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Those damn cyclists again!

Irishcrx

I'll probably get bashed by the fitness fanatics on here , but I have a serious pain my ass with cyclist entitlement when I'm driving to work in the morning. Twice in the last week I've been forced to swerve into an outer lane and nearly collide with another car because someone was cycling to far on the inside on the road , they ask all motorists to be aware of cyclists and that's fine, but cyclists also need to be aware of motorists and the danger they are causing in busy morning periods.

It's also grinds my gears that they slow down my trip into work by 5-10 minutes everyday by taking up the lanes , slowing down traffic , slowing down crossing lanes and they have free use of the roads while the rest of us have to pay for them.

Surely with the ammount of cyclists now they should be paying something to use the public roads even a flat fee of €30 a year or something. Don't even get me started on breaking red lights or cycling out in front of cars , I know there's laws taking action against this now but from what I see it hasn't really stopped it.

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jimgoose

07Lapierre wrote: »

No. Probably one of these:
Perfectly safe.

http://www.sustainablecitiesnet.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/firstphoto.jpg

Frankly I should prefer to be perambulated in a wheelbarrow pushed by an LSD-frenzied orang-utan than in such a thing. But to each their own. :pac::pac::pac:

Jawgap

CramCycle wrote: »

Its like the person on the van who I seen lambasting a mother and child on a cargo bike for holding them up (she was in the bike lane). They were coming through a junction, the delay was approximately 2.5 seconds before the lane widened but they decided to slow up, then scream and shout at the mother, finally they raced of to catch traffic less than 25meters up the road, which they would have reached earlier had they not decided to verbally assault a mother and child for no reason.

...

Drove this morning.......but at one point was overtaken by an Avensis who went over the continuous white line and through a hatched area.......to get to the traffic jam ahead a few seconds before he otherwise would have :rolleyes:

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah, they're all perfect. Poor poor cyclists. Never break red lights. Never almost kill people at pedestrian crossings as the fly through on red.

Edit: I saw a woman ferrying her entire progeny to school a few mornings ago. She was cycling and had one child in a seat on the back, another resemled ET in a fuucking basket at the front, and a kid about 7 or 8 cycling behind her - all on the footpath Out of Momma Bear's way!

Really, to school in July??

Poor feckers - what school is open in July.......

CramCycle

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah, they're all perfect. Poor poor cyclists. Never break red lights. Never almost kill people at pedestrian crossings as the fly through on red.

In my 15 years cycling in Dublin, I have seen quite a few near misses with cyclists and pedestrians, 2 actual collisions, both ended up with the cyclist (who was at fault in only one of them) in an ambulance. I have seen many near misses with cars and pedestrians, one with a pedestrain so drunk he stumbled away after stepping out in front of the car, but several more where an ambulance had to be called.

Point being, nothing to do with cyclists or motorists, problem is a small subset of people who don't pay attention.

I saw a woman ferrying her entire progeny to school a few mornings ago. She was cycling and had one child in a seat on the back, another resemled ET in a fuucking basket at the front, and a kid about 7 or 8 cycling behind her - all on the footpath Out of Momma Bear's way!

Children under the age of 12 are allowed on the footpath for their own safety as it is realised they might not have the sense to interact with traffic and are small enough not to do any damage to pedestrians. I can't imagine they were bombing it along, and considering the behaviour of some road users on the road, I can't say I blame her.

OldNotWIse

Jawgap wrote: »

Drove this morning.......but at one point was overtaken by an Avensis who went over the continuous white line and through a hatched area.......to get to the traffic jam ahead a few seconds before he otherwise would have :rolleyes:

Really, to school in July??

Poor feckers - what school is open in July.......

Yeah didn't think about that. Guess it must have been a summer camp or something. Momma bear and cubs going from A(unknown place) to B (unknown place) at 08:20 - better? In any event, I dont think their destination was the main focus of my post - was it?

OldNotWIse

CramCycle wrote: »

In my 15 years cycling in Dublin, I have seen quite a few near misses with cyclists and pedestrians, 2 actual collisions, both ended up with the cyclist (who was at fault in only one of them) in an ambulance. I have seen many near misses with cars and pedestrians, one with a pedestrain so drunk he stumbled away after stepping out in front of the car, but several more where an ambulance had to be called.

