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Single life as a guy...

LordNorbury

Hi folks, just thought I'd start this thread, I'm a guy in my mid 30's and single, it occurred to me to start a general discussion on single life for guys in their 20's and 30's (and upwards!)... I'm single a few years now, after a few really long term relationships, was never married and never had kids.

I don't want this to be a thread on internet dating or how to pull women as a single guy, more about the pro's and the con's of single life, the best and the worst of it, aspirations for the future, maybe regrets about the past, what you do that is important to you to have and to enjoy your life, that is generally configured very differently from many people around you, (who at this age are generally settled down with a partner and kids)...

Just interested in generating some discussion on the subject, as your man on Star Trek says, "engage!"...

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lazybones32

LordNorbury wrote: »

... more about the pro's and the con's of single life, the best and the worst of it, aspirations for the future...

Pro's: more time, money, freedom, hair. If you love your career, you can devote more resources to it without ignoring other priorities.
You never have to have to endure the battle for control that many marriages devolve into. There can and will be only one boss!
You probably won't feel trapped or conned into something.
Less emotional manipulation and blackmail.
No begging for sex.
Your car is yours for travel, not as a taxicab.
You don't have to listen to craziness, paranoia and 'prophetic' dreams that need to be discussed (by discussion, I mean she talks and you listen...same as arguments)
You are not a handbag/ bag-carrier when shopping.
You can have a girlfriend.

Cons:
You lose your girlfriend. The difference between a gf and a wife is more than the 4 stone she'll put on when you marry her; wedding cake has been scientifically proven to reduce sex drive.
Being alone - not the same as being lonely but it is nice to have someone in the bed with you; sitting on the couch with or even just to argue with.
Potential for family life.
Having someone who (hopefully) loves you very much and wants the best for you.

Being married doesn't guarantee more happiness and contentment than being single. If you can't be happy as a singleton, do you think having a wife will fulfill you? Like the saying goes "A man is incomplete until he's married. Then he's finished".

thomur

lazybones32 wrote: »

Pro's: more time, money, freedom, hair. If you love your career, you can devote more resources to it without ignoring other priorities.
You never have to have to endure the battle for control that many marriages devolve into. There can and will be only one boss!
You probably won't feel trapped or conned into something.
Less emotional manipulation and blackmail.
No begging for sex.
Your car is yours for travel, not as a taxicab.
You don't have to listen to craziness, paranoia and 'prophetic' dreams that need to be discussed (by discussion, I mean she talks and you listen...same as arguments)
You are not a handbag/ bag-carrier when shopping.
You can have a girlfriend.

Cons:
You lose your girlfriend. The difference between a gf and a wife is more than the 4 stone she'll put on when you marry her; wedding cake has been scientifically proven to reduce sex drive.
Being alone - not the same as being lonely but it is nice to have someone in the bed with you; sitting on the couch with or even just to argue with.
Potential for family life.
Having someone who (hopefully) loves you very much and wants the best for you.

Being married doesn't guarantee more happiness and contentment than being single. If you can't be happy as a singleton, do you think having a wife will fulfill you? Like the saying goes "A man is incomplete until he's married. Then he's finished".

Yep, Im a saddo. 40 years with no meaningful relationship. I love my life but its lonely when you are sitting at home with no one to watch a video with.

LordNorbury

There is a thread in AH titled "Familes that earn 100K are struggling", and I've just read the entire thread. It is exactly the struggles that are discussed there, mainly financial, that would put me off ever wanting to get married and start a family, and that would make me choose to retain my status as a single guy with no children.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057242948&page=2

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/families-that-earn-euro100k-are-struggling-274293.html

I know this is not a view that other people tend to agree with, but speaking for myself, there is a very real fear that I have in the back of my mind, where I would at some point in the future have 1-2 kids and a spouse and we are really struggling financially, that my kids would be going without simple things because of the way the country is run, in particular the highly punitive tax system and the simple reality that a family where both parents are working and earning 100K, that seems to me like a huge amount of income, but when you do the maths/breakdown on the income and the expenditure (which even our Minister for Finance is totally agreeing with, as in I mean that families in Ireland today on 100K income are barely getting by, see 2nd link above), you would wonder how any single income family on 35K plus, can do anything or provide the basic family necessities in what is a high tax and a high cost economy.

