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Those damn cyclists again!

Irishcrx

I'll probably get bashed by the fitness fanatics on here , but I have a serious pain my ass with cyclist entitlement when I'm driving to work in the morning. Twice in the last week I've been forced to swerve into an outer lane and nearly collide with another car because someone was cycling to far on the inside on the road , they ask all motorists to be aware of cyclists and that's fine, but cyclists also need to be aware of motorists and the danger they are causing in busy morning periods.

It's also grinds my gears that they slow down my trip into work by 5-10 minutes everyday by taking up the lanes , slowing down traffic , slowing down crossing lanes and they have free use of the roads while the rest of us have to pay for them.

Surely with the ammount of cyclists now they should be paying something to use the public roads even a flat fee of €30 a year or something. Don't even get me started on breaking red lights or cycling out in front of cars , I know there's laws taking action against this now but from what I see it hasn't really stopped it.

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jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

I have no idea what the fuck you're trying say.

But, if you're not sure what a bicycle is, then you probably shouldn't be allowed on the road.

'Tis true, biy - the Lord help me, I'm just not that bright! :pac::pac::pac:

CramCycle

cournioni wrote: »

Motor drivers can be arseholes too I agree, but I have never seen any motorist force two lanes of traffic to break while on a green like these cyclists did. Astonishing.

I do, but I suppose that the issue with anecdoetal stories, just because I see it regularly, does not make it a statistically regular event, as with your story.

I suppose the only way to do it would be to look at the stats (which are probably not much better as everyone agrees enforcement is horrific in regards road traffic law in Ireland), what are the volume of serious RTAs caused by the different groups, what are the costs involved, what are the number of deaths, who was designated to be at fault by investigators.

Tony EH

jimgoose wrote: »

Are you speaking to me? I'm not quite sure what it is, and I don't use them. It seems to be to be largely a C-programming declaration-follows-use sort of setup. But regardless, it doesn't matter what I think, the EU has seen fit to confer the "legal status of vehicles" upon them, whatever that means, so there you are. :cool:

I have no idea what the fuck you're trying say.

But, if you're not sure what a bicycle is, then you probably shouldn't be allowed on the road.

Jawgap

SeanW wrote: »

This is why cyclists should be regulated. I encounter this sort of thing on a routine basis as a pedestrian as well.

Seriously....? Again.....?

Drivers & vehicles are regulated and it doesn't stop the muppetry..........but if the regulation is extended to cycling it will?

magicbastarder

CramCycle wrote: »

Other than volume in Dublin

from a statistic i heard about ten years ago relating to rush hour traffic in dublin, for every 100 cars on the road, there were 118 occupants.
that's enough traffic to take up over a third of a mile of road, for an occupancy less than two buses.

Jawgap

OldNotWIse wrote: »

And must they also follow the rules of the road the same as drivers?
Seems that everybody knows their rights but not their responsibilities!

.......and as usual drivers / road users seem not to know that the RotR are not the law of the land, but you knew that anyway - sure haven't you read them,

Your obligation (including as a cyclist) is to follow Road Traffic Legislation

SeanW

cournioni wrote: »

Driving on my way home last night at traffic lights at a T-Junction on a one way two laned street (one going left, one right onto a two way street). I waited as usual at the lights, turning right onto the two way street. Light turns green and two cyclists (both without helmets) went straight through their red light and into my path. I lay into the horn, one of the cyclists looked visibly shook and the other laughed while both of then cycled across two lanes of traffic who obviously had the right of way.

Infuriating.

This is why cyclists should be regulated. I encounter this sort of thing on a routine basis as a pedestrian as well.

magicbastarder

in terms of overtaking, even if the cyclists are cycling three abreast (only allowed if the outer one is performing an overtaking manouevre); as long as they are all in the one lane, it does not affect your ability to safely overtake, as compared to there being two cyclists side by sde.

CramCycle

blacklilly wrote: »

I read a post here yesterday (I can't remeber the poster) but basically they were saying that the vast majority of times traffic is moving slowly or you're being delayed, it's due to other Vehicles not cyclists.

This got me thinking, I don't become impatient with cyclists, I know many drivers that do, I don't think it's very logical to be impatient with them, unless of course they're doing something stupid.

Anyway, yesterday on my travel home, all but one slow down or delay was due to other vehicles, I've never really paid particular attention to it before tbh although I have come acorss some incredibly bad drivers. It was just interesting to note it.

Other than volume in Dublin, the other largest delayer to motor vehicles are the red light delay we have that I have not seen in any other country that seems to encourage red light running (watch the lights the next time, in other countries when one way goes red, the other goes green immediately, over here there is often a +2 second delay to facilitate RLJers), people sitting on yellow boxes, holding up crossing traffic leading to unnecessary traffic jams on arterial roads. The yellow boxes one is by far the worst, as one blocked junction over one light sequence can lead to a traffic jam that spreads back through the side road to the next parallel main road within a few minutes.

