nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Property tax will be taken from wages and pensions...

Buzz Killington the third

This isn't a thread about people not paying tax or should have paid up, bla bla etc etc...

According to this article on the journal, the government have instructed over 40,000 companies so far to deduct the tax from people's wages. I received one of these letters 2 weeks ago and discarded it because I thought it was sent in error as I'd paid the tax. Looking at the comments on the journal article a lot of people are in the same situation and better yet, we now have to call revenue and sit on hold for however long it takes them to get to the call and then tell them we've actually paid so please don't take our money!

In today's age where everything is automated, how can government departments still f*ck up so monumentally?

http://www.thejournal.ie/property-tax-letters-tell-people-it-will-be-taken-from-their-wages-1547501-Jul2014/

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

ScumLord

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Press 2 and you get an answering machine stating the lines are closed until whatever time because they're busy, then call back later and you're on hold for 30 minutes but sure then you'll have to fill out a few forms anyway.

You get the same message if you call the passport office, I think it's been the same message for the past 2 years. 2 years they've been too busy to answer the phone. They also don't answer emails and the tracking system on the website they keep directing you too doesn't update at all.

flutered

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Case in hand, phone the revenue about a PRSI issue and you'll get greeted by the options like:

Press 1 to pay your property tax
Press 2 for PRSI related queries

Press 1 and you can make a payment. Press 2 and you get an answering machine stating the lines are closed until whatever time because they're busy, then call back later and you're on hold for 30 minutes but sure then you'll have to fill out a few forms anyway.

that is in case anyone could be accountable.

flutered

ScumLord wrote: »

You get the same message if you call the passport office, I think it's been the same message for the past 2 years. 2 years they've been too busy to answer the phone. They also don't answer emails and the tracking system on the website they keep directing you too doesn't update at all.

again no one answers so no one is responsible for anything, its the p.s. what do people expect, answers, yeah ted.

[Deleted User]

comongethappy wrote: »

Got the payroll deduction notice yesterday.

Didn't pay the LPT because we received no notification/invoice/bill asking we do so!

I've no issue paying, but they could at least ask first.

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

That's the nub of the issue. Why did nobody receive bills if they owe money?

When my var tax is up I get a notice. Insurance the same. The ESB bill me and Board Gas too.
Maybe it's because I paid Stamp Duty, Income Tax etc and they don't want to admit that its a double tax.

Valetta

tayto lover wrote: »

That's the nub of the issue. Why did nobody receive bills if they owe money?

When my var tax is up I get a notice. Insurance the same. The ESB bill me and Board Gas too.
Maybe it's because I paid Stamp Duty, Income Tax etc and they don't want to admit that its a double tax.

It's a self assessment tax, same as most others.

tayto lover

Valetta wrote: »

It's a self assessment tax, same as most others.

What was Stamp Duty for?

K-9

BeerWolf wrote: »

It's Ireland, our Government is incompetent.

Revenue are usually pretty decent, one of the easier departments to deal with, but they've made a balls of the property tax. Not helped by Government inaction, fudge and incompetence in implementing the thing and very poor records and information in other departments. In many ways, Revenue is the fall guy here.

In short, the Government made an omnishambles with the LPT, Revenue have to implement the damn, bloody thing.

comongethappy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

Because I didn't receive a bill asking me to.
So I forgot.... That's the mindset: 'Get a bill = pay it..... Don't hear a thing = Forget.

I'm not sure what part of this is tricky to understand.

Valetta

tayto lover wrote: »

What was Stamp Duty for?

For the transfer of a property from one person to another.

[Deleted User]

comongethappy wrote: »

Because I didn't receive a bill asking me to.
So I forgot.... That's the mindset: 'Get a bill = pay it..... Don't hear a thing = Forget.

I'm not sure what part of this is tricky to understand.

The fact that it was all over the Newspapers, TV, Radio and Internet Forums. Joe Duffy for one was in his element teasing out peoples stories about how paying this charge would affect them!
It's a self assesment tax. As for those who have paid, send a copy of the receipt to Revenue. If this isn't enough, let them take you to court and show the Judge your proof.

flutered

Deleted User wrote: »

If you've no issue paying, then why didn't you? Now you've to pay double! NOONE got a bill, yet over 90% of homeowners paid.

if 90% has paid how come there is still a ra-ra about it, anyone on a gov pension has had deductions.