It probably seems like I've wandered off topic here on my own thread that I've started but this is the kind of stuff that would make me terrified of ever getting into a serious relationship again and in particular, starting a family. I do go on regular dates (do a bit of online and offline dating and have no problems there with meeting women my own age and getting 2nd, 3rd and subsequent dates), but it tends to only last a few weeks or a month or two at the absolute maximum, before there is always this (not unreasonable) expectation on the part of a girl, of "ok is this going somewhere or are we just sauntering along carelessly here or what's the story here with 'us'". At that point, I'm usually already looking for an exit strategy or am already pouring a lot of cold emotional water over what I had been running with up until "that" conversation is had.

Then another part of me holds out a tiny bit of hope (hence why I still do the dating thing), that some day I'll meet a girl and there will be this overwhelming and pretty mush instant, attraction, that we will just "get" each other from the outset and the whole thing will just make sense in a minute, and things that I currently fear, (failing at provision, having seriously sick kids), I will then maybe warm to and possibly even embrace.

I have to clarify that I'm very much single by choice, I have opportunities to get into serious relationships (via going on dates), but I abandon those opportunities every single time, for the reasons I've set out above, in particular the genuine fear I would now have at this stage of my life, of having kids and having deep seated emotional concerns about being able to be a good provider, in a country where a couple on 100K a year are struggling to live week to week in the words of our Minister for Finance. I also strangely worry about my age, a potential partners age and the well known elevated risks (risks that rise fairly rapidly after a girl is in late 30's), that come with pregnancy at that age, and I've never really dated women that are much different in age than myself.

I know this isn't the Personal issues" forum, but I am curious if other single guys my own age or similar (I suppose you could call that the 30's & 40's category), are reading the current economic landscape in the same way, and come to the same conclusions, in the context of them being single guys who are looking to the future and wondering what options are lying ahead for them?

fits

Its not just men with those fears I can tell you.

LordNorbury

fits wrote: »

Its not just men with those fears I can tell you.

Most, actually all of my friends that I discuss this with, (most are settled down with kids), they always say the same thing, that "it just all works out at the end of the day, you 'make do', with what you have, basically that you do what you have to do and you'll always manage to make ends meet"...

But to me, that is a scary place to find yourself, in the times that we are living in, where you can be 2-3 months minimum, away from the reality of homelessness if you suffer a job loss or economic hardship or something along those lines.

At least if I'm not on a great wage, and if I don't have the luxury of having a big permanent job with all the assurances and certainties that come with having such a position, (and I used to be that guy 10 years ago), there is nobody else impacted by that reality apart from myself. (I'm self employed these days and my income tends to be variable)...

It probably sounds strange to a woman reading this, because I get told all the time, "omg, that is so silly, you can father kids when you are 60, you are so lucky, why do you have this view of things?"... But when is the last time you saw a 60 year old auld fella going out with a 30 year old woman?!? I know it does happen from time to time but it is the exception very much than the rule I think...

fits

Well I am in a long term relationship. We both have good jobs but mine is based abroad. I dont know how I will get back to Ireland in my career. I work on a contract basis. If I have children it would put my career at a huge step back or pause at least. I am outside of the tax system so have no safety net there in terms of PRSI. Not entitled to maternity benefit. That in turn would put a huge amount of pressure and responsibility on my partner. I started working late so I dont want to take a couple of years off to have children as I am already disadvantaged in terms of pension etc. I honestly do not know what to do about it. But it seems right now we cant afford to have children.

(oh and my parents had that sort of age gap. worked for them but i wouldn't recommend it)

LordNorbury

fits wrote: »

Well I am in a long term relationship. We both have good jobs but mine is based abroad. I dont know how I will get back to Ireland in my career. I work on a contract basis. If I have children it would put my career at a huge step back or pause at least. I am outside of the tax system so have no safety net there in terms of PRSI. Not entitled to maternity benefit. That in turn would put a huge amount of pressure and responsibility on my partner. I started working late so I dont want to take a couple of years off to have children as I am already disadvantaged in terms of pension etc. I honestly do not know what to do about it. But it seems right now we cant afford to have children.

(oh and my parents had that sort of age gap. worked for them but i wouldn't recommend it)

I'm a bit relieved to hear I'm not the only one with these views that are based on what sounds like a fairly cruel financial assessment of what I believe that I can, or in my case, cannot do or do not wish to do, for the future.

