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Child Item

Please stop using weed killer.

vistafinder

I would ask any garden lovers to please reconsider using weed killers before we do irreiversible damage to our children,our land, our water,our pets and our wildlife. If ye havent checked around about the damage it does. Do... before we head down the USA route. I just want to highlight it here because its being advised alot to use it on this forum.

I have a thread on the nature forum aswell if any wildlife lovers want to have a look. There was a link put up by someone this morning it worth a look if ye use the stuff.
http://sustainablepulse.com/2014/04/04/dutch-parliament-bans-glyphosate-herbicides-non-commercial-use/

Its shocking whats going on.

It could be years before anything is done in this country about it.

What do ye think?

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vistafinder

true-or-false wrote: »

Okay, firstly I'd like to say that I don't use any weedkiller. If I have weeds, I pull them by hand. I actually have been known to plant weeds from the garden in pots in the cold frame to see what they turn out to be. A weed is just a plant in the wrong place, and I have a small enough garden to be able to pull anything that's unwanted. I don't think there's any reason to go all spray-happy.

BUT

Where is your proof? In fact, I'm not even sure what your precise point is. You say your health was damaged by cleaning chemicals in the workplace, and then go on to say that there's a big difference between cleaning chemicals and Roundup. So how is it relevant? As for it going somewhere and building up and mixing, I'm no expert myself but from what I've seen with a quick internet search, it isn't building up anywhere. It either binds to soil and becomes inactive, or in an unbound state gets degraded by soil micro-organisms.

Now, I'm sure there are certain effects (as with all things) that are unwanted. It could even be that much of what I've read about it is influenced by biased scientific research funded by Roundup-affiliated parties. So I'm not saying I'm sure it's safe. But you seem to have a lot to say about it without giving any explanation or proof. Birth defects, for example, where's that coming from?

Ok my point is we are all useing chemicals every day without any regard for the future. The people that are making and selling this stuff are telling us its safe and we belive it.

I think its relevant because I was working there for a good few years its a food factory. Stuff we all eat I knew for a long time it made me feel crap when it was in the air. Now its not getting directly into the food but there are traces of it getting in there. My point is it was the long term exposure that done the damage. So this is hapening all the way from the field to the table and we are eating it. Our environment cant handle all this much longer. Same with our health. I did see a couple of times chemicals going on a different product. Food.

What I meant by there is a big difference between cleaning chemicals and this is they are starting to belive this can do horrible things to our bodies. It is worth a look what Monsanto are up to. They have kept the real information from us for a long time.

The birth defects thing is coming from the US and Argentina where overuse is the problem. Its not going to make a difference me putting up links all day. We all need to just think a little bit more thats all.

As for your last sentence there I have burried my head in the sand all my life about things, I avoid any sort of conflict. Its way easier for me to just wait and see what happens and do or say nothing. Infact I rarely have anything to say I just keep my mouth shut. I think this is worth making a bit of noise about.

pawrick

Seems to me for the ordinary gardener the key is being responsible and only using when and where absolutely required. I've lots of critters in my garden so I wouldnt like to use anything which would disturb them but I wouldn't be against use completely if necessary e.g. on my driveway where weeds get in to cracks and are hard to remove but I'd research before doing anything.

wildefalcon

ShaunC wrote: »

I try to keep away from using pesticides and herbicides as much as possible, I tend to use a little green diesel with a sup of quix. Mighty stuff altogether;)

I wonder how long it takes for diesel to degrade, compared to round-up?

ShaunC

I try to keep away from using pesticides and herbicides as much as possible, I tend to use a little green diesel with a sup of quix. Mighty stuff altogether;)

[Deleted User]

Okay, firstly I'd like to say that I don't use any weedkiller. If I have weeds, I pull them by hand. I actually have been known to plant weeds from the garden in pots in the cold frame to see what they turn out to be. A weed is just a plant in the wrong place, and I have a small enough garden to be able to pull anything that's unwanted. I don't think there's any reason to go all spray-happy.

BUT

vistafinder wrote: »

Im not an expert or a doctor but I have experince of my health getting f-cked up from cleaning chemicals in my work place and belive me ye dont want to go down that road and there is a big difference between cleaning chemicals and this stuff. What I am getting at is all this stuff is going somewhere and its building up and mixing.

Who else is going to be afected by birth defects only children not to mind all the other stuff they are starting to think it causes.

Where is your proof? In fact, I'm not even sure what your precise point is. You say your health was damaged by cleaning chemicals in the workplace, and then go on to say that there's a big difference between cleaning chemicals and Roundup. So how is it relevant? As for it going somewhere and building up and mixing, I'm no expert myself but from what I've seen with a quick internet search, it isn't building up anywhere. It either binds to soil and becomes inactive, or in an unbound state gets degraded by soil micro-organisms.

