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Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

gimmick

So this is a thread for your musings which do not deserve an entire thread of its own.

For example

I just watched Card Subject To Change. Horrific to think that since its been made the following has happened -

Kamala has become an amputee

Sensational Sherrie, Paul Bearer and Trent Acid are dead

Had Kevin Sullivan and Nancy stayed together one of Wrestlings darkest moments would be completely different or never would have happened.

Lacey Von Erich almost became a diva. She is also crazy hot. Pure nom.

I also mused that even while Sherri was a dispicable heel while she was on tv she may well have been my first celeb crush.

All this in one lazy evening.

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CSF

Or just take him off TV, I dunno, whatever suits.

Insect Overlord

Tssk wrote: »

They should probably come up with a new name for Adam Roses' posse if this article from feminist site Jezebel is to be believed

http://jezebel.com/heres-the-dangerous-and-grotesque-anal-sex-trend-you-ve-1593038946

Possibly something NSFW. But no lurid images are included

Dude...

gnfnrhead

leggo wrote: »

Think you're being a bit harsh. WWE often cools off on a guy's push after an initial superman stage to see how they react and if they still continue to hold their own when the spotlight isn't on them. It's a test and not really a comment on their ability or prospects for the future.

And don't forget Daniel Bryan and Barrett are NXT originals too.

They were FCW

Since NXT became the development facility rather than an awful TV concept, only the Shield have come good.

Considering the amount of praise NXT gets, it has done almost nothing live up to it's intention and actually develop talent.

CastorTroy

I think the 4 main problems with the transition from NXT to the main roster are 1. The length of the entrance wince the distance from back to the ring is much shorter in NXT, which was a big factor for Emma since doing the Emma to the ring looked less weird in NXT. Santino actually helped here by having her adopt his power walk.

2. The big jump in crowd size. NXT has the same crowd for 4 or 5 shows, a lot of which probably come for each of the tapings while in the main roster, you've a much bigger crowd where a lot of people don't know who they are.

3. This ties into 2. They get established in NXT and really get over and comfortable with their character only to then have to go out in front of a crowd where very few know who they are so they have to re-establish their character from scratch. Not to mention they're now performing in front of a crowd that are more worried about getting themselves heard over watching any of these new guys they don't know have a match

4. And speaking of having a match, they need to make their debut in an actual match or by attacking someone to have an impact. Look at Paige's debut or Bo. And then we have the Wyatts who had their promos beforehand. All are doing pretty well because of their debut night. Then we have the likes of Adam Rose whose debut involved dancing out to the ring, talking in a really annoying way and not doing anything memorable. If he'd actually had a match or even beat down Swagger, I think it was, then he would've made an impact

Blue_Dabadee

I do agree that NXT is not producing any future big time stars for the company. You got a lot of gimmicks on NXT that are like a throwback from mid-90's when WWE weren't doing well.

I do still watch NXT each week because it is a fun show to watch.

Sami Zayn is the only guy from NXT that I think is going to become a breakout star on main roster this year or next year.

Bounty Hunter

mxph3 wrote: »

I do agree that NXT is not producing any future big time stars for the company. You got a lot of gimmicks on NXT that are like a throwback from mid-90's when WWE weren't doing well.

I do still watch NXT each week because it is a fun show to watch.

Sami Zayn is the only guy from NXT that I think is going to become a breakout star on main roster this year or next year.