Knex*

LordNorbury wrote: »

I do go on regular dates (do a bit of online and offline dating and have no problems there with meeting women my own age and getting 2nd, 3rd and subsequent dates), but it tends to only last a few weeks or a month or two at the absolute maximum, before there is always this (not unreasonable) expectation on the part of a girl, of "ok is this going somewhere or are we just sauntering along carelessly here or what's the story here with 'us'". At that point, I'm usually already looking for an exit strategy or am already pouring a lot of cold emotional water over what I had been running with up until "that" conversation is had.

Then another part of me holds out a tiny bit of hope (hence why I still do the dating thing), that some day I'll meet a girl and there will be this overwhelming and pretty mush instant, attraction, that we will just "get" each other from the outset and the whole thing will just make sense in a minute, and things that I currently fear, (failing at provision, having seriously sick kids), I will then maybe warm to and possibly even embrace.

I have to clarify that I'm very much single by choice, I have opportunities to get into serious relationships (via going on dates), but I abandon those opportunities every single time, for the reasons I've set out above

The above pretty much describes me to a tee, actually. Although I would say its perhaps for slightly different reasons, in that you are worried about the whole starting a family thing, whereas I'm worried about getting into a serious relationship for the sake of it as I'm relatively young. As a result, I'm afraid that a serious relationship would get in the way of things, mainly work and travel.

For example, I've spent the last 6 months knowing that I am heading to the States for a year in September, so have seen it as largely pointless to let anything develop too much.

I can certainly relate, though, and in a few years time I think the above will still ring true for me, only then perhaps for the reasons you outline.

LordNorbury

Knex. wrote: »

The above pretty much describes me to a tee, actually. Although I would say its perhaps for slightly different reasons, in that you are worried about the whole starting a family thing, whereas I'm worried about getting into a serious relationship for the sake of it as I'm relatively young. As a result, I'm afraid that a serious relationship would get in the way of things, mainly work and travel.

For example, I've spent the last 6 months knowing that I am heading to the States for a year in September, so have seen it as largely pointless to let anything develop too much.

I can certainly relate, though, and in a few years time I think the above will still ring true for me, only then perhaps for the reasons you outline.

In my late 20's, I had the opportunity to travel with work on an assignment and I turned it down, ('cos I was in a very long term relationship at the time), so I certainly see where you are coming from there and your logic behind staying single as a matter of choice. If the last few years of my life in particular (and this could happen yet!), had played out differently, I'd probably be typing this post from Aussie, the US or Canada. Being single allows me at this juncture in my life, to decide to pack it all up and head off next month, if this is what I would like to do, although I've never really been bitten by the traveling bug I think, but here I am just a few short years off 40, thinking of going overseas for a year or two, options that were not really open to me a few years ago I think...

Knex*

LordNorbury wrote: »

In my late 20's, I had the opportunity to travel with work on an assignment and I turned it down, ('cos I was in a very long term relationship at the time), so I certainly see where you are coming from there and your logic behind staying single as a matter of choice. If the last few years of my life in particular (and this could happen yet!), had played out differently, I'd probably be typing this post from Aussie, the US or Canada. Being single allows me at this juncture in my life, to decide to pack it all up and head off next month, if this is what I would like to do, although I've never really been bitten by the traveling bug I think, but here I am just a few short years off 40, thinking of going overseas for a year or two, options that were not really open to me a few years ago I think...

I know the visa scenarios aren't as viable for Canada and Oz after a certain age, so I would say check that up as it may sway you one way or another.

For me when it comes to travelling, its a little odd. I'm not a tourist. In fact, I'm one of the least 'touristy' people around. When I lived in NY, I only did the site seeing out of some sense of obligation. I'm very much, "Oh, there's a thing. Lovely. Next!".

But I do love upping myself and moving somewhere completely different. I suppose I'm a grass is always greener type guy. Although I'm very much aware that in reality, the grass is rarely greener when I get there, but I love the walk.

I like the excitement in preparing to go, and I seem to like the turmoil when I get there. You kind of throw of the baggage of the last place, and start afresh, and right now in my life, I have no anchors or ties to one place so it suits me.

Best of luck in whatever you choose anyway, man.

LordNorbury

Knex. wrote: »

I know the visa scenarios aren't as viable for Canada and Oz after a certain age, so I would say check that up as it may sway you one way or another.

For me when it comes to travelling, its a little odd. I'm not a tourist. In fact, I'm one of the least 'touristy' people around. When I lived in NY, I only did the site seeing out of some sense of obligation. I'm very much, "Oh, there's a thing. Lovely. Next!".

