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Offer of a training contract.

LadyLucinda

I have an offer of a training contract which will be minimum wage and i'll be paying my fees also. Another major point to note is that I extremely doubt that this firm will be keeping me on when I'm qualified.

I am just so confused as to what the do. I just picture myself being a qualified a solicitor but jobless and close to 20k in debt.

What shall I do?

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crosshair12

I'll take it if you don't want it...

LegallyAbroad

Listen to what you're saying. You'll be a NQ with small firm experience (in terms of future job prospects, particularly abroad) with tons of debt.

Why would you want to work for such people anyway? I wouldn't go next nor near it. Amazes me that people get so fixated with the title of Solicitor or Barrister and will do even if it is financially to their detriment.

Bepolite

Take it - try and find something else, simples.

To address the above poster, we've had it good here for many years. While I don't want to adopt the US system its about time we realised that unless we're very lucky with Mummy and Daddy's financial situation getting an education* will incur some debt.

Granted I agree with the fixation part though. Some people (not aiming this at you OP) think that Law is the path the riches, fame and glory, rather than doing it for a passion of the subject.

*Lots of debt if you get a proper education - the one that involves lots of drinking!

LegallyAbroad

Bepolite wrote: »

Take it - try and find something else, simples.

To address the above poster, we've had it good here for many years. While I don't want to adopt the US system its about time we realised that unless we're very lucky with Mummy and Daddy's financial situation getting an education* will incur some debt.

Granted I agree with the fixation part though. Some people (not aiming this at you OP) think that Law is the path the riches, fame and glory, rather than doing it for a passion of the subject.

*Lots of debt if you get a proper education - the one that involves lots of drinking!

Debt for a University education is one thing. Debt to enter a profession, substantial debt, whilst working is another. Its up to the OP but I wouldn't work a firm who valued me so little as to pay the absolute minimum, in terms of wages and fees. The OP has already acknowledged that the firm won't keep her/him on.

LadyLucinda

Would it not seriously stand to me however even if I wasn't to work as a solicitor for a long time.. For getting into working as part of a legal team for a company for example?

randomchild

As an apprentice who works for a small firm on min wage and paying my own fees I can only go on my own experience but I would recommend you take this opportunity if you wish to become a Solicitor.

I spent three years looking for traineeship, cannot speak about what the job situation is like now but I imagine they are still tough to come by. If you want to experience with other firms you can apply for secondments if your firm allows it (this is something you should enquire about, but maybe not before signing with them, it could make you appear apathetic to the position).

With regard to the experience you get I can only speak from my position, but working in a small firm has been incredible. Compared to other trainees I have talked to (I’m post ppc 1) my level of responsibility/range of case work is incomparable. I have my own clients, I run my own files and I advocate in court for them. If you compare this to one of the big 5 were you would not even be left alone in the same room as a client for longer than 5 minutes it’s a big difference. I know at the end of my traineeship that the education and exposure I will have received will put me streets ahead of other candidates should I not be kept on my firm.

In summary, yes the pay can be low and the debt high (consider applying for a grant/bursary) but if you land in a firm half as good as mine is to me it will be worth it.

LegallyAbroad

LadyLucinda wrote: »

Would it not seriously stand to me however even if I wasn't to work as a solicitor for a long time.. For getting into working as part of a legal team for a company for example?

I'd imagine it would beneficial, definitely. More of whether you think 2 years working somewhere else plus 50/60k (lost wages & fees) would leave you in a better position.

McCrack

To be honest I don't know why you are here asking people to tell you what to do. You want to become a solicitor and you have been given an opportunity to do that. Nobody gets it easy in the legal profession either getting in or starting off and that can includes crap pay at the start of your training and having to cover your own fees. The ones that train in the large firms have other trade-offs for working in them besides money.

I think what I'm trying to say is just get on with it.

Santa Cruz

LadyLucinda wrote: »

Would it not seriously stand to me however even if I wasn't to work as a solicitor for a long time.. For getting into working as part of a legal team for a company for example?

I would take it for the following reasons.

1. You want to be a solicitor. This is the opportunity of a training contract that are increasingly harder to get.
2. Every month you spend there is a months learning experience that you won't get if you are not training.
3. Financially it may (will) be difficult but every profession starts off on low income. I honestly believe that if you get in there, show your worth and asset to the legal team that it will all work out. Once established as a team member even though a trainee I'm sure that the management will be approachable if things are tough financially.
4. On qualification you may not be retained. However over your training period you will be in a position to interact with other solicitor firms, develop contact with your class colleagues etc. which may provide other openings.
5. No one said it was going to be easy and those here advocating non acceptance are not in touch with the real world out there.
Student debt is a fact of life in other countries and once in employment can be managed
This is a great opportunity. Go for it

Bepolite

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Debt for a University education is one thing. Debt to enter a profession, substantial debt, whilst working is another. Its up to the OP but I wouldn't work a firm who valued me so little as to pay the absolute minimum, in terms of wages and fees. The OP has already acknowledged that the firm won't keep her/him on.

