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The Time has surely come??

Oilbeefhooked!

Just wondering if any fellow Boardsies agree that the time has now come to change the golf ball to limit distance.
Following Rory Mcilroys 436yd drive today ( i know it was downwind on a hard links course) - but after Bubba Watson making a mockery of Augusta National this year, and guys now hitting a golf ball a quarter of a mile in one shot.:eek:
Surely something has to be done by the powers that be to limit the balls, before
many more great golf courses become unsuitable for professional competitions!!??

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soundsham

Downhill downwind on a links
I'm sure he averages closer to 310

If he teed up on the green and played to the tee it'd probably be a 270 yd drive

ankles

They did it at Wimbledon for the tennis. Altered the balls as it had become a serve slugfest. Would be a huge change but a hell of a lot cheaper than golf course buying pots of land to add 35 yards or more to every hole.

shane 007

Last week in the Leinster Under 18's Boys Championship, on the par 5 14th in Kilkenny, a young fella hit a 410 yard drive downwind!

Crazy!!!

Norfolk Enchants_

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

Just wondering if any fellow Boardsies agree that the time has now come to change the golf ball to limit distance.
Following Rory Mcilroys 436yd drive today ( i know it was downwind on a hard links course) - but after Bubba Watson making a mockery of Augusta National this year, and guys now hitting a golf ball a quarter of a mile in one shot.:eek:
Surely something has to be done by the powers that be to limit the balls, before
many more great golf courses become unsuitable for professional competitions!!??

Yeah 'cause changing the ball will account for playing downwind, downhill on concrete like links fairways with 150 yards of roll.

Oilbeefhooked!

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

Yeah 'cause changing the ball will account for playing downwind, downhill on concrete like links fairways with 150 yards of roll.

So to clarify, your saying that - its NOT possible to limit the distance a golf ball will travel , by changing the composition (ie, the core,dimple patttern, outer shell etc) of the modern golf ball??

Oilbeefhooked!

soundsham wrote: »

Downhill downwind on a links
I'm sure he averages closer to 310

If he teed up on the green and played to the tee it'd probably be a 270 yd drive

So you don't believe the distance players are now driving the ball, is becoming a problem in modern Golf?

shane 007

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

So you don't believe the distance players are now driving the ball, is becoming a problem in modern Golf?

How far would you take it? Limit the equipment also?
IMO the extra distance is more from the clubs & shafts. Balls will have some effect but more so the equipment.

SuprSi

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

So you don't believe the distance players are now driving the ball, is becoming a problem in modern Golf?

I don't believe it's a problem at all. I personally think it's great that everyone in the game can benefit from extra distance provided by newer equipment. Keep it coming!

I'd imagine 99% of golfers worldwide are amateurs and I'd wager the vast majority would love to drive it 270 - 280 yards regularly. Remember that if you take distance off the golf ball, it affects the amateurs way more than the pros.

Professionals hit it as far as they do because they're incredibly talented. They generate huge clubhead speed and have equipment that's as personalised to their individual swing traits as possible. Seeing McIlroy thump it over 400 yards on a downhill links hole with the wind is amazing, and I absolutely love seeing it.

GreeBo

Would it not be just as impressive to watch mcilroy drive it 250 yards when us mere mortals driving it 200?
Added benefit of making many more older courses realistic venues.

The ball had made the biggest impact to distance, proven by the pros ability to drive the new ball similar distances with the old clubs.

SuprSi

GreeBo wrote: »

Would it not be just as impressive to watch mcilroy drive it 250 yards when us mere mortals driving it 200?
Added benefit of making many more older courses realistic venues.

The ball had made the biggest impact to distance, proven by the pros ability to drive the new ball similar distances with the old clubs.

Absolutely not. Limit the distance so we can't go any further, but take distance away from us? I'd be devastated if I lost 50 yards off the tee, regardless of how much distance professionals would lose.

GreeBo

SuprSi wrote: »

Absolutely not. Limit the distance so we can't go any further, but take distance away from us? I'd be devastated if I lost 50 yards off the tee, regardless of how much distance professionals would lose.

Why?
It would impact everyone equally.
Think of all the courses that you could then play add they were originally designed.
That 50 yards was only given to you in the last 15 years anyway.

Oilbeefhooked!

SuprSi wrote: »

I don't believe it's a problem at all. I personally think it's great that everyone in the game can benefit from extra distance provided by newer equipment. Keep it coming!

I'd imagine 99% of golfers worldwide are amateurs and I'd wager the vast majority would love to drive it 270 - 280 yards regularly. Remember that if you take distance off the golf ball, it affects the amateurs way more than the pros.