But I do love upping myself and moving somewhere completely different. I suppose I'm a grass is always greener type guy. Although I'm very much aware that in reality, the grass is rarely greener when I get there, but I love the walk.

I like the excitement in preparing to go, and I seem to like the turmoil when I get there. You kind of throw of the baggage of the last place, and start afresh, and right now in my life, I have no anchors or ties to one place so it suits me.

Best of luck in whatever you choose anyway, man.

Thanks a mil for that Knex, I just missed out on the Canadian Visa by a year or so, the easy visa to get that is, but sure upwards & onwards!

gugleguy

Pug160 wrote: »

Just regarding people who seem to be eternally single: I'm not sure if it's quite as rare as some people imagine.......

.....I've been lucky enough in that I haven't had too much pressure or expectation put onto me like some people. Others aren't that fortunate it seems.

I'm single and I'm 42. I do get some pressure mainly from one lad who's only 3 years younger than me. But the fact that I live in Dublin city makes my situation that bit more tolerable too. I think there's more pressure on any gent if they like to be 'part of the herd', and they don't want to turned into an outcast, because they have'nt got a partner.

Bafucin

PROS- It makes you independent. Emotionally it helps to realize you can do it alone. You learn that single life should not simply be filling in time until you are ready for a relationship. You can and should attempt to make a difference in the world. Be kind do good. As one unit.

Cons. You do realize after a while that there are certain aspects of being human which can only be expressed as a couple. A satisfactory sex life is difficult to maintain as regularly as when you are with a girlfriend. I have to say maybe most will disagree but sex when I want it with one girl I am attracted to and love is always better than occasional sex maybe once a week with a stranger. And I am not going to lie a good sex life is part of it. If anything happens you are on your own and you feel it. You have an accident or whatever. There are sometimes only women can do. Affectionate things. I think being in a couple can bring out the best in your character. It brings another persons perspective and hobbies into your life and that can broaden you horizons.

All that being said. I think guys and women can be happy and fulfilled both in a couple and single. We probably make to big a deal of it.

As regards kids I am not going into that. It is a personal decision whether you want them I would never debate saying 'oh not having them is so great' that is obviously very personal some people want to be Dad's. Fair enough. But I do think people should consciously plan them more and realize the financial responsibility. Far more Irish people should be having one child not two. I notice other countries are doing this. It makes sense.

Wibbs

LordNorbury wrote: »

I know this isn't the Personal issues" forum, but I am curious if other single guys my own age or similar (I suppose you could call that the 30's & 40's category), are reading the current economic landscape in the same way, and come to the same conclusions, in the context of them being single guys who are looking to the future and wondering what options are lying ahead for them?

Not so much the financial aspect though seeing married mates of mine struggle with that at times would put the wind up you alright. That said if I won the lotto in the morning(unlikely as I never buy a ticket

) and that was no longer an issue, I'd still be extremely wary of getting into something longterm.

For a couple of reasons. For a start I've been single with staggered dalliances and a couple of longtermers(around the two year mark), but overall my mindset seems to be much more in the "single" camp than other men I know. I'm an only child and didn't really have much interaction with extended family growing up so family and domestic stuff is pretty alien to me. I can do it and have with the aforementioned longtermers but it didn't really come naturally to me TBH. It was "work" in a way, it wasn't comfortable like it should be. EG you know those Denny ads on the telly with the family gatherings with babies and old folks and all that? I may as well be observing Martians TBH and living that would be extremely uncomfortable for me. I just wouldn't fit into it. That wouldn't be fair to any normal partner who would.

Secondly I would not trust myself to make the right choices of who I'd fall for. Going on previous I am not a very good judge of the women I am attracted to. When the blood is supplying the willy and the heart my head goes on holiday. I could have so easily fallen into the "women be crazy bitches you can trust as far as you can throw them" idea that far too many blokes do buy into. Luckily I have and have had really good women friends, so I always had a solid baseline of very cool people that easily overpowered the other BS. Of course I wasn't into them. It seems I attract and am attracted to the neurotic in some way. Much more a reflection on me. And it's not as if I haven't met, even gone out with for a time, extremely clever, affectionate and very sound women who would make any man feel lucky to have as a GF or wife or whatever. Clearly I have a screw loose.