Now, I'm sure there are certain effects (as with all things) that are unwanted. It could even be that much of what I've read about it is influenced by biased scientific research funded by Roundup-affiliated parties. So I'm not saying I'm sure it's safe. But you seem to have a lot to say about it without giving any explanation or proof. Birth defects, for example, where's that coming from?

[Deleted User]

pwurple wrote: »

I tend to hand-pull, use a strimmer... Or fill every available space with a plant I want to actually grow. I propogate a lot from seed or cuttings, and jam as many plants in as I can. Seeing swathes of unplanted soil or bark mulch looks very alien to me.

As my granny used to tell me, if there is space for a weed, there is space for a plant.

I do use roundup on bindweed, but I don't spray randomly, just on the bindweed. My main reason for that is selfish though. I plant veg mixed with my ornamentals... The back of my border is chard and fennel, lettuces as edging. I don't want to EAT roundup, or feed it to my kids.

And I love clover, daisies and buttercup in my grass.

I grew lots of red and purple clover in containers this year, I love them. They look great when massed together, make a great tea as well, very relaxing.

pwurple

I tend to hand-pull, use a strimmer... Or fill every available space with a plant I want to actually grow. I propogate a lot from seed or cuttings, and jam as many plants in as I can. Seeing swathes of unplanted soil or bark mulch looks very alien to me.

As my granny used to tell me, if there is space for a weed, there is space for a plant.

I do use roundup on bindweed, but I don't spray randomly, just on the bindweed. My main reason for that is selfish though. I plant veg mixed with my ornamentals... The back of my border is chard and fennel, lettuces as edging. I don't want to EAT roundup, or feed it to my kids.

And I love clover, daisies and buttercup in my grass.

vistafinder

OldRio wrote: »

Well I have been gardening for over 40 years. I remember the amount of sprays and chemicals around the place twas like a chemists shop.
The advice given about any garden problem was 'spray it' No thought given to the environment.
Things have changed but it seems the mantra of 'ban ban ban' is trendy once more.

Fair play to you for wanting to protect the environment. WE all want that but where does it end?
When all sprays are banned what next?
I hunt on horseback. I shoot. I fish. Take your pick.

Have a look whats going on in Argentina and you will see where it will end. Its extreme I know but thats the way things are heading here with the milk quotas going in 2015 and food harvest 2020 It means more intinsive farming here. That means more spraying more everything its not sustainable.I think the people driveing it care only about one thing €€€€€.They dont care about the farmers or the consumers or the environment. When it goes tits up who will be left hanging? All of us.

Hunting and shooting are not my thing I go fishing the very odd time alright. We all need to just think a bit more if we want to keep doing these things? I was lucky enough to see salmon leaping up stream the last couple of years they may not be there soon because of selfish people.

I grew up on my uncles small farm and the only weed killer that past his gate ever was me. I was given a slasher or a hoe or a pike and told how to do it and I never looked for an easier way to do it. He set a nice big size veg patch for himself for the year and sold some aswell without ever putting a spray on it.Happy days now when I think about it.

wildefalcon

my3cents wrote: »

If the OP would like to tell me how I can continue to fight the Japanese Knotweed in my area without using "Roundup" I'd be delighted.

My neighbour used vast quantities of rock salt last year - it's checked the JKW, not eliminated it.

I prefer roundup injected into the stems. It stops it.

wildefalcon

OldRio wrote: »

Well I have been gardening for over 40 years. I remember the amount of sprays and chemicals around the place twas like a chemists shop.
The advice given about any garden problem was 'spray it' No thought given to the environment.
Things have changed but it seems the mantra of 'ban ban ban' is trendy once more.

Fair play to you for wanting to protect the environment. WE all want that but where does it end?
When all sprays are banned what next?
I hunt on horseback. I shoot. I fish. Take your pick.

First two are nearly banned already.

"first they came for ......"

OldRio

vistafinder wrote: »

Yep and the stuff thats being used now will be banned and is in other countrys.

I have to disagree with you there I have been running,cycling and walking this beautiful country with the last ten years and I can tell you. There is a massive increase in spraying in fields and in gardens only very recently.I was in Cork city a couple of weeks ago and the council had sprayed big stretches of the south link verges,under signposts all the way into the city. Unless I was asleep or something that has only started lately. You can go from the source of the River Lee all the way to the mouth and see fields and gardens and ditches burnt all within touching distance of the river. A few years ago you would only come across the odd garden here and there that was using it.

Well I have been gardening for over 40 years. I remember the amount of sprays and chemicals around the place twas like a chemists shop.
The advice given about any garden problem was 'spray it' No thought given to the environment.
Things have changed but it seems the mantra of 'ban ban ban' is trendy once more.