Professionals hit it as far as they do because they're incredibly talented. They generate huge clubhead speed and have equipment that's as personalised to their individual swing traits as possible. Seeing McIlroy thump it over 400 yards on a downhill links hole with the wind is amazing, and I absolutely love seeing it.

Your entitled to your opinion, but im in pretty good company with mine

http://www.golftoday.co.uk/news/yeartodate/news02/nicklaus2.html

ps. Take your point re. Amatuers - but does not necessarily have to be the same equipment regulations for both pros and amatuers.

mjsc1970

I'd take 250 middle of the fairway evertime over 280 up to my town halls in the rough

slave1

mjsc1970 wrote: »

I'd take 250 middle of the fairway evertime over 280 up to my town halls in the rough

I wish I could hit it 250, nevermind 436. A few top pros should not effect the majority of golfers, leave as is...

Montgolfier

It would really screw up Taylormade marketing. "The SLDR stage 3 guarantee's to be only 25 yds shorter"

Imagine the rows over people using illegal balls.

gman127

If it was easier to hit the ball further then maybe more people would come back to the game!

Dublin Spur

nothing to do with the ball - it's the conditions

I played in Baltray last week and it was nearly impossible to stop/control the ball down wind.
The ground was so firm.

For example:
8th - 420 yrds - down wind - 4 iorn + wedge (though the back of the green)
9th - 420 yrds - into wind - Driver + 3 Wood + wedge

razorblunt

It's simple lads, make Commando balls the tour standard.

SnowDrifts

gman127 wrote: »

If it was easier to hit the ball further then maybe more people would come back to the game!

Russman

gman127 wrote: »

If it was easier to hit the ball further then maybe more people would come back to the game!

I doubt that's why many people left the game now, in fairness.

Op, I'd be totally in favour of reigning the ball back in. Yes, there's fitness improvements, large headed drivers etc but I think its generally accepted that the ball is the biggest factor for the outrageous distances they're hitting it now. I'm sorry, but when you've got them hitting wedges 160yds its a bit much IMO. So many great courses are being rendered obsolete and the only way they can hold events is to have pencil thin fairways, 6 inch rough and basically take the driver out of the guys' hands (like Merion last year).

Arguably the ruling bodies would have been better served dealing with the ball rather than anchoring. No reason why they couldn't have done both though.

Russman

Oilbeefhooked! wrote: »

but does not necessarily have to be the same equipment regulations for both pros and amatuers.

Have to say, I'd be totally against that though.

TheDoc

I don't know why people compare the proffesionals and make any comparison to the amateur game.

Personalised fitting on a weekly basis.
Custom built shafts. I'm not taking about the run of the mill selection, these guys can get unique custom built shafts, one of a kind.
Conditioning coaches for physical training and fitness
Advancements in fitness and conditioning providing more upper body strength.
one to one coach, working with players every week.
The time and dedicated to perfect a swing.

A proffesional will always hit a ball bigger then an amateur. It's not "STRICTLY" down to equipment.

If there was restrictions made to decrease distance in the amateur game, it will lead to simply slower golf and higher scoring golf, as players will become more reliant on hitting acurate woods and long irons into greens. Considering a lot of courses here in Ireland use that HORRIBLE upside down cup design for their greens, good luck trying to hit a green in two.

If they want to make changes to the pro tour go ahead, but no need for it on the amateur scene. I'm one of the biggest hitters in my club, and to be fair on a weekly basis most players hit out between 230-250 yards. Why in gods name would you remove more distance from them? The game is more fun and enjoyable when you are able to attack pins and flag, not when your having to hit woods into par 4's praying the ball doesn't run of the back of the green.

It's also worth noting that most amateurs arn't getting the maximum from their own swing and shot. Fades, poor ball flight, bad ball striking etc. It's not there is an epidemic where average players are hitting 350 yard drives.

It sounds like trying to fix a problem that isn't there.

Let the pro tour make changes if they want, there is no need to make changes to the amateur game.

FixdePitchmark

I wouldn't judge anything by this event in Scotland - as others have said it is conditions. This time of year you can get well over 300 yards with a tail wind on a links course. It was all down hill at his landing point. That explains his daft drive. But he is one of the biggest hitters.

Yes Rory is in another league to the other pros at this, but on another day there , he will struggle to reach green in 2.

Modern links are not designed for modern equipment - agree , but they have changed the ones that holds the big events only - it is easy to just let the rough go , it is a rare week you will not have a bad day on a links. The weather is almost the only defence to the modern game.
But in the mid 80s the lads were going 20 under for the 4 days at the Irish Open , without the modern equipment in good weather.