Point being, nothing to do with cyclists or motorists, problem is a small subset of people who don't pay attention.

Children under the age of 12 are allowed on the footpath for their own safety as it is realised they might not have the sense to interact with traffic and are small enough not to do any damage to pedestrians. I can't imagine they were bombing it along, and considering the behaviour of some road users on the road, I can't say I blame her.

And her adult sized bike?

jimgoose

Jawgap wrote: »

Slow? not around the city.

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

Jawgap wrote: »

Erratic? not if handled with a modicum of competence - plus they're gyroscopically and centrifugally stabilised at speed.

That's a rather large "If"! :pac:

Jawgap wrote: »

Unlit? some are, but the Guards crack down on it, just like they do on those one-eyed wonder cas

They don't crack down on it anything like enough.

Jawgap wrote: »

Uninsured? Aside from Cycling Ireland insurance, a lot, if not most household policies, confer third party protection on you when you're on the bike

It isn't compulsory though. It should be.

Jawgap wrote: »

Unregistered? There's no requirement

Then stay off the carriageway. Again, it should be.

Jawgap wrote: »

Child's toy? Well yes - it's fun, its keep people occupied and users come back for more. some even cost more than cars, but like all good toys you can get perfectly serviceable versions that are cheap and useful - and have pretty much zero running costs.

Some people have a somewhat strange definition of "fun". :pac:

bmwguy

I cycle to work every day but I also pay motor tax of €1080 a year on a 2.5 engine so I definitely pay to be there. OP point invalid.

mal1

elchupanebrey wrote: »

New forum request "Cyclists v Motorists"

New forum request "Motorists that cycle v Motorists that don't"

Thargor

jimgoose wrote: »

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

Why not answer the point instead of ducking it in such a lame way though, bikes are faster on dublin streets than cars, they'd be even faster if it wasnt for cars slowing them down.

cournioni

Driving on my way home last night at traffic lights at a T-Junction on a one way two laned street (one going left, one right onto a two way street). I waited as usual at the lights, turning right onto the two way street. Light turns green and two cyclists (both without helmets) went straight through their red light and into my path. I lay into the horn, one of the cyclists looked visibly shook and the other laughed while both of then cycled across two lanes of traffic who obviously had the right of way.

Infuriating.

jimgoose

Thargor wrote: »

Why not answer the point instead of ducking it in such a lame way though, bikes are faster on dublin streets than cars, they'd be even faster if it wasnt for cars slowing them down.

The point, as you well know, is answered, and the answer is that a bicycle is no quicker than a motorcycle in an urban setting when the pedaller plays by the same rules as everyone else.

SeanW

Jawgap wrote: »

There are kids, at least 6 of them playing football on the road outside my house at the moment - how much should they be charged?

And as for yer wan who pushes that baby trolley thing around with her sprogs in it - how much should they be charged when they walk by this even? That yolk must have at least 8 wheels on it!!!!

Tenzor07 wrote: »

We need a Hoof Tax also, always see horses out on the roads, wrecking the tarmac our Motor Tax paid for with those metal horse shoes! Not to mention the tonnes of sh1t! :pac:

I think you're going into "Strawman" territory here ...

jimgoose

It occurs to me that what we're looking at here is largely an issue of catechism, the Articles of Faith, if you will. Do cyclists consider themselves a sort of mechanised pedestrian, or a sort of road-vehicle sans an external power source? Or could it be, both as and when it be playsin' 'em?? :pac::pac::pac:

Tony EH

What? You don't think that a bicycle is a road vehicle?

07Lapierre

Personally i have no problem with cyclists having to be insured/registered.

If we have to display Number plates, I just hope they look like this: http://performancebikeblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/dsc_0032.jpg

How such a system is enforced is another story though.

PrzemoF

OP, you admit that you tried to dangerously overtake another vehicle on the road and you're complaining about it??

[...] the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Under that treaty, bicycles have the legal status of vehicles, and cyclists enjoy the legal status of vehicle operators. [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law

OldNotWIse

PrzemoF wrote: »

OP, you admit that you tried to dangerously overtake another vehicle on the road and you're complaining about it??

[...] the Vienna Convention on Road Traffic. Under that treaty, bicycles have the legal status of vehicles, and cyclists enjoy the legal status of vehicle operators. [...]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_law

And must they also follow the rules of the road the same as drivers?
Seems that everybody knows their rights but not their responsibilities!

