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Are we a nation of idiots?

BMMachine

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/movie-news/mrs-browns-boys-dmovie-takes-record-breaking-102m-at-the-irish-box-office-30394432.html

I want to say no. We have a great education system, we have provided culture with soul and depth to the world and produced some of the best artists in their generation.
But when I see this it really gets me thinking, why such low standards? We let politicians get away with f**king over entire generations and say "ah yeah" as if that slight sarcasm is what gives us a national identity. We pay extortionate amounts for things like transport and electricity and there is little we seem to be able to do about that and when push comes to shove, we feed minds on diets of filtered garbage like the aforementioned Mrs. Browns Boys.

The thing is, that shlock is only the latest in the long line of crap entertainment we have ingested over the years. Bad RTE talent shows, bad lowbrow reality shows (who remembers Fade Street), bad comedy and just a set of low low standards as to what entertainment and culture is. "Oh you can't sing or dance? Guess you are of no value. But wait, maybe we can stick you on a reality show because you seem like the kind of bellend that idiots would tune it to watch and complain about with their mates"

Jedward was an accepted thing.

There is a saying, you are what you eat and in a lot of ways thats true. You eat crap? you become crap. Your mind takes in crap? well guess what, those outward thoughts, yes, those opinions

become crap. I know its hard to avoid, just how this lowbrow pop culture seeps in from every crevice and the foreign imports, which seem infinite at this stage (from The Big Bang Theory to Geordie Shore) certainly don't help. But please, stop thinking that garbage is acceptable for your mind. There are other options out there, you dont have to watch, listen to or read the most available material. If the McDonalds is 5 minutes away and the farmers market is 10, do you eat at the McDonalds every day?

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RayM

Uh i dunno lol

Adamantium

This mightn'd be much consolation, but imagine if the likes of Carl Sagan, Einstein were born in a middle aged village, who hell would they share their ideas with out being cast out as lunatics?

I think have a niggling theory that a lot of our escape into fantasy fromthe 20th century on or low brow experiences has to do with numbing ourselves to the fact that we are very aware of our mortality in a way that our recent ancestors were not, we found out the world was only one of countless others and that the Lord didn't make it all specially for us or it wasn't created at all. It looks to be infinitely random and god damn that is hard to face black hole.

That's a humanity wide situation, we opened Pandora's box with science, and the majority are pretty damn dislusioned. I think.

We also don't know how to believe except ourselves and even then we're told it's just an "opinion". Indiffrent tolerance
People are just as dogmatic and convinced of their opinions now as the religions of old, but they have embraced the logically contradictory position that they are absolutely right in insisting that nobody is absolutely right

So no, not just Ireland's problem.

[Deleted User]

K-9 wrote: »

That asterick thing is fecking annoying!

*shrugs*

Sorry, I agree - it's very annoying

Valetta

Adamantium wrote: »

This mightn'd be much consolation, but imagine if the likes of Carl Sagan, Einstein were born in a middle aged village, who hell would they share their ideas with out being cast out as lunatics?

I think have a niggling theory that a lot of our escape into fantasy fromthe 20th century on or low brow experiences has to do with numbing ourselves to the fact that we are very aware of our mortality in a way that our recent ancestors were not, we found out the world was only one of countless others and that the Lord didn't make it all specially for us or it wasn't created at all. It looks to be infinitely random and god damn that is hard to face black hole.

That's a humanity wide situation, we opened Pandora's box with science, and the majority are pretty damn dislusioned. I think.

We also don't know how to believe except ourselves and even then we're told it's just an "opinion". Indiffrent tolerance
People are just as dogmatic and convinced of their opinions now as the religions of old, but they have embraced the logically contradictory position that they are absolutely right in insisting that nobody is absolutely right

So no, not just Ireland's problem.

Ah here

Awkward Badger

Makes me wonder the more I see this incessant moaning about and absolute ignorance of people pissing on those who watch Mrs Browne.