So the equipment has reached a limit - the clubs are at the limits of the rules , we should probably not give into pressure from the manufactures to go any further.

As amateurs we have benefited most form new equipment - I'm delighted to use GI irons and get away with murder with my poor striking.

Oilbeefhooked!

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't know why people compare the proffesionals and make any comparison to the amateur game.
Personalised fitting on a weekly basis.

Custom built shafts. I'm not taking about the run of the mill selection, these guys can get unique custom built shafts, one of a kind.

Conditioning coaches for physical training and fitness

Advancements in fitness and conditioning providing more upper body strength.

one to one coach, working with players every week.

The time and dedicated to perfect a swing.

A proffesional will always hit a ball bigger then an amateur. It's not "STRICTLY" down to equipment.

If there was restrictions made to decrease distance in the amateur game, it will lead to simply slower golf and higher scoring golf, as players will become more reliant on hitting acurate woods and long irons into greens. Considering a lot of courses here in Ireland use that HORRIBLE upside down cup design for their greens, good luck trying to hit a green in two.

If they want to make changes to the pro tour go ahead, but no need for it on the amateur scene. I'm one of the biggest hitters in my club, and to be fair on a weekly basis most players hit out between 230-250 yards. Why in gods name would you remove more distance from them? The game is more fun and enjoyable when you are able to attack pins and flag, not when your having to hit woods into par 4's praying the ball doesn't run of the back of the green.

It's also worth noting that most amateurs arn't getting the maximum from their own swing and shot. Fades, poor ball flight, bad ball striking etc. It's not there is an epidemic where average players are hitting 350 yard drives.

It sounds like trying to fix a problem that isn't there.

Let the pro tour make changes if they want, there is no need to make changes to the amateur game.

Totally agree here, and do also agree it could be very messy to have different regs for both.
My OP was just an observation purely directed at the professional golf game. Where due to all the factors you list above , so many top quality golf courses, are now obsolete to these pros , because all the well designed bunkering ,doglegging, hazarding is now just easily flown with the driver,often leaving a just a simple wedge to the green.
Again i use Bubba at Augusta as a prime example a drive and sand wedge to the par 5 13th!!!!

TheDoc

Agree with you, judging anything based on links golf is absolutely mental. It's a totally different world with firmer fairways giving more bounce and run, more countours that keep the ball moving and typically higher winds increasing carry.

I've had a good few drives clocked at 350yrds+ in St Annes for example. I used to play the father and son foursome event there with my Dad, he is a decent driver aswell, and we would consistently be flicking wedges and stuff into greens. But the downside been theball can easily roll into the heavy stuff, bunkers etc.

If people start massacaring 400+yrd drives on parkland, consistently, then yeah maybe its time to take a look, but driving distance on a links course is hardly the place to start the debate.

FixdePitchmark

Yes - but Bubba only has 2 majors - there is more to his game then just the big drive. Yes was a big factor in him winning this year - but his shot shaping is incredible - he not just a one shot guy.

I think it is a rare talent to win majors due to big hitting - should that not be embraced as much as a guy with a great short game.

It is a rare event and pro that has won a major - just due to distance.

GreeBo

TheDoc wrote: »

I don't know why people compare the proffesionals and make any comparison to the amateur game.
Personalised fitting on a weekly basis.

Custom built shafts. I'm not taking about the run of the mill selection, these guys can get unique custom built shafts, one of a kind.

Conditioning coaches for physical training and fitness

Advancements in fitness and conditioning providing more upper body strength.

one to one coach, working with players every week.

The time and dedicated to perfect a swing.

A proffesional will always hit a ball bigger then an amateur. It's not "STRICTLY" down to equipment.

If there was restrictions made to decrease distance in the amateur game, it will lead to simply slower golf and higher scoring golf, as players will become more reliant on hitting acurate woods and long irons into greens. Considering a lot of courses here in Ireland use that HORRIBLE upside down cup design for their greens, good luck trying to hit a green in two.

If they want to make changes to the pro tour go ahead, but no need for it on the amateur scene. I'm one of the biggest hitters in my club, and to be fair on a weekly basis most players hit out between 230-250 yards. Why in gods name would you remove more distance from them? The game is more fun and enjoyable when you are able to attack pins and flag, not when your having to hit woods into par 4's praying the ball doesn't run of the back of the green.

It's also worth noting that most amateurs arn't getting the maximum from their own swing and shot. Fades, poor ball flight, bad ball striking etc. It's not there is an epidemic where average players are hitting 350 yard drives.

It sounds like trying to fix a problem that isn't there.

Let the pro tour make changes if they want, there is no need to make changes to the amateur game.

