munstermagic11 wrote: » Clearly there is demand for the concert, this became apparent as soon as they began selling the tickets. So the question you should be asking is why did the promoter wait so long to apply for the licence? Yes, it's normal practice to sell the tickets while pending a licence. But the promoter didn't even apply when they knew they had 5 gigs sold out. They knew that it would cause an issue. They knew it would lead to objections. They knew there was a risk/chance that 5 nights wouldn't get approved. They still took the fans money and built up expectation.GB isn't left in a situation where he has to disappoint those on the Mon and Tues. That decision wasn't his to make. GB is disappointing the Fri/Sat/Sun fans. Those gigs were never given a licence to be cancelled. They never actually existed. The three approved gigs are now been threaten to be cancelled by GB.
ghostdancer wrote: » they didn't submit it in the "minimal amount of time", they did it a month before it was required (which is 10 weeks prior to any event). pretty much every single outdoor concert/festival submits their licence not long before the deadline as it takes time to put in place staffing plans/facilities plans/security agreements/policing agreements etc. they certainly couldn't have done it 6 months ago as it takes time to contrct companies etc. the process has been shown to be flawed in that it takes forever for licences to be granted. many of the current Marley Park gigs didn't have a licence until the day before the gigs due to the amount of time it takes for the councils to bother doing it.
hynesie08 wrote: » C'mon now this is a bit of a paper argument, aiken have been around long enough now that this stuff should be second nature to them. Croker hasn't changed shape since last year so they should know what they need in terms of staff/security/arrangements. There's no way they couldn't have done it 6 months ago.
ghostdancer wrote: » same with Punchestown/Marley Park/Phoenix Park/Stradbally/etc/etc. so why does it take MCD/POD so long to apply for licences to them? surely they can apply for the licence the day they announce gigs?
baaba maal wrote: » It was already the most contentious venue in the country in terms of vocal, local opposition- or at least, I can't think of any other? Therefore, they should have applied far in advance of that- I accept that it was somewhat in advance, but clearly not by enough. I also accept the process is unwieldy, but it is the process as Aiken was already aware. If we are to look at legislative changes it should include the requirement that tickets cannot be sold until the event has it's licence granted. One of the possible positive outcomes from this debacle is that the legislators might amend the regs to streamline the process (I don't mean by that that they weigh the decision-making in favour of the promoter, just that the timeframes be more sensibly set). I would further suggest that a highly-charged and public decision as this was arrived at the last minute because the officials didn't "bother" to decide.
nm wrote: » I think I read in somewhere in one of threads that they need to detail the stage layouts and other such in the application, which may not have been decided on at that point.
ghostdancer wrote: » yep, that's true. apparently though Croker doesn't change so they should just be able to photocopy the application from previous concerts and submit that or something :rolleyes:
hynesie08 wrote: » I don't know why it does take them so long but why should it? You really think aiken don't know who they're using for stewards/security/alcohol/staging/ambulance etc at this stage? So why would it be so hard to put in an application 6 months in advance. Genuine question.
ghostdancer wrote: » because they have to meet with Gardai who then have to decide themselves on policing due to "crowd profile", and then they need to make recommendations to the promoters, who then have to make arrangements for security based on those recommendations. they have to finalise stage and production requirements to include. they have to finalise and finish contracts with security companies, emergency services, etc. for those specific dates, all of which will take time from the point of view of those people to sort out their own requirements and staffing. and probably a whole host of other things. for festivals and outdoor events in non-permanent structures, there's other requirements like toilet facilities, food vendors, water points, sanitation, etc etc. that need to be included in the licence application. just a guess, but i'd imagine Aiken, MCD/Live Nation, POD and the other promoters in the country have a better idea than you, and aren't just leaving it ages to submit applications for the hell of it....