Its a TV show/Movie. If you don't like it don't watch it, problem solved. If you think those who watch it are idiots then tbh you're only displaying your own ignorance in making such dumb and ill founded generalisations.

Mrs Browns boys regardless of its comedy value is still imo an intellectual step above the mass hatred and hysteria over it which comes across a lot of the time as nothing but a vain and petty attempt to feel superior by scoffing at and denigrating those who watch it.

Son Of A Vidic

BMMachine wrote: »

Are we a nation of idiots?

No, but I'd say most of us are surrounded by them.

K-9

Adamantium wrote: »

This mightn'd be much consolation, but imagine if the likes of Carl Sagan, Einstein were born in a middle aged village, who hell would they share their ideas with out being cast out as lunatics?

I think have a niggling theory that a lot of our escape into fantasy fromthe 20th century on or low brow experiences has to do with numbing ourselves to the fact that we are very aware of our mortality in a way that our recent ancestors were not, we found out the world was only one of countless others and that the Lord didn't make it all specially for us or it wasn't created at all. It looks to be infinitely random and god damn that is hard to face black hole.

That's a humanity wide situation, we opened Pandora's box with science, and the majority are pretty damn dislusioned. I think.

We also don't know how to believe except ourselves and even then we're told it's just an "opinion". Indiffrent tolerance
People are just as dogmatic and convinced of their opinions now as the religions of old, but they have embraced the logically contradictory position that they are absolutely right in insisting that nobody is absolutely right

So no, not just Ireland's problem.

Wow, didn't expect Einstein and Sagan to come up on this thread!

Seriously, I'd say people respect other opinions and beliefs more these days, they can agree to differ more than years ago. It has its drawbacks but overall its for the better imo.

[Deleted User]

Adamantium wrote: »

This mightn'd be much consolation, but imagine if the likes of Carl Sagan, Einstein were born in a middle aged village, who hell would they share their ideas with out being cast out as lunatics?

I dunno, Jehan Adam, Parameshvara, Damodara, Georg Von Pueurbach and Ali Qushji were all knocking around in the 15th century and were well regarded and influential at the time.

BMMachine

Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »

I can't stand Mrs Brown, but can we not respect that everyone has their own tastes?

I can't respect someone that eats McDonalds everyday, nor can I respect someone that feeds their minds on a diet of crap everyday. I respect that they can be good honest people and nice people, hell, my parents watch Mrs Browns Boys. They don't gorge on the vast banquet that is rubbish culture though, once a month is okay for fast food right? Its the opinions and thoughts of those who are drowning in the lowbrow garbage culture which I don't respect.

catallus

http://xkcd.com/1386/

Valetta

BMMachine wrote: »

I can't respect someone that eats McDonalds everyday, nor can I respect someone that feeds their minds on a diet of crap everyday. I respect that they can be good honest people and nice people, hell, my parents watch Mrs Browns Boys. They don't gorge on the vast banquet that is rubbish culture though, once a month is okay for fast food right? Its the opinions and thoughts of those who are drowning in the lowbrow garbage culture which I don't respect.

Do you respect people that grossly exaggerate to make their point sound more plausible?

Adamantium

I suppose the problem with Ms.Brown and other 1 note stuff like it feels cheap and that's it, all it tries to be. This is not the Simpsons or Father Ted, The Wire, BSG, BB, that can be enjoyed on many different levels.

This thread in a nutshell:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1LWhNpTJU

WilyCoyote

Mrs Brown going the same way as Fr Ted. Remember that was frowned upon by the cognescenti in Ireland 'til it started winning gongs abroad.

Go Mrs Brown (but not to town - with your knickers hanging down).

BMMachine

Valetta wrote: »

Do you respect people that grossly exaggerate to make their point sound more plausible?

about as much as I respect the people that ignore whats being said in order to get in a nice feel-good snipe

Valetta

BMMachine wrote: »

about as much as I respect the people that ignore whats being said in order to get in a nice feel-good snipe

I haven't ignored anything you have said, if that is what you are implying.