Considering how barren the WWE had been for new break through stars for several years, having Rollins, Reigns, Ambrose and the Wyatts all nearly at Main Event level added to people like Zayn still to debut on the main roster and then the talent like Devitt, Steen and Kenta arriving soon they arent doing too badly tbh. Especially when there are a few other new faces in the mid card and above also freshening things up like Cesaro and Bryan (when fit) and additions to the Divas division and mid card direct from NXT like Paige, Big E, Bo and Emma who they have barely even scratched the surface with on the main roster.

bobby_says_hi

Well it's all down to how much effort WWE is prepared to put into a debut. As was said above, the Full Sail crowd is fairly easy to get over in front of - since it's generally the same fans each time. So WWE has to put effort into introducing someone to the main roster. It only works if they have a visible plan worked out for them. People like The Shield and the Wyatts did well because time and effort was invested into them. With some people like Emma, Adam Rose and Xavier Woods they just seemed to get thrown onto the main roster with no rhyme or reason

Even if said star is over on their debut, long term thing is key here. Look at Paige. She was THE most popular Diva ever when she debuted. The likes of Alicia Fox and Aksana got great heat from crowds just from jobbing to her. Now most fans are indifferent because nothing was done with her. And that's because they rushed her onto TV - they had to get AJ out and get Paige in - and there was no story for her to build on. She just had the title and that was it

J. Marston

Tssk wrote: »

They should probably come up with a new name for Adam Roses' posse if this article from feminist site Jezebel is to be believed

http://jezebel.com/heres-the-dangerous-and-grotesque-anal-sex-trend-you-ve-1593038946

Possibly something NSFW. But no lurid images are included

That's enough internet for this week, I think.

leggo

I still feel like people are being way too harsh on NXT and not giving anyone time to develop into a star. Not everyone shows up to the roster a fully-formed star like Brock Lesnar, in fact that's ridiculously rare. More often they'll try stuff, fail, get re-packaged then eventually fall into something that fits (often by fluke). That trial and error process takes time. Keep in mind that Stone Cold Steve Austin started as The Ringmaster, The Rock was Rocky Maivia and Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley. This isn't a new sensation.

How many stables and gimmicks did Barrett have before he landed on BNB? You can't judge guys too much by how they start. The likes of Bo Dallas, Adam Rose, Paige and Rusev would be exceptions to the rule, historically, if they were still doing the exact same shtick in 5 years.

Look at who has been the focal points on TV since Mania: Bryan, Cena, Orton, Kane, The Shield, Wyatt, Barrett, Cesaro. Aside from Cena, Orton and Kane, all of the above have their roots in NXT. What more do you want? If anything, NXT is fast-forwarding the development of characters in that they cut a lot of that trial and error process out that used to happen when a guy would get signed and put on TV relatively quickly.

DM_7

It's also worth remembering not everyone can be a main event talent.

Some people, no matter how many edges get polished will still end up a JoMo, or Shelton who came through when Cena, Orton, Batista and Brock did. Others will end up even worse off like Eugene or the Bashams.

Jack Swagger is another good example of someone who ruined his own chances by doing something stupid that WWE couldn't control.

gnfnrhead

leggo wrote: »

I still feel like people are being way too harsh on NXT and not giving anyone time to develop into a star. Not everyone shows up to the roster a fully-formed star like Brock Lesnar, in fact that's ridiculously rare. More often they'll try stuff, fail, get re-packaged then eventually fall into something that fits (often by fluke). That trial and error process takes time. Keep in mind that Stone Cold Steve Austin started as The Ringmaster, The Rock was Rocky Maivia and Triple H was Hunter Hearst Helmsley. This isn't a new sensation.

How many stables and gimmicks did Barrett have before he landed on BNB? You can't judge guys too much by how they start. The likes of Bo Dallas, Adam Rose, Paige and Rusev would be exceptions to the rule, historically, if they were still doing the exact same shtick in 5 years.

Look at who has been the focal points on TV since Mania: Bryan, Cena, Orton, Kane, The Shield, Wyatt, Barrett, Cesaro. Aside from Cena, Orton and Kane, all of the above have their roots in NXT. What more do you want? If anything, NXT is fast-forwarding the development of characters in that they cut a lot of that trial and error process out that used to happen when a guy would get signed and put on TV relatively quickly.

I think you're doing the exact opposite and giving them far too much credit. At the end of the day, bar the Shield, their biggest success is in mid card limbo. Considering the near constant praise they get, that is a failure in every sense of the word.

