home and a superb innovate guy and he would work in Cork.He is hes own man also.But that is if i only had to.I would pick a Cork man first and foremost.

Every time and Intercounty job comes availble its a common trait that Profile names are thrown in to spice things up.For example currently the Galway senior Hurling are seeking nominations and while none have been recieved according to the paper yestersday,Im Sure John Allen,Sheedy,Ger Cunningham of Cork be linked when outside from Allen who may be its unlikey the other two would be interested.They should stick closer to home,I wouldnt be suprised if Michael O Donoughe was nominated and got that job.

Cork football needs a Director of Football,Billy Morgan and he appoints managers of all our teams.Thats really the way, forward not an outside manager.Its no suprise that Wexford are making huge inroads when Dunne had the Innovation to bring in Liam Griffin to work with hes team.A symbolic figure in Wexford hurling,an inspired Choice.Cork need likewise.

Sean they are valid concerns regard Loughrey and i agree to a point,however putting in a new half back line would be a dissaster at this stage imo so i would have him there but as i said work on the unit next year.We have limited options in such a short time.

I have clancy in my team.I agree with you a fine player.Loughey is attack minded but the balance has been all wrong in the unit up to now.

Loughey can bomb forward and do what he does well, Kelly and clancy hold the line with Collins ahead of them.There is an.option to take shields out but then you weaken one line to strengthen another one considering we dont primary due to Management strength in depths in natural corner backs availble.
Clancy and Dorman are not or never will be Corner backs.It is a specialsed role.

Crowley,O Driscoll,etc are young fine talents but now isnt the time to throw them in at the deep end.Its fine to throw a young lad in for a debut on a winning team full of confidence.This team has neither.
Its damage limatation for now as we have no time to do otherwise as the 12 weeks that cuthbhert is going to review have been a shambles.

I couldnt see Sligo beating us.They may get a run,and even if they are up by 4 points in the 2nd half they will lack the conviction and belief to beat us and our players will have too much for them.Sligo dont have much scoring forwards and the game is not in Sligo and that helps us.It could be close though.Mayo will be a different team all together.

The team selection should be interesting to say the least when it is named.

Gary Neville

sean mac wrote: »

ttm, I cannot understand how you can have loughrey starting for cork again. He has done nothing except do well in bleep tests to get into the team. He is a terrible defender, and for a northerner has no cut about him. Also a very very poor kick passer. Fermoy tom Clancy is a far superior player - he is big and aggressive perhaps too much for the all out attack the bishopstown man wants, in addition now is the time imo to throw in someone like brian o driscoll, that half back line was dreadful in the last 3 games and for some reason every player has been replaced except loughrey. Ii have no doubt a weak clueless sideline like cork currently have will opt for him again, spouting some nonsense like 'experience'.
Imo 3 players who are absolute ded certs to start under Cuthbert - ohallorhan, loughrey and gould are simply not good enough for this level and for all his faults counihan understood this.
I fear Sligo playing 12 men behind the ball could easily shock this team which as it has shown in the last few months has a serious lack of leadership and mental fortitude. A bad couple of years ahead for cork at this level and don't anyone think if we are beaten by Sligo Cuthbert will go, not a chance this fella believes he is the chosen one despite the lack of any record.

It's not whether Cuthbert goes after the next shambles which will be v Sligo or Mayo - He's got a 2 year term and he's never going to admit that he's out of his depth. I'd be concerned that he'll get another 2 year term after this one.

You'd be hoping that the players get some input but we saw with both Gerald McCarthy and Denis Walsh that players get very little input. There were plenty leaders in that hurling team but once the dressing-room is lost, it immediatly descends into chaos with no one believing in the game plan or having any confidence.

Donegal and Armagh are both very well organised and although their style of football is terrible to watch, it's effective. We are going to struggle badly to break down a packed Sligo defence because when we should have been working on combination moves with overlaps- we were wasting out time hitting long balls into space that was a total illusion as it was nver going to be there come c/ship.

O Halloran has a very bad dose of the Heebie-Jeebies and it's affecting the whole team - he can't go short or hit a half-back and his only play is long into a crowded middle and we are terrible at winning breaking ball.

