Imhof Tank wrote: » Would this kind of cr*p not sicken anyone?http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89268917&postcount=1682 This post was actually thanked by Urban Sea
kksaints wrote: » Actually whats the policy for reporting suspected banned users reregs? I reported a user a few months ago whos post matched a notorious trouble maker on this forum. I was then told by a mod in a PM that they had no proof so couldn't actually deal with it.
Gavin shels wrote: » This needs to be addressed badly, it was clear your man had about 4 re-regs going by his writing alone here!
Beasty wrote: » Report suspected re-regs either by reporting posts or PM'ing the mods. Certainly never state suspicions in-thread Mods (and CMods) tools in this area are very basic, so they will alert the Admins who have much more powerful resources to do checks If Admins are satisfied it's a re-reg of a currently banned user then they will usually issue a site ban, and if that's not permanent local mods may impose additional sanctions at forum level
kksaints wrote: » I reported the users post so it must have been a mod mistake. Cheers for clearing it up
Beasty wrote: » OK, let me have my say on this as so many posters seem to place a lot of blame at my feet. I have deliberately stayed out of this thread as I suspected any contribution I made would cause a reaction. This may still happen, but I would certainly prefer it if posters can remain calm and try and see this as my attempt to explain a bit of background to how we got to where we are. I first became aware of certain problems with this forum perhaps just under a year ago. There was a sexist undertone with some posters and one certainly received a permanent siteban for posting porn that was particularly degrading to women I had discussions with the mod team. One of our roles as CMods is to help out when required, and I then became aware of issues with certain posters re-regging to circumvent forum bans. Where the Admins could prove a link sitebans were applied. Where they could not all we could do was keep an eye on potential trouble posters. Unfortunately a number of posters took it upon themselves to try and "out" potential re-regs in the open forum. There was a tendency for posters to comment on modding matters and just over 6 months ago I posted a sticky asking posters to report their suspicions and leave the modding to the mods. Given the scale of issues I had witnessed and following discussion with the mod team I stated that I would be sticking around the forum, and since then I have basically done so. Unfortunately despite the best efforts of the mod team the forum continued to suffer from a tendency of posters to take things into their own hands and I stepped in again Now turning to the World Cup. I initially noticed a thread dedicated to the World Cup. I closed that thread stating that this was essentially off-topic for the Horse Racing forum. Imagine the outrage if someone started a Horse Racing thread in the Soccer forum. Again though someone thought rather than PM'ing me to discuss the matter they would make comments about the modding in the off topic thread, and I dealt with that post The soccer talk then migrated to the Off topic thread. I had no fundamental issue with a few comments being made but did have a concern that soccer talk would take over the thread. So basically I asked posters not to allow this to happen. To be absolutely clear though I never banned any World Cup or other soccer talk from that thread (although I acknowledge I did threaten it if the excessive World Cup talk continued). UrbanSea made a post which included a comment about Brazil. In other circumstances it was a completely innocuous post, but I felt it was contradicting the message I was trying to convey so I deleted it. Before I even had chance to discuss this with UrbanSea I received a PM from another user which mentioned he had closed his account, which was a complete surprise to me. That though meant I was going to be even more active in the forum to support the one other mod still in place The off-topic thread did become dominated by World Cup talk for a while. However I did not take action against anyone as it was typically posters commenting on who they were betting on. However I did comment when the thread became almost a running commentry of the first match and given my prior warnings issued 2 yellow cards (since revoked). Unfortunately though there were further in-thread comments about the modding which resulted in bans being issued. Now to be absolutely clear despite my (and convert's) repeated warnings over the past 6 months, only one poster had at that stage approached me to discuss the whole matter. By the time I got up the following morning I had another PM, and a Feedback thread in the Feedback forum had commenced. Tom PM'd me and we agreed between us and convert to allow a dedicated thread as well as this feedback thread for the forum Now in an ideal world things would not have blown up like this. Unfortunately the world is not ideal, and sometimes we don't have the time to respond to comments, or something else crops up. I will hold up my hands and acknowledge things could have been done differently and for the better certainly in the short term. Would this then have blown up? Possibly not now, but I suspect based on what I have seen in the forum over the past year there was every chance there would be another trigger point at some time, as there certainly were, and in some cases still are, a small number of posters that simply want the forum run "their way" which is not in line with what happens elsewhere on the site
Sparks wrote: » It's occurred to me that it's a tremendously bad sign that it was necessary. If it was just me, you might have had a point; but so far, it's the regular mod, several category mods and an admin, all of whom have been looking after lots of forums for lots of years without having to do this kind of thing very often, if at all. At some stage, you're going to have to ask if maybe the problem might be those five or six posters. This'd go a lot faster if for the sake of argument, in private, you just -- purely for fits and giggles -- took a look at the forum from that viewpoint to see what we're saying. You don't have to agree, you don't have to post about it. Just look.