Tony EH

07Lapierre wrote: »

Personally i have no problem with cyclists having to be insured/registered.

I DO have problem with, as I don't want to have to pay for another thing that I don't want or need.

blacklilly

I read a post here yesterday (I can't remeber the poster) but basically they were saying that the vast majority of times traffic is moving slowly or you're being delayed, it's due to other Vehicles not cyclists.

This got me thinking, I don't become impatient with cyclists, I know many drivers that do, I don't think it's very logical to be impatient with them, unless of course they're doing something stupid.

Anyway, yesterday on my travel home, all but one slow down or delay was due to other vehicles, I've never really paid particular attention to it before tbh although I have come acorss some incredibly bad drivers. It was just interesting to note it.

07Lapierre

OldNotWIse wrote: »

And must they also follow the rules of the road the same as drivers?

Yes they do..but gob****es learn to cycle before they learn to drive.

CramCycle

OldNotWIse wrote: »

And her adult sized bike?

jimgoose wrote: »

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

I observe lights, still faster than a car in rush hour traffic, faster than a bus too, often get delayed by buses moving slowly on the Donnybrook Road, I tend to sit in traffic though rather than give out about them as they have as much right as me to be there. I solve the issue of the delay by leaving my house earlier, simples.

They don't crack down on it anything like enough.

I often get beeped out of it for stopping on red as the car behind me felt that they should have been allowed run the light like the cars in front of me. Donnybrook junction is a comedy of errors all day long with this, Garda station just up the road, there is never a crack down, I often see a squad car in the traffic blissfully ignoring the law breaking. In the last two weeks I have seen every form of road user break the lights there, pedestrian, cyclists, car, van, bus. If they want a crack down, its not hard, motor vechicles are easily identifiable and cameras on the traffic lights can be used to track cyclists and peds, creatures of habit, its likely that the law breaker uses the same route regularly, get a picture of routine offenders, pull them off their bike, not hard done.

It isn't compulsory though. It should be.

In your opinon, the effect it would have on people cycling (lowering public health), the cost of administration, the fact that it is unnecessary due to the fact that the damage caused by cyclists in accidents is significantly lower and usually more to themselves than the other party.

cournioni wrote: »

Driving on my way home last night at traffic lights at a T-Junction on a one way two laned street (one going left, one right onto a two way street). I waited as usual at the lights to turn right onto the two way street. Light turns green and two cyclists (both without helmets) went straight through their red light. I lay into the horn, one of the cyclists looked visibly shook and the other laughed while both of then cycled across two lanes of traffic who obviously had the right of way.

Infuriating.

I worked nights for 12 years, every night I would see taxis fly through red lights in the middle of the night even though I had a green and a light as bright as a motorcycles on my bike, or even when I was driving.

jimgoose wrote: »

The point, as you well know, is answered, and the answer is that a bicycle is no quicker than a motorcycle in an urban setting when the pedaller plays by the same rules as everyone else.

All previous comparisons were to cars, where did the motorbikes come in, I imagine they are quicker than cyclists in many scenarios.

jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

...All previous comparisons were to cars, where did the motorbikes come in, I imagine they are quicker than cyclists in many scenarios.

It's quite obvious that a two-wheeler is going to be quicker around a city-centre than a car. All I'm saying is that some of the speed advantage of bicycles derives from certain, <harrumph> unorthodox practices.

jimgoose

Tony EH wrote: »

What? You don't think that a bicycle is a road vehicle?

Are you speaking to me? I'm not quite sure what it is, and I don't use them. It seems to be to be largely a C-programming declaration-follows-use sort of setup. But regardless, it doesn't matter what I think, the EU has seen fit to confer the "legal status of vehicles" upon them, whatever that means, so there you are. :cool:

missierex

What I find most infuriating are the 'professional' cyclists - Those that head out on Saturdays and Sundays down the country, dressed head- to- toe in luminous lycra. The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems, and nothing will do other than cycle three abreast, and ten cyclists deep making it impossible to overtake them safely...GRRRRRR :mad:

Jawgap

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Yeah didn't think about that. Guess it must have been a summer camp or something. Momma bear and cubs going from A(unknown place) to B (unknown place) at 08:20 - better? In any event, I dont think their destination was the main focus of my post - was it?