I'm sick to the pit of my stomach at the prospect of what lies ahead with this guy in charge - I know he means well and is putting in time and effort but to use an analogy like TTM1 - it's like spending lots of time at the driving range but if your swing has major flaws, you'll never improve and only get worse - that's the way it is with Cork and Cubby's flawed tactics.

thinkstoomuch1

I would totally agree regards Donegal Gary.
It may be Ugly their style,but Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.Cork should take note and play that Donegal match over and over again and the system i said of having two sweepers to beat Mayo earlier , I'm now convinced it is our only hope against Mayo after watching the Ulster final.

We must Deny Mayo Space.Defend in numbers and attack at pace,hence Kelly,Collins,Rourke,Kerrigan are vital to Cork.
We should useDinneens Power like they use Magee.Stop Mayo running at us.

Loughrey is no Karl Lacey not even close but allow him play a similar role.A potent weapon going forward if used right.

Frustrate Mayo,over and over again as they dont have forwards and they may self destruct up front.Monaghan couldnt score at distance and Mayo bar possibly o connor are the same.

I dont mind ugly as long its effective.Couinhan style was awful as it got little from huge rescources and when we attacked it was laboured and clustered bodies.

Donegal style is different in the defence is is off putting for some with 12 behind a ball ,but there use of the full width of the ptich in kickpassing at width and running a fit Monaghan all over the place meant Monaghan had no possesion and were out on their feet from running and constantly have no ball,is admirable.They retain possesion at all costs and only go for a score when they have a real chance.

An old kerry team were never put in the same scenario by Cork when Cork should have defended in numbers and set the tempo.We had the forwards v Kerry.Kerry controlled the tempo at will.Cork were chasing shdaows.

IF Donegal can win An Ulster title and all ireland with just two marquee forwards in Mcfadden and Murphy, Cork with O Neill and Hurley as an example could do the same at least be competive.You.need a huge work ethic and belief and focus and a certain type of player to make it work as a tired flat Donegal showed without it last year how its easily beaten by Mayo.Those ingredients come from the Manager down and thats where our problem may lie.Cork U21s beat Kerry in Tralee by playing O sullivan and Kiely in deep roles and a two man full forward line.

The players believe in Mcguinness,Do the Cork lads truly believe in.Cuthbhert is a valid question to ask.Kerry have played much deeper as they know it is their best hope.And they are tradionalists.But also more importantly They are realists and evolve.

Cork have better forwards on the field and bench than Mayo and could win if they replicated Donegal today.Some may say its awful but after suffering under Counihans slow,laboured style, and Cuthbherts total ignornance and naivety to the art of defending i would take Donegals ultra defensive style with fast counter attacking against Mayo any day than the shambles of the last 3 games,as at least we would be competitve.

Next year we could change it a bit.Monaghan or Donegal would have beaten Cork as theres a hardness in them and steel in them.I would actually think all of the likey quater finaists would beat Cork.We were never a top 4 team ,i always feared.But were not as bad as we are being made look either.To put down the Kerry game as just a bad day at the office would be wrong,naive and a recipe for Dissaster.

Meath despite that huge beating would also beat us.They at least played fot a half ,and werent 9 points poorer at half time.Unlike Cork they also are missing a few key players.
You don't have to like Mcguiness but hes a winner and he has a system that is hard to break down in fairness to him.He is wise enough not to take Dublin on 15 v 15 as he knows Dublin would blow them away.

And he has to my suprise added new life to old team.He is getting every inch out of he's team unlike Cork with a lot of young talents.

One key point today also that would be of interest to Cork is in the Dublin game around the 9th miniute Paddy O Rourke who has a solid kickout kicked the ball staight out over the line.The Commenator who could see what we couldnt watching tv said there was no Meath Runners for it not one single one.The point is its easy to blame Ken 100 per cent when its not all he's fault.Cork in training had a plan but in games it is non existant most times

O Rourke was well able to kick out when he runners and targets.Cluxton done likewise.Cluxton would be made look poor if he was playing for Cork.Ken yes has work to do,he should stay away from giving interviews for the next few weeks.

Cork should close training to the public and the media yes must be facilated but designate just two lads like Shields and Donnacha to give interviews,they are the most expierenced.