At 48 I've only being truly in love twice and there was a 15 odd year gap between them. I can fall in lust at the drop of a hat but that's all it is. I can fall in fond relatively easily but it grows no further and doesn't really last and becomes more platonic in nature on my side. The chances of me falling in love a third time at this stage are pretty slim.

I've never really wanted kids. Well not beyond a subconscious what if when I was in love. Most women(and men) do want a family. Even those I knew in my twenties who swore off the idea most stridently nearly always changed their minds later on. Not always, but near enough.

So in short, I'd not be "good husband material" and I would likely make a really bad choice of "wife material". The financial stuff would be a fair bit down the line of concerns.

howamidifferent

Wibbs wrote: »

At 48 I've only being truly in love twice and there was a 15 odd year gap between them. I can fall in lust at the drop of a hat but that's all it is. I can fall in fond relatively easily but it grows no further and doesn't really last and becomes more platonic in nature on my side. The chances of me falling in love a third time at this stage are pretty slim.

Seems to me your in a pretty good place at this point in your life.

Past the "pressures" of the 20 to 45 year stretch and open to whatever life brings at 48. I'm in pretty much the same place but I've had 2 failed marriages behind me, neither of which I regret. They are a part of my life experience.
Both lasted 11 years funnily enough

. And both left me skint.

But I'm loving being single again and all that life has to offer when you don't have to conform to the 9 to 5 of married life.

And while you say the chances of falling in love again at 48 are slim, I'm hopeful! :pac:

Wibbs

howamidifferent wrote: »

I'm in pretty much the same place but I've had 2 failed marriages behind me, neither of which I regret. They are a part of my life experience.
Both lasted 11 years funnily enough . And both left me skint.

Yea when I think back I do consider myself lucky that I didn't get hitched. One way back in the day might have lasted, but the others no way. Not when I've seen some of their subsequent antics. Given how many relationships fizzle out, or worse descend into rancour or boredom it's one helluva risk to take on the basis of horniness and love chemicals that run down for most after 2-4 years.

And while you say the chances of falling in love again at 48 are slim, I'm hopeful! :pac:

Oh I only meant for myself. Part of my nature is to see and look for patterns, so my "innocence" as it were is long gone. I can see the matrix so to speak. I don't get surprised. You're probably fine. You're an optimist anyway, after the first failed marriage I'd have become a monk.

[Deleted User]

Before I got married for the second time I met and had a few relationships with middle aged single men, both those who had been married before and had children and those who had never married.

This is my observation on men being single in their middle years.
If you want to have a good life you have to effort in to it more effort than when you were younger, because as the years go by more and more of your friends and family will get married and drift off to a different life.

Be careful of alcohol and drifting in to Sunday afternoon pints every week, and the pub as your only way of socialising, I dint think loneliness was a huge problem, people get use to being on their own and start to enjoy their own company.

Try to not get too delusional and adrift from reality about the type of woman you are attracted to and that would be attracted to you.

Have some sort of relationship with your family.

The single men I men with great lives tended to be very active and involved with something be it cycling, surfing, running and to have good friend and things going on in their lives other that the pub.

LordNorbury

Once or twice a year, one of my settled friends, usually a female partner of one of my mates, will have this brainwave idea of trying to set me up with one of their single female friends. This is always very well intentioned, and the friend in question will already have cobbled together a few well thought out reasons why they think we should meet up and "give it a shot", on the basis of, "hey we think you two would really get on brilliantly, you'd make a deadly couple..."

It's hard to explain to someone who you see as a friend, who is married or in a long term committed relationship, how you can be totally content with your lot as a single guy. I've found myself having to politely and respectfully decline the attempt to set me up with someone through the medium of a friend, because you actually have no desire whatsoever to get into a serious relationship, now or into the future, so what their friend is most likely seeking from a potential partner, (commitment, expectations, time, probably children in the short-medium term), and what I could bring to the table, (none of the former!), are in reality, two very different things. This has been a source of sheer wonderment to friends, when it has happened in the recent past, questions emerge like, "do you not get a pain in your hole being single and being on your own?", or "what's wrong, do you not fancy her, would you not give something a chance for once?!?", or even, "Do you think you might be suffering from depression?!?"...