Fair play to you for wanting to protect the environment. WE all want that but where does it end?
When all sprays are banned what next?
I hunt on horseback. I shoot. I fish. Take your pick.

vistafinder

my3cents wrote: »

If the OP would like to tell me how I can continue to fight the Japanese Knotweed in my area without using "Roundup" I'd be delighted.

I dont have the answer to that.. It looks like a nightmare to have around the place but its not in the gardens,fields and ditches that are being burnt to smithereens that I see.

Its another great example of bringing crap into the country to make places look good.

vistafinder

OldRio wrote: »

Spraying of chemicals without due regard to the environment was the norm a few years ago. Things have changed massively in the last few years. Sprays that gardeners could and did use are now banned. (Quite rightly)

Spraying is not increasing. It is not getting out of hand. The use of environmentally friendly gardening methods is a boom industry.

'Nearly every household is spraying it recently' No evidence to suggest that. In fact the opposite.

Yep and the stuff thats being used now will be banned and is in other countrys.

I have to disagree with you there I have been running,cycling and walking this beautiful country with the last ten years and I can tell you. There is a massive increase in spraying in fields and in gardens only very recently.I was in Cork city a couple of weeks ago and the council had sprayed big stretches of the south link verges,under signposts all the way into the city. Unless I was asleep or something that has only started lately. You can go from the source of the River Lee all the way to the mouth and see fields and gardens and ditches burnt all within touching distance of the river. A few years ago you would only come across the odd garden here and there that was using it.

magicbastarder

gctest50 wrote: »

You'd see it in supermarkets now in packs costing about ~ €10 just to get them hooked

the bog standard lawn weed'n'feed which is sold contains broadleaf herbicide; it's one of the reasons that the manufacturers have been keen to get the notion in the public consciousness that things like clover are a nuisance, when it's preferable to grass in many ways.

my3cents

If the OP would like to tell me how I can continue to fight the Japanese Knotweed in my area without using "Roundup" I'd be delighted.

gctest50

vistafinder wrote: »

...........
Nearly every household is spraying it recently.Whats different now that they have to spray it?

You'd see it in supermarkets now in packs costing about ~ €10 just to get them hooked

Nice bit of marketing carry-on , bottle in a colourful box, not too big n scary

[Deleted User]

I never use weedkillers in the garden, I just yank up the ones I need to get rid of.

Gardens are supposed to have weeds.:) Ying and Yang and all that...

OldRio

vistafinder wrote: »

He He... I have never been called a tree hugger before but I do kind a like them:D It was not my intention to get up anyones back,nose or anything else.

Im not an expert or a doctor but I have experince of my health getting f-cked up from cleaning chemicals in my work place and belive me ye dont want to go down that road and there is a big difference between cleaning chemicals and this stuff. What I am getting at is all this stuff is going somewhere and its building up and mixing.

There are people coming on here asking questions about how to deal with things and they are being advised to use weed killers and some are even saying to mix weed killers. They are being told its safe and there is growing evidence that its not.

Who else is going to be afected by birth defects only children not to mind all the other stuff they are starting to think it causes.

Are farmers being told its safe to use it?
What do you think about spraying round up before the harvest to bring down the moisture content? That cant be normal or safe.

I live in the country side all my life. Why the massive increase of spraying of fields getting resat compared to even a couple of years ago? Its getting out of hand.

Nearly every household is spraying it recently.Whats different now that they have to spray it?

Spraying of chemicals without due regard to the environment was the norm a few years ago. Things have changed massively in the last few years. Sprays that gardeners could and did use are now banned. (Quite rightly)

Spraying is not increasing. It is not getting out of hand. The use of environmentally friendly gardening methods is a boom industry.

'Nearly every household is spraying it recently' No evidence to suggest that. In fact the opposite.

Andy-Pandy

wildefalcon wrote: »

it's about balance. Without pesticides a substantial portion of the world population would starve, but indiscriminate use of pesticides does have harmful implications.

I looked at this area a lot during my Horticulture degree and tbh, its very very difficult to say that large populations would starve.

vistafinder

OldRio wrote: »

Firstly I farm and garden as environmentally friendly as possible. I live in the countryside and understand it as best I can. Unregulated over use of chemicals is obviously dangerous to the environment. Most of us on this board know this.
But one thing that gets my back up is tree huggers telling me to 'think of the children'
Lets not forget we are all still paying for what the 'Greens' did in the last government.(Carbon tax etc)

He He... I have never been called a tree hugger before but I do kind a like them:D It was not my intention to get up anyones back,nose or anything else.

Im not an expert or a doctor but I have experince of my health getting f-cked up from cleaning chemicals in my work place and belive me ye dont want to go down that road and there is a big difference between cleaning chemicals and this stuff. What I am getting at is all this stuff is going somewhere and its building up and mixing.