The rest must have no side shows or distractions,total focus now is imperative. Fintan Gould gave an interview thursday ,imo with hes unconvincing perferomances hes better off to stay away from such duties.He has enough to focus on .Do it on the field first.We needs less talk and more action from Cuthbhert and company.

One other point also is if Cleary was given the job Ned English would have been on Clearys set up.Now that would have been ideal as Cleary has attacking mindset and English knows how to do a blanket defence.Cork would have a lovely mix.Look at Clyda,ultra defensive they have tweaked and become more attack minded this year.

Dublin beat Kildare and play Cork.in the Minor quater final.A daunting task to play a team that has got 9 goals in the last two games.

Gary Neville

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

I would totally agree regards Donegal Gary.
It may be Ugly their style,but Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.Cork should take note and play that Donegal match over and over again and the system i said of having two sweepers to beat Mayo earlier , I'm now convinced it is our only hope against Mayo after watching the Ulster final.

We must Deny Mayo Space.Defend in numbers and attack at pace,hence Kelly,Collins,Rourke,Kerrigan are vital to Cork.
We should useDinneens Power like they use Magee.Stop Mayo running at us.

Loughrey is no Karl Lacey not even close but allow him play a similar role.A potent weapon going forward if used right.

Frustrate Mayo,over and over again as they dont have forwards and they may self destruct up front.Monaghan couldnt score at distance and Mayo bar possibly o connor are the same.

I dont mind ugly as long its effective.Couinhan style was awful as it got little from huge rescources and when we attacked it was laboured and clustered bodies.

The players believe in Mcguinness,Do the Cork lads truly believe in.Cuthbhert is a valid question to ask.Kerry have played much deeper as they know it is their best hope.And they are tradionalists.But also more importantly They are realists and evolve.

Next year we could change it a bit.Monaghan or Donegal would have beaten Cork as theres a hardness in them and steel in them.I would actually think all of the likey quater finaists would beat Cork.We were never a top 4 team ,i always feared.But were not as bad as we are being made look either.To put down the Kerry game as just a bad day at the office would be wrong,naive and a recipe for Dissaster.

Meath despite that huge beating would also beat us.They at least played fot a half ,and werent 9 points poorer at half time.Unlike Cork they also are missing a few key players.
You don't have to like Mcguiness but hes a winner and he has a system that is hard to break down in fairness to him.He is wise enough not to take Dublin on 15 v 15 as he knows Dublin would blow them away.

And he has to my suprise added new life to old team.He is getting every inch out of he's team unlike Cork with a lot of young talents.

One key point today also that would be of interest to Cork is in the Dublin game around the 9th miniute Paddy O Rourke who has a solid kickout kicked the ball staight out over the line.The Commenator who could see what we couldnt watching tv said there was no Meath Runners for it not one single one.The point is its easy to blame Ken 100 per cent when its not all he's fault.Cork in training had a plan but in games it is non existant most times

O Rourke was well able to kick out when he runners and targets.Cluxton done likewise.Cluxton would be made look poor if he was playing for Cork.Ken yes has work to do,he should stay away from giving interviews for the next few weeks.

Cork should close training to the public and the media yes must be facilated but designate just two lads like Shields and Donnacha to give interviews,they are the most expierenced.

Dublin beat Kildare and play Cork.in the Minor quater final.A daunting task to play a team that has got 9 goals in the last two games.

Cubby was convinced that he was a brilliant strategist who could correct the tactical faults of the Counihan Era.

After the Tipp game, Cubby was still in Walter Mitty Mode - he thought that his plan was basically sound but the players didn't impliment it correctly ie they reverted to type.

You'd hope the penny has dropped after the Kerry Game but we don't know for sure.

The thing I'd disagree with you on TTM1 is wrt Ken O Halloran - Great shot stopper and that can often keep you in a game but we lose too much possession due to his poor kick-outs. Players will entually get the runs right but if the keeper can't kick accurately, it doesn't matter.

Even though it's very late to be trying new tactics - we've got to make the changes but I hope it's with Hanraan in goals.

thinkstoomuch1

A huge game Saturday in Tullamore for the Intermediates in an All Ireland Semi Final.
Its no suprise that Cork intermediates won Munster and have a real chance of an All ireland as they were a team i felt had a real chance of the Cork teams in 2014.