Bo Dallas, Adam Rose and Rusev will all end up as jobbers.

Bounty Hunter

gnfnrhead wrote: »

I think you're doing the exact opposite and giving them far too much credit. At the end of the day, bar the Shield, their biggest success is in mid card limbo. Considering the near constant praise they get, that is a failure in every sense of the word.

Bo Dallas, Adam Rose and Rusev will all end up as jobbers.

I don't see why we should disregard the Shield to begin with It is quite an accomplishment to bring in and establish three guys at the top of the card like that and I wouldnt exactly describe feuding with Jericho at Summerslam after a prolonged feud with Cena that started and ran through Mania and folllowed a win over Bryan when he was red hot at the Rumble is mid card limbo, its not the main event but Bray and his gang have been central to Raws for a long time now, great position.

To establish four guys like that as they havent been able to do for quite some time and then when you then add in people like Bo, Harper, Rusev and even to some extent Emma, Paige and Big E whom can do a lot more than they have thus far things are looking alright in terms of who they are bringing through Especially with Zayn, Devitt, Steen and KENTA on the horizon. Plus you always need lower card stuff and even though Adam Rose might not be working out I think Renae Young is :P

orestes

I don't watch nXt cos I just don't have time to watch that much wrestling, but the awesomeness of the first showdown of the Shield and the Wyatts alone tells me they must be doing something right. To go from not even on tv to two seperate groups so established and both so over that just their first staredown, where none of them even said or did anything, got "this is awesome" chants, in two years is a hell of an achievement.

robvondoom

If you watch any WWE show other than Raw it's worth sacrificing in order to make time for NXT. To be honest, if I personally had to choose between Raw and NXT I'd pick the latter. Raw has it's moments but NXT, especially lately, has had excellent consistency.

gnfnrhead

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

I don't see why we should disregard the Shield to begin with It is quite an accomplishment to bring in and establish three guys at the top of the card like that and I wouldnt exactly describe feuding with Jericho at Summerslam after a prolonged feud with Cena that started and ran through Mania and folllowed a win over Bryan when he was red hot at the Rumble is mid card limbo, its not the main event but Bray and his gang have been central to Raws for a long time now, great position.

To establish four guys like that as they havent been able to do for quite some time and then when you then add in people like Bo, Harper, Rusev and even to some extent Emma, Paige and Big E whom can do a lot more than they have thus far things are looking alright in terms of who they are bringing through Especially with Zayn, Devitt, Steen and KENTA on the horizon. Plus you always need lower card stuff and even though Adam Rose might not be working out I think Renae Young is :P

I had a reply almost done and then pressed delete to change a bit. It went back and I lost everything :mad:

Anyway, I never said to disregard the Shield, instead I was looking for examples other than them. They are the ONLY success story since NXT became what it is. Bray Wyatt has been badly exposed as being nowhere near ready for such a prominant position, hence why after the Cena feud he went back to the midcard. Cesaro was red hot after Wrestlemania, now he is in a similar position to where he was this time last year. Mid card but with a shiny trophy to show for his efforts.

Fandango, Ryback and Xavier Woods are three names you left off. All essentially jobbers now, especially the latter. Bo Dallas, Adam Rose, Emma and Rusev will all be joining them in the near future. Rusev is the only one with any hope and conisdering how his gimmick always goes, it's only a matter of time before he is dancing with Khali. More failures. Erick Rowan will join them if he ever has to do anything other than stand there. Big E was crazy popular in NXT and is now a random midcarder at best. Not exactly a roaring success.

Out of all those people, that gives us the Shield, two midcarders (Wyatt and Cesaro) plus whatever happens with Harper and Paige. That is an incredibly small number of success stories. FCW etc. would have produced the same, if not more, had they gotten the same resources NXT has now. NXT isnt doing what it is designed to do.