qwabercd wrote: » I must say, I am looking at this thread and forum from a similiar standpoint to yourself but from an undoubtedly better position. I've followed this forum for about 4 months and have about 4 posts so would like to see myself as a neutral. Firstly it's a bad sign when a mod like urbansea leaves. Paint it how ye like, but he was decent poster and mod. But more importantly he was decent guy. It wasnt because of the forum or the posters that he left. It was because of these cmods (whatever they are) on a power trip. Everything was ok, remember that. There was no chaos that ye are retrospectively trying to generate. Simply a few posts about the world cup in an off topic thread. Big wow. For me, the nail in the coffin was a lad like aidankkk leaving. Truly a lad who loved posting about horses, value and discussing bets. Never got in an argument, a nice guy. He left because of your tactics (and ye deleted said post). There is no clique that ye speak of. I am a neutral and this is a bullsh!t argument that ye have plucked from the air as a defense mechanism. I frequent the soccer forum ad often as here and there is far more cliques and bull posting over there. But ye dont care. Because ye dont post here and that's the crux of the problem. Masquerade a feedback thread and ban/delete as ye wish. Remember this. Nothing was ever actually wrong. Please quote the posts from this forum that were any different to the soccer forum. There are none. And remember, i am genuinenly a random neutral here so please respect my opinion. Somehow i doubt ye will. Ye (3 or 4 powertripping mods) are the problem. Not the forum. Alas ye have too many posts and too much of a reputation on a bloody internet forum to ever admit so.
sdoc13 wrote: » There were definitely issues with the forum. Tipsters thread, re regs and sometimes lads got carried away in the off topic thread. Even though I thought that had improved since the new thread was set up. The biggest issue seems to be the discussing of mod decisions in thread. This could and should have been sorted earlier by the opening of a feedback thread. Could have prevented all this if this had been set up when originally suggested.
qwabercd wrote: » To be fair the re-regs were probably just as I was starting to look here, and did seem like a real problem. As for the tips thread, I can't see the issue, I genuinely can't. Don't forget the thread was on fire. The only problem I could find is if people were abusing lads for giving bad tips, that never really happened. Discussing winners/losers happens, but that's what a thread is for. Yes there are lads (quite clearly one who struck lucky with a few early winners) who are posting what are clearly not tips/inside info. But there's no way of proving it so you can't just ban lads, it's effectively impossible to moderate/prevent (I've seen mentions of minimum 500 posts but do not agree with that myself).
helimachoptor wrote: » So Defintely on the lighter end of the scale not so much on the lighter end of the scale for beast and the comment re convert and the one below is clearly intimating that she cant mod because she's a woman The posts about the place being ****e have been deleted and posters banned so im not dragging them up.
Imhof Tank wrote: » Here’s two feedback suggestions in before the lock (which I’d say will be soon) – Open a horse racing sub forum on the gambling forum for all punting talk. As someone else put it recently, regular posters such as Colonel Sanders were really just punters with an interest in racing as a gambling medium. That is not a criticism, Colonel was clearly a disciplined and skilled punter and form student, not a betting shop bore or compulsive case. Then amalgamate what’s left in relation to breeding, the price of national hunt stores, syndication etc into the equestrian forum. The vast majority of the posters on this forum have no meaningful input on non-punting subjects anyway. I haven’t been posting at all much on the site recently due mainly to being sickened by the atmosphere in the racing forum – specifically the vitriol directed at jockeys, owners, trainers, bookies, racecourse managers and TV pundits. People claiming Irish jump racing is a total joke because of small fields at Punchestown or conspiracy theories about Ballydoyle’s early season running plans. The abuse Shark Hanlon took from the keyboard warrior trainers in the Hidden Cyclone thread was really low. All this is coming nearly exclusively from posters who openly admit they have no first-hand knowledge of the subject, never ridden a horse, never even thrown on a head collar. Yet they can tell Mick Fitz he is a clueless yokel. The other thing is the misogyny. The points being made recently about how this is a male dominated forum and how covert is unsuitable to mod the lads smacks of the betting shop scenario with the exclusively male clientele. I would guess punters are at least 90% male while people working in the racing industry would be about 60/40 male female. If this forum is 99% male that just proves this is basically a gambling forum. In relation to the “humour”, if Rebecca Curtis came on to post on this forum to talk about her yard, would she be told about her “brown doors” or whatever? No, because its cringe worthy.