Liam Hayes is a top manager and id fancied at least a Munster title.They play next week ahead of the Senior footballers v sligo in Tullamore and they wont be a huge Cork crowd over the football being on Sky but at least there is going to be more than was in Cork for their Munster title.A superbly coached team.For those not going its on 103fm live.Galway are a potential banna skin in not much is known about them,it is their ist game and it could work with them or against them.Galway teams in Semi finals against Cork teams are always dangerous opponents,id rather play them in a final any day of the week.

Cork played Waterford in the replay thurles senior,yet the same day Hayes had team Cork wexford in a challenge in wexford.He had just one focus hes team,and the next game v Clare.That was he's world ,hes only priority.The Cork Jersey has real meaning to him, it has values that he holds dearly ,and if it is just intermediate he is reperesenting Cork Hurling.If this team is beaten it won't be for a lack of heart,hunger or preparation,it will simply be beaten only by a better team.The amount of Club games hes goes to is unreal.

At the Cork Clare u21 challenge in in Mallow in weather a dog would not go out in in March he was there with he's selectors watching players and always viewed u21 games and he is always at many club games east,west,you name it.He had a game v Avondu in Mallow lined up eveining but heavy rain cancelled it,but he made sure he got another game in to compensate for that game.There is a real direction with him.

Everyone buys in to him and hes dedication is immense and that ,that flows to the players so they gave as much as him off the field as well as on it.

A competiton that is seen as the poor relation he gives it 110 per cent commitment and focus.
Thats what you want in a Cork Manager.He's dedication,drive,focus and good record should mean hes get the chance at minor or u21 to involved as a selector in the Future years.He's lucky if over a thousand people go to these games yet beating waterford,Clare,with future young senior lads,a good tippereay team and if they beat Galway likely to play Kilkenny.

If he wins the All ireland,having beat Clare,waterford,Tipp,Galway,and Kilkenny he has done it the hard way.I had one Critisism in He had great servants like Tadhg Healy onthe team and going forward wasnt much good to the senior set up but he has freshened it up and got the Balance Right.

I would not have been a fan on Colm Spillane at half forward in id prefer him at the back but he made a shrewd move half way through the Waterford game bringing him as a sub and he turned the game for Cork.
The u21s are picking him on hes form there as a forward.However the u21 need him at full back more than the Intermediates.

Murphy,Barry,Spillane,Sugrue, are all young talents that hes grooming that these games will benfit them and hes getting the best out of Cronin and Michael Sullivan who imo should be on the senior panel and is better than Cian Mac at this stage as he works hard and has mobility and pace.

Peter O Brien he's really getting the best out of him but wont be a Senior player and Michael walsh has been good also.
Walsh was unlucky he did not get a senior run and imo would not be bad to stengthen the panel next year as he can play Midfield or half back.

Alan Frahill O Connor is back with Youghal and had a solid game for them.Bar injury i know he would have been watched by selectors.
Wouldnt be suprised if he was added to the panel.When you see Minors of last year in Austin Glesson,Colin Dunford,Mcdonald etc performing at Senior ,he could do worse than have Current minor Sean hayes as a sub.He is some lad to catch a ball.

Cormac Murphy is a huge loss if hes out and I would call up Leigh Desmond,he would be solid and theres a real cut and bite to him.Id rate him over Ross Cashman.
Does the suspension from u21 carry in to this game?or can he play.The set up have the advanaage of their game being ahead of the u21 game Wednesday.Last year they had a huge ask as two days after the u21 defeat had to go thurles and play and pushed tipp all the way .

Leigh won a Munster u21 in 2007 with Cork and was on the fringe if the Seniors but missed out over club commitments,he choosed another sport then for a bit.

Michael O Laoire had a brillant game for Naomh Abhan in the club against Ballinorra,he is in outstanding form for Club at midfield.He is worth a panel place at least and cant be anyworse than Andrew Sullivan and Gould and there is a fair chance he is a whole lot better.Hes kick passing and vision is superb.Simply must get a recall to the Panel.