Ray Palmer

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

I have paid my property tax to revenue. How can the system now decide that I haven't?

No a letter was sent with text allowing you to correct their records. Ignore it and you get charged again.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

All of which could be solved with a post-code..but that's a whole other story about government incompetence..

Not really it has been announced and done and now just needs to be rolled out. The main problem with addresses was always the public adding and subtracting parts of their addresses along with changing/misspelling names combined with mixing Irish and English together.

markpb

comongethappy wrote: »

Because I didn't receive a bill asking me to.
So I forgot.... That's the mindset: 'Get a bill = pay it..... Don't hear a thing = Forget.

I'm not sure what part of this is tricky to understand.

It's easy to understand but unfortunately, for you, LPT is a self-assessed tax (like most countries) so it's up to you to be aware of it and pay it (like most countries). LPT isn't the first self-assessed tax in Ireland but it will be the first for many PAYE taxpayers. Ultimately one of your obligations as a property owner is to know to pay the tax.

No Pants

comongethappy wrote: »

We get notified about the RTE tax & motor tax, but for some reason they don't bother with LPT.

Anyone know how much it would cost to send at least one letter to each household in the country? Even a rough estimate?

According to the CSO, there were 1,658,243 households in the country in 2011. Multiplying that number by €0.60 (price of a stamp) gives me €994,945.80. That's assuming that the government pays the full price for each stamp, which they probably won't and excludes the cost of producing the letter and handing it over to An Post.

Normally the complaint is that the government wastes public money; are we now asking them to?

dxhound2005

There was no need to send a bill for the Household Charge. It was €100 for everyone and people had 18 months to pay it. Legislation was passed to require home owners by law to register and pay. That was the point of the whole Don't Register, Don't Pay CAHWT campaign. Where have CAHWT gone? They assured the country that there would be no consequences for anyone who followed their advice. They even said that they had a team of lawyers ready to take on the Government if the scenario which is unfolding now ever came to pass.

CAHWT must go down in the history of the state as the biggest omnishambles and completely ineffective campaign of all time. And as many of us predicted here they would be long gone when the time came for people to pay double the money.

tayto lover

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There was no need to send a bill for the Household Charge. It was €100 for everyone and people had 18 months to pay it. Legislation was passed to require home owners by law to register and pay. That was the point of the whole Don't Register, Don't Pay CAHWT campaign. Where have CAHWT gone? They assured the country that there would be no consequences for anyone who followed their advice. They even said that they had a team of lawyers ready to take on the Government if the scenario which is unfolding now ever came to pass.

CAHWT must go down in the history of the state as the biggest omnishambles and completely ineffective campaign of all time. And as many of us predicted here they would be long gone when the time came for people to pay double the money.

Big Phil or Happy Gilmour ? Who do you think will get the big payback for crucifying their own people?

[Deleted User]

tayto lover wrote: »

Big Phil or Happy Gilmour ? Who do you think will get the big payback for crucifying their own people?

The People would be crucified for sure if the Country kept borrowing as it had been, just to keep the country in day to day spending. Broadening the tax base is the only solution. We ALL must play our part in getting Ireland back on track.

No Pants

dxhound2005 wrote: »

CAHWT must go down in the history of the state as the biggest omnishambles and completely ineffective campaign of all time.

I don't know. The "Omnishambles" category is an oversubscribed one.

tayto lover

No Pants wrote: »

I don't know. The "Omnishambles" category is an oversubscribed one.

You could put Hogan and Dicey Reilly in that category too.

tayto lover

Deleted User wrote: »

The People would be crucified for sure if the Country kept borrowing as it had been, just to keep the country in day to day spending. Broadening the tax base is the only solution. We ALL must play our part in getting Ireland back on track.

The people do not need to be hit so severely imo.
They could lighten up on the austerity and taxes and give the people and business breathing room. If they had any balls they would tell their masters in Europe that they will get their blood-money but just not yet but in their effort to be the poster-boys anything is likely form this shower.

dar100

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

Case in hand, phone the revenue about a PRSI issue and you'll get greeted by the options like:

Press 1 to pay your property tax
Press 2 for PRSI related queries

Press 1 and you can make a payment. Press 2 and you get an answering machine stating the lines are closed until whatever time because they're busy, then call back later and you're on hold for 30 minutes but sure then you'll have to fill out a few forms anyway.