07Lapierre

missierex wrote: »

What I find most infuriating are the 'professional' cyclists - Those that head out on Saturdays and Sundays down the country, dressed head- to- toe in luminous lycra. The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems, and nothing will do other than cycle three abreast, and ten cyclists deep making it impossible to overtake them safely...GRRRRRR :mad:

Agree, This is illegal and very annoying, BUT if its not safe to overtake, don't do it. you'll only endanger yourself, the cyclists and any oncoming traffic.

cournioni

CramCycle wrote: »

I worked nights for 12 years, every night I would see taxis fly through red lights in the middle of the night even though I had a green and a light as bright as a motorcycles on my bike, or even when I was driving.

Motor drivers can be arseholes too I agree, but I have never seen any motorist force two lanes of traffic to break while on a green like these cyclists did. Astonishing.

Thargor

missierex wrote: »

What I find most infuriating are the 'professional' cyclists - Those that head out on Saturdays and Sundays down the country, dressed head- to- toe in luminous lycra. The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems, and nothing will do other than cycle three abreast, and ten cyclists deep making it impossible to overtake them safely...GRRRRRR :mad:

What is the problem with lycra? If you'd ever put 5 minutes of effort on a bike you'd see why other materials arent up to the job, heat and moisture removal being the main factors along with friction/chafing. What possible problem could you have with what another person chooses to wear anyway?

Its already been explained about 5 times in this thread that the hard shoulders (and most of the cycle lanes) are unusable, they're full of years worth of debris and drains etc.

magicbastarder

missierex wrote: »

The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems

you obviously haven't been reading the thread.

Jawgap

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah didn't think about that. Guess it must have been a summer camp or something. Momma bear and cubs going from A(unknown place) to B (unknown place) at 08:20 - better? In any event, I dont think their destination was the main focus of my post - was it?

Well, you seem to have made on assumption (school) that's been demonstrated to be 'inaccurate' - so I suppose the rest of your post can be taken at face value.

jimgoose wrote: »

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

Even then, it's still quicker around the city on a bike than in a car, esp as cars / vehicles are confined to 30 km/hr in the city centre and bikes are not.

jimgoose wrote: »

That's a rather large "If"! :pac:

They don't crack down on it anything like enough.

It isn't compulsory though. It should be.

Then stay off the carriageway. Again, it should be.

Some people have a somewhat strange definition of "fun". :pac:

Most cyclists are law abiding - change the laws and they'll abide by them. As things stand, there is a requirement for lights - most cyclists observe it, just as most drivers observe the law regarding roadworthy cars.

Enforcement is a matter for AGS - I have no problem with their being a lot more enforcement of existing laws around lights, cycling on the pavement, red light jumping etc and I reckon most cyclists wouldn't be bothered either - cyclists, as well as other road users, find RLJing etc to be dangerous and annoying.

SeanW wrote: »

I think you're going into "Strawman" territory here ...

Not really, you postulated one (of several) rather ridiculous idea that access to the road should be based on payment of what you described as 'road tax' - and the non-payment of said 'road tax' should exclude cyclists - in the spirit of 'exaggeration for illustration' it was pointed out to you that more than just cyclists use the roads that are paid for from the public purse.......however, you seem to have no truck with those users being excluded on the basis of non-payment, perhaps because they are not cyclists?

missierex

What I find most infuriating are the 'professional' cyclists - Those that head out on Saturdays and Sundays down the country, dressed head- to- toe in luminous lycra. The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems, and nothing will do other than cycle three abreast, and ten cyclists deep making it impossible to overtake them safely...GRRRRRR :mad:

jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

What? You don't think that a bicycle is a road vehicle?

Are you speaking to me? I'm not quite sure what it is, and I don't use them. It seems to be to be largely a C-programming declaration-follows-use sort of setup. But regardless, it doesn't matter what I think, the EU has seen fit to confer the "legal status of vehicles" upon them, whatever that means, so there you are. :cool:

jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

...All previous comparisons were to cars, where did the motorbikes come in, I imagine they are quicker than cyclists in many scenarios.

It's quite obvious that a two-wheeler is going to be quicker around a city-centre than a car. All I'm saying is that some of the speed advantage of bicycles derives from certain, <harrumph> unorthodox practices.

CramCycle

OldNotWIse wrote: »

And her adult sized bike?

jimgoose wrote: »

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

I observe lights, still faster than a car in rush hour traffic, faster than a bus too, often get delayed by buses moving slowly on the Donnybrook Road, I tend to sit in traffic though rather than give out about them as they have as much right as me to be there. I solve the issue of the delay by leaving my house earlier, simples.

They don't crack down on it anything like enough.

I often get beeped out of it for stopping on red as the car behind me felt that they should have been allowed run the light like the cars in front of me. Donnybrook junction is a comedy of errors all day long with this, Garda station just up the road, there is never a crack down, I often see a squad car in the traffic blissfully ignoring the law breaking. In the last two weeks I have seen every form of road user break the lights there, pedestrian, cyclists, car, van, bus. If they want a crack down, its not hard, motor vechicles are easily identifiable and cameras on the traffic lights can be used to track cyclists and peds, creatures of habit, its likely that the law breaker uses the same route regularly, get a picture of routine offenders, pull them off their bike, not hard done.