DM_7

Two years is a very short length of time and in WWEs world the list of names that can main event will always be small. They need a midcard, a low card as well as main event. NXT has filled out all of those positions and brought through people who can reach the main event. That is a success imo and exactly what the performance centre and move to full sail shows was designed for.

For example, the majority of segments on RAW featured people who were on NXT which is a good illustration of it being a success. Here is a breakdown with nope beside the parts with no nxters (I may have left something out so open to correction)

Opened with Roman Reigns
Harper and Rowan v Usos
Alicia v Boobie Bella - nope
Backstage Kane and Orton talk, interrupted by Rollins
Rusev v RVD
Orton v Ambrose
Backstage Cena interview interrupted by Reigns
Del Rio v Dolph - Nope
Goldust and Stardust piece - nope
Layla and Fandango talk about Summer Rae who makes and appearance
Bret Hart interrupted by Sandow - nope
Sandow v Sheamus - nope
Miz interviewed by Rene
Miz v Jericho with Bray and his family appearing at end of the match
Cameron & Naomi v AJ & Paige
Cesaro v Kofi with Big E making a save
Cena & Rollins backstage
El Torito and Bo Dallas
John Cena v Seth Rollins with interference from Orton, Kane, Reigns and Ambrose w a failed Rollins MITB cash in and Reigns standing tall alongside Cena at show end.

That is a alot of nxt prominent people in last couple of years coming through. The likes of the USOs have also beneffitted from the performance centre and developmental system in the last couple of years.

CSF

Would be very surprised if Bo Dallas ever became a jobber.

Bounty Hunter

not usually one to reply to a post piece by piece but I'm enjoying this discussion

gnfnrhead wrote: »

Anyway, I never said to disregard the Shield, instead I was looking for examples other than them. They are the ONLY success story since NXT became what it is.

Ok Disregard ids probably the wrong word but I dont think it can be overstated enough how especially in comparison to all the barren years of new character development the WWE saw especially in relation to upper card guys. To bring through three guys so well like they have and have them all placed so well on the card after 2 years on the roster is great and really shows the newer developmental system to be having success, ast the very least relative to what developmental had previous to this current incarnation going back almost as far as the Brock, Orton, Cena class.

Bray Wyatt has been badly exposed as being nowhere near ready for such a prominant position, hence why after the Cena feud he went back to the midcard.

I'm sure on this plus a number of other points we will probably have to just agree to disagree but I think you are being a bit short term here (aswell as being harsh on Bray) Unless you are Brock Lesnar or someone similar it is incredibly rare for someone just to be pushed to the moon and have non stop main event feuds especially when they are as Young as Bray. The fact that he beat the hottest guy in the WWE in Bryan at the Rumble, then went straight into a feud that lasted through mania and essentially all the way until MITB against Cena before moving on to Jericho is not exactly being badly exposed and back in the midcard especially not when him and his family seem to have multiple segments or matches every week on Raw. The fact that he has moved into a feud with someone other than Cena who isn't going for the gold should not be held against him or developmental in any way imo its just what happens, at least he is being given time and a position to develop further which he actually may not get in the main event picture as Reigns is taking that spot atm.

Cesaro was red hot after Wrestlemania, now he is in a similar position to where he was this time last year. Mid card but with a shiny trophy to show for his efforts.

Personally I think they should be doing a lot more with Cesaro but I also think he is someone who it would take very little effort for them to build back up and unfortunately the WWE seem like they can only build a handful of guys at once. Maybe they establish the guys from the Shield, Bray as well as Bryan fully and then it's Cesaro's turn is the way they see things but either way I dont think developmental could be called into question here becasue imo Cesaro is ready. He has everything needed for a big push as is.

Fandango, Ryback and Xavier Woods are three names you left off. All essentially jobbers now, especially the latter.

Firstly Cesaro came from FCW to WWE iirc and although he did come down to NXT a few times when he did he was great (w/ Sami Zayn for example).