Beasty wrote: » Now turning to the World Cup. I initially noticed a thread dedicated to the World Cup. I closed that thread stating that this was essentially off-topic for the Horse Racing forum. Imagine the outrage if someone started a Horse Racing thread in the Soccer forum. Again though someone thought rather than PM'ing me to discuss the matter they would make comments about the modding in the off topic thread, and I dealt with that post The soccer talk then migrated to the Off topic thread. I had no fundamental issue with a few comments being made but did have a concern that soccer talk would take over the thread. So basically I asked posters not to allow this to happen. To be absolutely clear though I never banned any World Cup or other soccer talk from that thread (although I acknowledge I did threaten it if the excessive World Cup talk continued). UrbanSea made a post which included a comment about Brazil. In other circumstances it was a completely innocuous post, but I felt it was contradicting the message I was trying to convey so I deleted it. Before I even had chance to discuss this with UrbanSea I received a PM from another user which mentioned he had closed his account, which was a complete surprise to me. That though meant I was going to be even more active in the forum to support the one other mod still in place The off-topic thread did become dominated by World Cup talk for a while. However I did not take action against anyone as it was typically posters commenting on who they were betting on. However I did comment when the thread became almost a running commentry of the first match and given my prior warnings issued 2 yellow cards (since revoked). Unfortunately though there were further in-thread comments about the modding which resulted in bans being issued.
bohsman wrote: » There are plenty of quiet days in horseracing where off topic will dominate.
Imhof Tank wrote: » Thin end of the wedge. It creates an aggressive atmosphere with posters feeling able to go absolutely nuclear with the abuse the next time a ride or a piece of analysis doesn't measure up to their own high standards
Tom Dunne wrote: » 3: The tips thread - can't really comment on this as I am still trying to get my head around it. Just throwing it out there - a sub-forum off this forum is an option, if that helps.
Tom Dunne wrote: » Right, so here's my summary of what I see as the issues. Please feel free to correct as deemed appropriate: 1: The World Cup/Off Topic thread 2: Moderation - The lack of a moderator who posts frequently and who is knowledgeable about racing/betting 3: The tips thread - need to agree on what is/is not acceptable and how it functions 4: the general tone of abuse directed at those in Horse Racing Here's my thoughts on the above: 1: For the most part, rectified with the sticky, however we need to clarify what the Off Topic thread is for and what is/is not acceptable 2: Working on it. I have gone through the top 10 posters on this forum and looked at your posts, history, etc. We are actively discussing this in the mods forum, watch this space 3: The tips thread - can't really comment on this as I am still trying to get my head around it. Just throwing it out there - a sub-forum off this forum is an option, if that helps. 4: the general tone of abuse directed at those in Horse Racing - an easy fix. Report the post, walk away from it. With new mods on board, and your help, we should be able to stamp this out.
Imhof Tank wrote: » The elephant in the room is that a CMod came in over the top of Urban Sea and he walked as a direct result of that. Whether you might feel he misinterpreted the situation or threw a hissy fit or whatever, you have to address what happened there if you want a volunteer for mod from the regular posters here.
Imhof Tank wrote: » Also, surprised by no mention of the war on misogyny on your summary list?
Tom Dunne wrote: » Standard etiquette - the guy isn't one the site anymore and therefore cannot give his side of the story. As such, it is unfair to him to have the issue discussed without his input. This is why, as a general (unwritten) rule, we do not discuss users who are no longer on the site. No conspiracy, no hidden agenda, just a courtesy afforded to former members. .
Francie Barrett wrote: » Life is too short for me to read everything in this thread, but can we not just ask Urban Sea to come back? He was a regular, he was always involved, he was knowledgeable about racing and he was fair. Thought this place was going alright until people started getting their knickers in a twist over very little.