I surely sound like the coldest guy in town, but a small bit of me does hope that some day I might just meet a girl, and these fears and these fairly embedded views at this stage, will just all evaporate and things that I used to believe in when I was in my 20's, (relationships and family life), would become possible again. I think before I got to my mid 30's, I was a "heart rules the head" guy, but now the head is very firmly at the controls, and I genuinely do put that down to the last 6 odd years of recessionary life in this country... I do still believe in love though and the potential for it to change lives in an instant, although I haven't experienced anything like that in years...

Sleepy

LordNorbury, in relation to the financial aspect. I'd be the main earner in my marriage, my wife works as a stay-at-home mother and as a childminder for a friend of the family. We wouldn't be earning anything near the 100k mark... probably in the 70's but with the advantages that I get her tax credits as her income is tax-free (first 10k of income as a child-minder is untaxed). Financially it's tough: my car is 12 years old, we're still renting, can't afford health-insurance, no pension etc. but like your friends have said: you get through it. Things have been getting better for us over the past year or so and I'm hoping we'll be in a position to turn most of those things around inside a couple of years.

The key thing that causes our financial troubles though, was a factor of our single lives: we were both terrible with money when we were younger and, as such, had no savings when we got together and are still paying back debt from boom-time credit card spending. My biggest regret in life is that I never listened to the old adage of putting 10% of every pay-cheque into the bank. I could have enjoyed my 20's just as much without going into debt during them had I just been less inclined to splash the cash on silly things like rounds of shots that nobody in the group I was drinking with really wanted, taxis that only saved me 15/20 minutes over the bus, eating out for lunch every day instead of bringing it from home / grabbing a roll from a deli, taking the train to Galway because I preferred it to the bus that cost half the price etc.

Had we both had a little more sense in our 20's, we still wouldn't be rich, but we certainly wouldn't be looking at empty bank accounts in the last week of every month and would more than likely own our own home, have health insurance etc.

Speaking to my 20 year old self, I wouldn't tell him to avoid serious relationships for the fear of the financial consequences of family life, I'd tell him to prepare for them.

Maximus Alexander

I was never a fan of being single, I've been in long term relationships most of my adult life. The last time I was single there were things I did enjoy about it, and I'd certainly say you're better off single than being with the wrong person.

However, I think if you're with the right person a lot of the perceived negatives that I've seen in this thread simply don't exist. The problem is, finding someone who is a really good fit for you is a hard thing and probably involves a lot of luck, so people end up settling for relationships that curb them rather than encourage them out of fear of being alone.

I've been very lucky. My girlfriend and I want very similar things from our lives, we make one another laugh, we've traveled the world together, we praise and encourage one another rather than trying to change or control, we don't monopolize one another's time and are both free to socialize and spend our free time as we wish, together or apart. Then there are the obvious financial benefits of splitting everything two ways, and the time benefits of splitting household tasks between two people.

I've been in relationships that weren't like this though, and I can absolutely see why if all of your relationships were like that you'd prefer to be on your own.

The last time I was single I was much more motivated to get out and try new things, meet new people and generally be social - so I was probably having more fun in an average week. I find in a long term relationship you can get very comfortable, and for me, that means perhaps a bit lazy. So that's definitely a drawback, but that's not her fault, it's something I need to think about forcing myself to change.

LordNorbury

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I was never a fan of being single, I've been in long term relationships most of my adult life. The last time I was single there were things I did enjoy about it, and I'd certainly say you're better off single than being with the wrong person.

However, I think if you're with the right person a lot of the perceived negatives that I've seen in this thread simply don't exist. The problem is, finding someone who is a really good fit for you is a hard thing and probably involves a lot of luck, so people end up settling for relationships that curb them rather than encourage them out of fear of being alone.

I've been very lucky. My girlfriend and I want very similar things from our lives, we make one another laugh, we've traveled the world together, we praise and encourage one another rather than trying to change or control, we don't monopolize one another's time and are both free to socialize and spend our free time as we wish, together or apart. Then there are the obvious financial benefits of splitting everything two ways, and the time benefits of splitting household tasks between two people.

I've been in relationships that weren't like this though, and I can absolutely see why if all of your relationships were like that you'd prefer to be on your own.

The last time I was single I was much more motivated to get out and try new things, meet new people and generally be social - so I was probably having more fun in an average week. I find in a long term relationship you can get very comfortable, and for me, that means perhaps a bit lazy. So that's definitely a drawback, but that's not her fault, it's something I need to think about forcing myself to change.