Fandango was on NXT but it wasnt the NXT we know today, if we were to include that NXT then I suppose we would have to start talking about Barrett, Bryan etc but I dont think that would be fair anyway plus I dont think Fandango is doing a bad job. He is a solid lower mid-card guy who actually stands out from the cookie cutter type and the roster needs guys like that being developed too.

Ryback could go here too as he came through the original NXT with the NEXUS and although he is no longer main event he had an runt here but is now imo a decent enough mid card talent.

Bo Dallas, Adam Rose, Emma and Rusev will all be joining them in the near future. Rusev is the only one with any hope and conisdering how his gimmick always goes, it's only a matter of time before he is dancing with Khali.

Personally I dont think Adam Rose is any good but then again im not judging the developmental territory by its ratios of stars created because if they make a decent amount of stars I won't care how many guys they tried to make into stars and failed with (woods would go here but i dont think they even tried) because they will have created enough.

Apart from that I think you are being harsh on The other three named here Bo and Rusev in particular have done nothing but look good imo since they have been on the main roster. Rusevs big foreigner gimmick may have failed before but his and Bo's run on the main roster thus far would in no way reflect poorly on the developmental programme they have come through infact it would be the opposite imo as both look like they are good and have potential to be very good once the main rosters writers dont mess them up.

Then there is Emma who you have mentioned and again I think she is very good and I'm not the only one, as a listener to the podcast im sure you know how TBC feels about young Emma but she can wrestle but yes again the main rosters booking of her has been poor. Developmental did a good job on her though and I still think that herself much like Paige can and if given time will do a lot more on the man roster and that they have only scratched the surface with the potential of them and a few others.[/quote]

More failures. Erick Rowan will join them if he ever has to do anything other than stand there. Big E was crazy popular in NXT and is now a random midcarder at best. Not exactly a roaring success.

Rowan isn't great but his look suits his role and he has actually improved a lot recently imo and him and Harper who is extremely talented could be a very good tag team for a very long time and the only reason they wouldnt be imho is if the WWE decide to push Haper as a singles wrestler and that guy has the potential to be one of the next great big men afaic so that could be another positive instead of viewing Rowan as a negative. Meanwhile yes the main rosters writers havent used big E as he could have but developmental created a potential star and like Paige for example I think he is capable of a lot more than he is showing atm and I think given more time (ala Mark Henry but perhaps not needing as long) he can become more than a decent mid carder which again is also needed.

Out of all those people, that gives us the Shield, two midcarders (Wyatt and Cesaro) plus whatever happens with Harper and Paige. That is an incredibly small number of success stories. FCW etc. would have produced the same, if not more, had they gotten the same resources NXT has now. NXT isnt doing what it is designed to do.

Rollins
Ambrose
Reigns

all a success, everyone seems to agree

Wyatt

a huge success imo, some dont like him though but given how he is and has been used for the past several months I think its safe to say he is a star of the future as well as present in many ways.

Luke Harper

With Wyatt he has come through and he has shined imo and be it as a tag wrestler or potential as a singles star he will continue to do well imo

Cesaro

If we are including him then I think he is someone we can consider a fully developed star in waiting, give him the right psuh and watch him go

Bo Dallas, Rusev, Paige, Emma, Big E

These all have huge potential and dont neccesarily have to be massive stars but developmental did a good job imo

Oh and then there is the imminent arrival of Devitt, Steen and KENTA in NXT added to Sami Zayn (and argueably Neville/Pac) being there.

so for me it's NXT A-OK for sure

rossie1977

wwe have done a terrific job bringing people up from nxt since mania 28. there isn't a pro-wrestling or mma company on earth that have brought through so many new guys and girls over the past year/18 months. just look at the last ppv and try and book that card without the wyatts, paige, rollins, ambrose, rusev, big e, bray, reigns and cesaro (nxt alumni like summer rae, sandow and rose were also on the card)

everyone is clearly not going to be maineventer, a rip-roaring success or a success straight away..remember it took batista and cena 3 full years from debuting on the main roster to winning their first world titles.

even tna are benefiting from nxt. ec3 and bram

CSF

I can't believe I just heard Ryback described as decent.