Cork minor footballers play Dublin in thurles August 4th Bank Holiday before Kildare and Kerry in the Senior.Cork have to get their team right or they will like kildare against Kerry in the senior get a big beating.

Gary Neville

John Fogarty has an interview with Ronan McCarthy in today's Examiner.

Maybe Ronan is playing his cards close to his chest but the interview doesn't do much to inspire confidence.

He seems to be on a very similar theme to Cubby (after the Tipp) game and suggests that most of the starting 15 didn't play to a decent level against Kerry. That might be true but it seemed to me that it was mainly down to the fact that we were badly set-up with poor tactics and an inability on the side line to change things around when required. Kerry saw the need to change things and get the message through after 10 mins.

Obviously Ronan McCarthy can't name the few that in his opinion played to a decent level but in putting this our there, he's pointing the finger at every one of the starting 15.

I wonder will this kind of interview go down badly with players ?

D'Agger

Gary Neville wrote: »

John Fogarty has an interview with Ronan McCarthy in today's Examiner.

Maybe Ronan is playing his cards close to his chest but the interview doesn't do much to inspire confidence.

He seems to be on a very similar theme to Cubby (after the Tipp) game and suggests that most of the starting 15 didn't play to a decent level against Kerry. That might be true but it seemed to me that it was mainly down to the fact that we were badly set-up with poor tactics and an inability on the side line to change things around when required. Kerry saw the need to change things and get the message through after 10 mins.

Obviously Ronan McCarthy can't name the few that in his opinion played to a decent level but in putting this our there, he's pointing the finger at every one of the starting 15.

I wonder will this kind of interview go down badly with players ?

If it doesn't go down well with the players then it'd be down to them being in denial imo - tactics were a huge factor, absolutely, but those Cork players will know themselves that they played well within themselves and wilted when they needed to stand up and work to stem the tide.

That said, the Cork management should accept some of the blame and state that Kerry had their homework done and they were beaten tactically

Gary Neville

D'Agger wrote: »

If it doesn't go down well with the players then it'd be down to them being in denial imo - tactics were a huge factor, absolutely, but those Cork players will know themselves that they played well within themselves and wilted when they needed to stand up and work to stem the tide.

That said, the Cork management should accept some of the blame and state that Kerry had their homework done and they were beaten tactically

The game has evolved to such an extent that it's the team with the best tactics that will prevail rather than the team with the best players.

Kerry have a very astute management team led by FitzMaurice and O Neill - we have a group of novices at this level and that's the main reason for our worst defeat to Kerry since 1962 - It's not down to lack of effort or character from our players.

seventh7

Just to change the subject TTM how do you see the Minor premier county going now that its down to the last 16.

D'Agger

Gary Neville wrote: »

The game has evolved to such an extent that it's the team with the best tactics that will prevail rather than the team with the best players.

Kerry have a very astute management team led by FitzMaurice and O Neill - we have a group of novices at this level and that's the main reason for our worst defeat to Kerry since 1962 - It's not down to lack of effort or character from our players.

You're being too easy on the players I think - they looked completely devoid of hunger and when you take into account the occasion, Munster final, their last game in PUC....they left themselves down. The vast majority of the panel will know there's alot more in them than that.

You're right in saying that it's no longer about who has the best players, but there's been many days when hunger has gotten teams over the line, tactics are now a much bigger factor, but there are other factors that have to be taken into consideration. Cork were poor tactically but that alone isn't why they suffered their biggest defeat to Kerry since '62 imo

mossy464

Anyone know why there's no terrace tickets on sale for the hurling semi final on August 17th?

Cheers

citykat

mossy464 wrote: »

Anyone know why there's no terrace tickets on sale for the hurling semi final on August 17th?