Then press 1 but make a qurey regarding 2, always works for me

Hootanany

Deleted User wrote: »

The People would be crucified for sure if the Country kept borrowing as it had been, just to keep the country in day to day spending. Broadening the tax base is the only solution. We ALL must play our part in getting Ireland back on track.

http://euranetplus-inside.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/maire-geoghegan-quinn-eu-commissioner.jpg

why not ask her to do her bit

No Pants

dar100 wrote: »

Then press 1 but make a qurey regarding 2, always works for me

I generally make the genuine selection at the top level. If further options are then presented, then my time is being wasted and I just choose the sales options. They're staffed to answer the phone quicker as there's revenue in that. Then I say the phone system must have made a mistake and they transfer me to who I need to talk to. I don't think it gets me speaking to my intended audience any faster, but I refuse to dance.

comongethappy

Hootanany wrote: »

http://euranetplus-inside.eu/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/maire-geoghegan-quinn-eu-commissioner.jpg

why not ask her to do her bit

What would you have her do?

markpb

No Pants wrote: »

Anyone know how much it would cost to send at least one letter to each household in the country? Even a rough estimate?

The main problem is the government (apparently) doesn't know who owns what land so they can't write to all the property owners to ask them to pay tax. At best they could ask An Post to write to everyone in the country but that would be a circular which most people ignore and would miss anyone not living in the country. In either case, since it's not sent by registered post, what happens if a letter goes missing, if an owner pretends it went missing or if they refuse to accept delivery of it?

The other problem is that the cost of sending a letter is far more than the cost of the stamp. Someone has to write the letter, print the letter, put it in an envelope, frank it, sort the delivery bags and arrange for An Post to collect it. As an example, the average cost for a utility company in the UK to send a refund cheque to a customer is £3.50 and that doesn't include the cost of the actual refund.

UCDVet

I spent months trying to get them to refund the 300 euro they deducted from my paycheck.

And I don't own anything. I've never owned property in Ireland. Didn't stop them from taking it and making me jump through endless hoops to try and get it back. Absolutely disgusting. Not even an apology.

Can you imagine if I stole money from a rich person and then asked them to call a phone number, write a letter, contact their companies HR department, have them send in a form, oh, and resend the letter, because they swear they never got it? Yeah - of course not.

dxhound2005

markpb wrote: »

The main problem is the government (apparently) doesn't know who owns what land so they can't write to all the property owners to ask them to pay tax. At best they could ask An Post to write to everyone in the country but that would be a circular which most people ignore and would miss anyone not living in the country.

The other problem is that the cost of sending a letter is far more than the cost of the stamp. Someone has to write the letter, print the letter, put it in an envelope, frank it, sort the delivery bags and arrange for An Post to collect it. As an example, the average cost for a utility company in the UK to send a refund cheque to a customer is £3.50 and that doesn't include the cost of the actual refund.

There was no need to keep a register of property for the purpose of property tax in this country after 1977 when it (Domestic Rates) was abolished. The Land Registry does have records of who owns what.

They got round that by passing legislation requiring all home owners to register their property and pay €100. In that legislation and in the newer LPT legislation there are provisions to take all money owed out of the proceeds of the sale of houses or out of the estate of the deceased when the property is bequeathed. These provisions are non time barred. All that would have happened if they sent out letters at the start is that Joe Duffy would be inundated with calls saying they sent a letter to my father who died 20 years ago.

micar

I work for a Life Assurance company and clients with annuities who did not pay the property tax had an amount deducted from their last annuity payment.

We had one client whose annuity is so small that after the property tax had been deducted, they had a negative payment.

Reformed Character

Buzz Killington the third wrote: »

This isn't a thread about people not paying tax or should have paid up, bla bla etc etc...

According to this article on the journal, the government have instructed over 40,000 companies so far to deduct the tax from people's wages. I received one of these letters 2 weeks ago and discarded it because I thought it was sent in error as I'd paid the tax. Looking at the comments on the journal article a lot of people are in the same situation and better yet, we now have to call revenue and sit on hold for however long it takes them to get to the call and then tell them we've actually paid so please don't take our money!

In today's age where everything is automated, how can government departments still f*ck up so monumentally?

http://www.thejournal.ie/property-tax-letters-tell-people-it-will-be-taken-from-their-wages-1547501-Jul2014/

To err is human but to really fúck up you need computers!:D