Lord TSC

CSF wrote: »

I can't believe I just heard Ryback described as decent.

Ryback is at the very least decent. At one stage, I easily believed that he had what it took to be a top player in WWE. When they were at Dublin last year, he felt like a major star in the making.

The only problem with Ryback is that WWE (for some reason, most likely his ego IIRC) dropped the ball with him and decided to have him start losing every single PPV match he was having, and eventually gave up on him, so the fans did too.

jaykhunter

He's not a safe wrestler. WWE knew that in his what, 6-7 years in developmental hell! They thought it's now or never, he's getting old, and pushed him to the main event, where he started injure-scaring main eventers. So they wouldn't pull the trigger on him and he went on a main-event losing streak and went back down to the midcard. Even this year he's still giving people concussions (Ziggler).

I'm sure he's a lovely bloke and all but 'decent' indicates he's not going to injure people. He's constantly referred to as "wreckless".

Eire-Dearg

It's a pity as he does have a fantastic look and IMO isn't too bad on the mic.

But nothing should come before wrestler safety and for WWE you're risking your top guys putting them in with him.

jaykhunter

Yeah he looks like a million bucks. Shame it isn't the 80s because he'd have a SummerSlam run with Hogan, Earthquake style! Or like Zeus.

Angron

Didn't WWE get really pissed at him when he started using Goldberg's moves in-ring too, when they were trying to distance that association?

leggo

I've said it before and will say it again, far too often fans blame WWE on 'dropping the ball' on a guy who's never offered anything that would cause the company to run with them. Sell me again on why Ziggler should be a World Champion and figurehead of the company? Because he 'bumps well for others'? Is that not a jobber's gimmick?

A wrestler's job is for them to stand out and be remembered. If the likes of Ziggler, Ryback and Sandow want to be future world champions/icons then they have to make it happen for themselves. The onus isn't on WWE to make them stars, there are a thousand other able wrestlers who'll happily take their spots if they aren't happy with them. The legends of wrestling figure it out for themselves and the rest are forgotten by fans as soon as they get released from the biggest opportunity they'll ever have.

CastorTroy

Trying to think when the last time was I actually saw someone successfully execute a backdrop. It's strange since it is one off the first bumps they learn, as far as I know

gnfnrhead

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

not usually one to reply to a post piece by piece but I'm enjoying this discussion

This is getting very long :pac:

Ok Disregard ids probably the wrong word but I dont think it can be overstated enough how especially in comparison to all the barren years of new character development the WWE saw especially in relation to upper card guys. To bring through three guys so well like they have and have them all placed so well on the card after 2 years on the roster is great and really shows the newer developmental system to be having success, ast the very least relative to what developmental had previous to this current incarnation going back almost as far as the Brock, Orton, Cena class.

This barren spell is pretty exaggerated in my mind. In the years since Cena and co. came through, we got a lot of guys in a similar position. Throughout those years there was a near constrant stream of new people being tried out in the upper card spots. A couple of randam examples are CM Punk (didnt do half bad), The Miz, John Morrison, Chris Masters, Kozlov etc. That is what the Shield are doing now. They are getting that push. Hopefully it works out better for them than it did for everyone bar Punk in recent years. It wasnt for a lack of trying or a lack of talent. FCW was producing the goods, WWE just didnt know what to do with it. I'm not blaming any of the talent involved. You can only work with what they give you. I'm blaming WWE. NXT has done essentially the same as FCW but with a lot more resources. FCW was shut down because it was deemed to be failing. NXT is probably doing worse but receives near constant praise. That is what I have an issue with. People proclaiming NXT to be amazing when in reality it is failing to do what it should be doing at the most basic level. Create stars rather than numbers.

