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Can we kill Irish once and for all

shane7218

I think its time to stop with the stupidity of forcing people to sit an Irish exam for the leaving cert. It's fine for the Junior but how is it fair that you have to do it for an exam that determines the college course you get ?. It's long overdue to add technology related exams such as Programming exams which are actually useful.

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shane7218

Hotfail.com wrote: »

Look at your thread title.

:P

If you named it "Should Irish be made optional after the Junior Cert?" the thread would be much tidier and less angry. :pac:

Well as far as I'm concerned when It becomes optional that will kill it. I predict the uptake for it will be very low but some people here seem confident it will be fine so let's find out :pac:

AngryHippie

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

E
It makes very little sense to have students sit through classes learning a language they neither want to learn or have no affinity for........ But the language remains lovely and unique and precious. So the subject should be taught at primary level with a soft touch. Less rote learning of what are very obscure verb tables. The best thing that could happen to the development of the language is the removal of the idea that being able to speak Irish is associated with Nationalism, Republicanism and the idea we all dance at crossroads while eating mouldy spuds.

Every language has verb structures and obscure tables in them (every language I've ever come across anyway)
Nobody will develop an affinity for a language without being able to understand it, and use it. Part of the problem with Irish as it was taught was not conversing in it in the classroom (primary school, happened for one year for me with a teacher from Clare) when I hit secondary school this changed entirely and the entire proceedings (1 hour a day) were conducted in Irish, and I have to say it changed my whole approach to it, instead of the tedious verbs, vocabulary, comhra and garbage I was fed at Primary, It came to life, and grew a purpose, then poetry, literature and music were brought into it, and thats where the passion and affinity came from.
As to the connection to nationalism and republicanism, that will always exist, as the people that kept the language alive in it's darkest of days were motivated largely by nationalist and republican motives, hence the connection. I don't think it bares any real relevance to the majority of Irish Speakers/Users today.

131spanner

shane7218 wrote: »

Well as far as I'm concerned when It becomes optional that will kill it. I predict the uptake for it will be very low but some people here seem confident it will be fine so let's find out :pac:

And you see nothing wrong with the complete loss of the language..?

shruikan2553

Hotfail.com wrote: »

How was that trolling? I like Irish, it's our language.

Might be yours but I only have one language and thats english.

gctest50

Chancer3001 wrote: »

............
Cons - a 12 year old is interested in sweet feck all.
.........

You nailed it
- need to dump religion classes too and use the time for stuff like this
- make it interesting / show how all the stuff they're learning ties together , fill in the gaps and and and and

.

AngryHippie

gctest50 wrote: »

Latin is very very useful in the right places cos its dead.

Absolutely, but study of it is an entirely academic exercise

gctest50 wrote: »

Don't remember a Pentium in my family tree

That has gone over my head.

Hotfail.com

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Might be yours but I only have one language and thats english.

If Irish dies here it dies everywhere.

That's why I believe it's "ours" - as in Ireland's - language.

solomafioso

shruikan2553 wrote: »

Might be yours but I only have one language and thats english.

Might want to start learning another one...just in case! :pac:

Shakespeare's Sister

shane7218 wrote: »

I think its time to stop with the stupidity of forcing people to sit an Irish exam for the leaving cert.

Yeh I think that applies to any subject for the leaving cert and pupils should be able to pick whatever subjects they want.

shane7218

Magaggie wrote: »

Yeh I think that applies to any subject for the leaving cert and pupils should be able to pick whatever subjects they want.

Yes I agree, college's can set requirement's for subjects relevant to that course and then people will be much more prepared for the next stage of their life

endacl

shane7218 wrote: »

But what use is it ...For all intensive purpose's its a dead language

'Intents and purposes'? Your English look to be on shaky ground too...

:pac:

shane7218

endacl wrote: »

'Intents and purposes'? Your English look to be on shaky ground too...

:pac:

Typing on a phone

endacl

shane7218 wrote: »

Typing on a phone

That doesn't excuse the apostrophe storm!

:mad:

gctest50

Peig is terrible drivel and misery - :

My sorrow, isn't it many a twist life does! Isn't Youth fine!
-but alas! she cannot be held always! She slips away as
the water slips away from the sand of the shore. A person
falls into age unknown to himself. I think there are no two
jewels more valuable than Youth and Health. There's me
now, sat in a heap on a green sward beside the house,

Compared to

Gallic Wars Book 1

All Gaul is divided into three parts

- next bit ought to be "not for f***ing long"

House of Blaze

I dunno shane, i think you're taking a little more flak than perhaps you should for floating the idea.

While I would agree that there is of course merit in the preservation and development of the national heritage, I must admit that there is no fully rational or logical reason for it to be a compulsory part of the education system.

Others have discussed how there are other subjects on the curriculum that are 'useless' in the real world, and I would debate near every one of them.