Beano

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Mrs Brown going the same way as Fr Ted. Remember that was frowned upon by the cognescenti in Ireland 'til it started winning gongs abroad.

Go Mrs Brown (but not to town - with your knickers hanging down).

Are you seriously comparing Mrs Brown to Fr Ted? A brilliant satire versus a pile of recycled rubbish.

CruelCoin

Half of us are, OP.

Adamantium

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Mrs Brown going the same way as Fr Ted. Remember that was frowned upon by the cognescenti in Ireland 'til it started winning gongs abroad.

Go Mrs Brown (but not to town - with your knickers hanging down).

This isn't true at all.

Ted is a diamond cut slab of gold, that perfectly gets "the west of Ireland". Live for a winter out in Galway and you'll understand.

Will Ms Brown Boys have us quoting paragraphs of dialogue, encyclopedic guide of mannerisms and tiniest of trivia, holding conversations in prose and be used at every possible oppurtunity and everybody gets the vibe you're on. Friendships forged on laughter and the recalling of incidental remarks, and making women laugh hysterically at pitch perfect Fr Noel Furlong impressions. The hard hitting satire, subversive, but gentle and warm, all done in childlike/unassuming manner that spoke to everybody on different levels. It's an innocent show and that is why it so loved

Ted has the best world building in anything I've ever seen (srs), hell I still imagine 16 years later, that they're living on Craggy Island. A master novelist would only dream of making charcters so vivid.

Ms. Brown Boys will never be any of these things, in fact it wouldn't even try.

The Savage Eye is far more deserving of the gongs if only that it's one of the few Irish things since Fr Ted, that got me giddy in the exact same way. Though nowhere even touching it obviously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrHTEj03eHo

BMMachine

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Mrs Brown going the same way as Fr Ted. Remember that was frowned upon by the cognescenti in Ireland 'til it started winning gongs abroad.

Go Mrs Brown (but not to town - with your knickers hanging down).

no, its been around for 10+ years and has been the same shtick for that time too. Father Ted happened to have 2 very good writers behind it and the brilliantly cast Dermot Morgan and lasted exactly 3 seasons. Whereas Ted is the apex of sitcoms, Mrs Brown is the cash in 'fukit these people will swallow anything' kind of comedy. It has taken a long time for it to get to this point and its going to burn out extremely fast now that its popular. It will be an embarrassing footnote in Irish comedy while Ted will go down as the legend it deserves to be

Awkward Badger

BMMachine wrote: »

about as much as I respect the people that ignore whats being said in order to get in a nice feel-good snipe

BMMachine wrote: »

Its the opinions and thoughts of those who are drowning in the lowbrow garbage culture which I don't respect.

You don't seem to have much respect for anyone by the sounds of it. No respect for anyone who ignores what you're saying in favour of sniping while saying you have no respect for the thoughts and opinions of those who watch Mrs Brown and just calling them idiots.

Agent Smith

Only in Cork

BMMachine

Valetta wrote: »

I haven't ignored anything you have said, if that is what you are implying.

you haven't addressed it either so whats your point?

Awkward Badger wrote:

You don't seem to have much respect for anyone by the sounds of it. No respect for anyone who ignores what you're saying in favour of sniping while saying you have no respect for the thoughts and opinions of those who watch Mrs Brown and just calling them idiots.

oh no, I do alright. and I'm not calling them idiots, unless you think Im calling my own parents idiots. there are layers and depth to everything, try to see past what you want to see

paulbok

you didn't just go and compare The Big Bang Theory & Geordie Shores did you?