It isn't compulsory though. It should be.

In your opinon, the effect it would have on people cycling (lowering public health), the cost of administration, the fact that it is unnecessary due to the fact that the damage caused by cyclists in accidents is significantly lower and usually more to themselves than the other party.

cournioni wrote: »

Driving on my way home last night at traffic lights at a T-Junction on a one way two laned street (one going left, one right onto a two way street). I waited as usual at the lights to turn right onto the two way street. Light turns green and two cyclists (both without helmets) went straight through their red light. I lay into the horn, one of the cyclists looked visibly shook and the other laughed while both of then cycled across two lanes of traffic who obviously had the right of way.

Infuriating.

I worked nights for 12 years, every night I would see taxis fly through red lights in the middle of the night even though I had a green and a light as bright as a motorcycles on my bike, or even when I was driving.

jimgoose wrote: »

The point, as you well know, is answered, and the answer is that a bicycle is no quicker than a motorcycle in an urban setting when the pedaller plays by the same rules as everyone else.

All previous comparisons were to cars, where did the motorbikes come in, I imagine they are quicker than cyclists in many scenarios.

07Lapierre

OldNotWIse wrote: »

And must they also follow the rules of the road the same as drivers?

Yes they do..but gob****es learn to cycle before they learn to drive.

blacklilly

I read a post here yesterday (I can't remeber the poster) but basically they were saying that the vast majority of times traffic is moving slowly or you're being delayed, it's due to other Vehicles not cyclists.

This got me thinking, I don't become impatient with cyclists, I know many drivers that do, I don't think it's very logical to be impatient with them, unless of course they're doing something stupid.

Anyway, yesterday on my travel home, all but one slow down or delay was due to other vehicles, I've never really paid particular attention to it before tbh although I have come acorss some incredibly bad drivers. It was just interesting to note it.

Tony EH

07Lapierre wrote: »

Personally i have no problem with cyclists having to be insured/registered.

I DO have problem with, as I don't want to have to pay for another thing that I don't want or need.

OldNotWIse

PrzemoF wrote: »

OP, you admit that you tried to dangerously overtake another vehicle on the road and you're complaining about it??

[...] the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Under that treaty, bicycles have the legal status of vehicles, and cyclists enjoy the legal status of vehicle operators. [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law

And must they also follow the rules of the road the same as drivers?
Seems that everybody knows their rights but not their responsibilities!

PrzemoF

OP, you admit that you tried to dangerously overtake another vehicle on the road and you're complaining about it??

[...] the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Under that treaty, bicycles have the legal status of vehicles, and cyclists enjoy the legal status of vehicle operators. [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law

07Lapierre

Personally i have no problem with cyclists having to be insured/registered.

If we have to display Number plates, I just hope they look like this: http://performancebikeblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/dsc_0032.jpg

How such a system is enforced is another story though.

Tony EH

What? You don't think that a bicycle is a road vehicle?

jimgoose

It occurs to me that what we're looking at here is largely an issue of catechism, the Articles of Faith, if you will. Do cyclists consider themselves a sort of mechanised pedestrian, or a sort of road-vehicle sans an external power source? Or could it be, both as and when it be playsin' 'em?? :pac::pac::pac:

SeanW

Jawgap wrote: »

There are kids, at least 6 of them playing football on the road outside my house at the moment - how much should they be charged?

And as for yer wan who pushes that baby trolley thing around with her sprogs in it - how much should they be charged when they walk by this even? That yolk must have at least 8 wheels on it!!!!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We need a Hoof Tax also, always see horses out on the roads, wrecking the tarmac our Motor Tax paid for with those metal horse shoes! Not to mention the tonnes of sh1t! :pac:

I think you're going into "Strawman" territory here ...

jimgoose

Thargor wrote: »

Why not answer the point instead of ducking it in such a lame way though, bikes are faster on dublin streets than cars, they'd be even faster if it wasnt for cars slowing them down.

The point, as you well know, is answered, and the answer is that a bicycle is no quicker than a motorcycle in an urban setting when the pedaller plays by the same rules as everyone else.

cournioni

Driving on my way home last night at traffic lights at a T-Junction on a one way two laned street (one going left, one right onto a two way street). I waited as usual at the lights, turning right onto the two way street. Light turns green and two cyclists (both without helmets) went straight through their red light and into my path. I lay into the horn, one of the cyclists looked visibly shook and the other laughed while both of then cycled across two lanes of traffic who obviously had the right of way.

Infuriating.

Thargor

jimgoose wrote: »

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

Why not answer the point instead of ducking it in such a lame way though, bikes are faster on dublin streets than cars, they'd be even faster if it wasnt for cars slowing them down.