Well, you seem to have made on assumption (school) that's been demonstrated to be 'inaccurate' - so I suppose the rest of your post can be taken at face value.

jimgoose wrote: »

They'd slow up a fair bit if they observed traffic signals.

Even then, it's still quicker around the city on a bike than in a car, esp as cars / vehicles are confined to 30 km/hr in the city centre and bikes are not.

jimgoose wrote: »

That's a rather large "If"! :pac:

They don't crack down on it anything like enough.

It isn't compulsory though. It should be.

Then stay off the carriageway. Again, it should be.

Some people have a somewhat strange definition of "fun". :pac:

Most cyclists are law abiding - change the laws and they'll abide by them. As things stand, there is a requirement for lights - most cyclists observe it, just as most drivers observe the law regarding roadworthy cars.

Enforcement is a matter for AGS - I have no problem with their being a lot more enforcement of existing laws around lights, cycling on the pavement, red light jumping etc and I reckon most cyclists wouldn't be bothered either - cyclists, as well as other road users, find RLJing etc to be dangerous and annoying.

SeanW wrote: »

I think you're going into "Strawman" territory here ...

Not really, you postulated one (of several) rather ridiculous idea that access to the road should be based on payment of what you described as 'road tax' - and the non-payment of said 'road tax' should exclude cyclists - in the spirit of 'exaggeration for illustration' it was pointed out to you that more than just cyclists use the roads that are paid for from the public purse.......however, you seem to have no truck with those users being excluded on the basis of non-payment, perhaps because they are not cyclists?

magicbastarder

missierex wrote: »

The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems

you obviously haven't been reading the thread.

Thargor

missierex wrote: »

What I find most infuriating are the 'professional' cyclists - Those that head out on Saturdays and Sundays down the country, dressed head- to- toe in luminous lycra. The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems, and nothing will do other than cycle three abreast, and ten cyclists deep making it impossible to overtake them safely...GRRRRRR :mad:

What is the problem with lycra? If you'd ever put 5 minutes of effort on a bike you'd see why other materials arent up to the job, heat and moisture removal being the main factors along with friction/chafing. What possible problem could you have with what another person chooses to wear anyway?

Its already been explained about 5 times in this thread that the hard shoulders (and most of the cycle lanes) are unusable, they're full of years worth of debris and drains etc.

cournioni

CramCycle wrote: »

I worked nights for 12 years, every night I would see taxis fly through red lights in the middle of the night even though I had a green and a light as bright as a motorcycles on my bike, or even when I was driving.

Motor drivers can be arseholes too I agree, but I have never seen any motorist force two lanes of traffic to break while on a green like these cyclists did. Astonishing.

07Lapierre

missierex wrote: »

What I find most infuriating are the 'professional' cyclists - Those that head out on Saturdays and Sundays down the country, dressed head- to- toe in luminous lycra. The hard shoulder is not good enough for them it seems, and nothing will do other than cycle three abreast, and ten cyclists deep making it impossible to overtake them safely...GRRRRRR :mad:

Agree, This is illegal and very annoying, BUT if its not safe to overtake, don't do it. you'll only endanger yourself, the cyclists and any oncoming traffic.

CramCycle

blacklilly wrote: »

I read a post here yesterday (I can't remeber the poster) but basically they were saying that the vast majority of times traffic is moving slowly or you're being delayed, it's due to other Vehicles not cyclists.

This got me thinking, I don't become impatient with cyclists, I know many drivers that do, I don't think it's very logical to be impatient with them, unless of course they're doing something stupid.

Anyway, yesterday on my travel home, all but one slow down or delay was due to other vehicles, I've never really paid particular attention to it before tbh although I have come acorss some incredibly bad drivers. It was just interesting to note it.

Other than volume in Dublin, the other largest delayer to motor vehicles are the red light delay we have that I have not seen in any other country that seems to encourage red light running (watch the lights the next time, in other countries when one way goes red, the other goes green immediately, over here there is often a +2 second delay to facilitate RLJers), people sitting on yellow boxes, holding up crossing traffic leading to unnecessary traffic jams on arterial roads. The yellow boxes one is by far the worst, as one blocked junction over one light sequence can lead to a traffic jam that spreads back through the side road to the next parallel main road within a few minutes.