8-10 wrote: » I wonder if there's a way to get a conditional license that covers at least the main stuff causing the issue here, like number of nights, in advance of the ticket sales. And they are sold "subject to license conditions" or some such. So at least the nights/curfew/facilities/capacity stuff is all agreed on, subject to agreeing on stage sizes, catering etc etc that isn't as fundamental but won't prevent the license being fully granted as they can be negotiated later.
salmocab wrote: » great idea but its also common sense so wouldn't hold my breath on it.
hynesie08 wrote: » With the only exception being the stage, why can't all that be done before they're announced? Considering they were handing in incomplete applications anyway?
HardLuckWoman wrote: » Maybe a stupid question but Does anyone know, do you have to give your tickets back when getting a refund. They're pretty much useless and well I am the crazy fan here and would like to keep them.
horseburger wrote: » Not sure, its an interesting question. If you bought online, I think they refund the money automatically back into your account, without you having to make contact with ticketmaster, but if you bought at a ticketmaster outlet, you bring the ticket back to that particular outlet. It'd be interesting to see can you hold on to your ticket, if it was bought at an outlet. What does the outlet need to be able to give you the refund? Do they just need the booking order number - which would be on the receipt given to you, when you bought the ticket - from where they can then see your transaction details, in order to give you a refund? If so, I can't see any reason why you couldn't keep the ticket?
horseburger wrote: » That considering the efforts fans went to get tickets, the days and hours queuing at the ticketmaster outlets, that I can understand him saying he'd much prefer play all five or none at all, otherwise those that managed to get tickets for Monday or Tuesday would then feel very dissapointed, if the first three shows go ahead.
ghostdancer wrote: » the process has been shown to be flawed in that it takes forever for licences to be granted. many of the current Marley Park gigs didn't have a licence until the day before the gigs due to the amount of time it takes for the councils to bother doing it.
Sideshow Mark wrote: » What this debacle proves is that the process works as intended. You're buying into the spin, read the article in today's independent by Lord Henry or Jim Carrols piece in the Irish Times. From those it would appear that Aiken didn't follow the rules, and hoped that DCC would not want to disappoint the concert goers. Luckily DCC saw sense and did the right thing. Five consecutive nights in a residential area is unacceptable, it's hard to fathom how Aiken thought he could get this through.
ghostdancer wrote: » Jim Carroll's piece confirms exactly what I said.
The GAA gave the approval to the promoter for the unprecedented run of shows knowing how hot under the collar the locals were about their behaviour and attitude.
scudzilla wrote: » IF you bought online then you will automatically get a refund (happened to us with Rob Zombie's gig) and get to keep the tickets.If you bought at an outlet you must take the ticket in for the refund and hand your ticket in
munstermagic11 wrote: » The process works for Mountcharles as it appears that he doesn't take the "sure, it’ll be grand” approach that is mentioned in Carroll's piece. It seems that he minimizes the risks by having a good consultation process and getting as many possible objectors 'pleased', to reduce the chance of any objections and the fallout that may ensue. From Carroll's piece: Croker/Aiken didn't minimize the chances of the concerts receiving an objection; an objection that had a high possibility of succeeding and less than the full 5 concerts going ahead. I wouldn't say that Aiken didn't follow rules or process. But they chanced their arm by having 5 concerts in a row. It was a gamble, and now it appears that a lot of people have to suffer because of it.
As we now know, the tickets for the show sold out before the license was granted – indeed, before the application for the licence was even made – because this is how Irish promoters have to work with the laws. They can’t wait for the licence to be granted to announce the show or put tickets on sale because it takes weeks and even months for the local county council to go through all the procedures involved in the process. Do you really think you can have the act, the stadium and the production on hold for four or five months and then put 400,000 tickets on sale three weeks out? It might work for an indoor show at the O2, but an outdoor show or series of shows attracting 400,000 people is another matter entirely.
gerbilgranny wrote: » Hearing the good news that Sinn Féin is to table an emergency motion at DCC's meeting on Monday (and let's face it, that was a political football only screaming out to be picked up, and taken straight to the goal)...I am still hopeful, and would like to think that on Tuesday 29th, I might hear this song sung at the GB concert...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLkCWT2neuI&feature=kp