Cheers

Presume they're trying to flog stand tickets first. Terrace will be open on the day.

slingerz

Some serious amount of changes for the Sligo game. Maguire parachuted into midfield, Sean Dineen on the bench. Hodnett, Colm O'Neill, Colm O'Driscoll and Collins all starting in the forwards. Brian O'Driscoll starting wing back, Shields also named at wing back

thinkstoomuch1

The Cork Senior Football team to play Sligo at 5pm on Saturday in Tullamore is as follows:
1. Ken O’Halloran (Bishopstown)
2. James Loughrey (Mallow)
3. Eoin Cadogan (Douglas)
4. Noel Galvin (Ballincollig)
5. Michael Shields (St. Finbarr’s – Captain)
6. Thomas Clancy (Clonakilty)
7. Brian O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCárthaigh)
8. Ian Maguire (St. Finbarr’s)
9. Aidan Walsh (Kanturk)
10. Paul Kerrigan (Nemo Rangers)
11. Mark Collins (Castlehaven)
12. Colm O’Driscoll (Tadhg MacCárthaigh)
13. Colm O’Neill (Ballyclough)
14. Brian Hurley (Castlehaven)
15. Donal Óg Hodnett (O’Donovan Rossa)

Subs
16. David Hanrahan (Douglas)
17. Damien Cahalane (Castlehaven)
18. Jamie O’Sullivan (Bishopstown)
19. Tomás Clancy (Fermoy)
20. Fintan Goold (Macroom)
21. Patrick Kelly (Ballincollig)
22. Daniel Goulding (Éire Óg)
23. Andrew O’Sullivan (Castletownbere)
24. Barry O’Driscoll (Nemo Rangers)
25. John O’Rourke (Carbery Rangers)
26. Sean Dineen (Castlehaven)

Brian Cuthbert and his selectors have made six changes since the defeat to Kerry. Brothers Brian and Colm O’Driscoll, Ian Maguire, Mark Collins, Colm O’Neill and Donal Óg Hodnett all come into the team, with Damien Cahalane, Fintan Goold, Patrick Kelly, Daniel Goulding, Barry O’Driscoll and John O’Rourke on the bench.

Donncha O'Connor and Kevin Crowley were not considered due to injury.

thinkstoomuch1

That team is very worringly and hes picking a team thant cant start v Mayo as with Hodnett,Brian O Driscoll,and Maguire ,if they survive sligo a huge ask to make a Croker Debut against a battle hardened Mayo.

Dinnen should have started as unlike the superb talent in Maguire,he has Senior Club in Cork Munster behind him for a number of seasons at the Coal Face in Midfield..What happens if Maguire struggles.

We need composure and expierence at half back he starts Brian O Driscoll.

Loughrey at corner back is a woeful call in he struggles to defend yet like Counihan with Kissane he throws him at corner back.What is their obession with playing half backs at Corner back.
He trys to solve one problem by taking shields to centre back yet it is Rob Peter to pay Paul.
One step forward ten steps back imon

Colm O Driscoll is hard and brave but lacks the pace and guile of O Rourke.No Kelly in the team.
Is he playing a blanket.I doubt it and if so this team is not the best to execute it.

This is a poor team,in huge pressure on talented rookies but they will have to be changes for Mayo which means we have no settled team in key aeras with real confidence,cohesion and belief facing in to the game.

I now have a really fear with the Sligo game and i have little faith management know what there doing.Very worrying times For Cork football.
That is a strange selection to say the least.
Some Bafflings calls.

rebel girl 15

Couple of question - where did Ian Maguire come from, never heard his name before (though that could be not keeping up to date with the panel)/ Loughrey corner back? Lot of unknown names, big pressure on them to deliver!!

Unless there is a change of tactics, players will revert to what they normally do, slow ponderous build up - Shields is a huge culprit of this, takes way too much out of the ball at times, and goes backwards - watched him with Cork and UCC.

I'd have Kelly in my team every time, love him as a player, able to get his head up and kick pass well into O Neill and Hurley, would have liked to have seen Goulding there as well, but Hodnett is a fine player. They will have to be in front of their men to get the ball, working hard for it (hold on, remember posting this a few years ago as well!!)

I'll be home to watch it

Don't see why Cahalane would be dropped - no full back line would have coped with the lack of protection they were getting - Cahalane into the corner, Loughrey out to half back instead of O Driscoll for me

thinkstoomuch1

That interview was really worringly as it stems imo like all the other interviews so far,a refusal to accept management made a shambles of the tactics and its like it was not their fault but purely the players.