Have to say, I was previously in two (consecutive) very long term relationships and I was hugely happy in those set ups. Ok, neither ultimately worked out for their own respective reasons, which I've no problem with these days, and by that I mean that I don't think that I hold any bitterness regarding the past or that my reasons for being single and happy today, are in any way connected to a previous relationship.

My reasons for not wanting a relationship today, are more down to the economic times we are living in, which I think are truly extraordinary and exceptional, than anything to do with previous relationships or relationship experiences, just wanted to clarify that for the discussion...

fits

I dunno if you are overestimating financial hardship though? I think you can achieve a lot with prudent management. Neither of us have debts now and we are going to do our best to stay that way (excepting mortgage). I am more concerned about long term career prospects than anything else, but that's a major issue for women, not so much for men.

ancapailldorcha

fits wrote: »

I dunno if you are overestimating financial hardship though? I think you can achieve a lot with prudent management. Neither of us have debts now and we are going to do our best to stay that way (excepting mortgage). I am more concerned about long term career prospects than anything else, but that's a major issue for women, not so much for men.

Are you referring to having kids when you say that?

Wibbs

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

I was never a fan of being single, I've been in long term relationships most of my adult life. The last time I was single there were things I did enjoy about it, and I'd certainly say you're better off single than being with the wrong person.

However, I think if you're with the right person a lot of the perceived negatives that I've seen in this thread simply don't exist. The problem is, finding someone who is a really good fit for you is a hard thing and probably involves a lot of luck, so people end up settling for relationships that curb them rather than encourage them out of fear of being alone.

True. I'd MA reckon you're an example of someone whose nature is in the relationship camp, unlike mine that's in the single camp. Both natures/worldviews tend to be self fulfilling in my experience. Folks who are good in longtermers are more flexible, more open and happier around people more of the time and seek that out. Not freaks like me

I never really sought it. Fun yes, sex yes, beyond that not nearly so much. And when more happened on a couple of occasions I did get into it well enough, but they were better fits for my mindset.

Actually that's another aspect of this; the pool of people, women in our case, that would fit with us. We could both go on ten dates and I suspect you'd find more common ground with more of the ten than I might and vice versa. My pool is smaller. I know a chap who is the antiWibbs

. If you picked ten random women in his general age and background he'd be attracted to and be attractive to five of them.

I would say it's a nature pretty much formed by the time you reach adulthood. I've been always like this pretty much. Looking back I think when I was younger I was trying to fit in to the normal healthier narrative like yours. That's the thing about being outside the norm, you don't advertise it, you try to fit in. Joke is, for all that I have been told by exes that I'm a pretty good boyfriend and a couple even paid me the compliment that they gauged guys after me on the basis of that.

Where I do feel great sympathy for are those men who are looking for relationships and have a big gap in their lives because they're not in one. That must be really bloody tough. LordNorbury I get the vibe you're much more like that than you are like me. OK the financial stuff is an issue, or can be, but people do generally muddle through it.

Maximus Alexander

Wibbs wrote: »

I would say it's a nature pretty much formed by the time you reach adulthood. I've been always like this pretty much. Looking back I think when I was younger I was trying to fit in to the normal healthier narrative like yours. That's the thing about being outside the norm, you don't advertise it, you try to fit in. Joke is, for all that I have been told by exes that I'm a pretty good boyfriend and a couple even paid me the compliment that they gauged guys after me on the basis of that.

Great post Wibbs, but I think you're being rather harsh on yourself and people like you by using words like "normal" and "healthier" do describe another lifestyle. If you're happy living the way you live then that is what is normal and healthy for you. In my view it could only be construed as unhealthy if it was making you miserable, and it certainly doesn't appear to be.

I think a lot of people are naturally drawn towards coupling and so it has become a social norm and that, in turn, puts pressure on people who don't want that to conform anyway or else feel like an outsider. But that's a problem with social and human nature rather than with you!

LordNorbury

Wibbs wrote: »

LordNorbury I get the vibe you're much more like that than you are like me. OK the financial stuff is an issue, or can be, but people do generally muddle through it.

You know Wibbs I'm still struggling with answering that one myself lol, I think traditionally I would have been... In the past I was the quintessential relationship guy, when my college mates were all single, I was the guy who was in the happy long term relationship. Then in my mid-late 20's, when work colleagues and mates were all out on the lash trying to find someone, and doing the pubs & clubs thing, I had a long term girlfriend, don't get me wrong, we still socialised with these friends and I never felt out of sync with friends because of my long term relationship status, both worked together very well looking back.