I'm sure on this plus a number of other points we will probably have to just agree to disagree but I think you are being a bit short term here (aswell as being harsh on Bray) Unless you are Brock Lesnar or someone similar it is incredibly rare for someone just to be pushed to the moon and have non stop main event feuds especially when they are as Young as Bray. The fact that he beat the hottest guy in the WWE in Bryan at the Rumble, then went straight into a feud that lasted through mania and essentially all the way until MITB against Cena before moving on to Jericho is not exactly being badly exposed and back in the midcard especially not when him and his family seem to have multiple segments or matches every week on Raw. The fact that he has moved into a feud with someone other than Cena who isn't going for the gold should not be held against him or developmental in any way imo its just what happens, at least he is being given time and a position to develop further which he actually may not get in the main event picture as Reigns is taking that spot atm.

I think everyone knows my opinions on Bray Wyatt so I wont repeat them again. In short, Wyatt went from midcard (Kane) to upper midcard (Bryan) to main event (Cena) to midcard again (Jericho). Chris Jericho isnt as important as he or WWE like to think he is. Also, ask Fandango or Dolph Ziggler how much feuding with Jericho helped.

Personally I think they should be doing a lot more with Cesaro but I also think he is someone who it would take very little effort for them to build back up and unfortunately the WWE seem like they can only build a handful of guys at once. Maybe they establish the guys from the Shield, Bray as well as Bryan fully and then it's Cesaro's turn is the way they see things but either way I dont think developmental could be called into question here becasue imo Cesaro is ready. He has everything needed for a big push as is.

Cesaro was ready made when signed. All he needed was a decent storyline and a solid push. He got neither. Might be harsh including him in this topic, but he went through development, including NXT, and is currently wasting away in the mid card. That has to count as a failure considering his ability.

Firstly Cesaro came from FCW to WWE iirc and although he did come down to NXT a few times when he did he was great (w/ Sami Zayn for example).

Fandango was on NXT but it wasnt the NXT we know today, if we were to include that NXT then I suppose we would have to start talking about Barrett, Bryan etc but I dont think that would be fair anyway plus I dont think Fandango is doing a bad job. He is a solid lower mid-card guy who actually stands out from the cookie cutter type and the roster needs guys like that being developed too.

Ryback could go here too as he came through the original NXT with the NEXUS and although he is no longer main event he had an runt here but is now imo a decent enough mid card talent.

If we are getting this picky, then the likes of Rollins and Reigns have no place being listed as pluses. They spent a lot of time in FCW first. Ambrose too but nowhere near as long. Bray Wyatt was also in FCW first. Seems like you are trying to have it both ways. Passing off some failures as being FCW but claiming others who were also FCW trained as being NXT successes. We have to include them all or none.

Personally I dont think Adam Rose is any good but then again im not judging the developmental territory by its ratios of stars created because if they make a decent amount of stars I won't care how many guys they tried to make into stars and failed with (woods would go here but i dont think they even tried) because they will have created enough.

With the amount they have put into NXT and development as a whole, they shouldnt be putting people like Adam Rose on the main roster. They should be producing better. NXT gets a free pass for some reason, despite the far greater resources at their disposal. Again, FCW would have a similar success ratio but with much less in the way of resources.

Apart from that I think you are being harsh on The other three named here Bo and Rusev in particular have done nothing but look good imo since they have been on the main roster. Rusevs big foreigner gimmick may have failed before but his and Bo's run on the main roster thus far would in no way reflect poorly on the developmental programme they have come through infact it would be the opposite imo as both look like they are good and have potential to be very good once the main rosters writers dont mess them up.

Think back for a minute. When was the last time the evil foreigner gimmick worked? Probably Yokozuna? Once that gimmick runs it's course, you're dancing with Khali on Smackdown. Bo's entire gimmick just screams jobber to me.