There are people coming on here asking questions about how to deal with things and they are being advised to use weed killers and some are even saying to mix weed killers. They are being told its safe and there is growing evidence that its not.

Who else is going to be afected by birth defects only children not to mind all the other stuff they are starting to think it causes.

Are farmers being told its safe to use it?
What do you think about spraying round up before the harvest to bring down the moisture content? That cant be normal or safe.

I live in the country side all my life. Why the massive increase of spraying of fields getting resat compared to even a couple of years ago? Its getting out of hand.

Nearly every household is spraying it recently.Whats different now that they have to spray it?

magicbastarder

OldRio wrote: »

But one thing that gets my back up is tree huggers telling me to 'think of the children'
Lets not forget we are all still paying for what the 'Greens' did in the last government.(Carbon tax etc)

so it's just me who thinks carbon tax is eminently sensible?

wildefalcon

it's about balance. Without pesticides a substantial portion of the world population would starve, but indiscriminate use of pesticides does have harmful implications.

I use roundup on bindweed, Japanese knotweed and ground elder, but I prefer to have things so that I can just mow them. I don't use pesticides on the garden, but it's jut a hobby - if the veg die I can buy them from the shops. If the commercial farmers have in infestation then they need to spray or there will be shortages in the shops.

I think the greater risk in terms of chemical use is the antibiotic problem. For what it's worth I think there should be a blanket ban on veterinary (including marine) antibiotics. I know that's cruel, and that many animals will die, including family pets and valuable racehorses, but I'd rather that than me or my family dying from a skin infection, or post surgery.

OldRio

vistafinder wrote: »

What do ye think?

Firstly I farm and garden as environmentally friendly as possible. I live in the countryside and understand it as best I can. Unregulated over use of chemicals is obviously dangerous to the environment. Most of us on this board know this.
But one thing that gets my back up is tree huggers telling me to 'think of the children'
Lets not forget we are all still paying for what the 'Greens' did in the last government.(Carbon tax etc)

Souness

magicbastarder wrote: »

i may need to get some to kill the stump of an ash tree in our neighbour's garden; it's too big and too close to both houses, but i'd be happy to take it down in return for the wood.

To kill the stump just cut deep slashes in a grid into the top of it with a chainsaw and then hack out the middle with an axe. The hole that is left will retain water and rot the stump. you can even plant something in the hole if you want. I did this to stumps of 40yo maple tress and worked great. Had used the chemical stuff on leylandeas years ago and dont think it sped it up anything and its really expensive and as the op says not good for the environment.

vistafinder

vinnie13 wrote: »

Why is there always a group ready to have a go and spread propaganda on isolated incidents.
Instead of trying to get it banned they never look at it logically and start trying to educate people on proper use.

If we banned spraying food prices would soar dramatically due to crop loss.

It's funny how people read an article and believe every word.for every article against something there will be one for it.

Sprays are brilliant at keeping a lovely weed free garden,I spray twice a year it never harms any pets kids or the hundreds of birds are regular visitors.

Im not trying to spread propaganda I just think the people coming after us have a right to a healthy world. We will be long gone before the harm is seen.

I have a garden too and never use the stuff.

Its not isolated either.

redser7

vinnie13 wrote: »

Why is there always a group ready to have a go and spread propaganda on isolated incidents.
Instead of trying to get it banned they never look at it logically and start trying to educate people on proper use.

If we banned spraying food prices would soar dramatically due to crop loss.

It's funny how people read an article and believe every word.for every article against something there will be one for it.

Sprays are brilliant at keeping a lovely weed free garden,I spray twice a year it never harms any pets kids or the hundreds of birds are regular visitors.

I wonder how deeply you've read up on the subject.

magicbastarder

The world’s most widely used insecticides have contaminated the environment across the planet so pervasively that global food production is at risk, according to a comprehensive scientific assessment of the chemicals’ impacts.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/24/insecticides-world-food-supplies-risk

vinnie13

Why is there always a group ready to have a go and spread propaganda on isolated incidents.
Instead of trying to get it banned they never look at it logically and start trying to educate people on proper use.

If we banned spraying food prices would soar dramatically due to crop loss.

It's funny how people read an article and believe every word.for every article against something there will be one for it.

Sprays are brilliant at keeping a lovely weed free garden,I spray twice a year it never harms any pets kids or the hundreds of birds are regular visitors.

Andy-Pandy

LurkerNo1 wrote: »

Why does that article mention on more than one occasion that Round-Up is a pesticide? Poor choice of article OP.

Pesticide is actually a correct term to use. A herbicide is a pesticide. Therefore roundup is a pesticide.

vistafinder

LurkerNo1 wrote: »

Why does that article mention on more than one occasion that Round-Up is a pesticide? Poor choice of article OP.

Good point. The Dutch will probably not ban it at all so.