If you had suggested to me 10 or 15 years ago that I would be happily single 5 odd years now at my age, I would have fallen off the chair laughing at you! Even in my late teens, I had a clear vision of my life with a loving partner and a few kids and a house in the country on a site of land, this vision was really clear all throughout my 20's and well into my 30's...

I suppose I had never previously been single and of course it was a struggle emotionally when I first found myself single, it can take a few years to adjust, but by Jaysis, adjust I did, and I sometimes wonder did I complete the adjustment too successfully or something, because I don't recognise the "old me", so to speak, I'm a completely different person as a single guy, than I was as a relationship guy... I've embraced single life in a way that I never previously thought that I would.

I have obviously been thinking a lot about all of this in the last while, and I've come to believe, or at least I suspect strongly, that with online dating, and social media, and the way that everyone is connected to everyone else these days, it is changing the very nature of human relationships. I wonder do people need relationships these days, when everything that we previously used to associate with a relationship, is available now outside of a relationship, this sounds strange but it genuinely applies to loads of things, for women as well as for men. If you want a child (as a woman), you can travel to the UK and get a fertility treatment and be pregnant within a few months if you are lucky. I was logging into a well known dating site recently and there is this banner advertising a sperm clinic in the UK advertising "1,300 Euro and be pregnant within a month!"... I was chatting to a girl recently on a dating site who had a child through this method, and she was (rightfully), unapologetic about the fact that for maternal purposes, she had decided to completely short circuit the whole dating and trying to meet someone thing, and just go and get pregnant herself. Now with a kid, she is focusing on trying to meet a long term partner.

For guys, the things that you used to need a relationship for, before you could have access to these things (most of the time!), things such as companionship, intimacy, dates, etc, these things are now available to most single people via online dating, actually you could argue, more than they are available to committed couples. I dunno, sometimes I think the world has turned on its head, in a funny sort of a way, when it comes to relationship and technology has changed things hugely I reckon, in recent years...

fits

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Are you referring to having kids when you say that?

Yes.

ancapailldorcha

fits wrote: »

Yes.

Fair enough.

Dial Hard

As a 32-year-old single woman, these threads always make for really depressing reading. The major vibe I'm taking away from this is that the vast majority (not, all, obviously, but still a vast majority) of men in my dating "demographic" are very wary of women my age because it's presumed that we're all absolutely dying to have kids and pack in the job at the first opportunity. Obviously, I can only speak for myself, but I've already been married and I have absolutely zero interest in having childen. Ever. But I feel (and have done for quite a while) that I'm getting tarred with the "biological clock is ticking" and "all women are, at heart, lazy cows who just want to stay at home" brush. And it's frustrating in the extreme.

I'm not going to lie, if I won the lotto on Wednesday, the first thing I'd do is pack in my job. But I am categorically not looking for a financial caretaker of a man. And frankly, none of the women in my circle of friends/family are. Perhaps my experience is not the norm, but there isn't one stay-at-home wife or mother in my extended group.

Sleepy

I've yet to meet a man who thinks that way of all women. The problem stems from the fact that a man is utterly powerless if he does find himself snared by one of those toxic women who, once they've had the wedding cake and the kids, lose all interest in sex yet continue to expect to be kept in the lap of luxury.

Given the risks of geriatric pregnancy, a woman in her early 30's is a poor bet if a man wants children at some stage as, unless he's prepared to play roulette with his future off-springs health, he doesn't have very long to determine if the fun-loving, independent sex-kitten he's dating is going to turn into the over-weight, demanding banshee that has no interest in sex once she's had his kids.

It's not necessarily anything to do with deciding to stay at home either: I live next door to a couple that are a textbook example of the "marry in haste, repent at leisure" scenario of a guy in his early 40's marrying a woman in her late 30's that married and had kids fast. Both work but I can't imagine any circumstances under which he'd have married her if she'd exposed her true nature prior to the wedding and he'd had a taste of what we can hear through the (fairly solid) adjoining wall on a regular basis. I'm honestly half-expecting a knock on the door from a Garda after either she lets fly with something more than her voice or he finally snaps and throttles her.

It's like russian rouletted: the odds of a romantic relationship going that badly wrong are low, but the consequences for a man can be devastating (and heavily disproportionate to the outcomes a women can expect in marital breakdown).