Cuthbhert for a man that loved to talk is now gone quiet and thats grand as its time for action now, but it seems to me he has others singing from hes hymn sheet while he shelters from the critisim in the background

It is in my view managements mention of the meath kerry game 2001 trying to paint a flawed picture that it was a one off and dont worry.Who are they trying to fool.The usual these things happen ,its sport etc.

If he wants to use that Meath hammering of Kerry he would do well to remember that that games showed up the one weakness that haunted Kerry in 2002,2005,and 2008 in any time they met hard,teak tough teams that werent just nice footballers in Armagh and Tyrone twice ,they were beaten as great as kerry were.They seems to miss the point Why Kerry lost ,just why Cork did.There is always a reason imo when a team gets hammered.

That Galway team that won had a proven 3 time all ireland finalist manager in John O Mahony and he won in 98.That was a fine team.
Kerry were able to bounce back in they had a shrewd management team more so than us.

The management are way off in their perception of it was a great league imo.We struggled against an awful Kildare at home to win by a point,beat an average derry at home by a point,drew with Tyrone and beat a dire westmeath.I said it here if we had any away trips to the North we were in trouble.Games we won,some we could just of easily lost.You must judge every game at face value.

The real joke worry and i rate Mccarthy is managements taking that Kerry game was a great win.Everyone and i said it then could see kerry didnt give a monkies with that game.To me it cant be taken as anything bar a trip to kerry.Who are they trying to fool in using the kerry game as a box ticked.To me it was pure default in Kerry werent interestes in it.

Dublin in Croker in March i said then and agree was a valid and great win.Mayo and Dublin in the latter stages like Tipp in the championship exposed Cork badly yet management were brutally exposed for since day one in my greatest fears,tactical naivety, the zero abailtity to actually read a game in flow in running and by tonights teams even in hindsight after games they still cant and awful repeated tactial selections that were being repeated time and again.

If Management want to simarilse Cork with other teams at least be realistic and use Cork hurlers under Denis Walsh,a league final that flattered to decieve ,a ist round win by default against a Tipp team with little interest as it has been said since,yet waterford Exposed us,Then Kilkenny blew us away in a semi final after a win against a poor Antrim(this will be sligo the weekened)yet things rapidly got worse in 2011 and Cork were blown away by an average Galway in 2011 and yet Walsh thought he was the chosen one to.lead Cork Hurling in to a second term.

Imo thats scenario has real simarlies in we have a manager like walsh,that should never have got the senior job at all.Cork are going to throw Young debutants in to the team to save us.Talk about panic The last thing we needs is A denis walsh ,type thing ,throw Cian Mccarthy in as a starter v Kilkenny as a debut,he plays poorly as thrown in as a young lad at the deep end,and after 3o minutes then he is taken off.

The past expierences of our Board tell me Cuthbhert will indefintly despite poor results see a second term as in October 2012 after a woeful two years in terms of not pushing on from winning the all ireland(i mean beating kerry in kerry not League medals now) and remaining static in progression to the next level,Counihan got another two year term.

Worse again,there was no real debate,Bob ryan was all for a motion to rush through hes reappointnent between County board meetings(what was the panic and rush)and of Course the usual County boards supporters had no problem in backing such a motion,notably one Delegate who was full of support for it.At least and thankfully and immense credit due that last year Counihan finally resigned ,better late than never for The Greater good of Cork football.

It is unlikely even if results get worse Cuthbhert will resign or any review be taken by the County Board and I would not be one bit suprised if the usual talk of it being a tranistion,learning curve,we must see the development through,all the work and commitment management gave in their two years,that they were given another two year term.

As i said in October there was never a mininum standard of Perferomance set with the set up in that you fail to meet it ,yere gone even though there a new set up in year one.In every job you have a basic requirment that must be met or you dont make it past the Probation.Cork could do well to follow similar traits.

davegrohl48

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Couple of question - where did Ian Maguire come from, never heard his name before (though that could be not keeping up to date with the panel)/ Loughrey corner back? Lot of unknown names, big pressure on them to deliver!!

Unless there is a change of tactics, players will revert to what they normally do, slow ponderous build up - Shields is a huge culprit of this, takes way too much out of the ball at times, and goes backwards - watched him with Cork and UCC.