Then there is Emma who you have mentioned and again I think she is very good and I'm not the only one, as a listener to the podcast im sure you know how TBC feels about young Emma but she can wrestle but yes again the main rosters booking of her has been poor. Developmental did a good job on her though and I still think that herself much like Paige can and if given time will do a lot more on the man roster and that they have only scratched the surface with the potential of them and a few others.

As I said previously, I'm not blaming the wrestler themself. You can have all the ability in the world but it wont matter if WWE dont decide they like you. I think Paige will be fine but Emma is dead in the water, especially after what happened recently.

Rowan isn't great but his look suits his role and he has actually improved a lot recently imo and him and Harper who is extremely talented could be a very good tag team for a very long time and the only reason they wouldnt be imho is if the WWE decide to push Haper as a singles wrestler and that guy has the potential to be one of the next great big men afaic so that could be another positive instead of viewing Rowan as a negative. Meanwhile yes the main rosters writers havent used big E as he could have but developmental created a potential star and like Paige for example I think he is capable of a lot more than he is showing atm and I think given more time (ala Mark Henry but perhaps not needing as long) he can become more than a decent mid carder which again is also needed.

Lumping Harper with the hopeless Rowan is a waste. Harper is already in his mid 30's so he cant afford to spend a few years dragging Rowan along with him. The sooner he gets away from him, the better. I think Big E.'s IC title run showed exactly what they thought of him. He's there to make up the numbers at this stage. WWE have no intention of doing anything with him which has to count as a failure for me.

Rollins
Ambrose
Reigns

all a success, everyone seems to agree

Agreed, but most thought the same of Dolph Ziggler and look how that ended.

Wyatt

a huge success imo, some dont like him though but given how he is and has been used for the past several months I think its safe to say he is a star of the future as well as present in many ways.

Disagree. For me, Wyatt has been badly exposed as all gimmick and no substance. Once Triple H finds a new pet project, Wyatt will be at best a midcarder. He isnt good enough to maintain a high position on the card without the backing of someone like Triple H.

Luke Harper

With Wyatt he has come through and he has shined imo and be it as a tag wrestler or potential as a singles star he will continue to do well imo

We all know how good Harper is, but he has done nothing. He's a lackey and nothing more. Very generous to count that as a success. When the Wyatt's split, he could just as easily end up unemployed.

Cesaro

If we are including him then I think he is someone we can consider a fully developed star in waiting, give him the right psuh and watch him go

Dolph Ziggler. Damien Sandow. Cody Rhodes. Having the ability means nothing if WWE dont decide to give you something to work with.

Bo Dallas, Rusev, Paige, Emma, Big E

These all have huge potential and dont neccesarily have to be massive stars but developmental did a good job imo

The only one I think that has any hope there is Paige. The other four will be a footnote at best. If NXT was doing as it claims, that wouldnt be the case.

Oh and then there is the imminent arrival of Devitt, Steen and KENTA in NXT added to Sami Zayn (and argueably Neville/Pac) being there.

so for me it's NXT A-OK for sure

Once again, ability means nothing. Sami Zayn is 1000 times the wrestler Adam Rose will ever be but look who is on the main roster and look who is wasting away in development. I'll be very surprised if Steen makes it to the main roster. His knees and back arent great and all the stuff he excels at, is the opposite of what WWE like. Devitt I fully expect to be Hornswoggle's big brother just because he is Irish. KENTA will be the same as every other Japanese import in WWE (and TNA with the possible exception of Sanada). Tajiri is probably the only successful import and that was largely down to his comedy stuff. Serious Tajiri was rarely more than a jobber.

Finally done. Cant believe this started out so small and now look what you've made me do. :pac:

Moneymaker

I'm going to dedicate 10-15 minutes of podcast to this on Wednesday.

Suffice to say, I disagree with gnfnrhead.

Surprise, surprise.

:pac::pac:

CastorTroy

Guest star on this week's podcast to discuss all things NXT and AJ - gnfnrhead? Could see it then becoming the longest podcast yet