Sure its great fun, its always fun to over power a course.
But its not playing the courses how they were designed.
Play off any of the Society tees in a championship course and its a laugh, but its not golf. Likewise playing a course like Milltown or my own Grange to some extent is not how the course was designed. Overpowering par 4's with a drive and a wedge when they were designed as a drive and a 3 iron isnt comparing yourself with the best, its stretched out pitch and putt imo.

The game has turned into a boomers paradise, unless you are playing somewhere "new" like Druids Heath etc off the long tees.

TheDoc

There is always exceptions to the rule though. Bubba could easily hit a monster hook out of bounds nevermind a 400yrd drive down the middle.

I'd be interested to know the avg drive length on tour, I'd imagine it would be about 320-330yrds, which isn't much more then say what I hit it, but then I'm the edge case for my club, with the avg probably being about 240 or so.

I don't have data for this, but from observation on my course, most players would take a 5-6iron from 150 yrds, and in some cases shorter hitters would take a 21* rescue.

That's a pretty big ask to hit a par 4 in two as it is, relying on both direction and some form of short landing or spin to hold the green.

I'd normally take an 8 iron from 150 yrds wind dependant, probably a 7iron more often then not due to windage.

So while chopping 20 yards of distance might make me move up to a 7 iron or 6 iron, its still a club I could hit a green and hold it the ball there and have some degree of confidence in accuracy.

But all of a sudden you start taking that distance from the guys already hitting 5 irons and rescues from 150-160yrds, and the game becomes outragously more difficult.

On the surface 25 yards isn't a lot, if its the difference between a 9iron shot and 8iron shot its no big deal. But when you start moving up to 4irons to rescues, and rescues to 3 woods and 5 woods, all of a sudden that 25 yards turns into a totally different shot.

I appreciate you were mentioning specific to the pro tour, my points are more addressed at the posters who feel it might be good to see in the amateur game.

Henry Ford III

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

...It is a rare event and pro that has won a major - just due to distance.

It's never happened. They need sound iron play, a very decent short and recovery game, and still have to get the ball into the hole.

Rory's massive hit yesterday was truly exceptional, and a firm links and the wind all helped, but he still hit it straight.

Clubs and balls have been limited by rule changes over the years. Better technique, and superior conditioning both allow top pros to bomb it out there.

Long hitting alone though will not win a club monthly medal, never mind a major championship.

TheDoc

GreeBo wrote: »

Sure its great fun, its always fun to over power a course.
But its not playing the courses how they were designed.
Play off any of the Society tees in a championship course and its a laugh, but its not golf. Likewise playing a course like Milltown or my own Grange to some extent is not how the course was designed. Overpowering par 4's with a drive and a wedge when they were designed as a drive and a 3 iron isnt comparing yourself with the best, its stretched out pitch and putt imo.

The game has turned into a boomers paradise, unless you are playing somewhere "new" like Druids Heath etc off the long tees.

I don't think it's overpowering, but I take enjoyment out of using my "scoring irons" and being able to attack pins. Ironically one of the weakest parts of my game, wedge play, is the one I enjoy the most in terms of hitting a golf shot.

I wouldn't say I overpower a course, but in certain conditions sure I'm left with flicks of wedges into greens. But I'm the edge case.

All "big hitters" at club golf, are edge cases. The majority of golfers at club level I'd imagine hit what would be maybe constitued as the average distance.

Just from experience, I'd notice most players in my course on par 4's would take a good drive, and be left anywhere between 150-170 yards to the green. Assuming the drive is good and accurate. The next shot is then most likely a 6iron, 7iron, or possibly a 5 iron or wood/resuce for the shoter hitters.

I think thats a good sweetspot on average for a par 4. A good drive and then you have a 7iron or higher. IT still leaves you some distance, but atleast gives you the opportunity to hit a shot that can hold a green.

So many courses in Ireland have that ****e upturned green structure, where if you don't spin your ball on the surface, it just rolls of on the sides. No idea how we could expect guys hitting 4irons+ and woods to generate any sort of spin to that type of green, or any spin in general tbh. I'd definitly struggle if it came to that, as I don't generate tons of spin on my shots past an 8iron.

Co incidently that you mention overpowering, makes me realise how piss poor my short game is, that I'm frequently left with wedges and maybe 9irons 8irons into par 4's yet amn't taking total advantage.

I don't know specially how golf courses were designed, but I'd imagine a par 4 was built requiring a good drive, then providing you a shot to the green to get a birdie. While I'd agree being left with wedges might not be to the course design and intention, I somehow dont believe players being left with woods, rescues or high irons firing into par4's is intention either .