I'd have Kelly in my team every time, love him as a player, able to get his head up and kick pass well into O Neill and Hurley, would have liked to have seen Goulding there as well, but Hodnett is a fine player. They will have to be in front of their men to get the ball, working hard for it (hold on, remember posting this a few years ago as well!!)

I'll be home to watch it

Don't see why Cahalane would be dropped - no full back line would have coped with the lack of protection they were getting - Cahalane into the corner, Loughrey out to half back instead of O Driscoll for me

Does look like a panicky selection. Would also have Kelly every time n run him at the Sligo half backline. He's a player you'd be shocked if he didn't play well against Sligo.
Loughrey isn't quick or agile enough for corner back.
Sligo now I think have a chance in this game. Pick a runner on Shields n sub the runner on the 50 min mark. Target Loughrey in the corner for goal chances with a two man full forward line. Kerry dominated midfield in the Munster final. It might not have been necessary to make all these changes. More like change tactics to commit more men to the middle third and kickout accuracy (don't know enough about Cork sub goalies current form).

ciarriaithuaidh

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Couple of question - where did Ian Maguire come from, never heard his name before (though that could be not keeping up to date with the panel)/ Loughrey corner back? Lot of unknown names, big pressure on them to deliver!!

Unless there is a change of tactics, players will revert to what they normally do, slow ponderous build up - Shields is a huge culprit of this, takes way too much out of the ball at times, and goes backwards - watched him with Cork and UCC.

I'd have Kelly in my team every time, love him as a player, able to get his head up and kick pass well into O Neill and Hurley, would have liked to have seen Goulding there as well, but Hodnett is a fine player. They will have to be in front of their men to get the ball, working hard for it (hold on, remember posting this a few years ago as well!!)

I'll be home to watch it

Don't see why Cahalane would be dropped - no full back line would have coped with the lack of protection they were getting - Cahalane into the corner, Loughrey out to half back instead of O Driscoll for me

Never heard of Maguire before?!

Midfield for Cork 21s last 2 years, midfield for UCC Sigerson champions this year..

Also Cahalane has never played corner back in his life. He is a half decent centre back but never gets played there with Cork for some reason.

thinkstoomuch1

Ian Maguire is a superb talent,st finbarrs,a hurler also.He is fast strong,mobile,and can kickpass.

Superb for ucc in the Sigerson and was superb against quality opponents in Mccauley etc.He is u21 the last two years,one when he was a minor and u21 next year.He is going to make it.

However to put him up against O shea and Jason Gibbins Mayo in Croker in a second game with no.league or much senior club games in a team deviod of confidence is a huge and unfair ask.

When Seamus Harnedy the hurler was thrown in hurling he was great however He had games in Gaelic grounds and thurles,Corks second home.
He also had senior club games with ucc and was older and was in a team that despite losses had a real charcther and spirirt and belief in jbm,and jbm and Crowley and Cunninghan were proven all ireland winning coaches.This set up is not.

Maguire i hope has a blinder and is a huge talent but its unfair imo to put him in at the deep end.
I said the time to blood him was Tipp in Cork.
What must sean Dinneen be thinking.He is flying in training and in a challenge game.If it is over being a later call up then its nonense as dual players are facilated.

Totally agree regards Kelly.He is elgant,brave,tackles like a 7 in rubgy and supreme at the breakdown,composed a leader and is like Roy Keane,huge understanding of a game and always does the simple pass so well but he has a real width and vision and is ideal at ball retention and a possesion game imo.

JD1984

No win situation for Cuthbert here really. If he didn't make the changes people would be giving out and now that he has, people are still giving out.
Has Paddy Kelly played a good game this year? Granted he was played out of position a lot but he was utterly cat against Kerry?
Maguire has been exemplary for club, college and county for the last year or two and definitely deserves a chance. He did a grand job against MD McAuley when UCC played Maynooth so I'm sure he won't be scared of going up against Sligo or Mayo afterwards should they be there.
Colm O'Driscoll was exactly what Cork needed in the first half v Kerry to win the breaks that Cork were simply not competing for. Clancy is another player who must prove himself at centre-back, especially when there are an array of players who can play there.
They can't be worse than the last day and hopefully they wake up on Saturday after two lazy performances.