Awkward Badger

BMMachine wrote: »

oh no, I do alright. and I'm not calling them idiots, unless you think Im calling my own parents idiots. there are layers and depth to everything, try to see past what you want to see

I'm not sure I'm seeing what I want to see here. I see a thread titled "Are we a nation of idiots" and the basis for asking it is because of the popularity of Mrs Browns Boys and other comedies you feel are garbage. And you've stated you have no respect for the thoughts or opinions of those "drowning" in such low brow garbage.

fonecrusher1

Heer Miss Brown is a fookin screem so it is. Yiz foodlz:mad:, I went ta see wit da lads its mad crac fun. We braut a load a cans in wit us. savage crac.:pac:

Sur its only bleeeeeedin savage yiz fooolzzs.

BMMachine

Awkward Badger wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm seeing what I want to see here. I see a thread titled "Are we a nation of idiots" and the basis for asking it is because of the popularity of Mrs Browns Boys and other comedies you feel are garbage. And you've stated you have no respect for the thoughts or opinions of those "drowning" in such low brow garbage.

its also the popularity of other low brow garbage culture. Now magazine, tabloids and other such wastes of space fall into this too. I thought I had spelled that out in my opening post here "The thing is, that shlock is only the latest in the long line of crap entertainment we have ingested over the years. Bad RTE talent shows, bad lowbrow reality shows (who remembers Fade Street), bad comedy and just a set of low low standards as to what entertainment and culture is." but I'm not sure if you read that or are just ignoring it

I'm asking if we are a nation of idiots based on our ingestion of so much low brow stuff - "I know its hard to avoid, just how this lowbrow pop culture seeps in from every crevice". What I have received in replies has been mostly "but other countries do it" and "its not garbage because I potentially like some of the stuff you are talking about" and "how dare you not respect other peoples opinions based on your own prejudice of peoples tastes". There has been some good and meaningful replies which ask more questions again and perhaps more of that is needed but in hoping for that, maybe my question is being answered in the quality on display here.

Tiddlypeeps

BMMachine wrote: »

no, its been around for 10+ years and has been the same shtick for that time too. Father Ted happened to have 2 very good writers behind it and the brilliantly cast Dermot Morgan and lasted exactly 3 seasons. Whereas Ted is the apex of sitcoms, Mrs Brown is the cash in 'fukit these people will swallow anything' kind of comedy. It has taken a long time for it to get to this point and its going to burn out extremely fast now that its popular. It will be an embarrassing footnote in Irish comedy while Ted will go down as the legend it deserves to be

Ms.Brown irritates the heck out of me so I don't like or watch it, but I wouldn't call anyone that does an idiot. I watch plenty of "low brow" slap stick stuff, Fr.Ted included so I'd be a hypocrite to judge. You're criteria for what is a high enough standard to be worthy of consumption is totally arbitrary, you don't put any objective conditions on it other than "it's not what I like so it's bad".

Your implication that this is a race to the bottom is also demonstrably untrue. Just look back to when cinema and TV first became popular, you have Charlie Chaplin, Laurel and Hardy and later on shows like I Love Lucy, all very slapstick and very low brow and also all from over half a century ago. People have always found that kind of thing funny.

If you wanna argue that those a just because people were only learning how to do cinema and TV then look back to the 70's and 80's where you have tremendously popular shows like Monthy Pythons flying circus and A bit of Fry and Laury. Nobody who watches those shows today would be considered dim witted, but back in the day there were likely people like you judging the people who watch them as idiots.

You seem to have a pretty serious superiority complex, it's got to be fairly lonely and isolating all the way up there on that horse.

[Deleted User]

Mrs. Browne's Boys is basically a 60 year old man from Finglas saying f*ck and b*llox over and over while wearing a granny dress and falling down on occasion.

BMMachine

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You seem to have a pretty serious superiority complex, it's got to be fairly lonely and isolating all the way up there on that horse.

but what is wrong with having high standards?

jimgoose

Omackeral wrote: »

Mrs. Browne's Boys is basically a 60 year old man from Finglas saying f*ck and b*llox over and over while wearing a granny dress and falling down on occasion.

I know. It's wonderful!!