English is not so much about the language itself, (more's the pity I would say) but in appreciation and critical examination of literature. This not only helps develop critical and analytical skills but also exposes students to significant literary works, a part of education that will always be valuable.

History teaches students how to apply knowledge in understanding the real world issues of the world today, by examining the train of events that have led to them in the past, something that is hardly useless in the globalised geopolitical system that is the earth today. Also, history teaches students skills such as research and the value of non literary writing.

Geography teaches students about the natural processes that shape our world, as well as the sociological effects that geography have on economics and exposes them to field based and experimental research via the field study etc.

I would argue that each of these disciplines have merit in and of themselves, as opposed to what I would consider the 'cultural' value that Irish has.

It's possibly worth noting that Irish was on the way out before as well, but was reinstated as part of the drive to reforge the national identity which came about during the rise of Irish nationalism etc. (thanks history!

) and was basically forced onto people then in a brute force effort of the newly formed Irish government to supercede British culture and was entirely politically motivated.

Alternating Current

It's quite pathetic that we come out of school unable to converse in Irish. The education needs to hire Benny Lewis to help create a curriculum that teaches Irish properly.

shane7218

Alternating Current wrote: »

It's quite pathetic that we come out of school unable to converse in Irish. The education needs to hire Benny Lewis to help create a curriculum that teaches Irish properly.

What's the point of learning a language no one speaks? If people chose to for whatever reasons that's great but it should not be forced

Ka_yl_ei_gh

Tír gan teanga, tír gan anam.

kylith

shane7218 wrote: »

What's the point of learning a language no one speaks? If people chose to for whatever reasons that's great but it should not be forced

No-one speaks it because it's not taught properly. Honestly, 16 years of a language and all most people can do is ask to go to the toilet.

If anything schools need more Irish. Every school should be a Gaelscoil.

looksee

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

A good memory ie the ability to retain a large quantity of knowledge and recall it at will is a big part of intelligence.

No, it isn't. It is a big part of giving the impression of intelligence.

shane7218

looksee wrote: »

No, it isn't. It is a big part of giving the impression of intelligence.

I can only speak for my own profession but intelligence != memory I agree. You can learn off an entire programming language into memory but still doesn't make you any good at applying it and I'm sure that is the same across almost all industries.

Alternating Current

shane7218 wrote: »

What's the point of learning a language no one speaks? If people chose to for whatever reasons that's great but it should not be forced

If we all speak it then we cold speak it amongst one another. Within a year of teaching properly students would be fluent. It's good for our national identity, it's a bit pathetic that we can't speak our own language.

Grayson

Alternating Current wrote: »

It's quite pathetic that we come out of school unable to converse in Irish. The education needs to hire Benny Lewis to help create a curriculum that teaches Irish properly.

Benny Hill would do better than our lot.

Before asking should irish be taught until leaving cert we need to ask if it can be. I think the last 60 years have shown a dismal failure to teach the language and continuing is just a waste of time and effort.

shane7218

Alternating Current wrote: »

If we all speak it then we cold speak it amongst one another. Within a year of teaching properly students would be fluent. It's good for our national identity, it's a bit pathetic that we can't speak our own language.

But not everyone wants to. How would you feel If I forced you to take a programming subject ?. I bet a lot of people would have a problem with that

Alternating Current

Grayson wrote: »

Benny Hill would do better than our lot.

Before asking should irish be taught until leaving cert we need to ask if it can be. I think the last 60 years have shown a dismal failure to teach the language and continuing is just a waste of time and effort.

There's no need to teach it until the leaving cert, we should be able to make children fluent by the time they are 12. All that has to be done is get teach properly, when designing the curriculum take advice from polyglot such as Benny lewis whose website is fluent in 3 months.

Alternating Current

shane7218 wrote: »

But not everyone wants to. How would you feel If I forced you to take a programming subject ?. I bet a lot of people would have a problem with that

Not everyone wants to speak English, not everyone wants to learn maths. What's overall best for society and individuals is how we should taylor our curriculum.

shane7218

Alternating Current wrote: »

Not everyone wants to speak English, not everyone wants to learn maths. What's overall best for society and individuals is how we should taylor our curriculum.

And how is learning an almost dead language good for our society. It has NO benefit at all

Grayditch

I still think it should be mandatory. It'll die if it's not and that would be a shame.

Jesus how lazy are people, it's not even that hard to learn.

Dan_Solo

I've nothing against Irish. I quite like it and did it for the Leaving when I didn't have to.
I would still turf it off every official document and stop teaching it in school though. It's a hobby language.

Dan_Solo

Grayditch wrote: »

I still think it should be mandatory. It'll die if it's not and that would be a shame.

Jesus how lazy are people, it's not even that hard to learn.

Lots of other things aren't hard to learn and might actually serve a useful purpose at some stage in your life.
Irish? Nah.