At the end of the day it sounds like a small firm and to be fair they are at least doing the minimum unlike some other firms. The OP either doesn't have the grades, desire to move, or interview technique to get into a better position. Please note OP this is not a criticism of you - the position you find yourself in is one many share with you.

The options become very limited if we expect every firm to pay decent wages and fees for everyone trying to get through Blackhall. If there is a better offer take it the firm in question will have no problem finding ten other people to fill the place.

Santa Cruz

LegallyAbroad wrote: »

Debt for a University education is one thing. Debt to enter a profession, substantial debt, whilst working is another. Its up to the OP but I wouldn't work a firm who valued me so little as to pay the absolute minimum, in terms of wages and fees. The OP has already acknowledged that the firm won't keep her/him on.

Legal point. "The OP has already acknowledged that the firm won't keep her/him on"

Read it again. The OP doubts that they will be kept on after training. That is a big difference which a law student should note. Over the period of a training contact events may occur which would require the employment of a newly qualified solicitor. Death, retirement, transfer, influx of increased business due to local situation e.g planning, tribunal work etc.

chops018

I agree with all the comments above.

It will be a tough 2-3 years, but, if you are young and have no other big financial burdens i.e. children, mortgage, etc. then I'd defo take it. You will have a wage every week, it might not be much, but it should cover paying back a loan and keep you with enough money for travel and food expenses, and maybe one or two nights out a month.

If you live at home then min wage should be more than enough to cover you unless you have to hand up a lot.

As has been said if you want to become a qualified Solicitor then you must take this opportunity. It would seem that small to medium firms can only really offer paying a minimum wage and can't offer to pay the fee's for Blackhall. But it's hard to break into the top 5 or 10 firms who will give you about 25k or 26k salary, pay your fees and give you attractive holidays post PPC courses.

At the end of the day 20k isn't a huge amount. You could even pay 50 quid a week back of that if you ended up on the dole. In the vast scheme of things you will end up with a professional qualification for life. Get yourself qualified, and you will get decent employment sooner or later. This isn't like college, you are going to be trained fully. So, once finished you will actually have employable skills. Unlike the huge amounts coming from college with no experience and thinking they are entitled to get this or that job.

Pat Mustard

LadyLucinda wrote: »

What shall I do?

It isn't just a financial decision.

If you want to become a solicitor, take the position, unless something better comes up.

If it does not matter to you whether you become a solicitor or whether you earn a living doing something else, then consider going into a job with lower barriers to entry, better pay and conditions, and better return on investment overall.

But remember: you should decide for yourself what it is that you really want to do, and whatever that it may be - do it.

Dandelion6

The unfortunate truth is that there are many firms that don't pay trainees at all. If you're holding out for one that will pay a proper wage and fees, you're narrowing your pool of options to a considerable degree. You're also competing with loads of trainees who are willing to work for nothing. Even if you aren't kept on after qualification, you'll at least have that qualification, you'll have a lot more experience than many other newly-qualified solicitors and you'll be in a better position to compete with fewer people for the the jobs available.

LegallyAbroad

Bepolite wrote: »

At the end of the day it sounds like a small firm and to be fair they are at least doing the minimum unlike some other firms. The OP either doesn't have the grades, desire to move, or interview technique to get into a better position. Please note OP this is not a criticism of you - the position you find yourself in is one many share with you.

The options become very limited if we expect every firm to pay decent wages and fees for everyone trying to get through Blackhall. If there is a better offer take it the firm in question will have no problem finding ten other people to fill the place.

If she has no better options well then she should obviously take it.

It all comes down to whether one is hell bent on practice come what may or whether one would like to practice if it is economically beneficial, I suppose.

doing

LadyLucinda wrote: »

I have an offer of a training contract which will be minimum wage and i'll be paying my fees also. Another major point to note is that I extremely doubt that this firm will be keeping me on when I'm qualified.

I am just so confused as to what the do. I just picture myself being a qualified a solicitor but jobless and close to 20k in debt.

What shall I do?

Could you not get a job in McDonalds or any other menial minimum wage work for a year and save up your course fees and pay them yourself in a years time? PP1 is 8500 and PP2 is 5 grand. If you move back in with your parents for a year and buy your food in LIDL you could save up the 13 grand.

That's if the firm would be willing to wait a year though. Not being sarcastic or anything but that seems like the solution to me. I don't agree with everyone else saying 20k isn't much debt though, being 20k in debt (including the interest I assume) when you earn less than 20k a year is not an option.

Sala

Take it, go to Blackhall, and get onto the transfer register. Try to get a better one. You are competing with a smaller pool of people when you're post ppc1. You could be hanging around forever looking for one with a proper salary and looking back in three years saying you could be qualified now. A small firm may well be growing and there may be a job afterwards.

Things are improving, there are 4 ads on the law society website (apply for them) - I recall a year or 2 ago I checked everyday and there was a period of months when NONE came up.

I just finished Blackhall and know a couple of people who applied for, and got, transfers into biggish firms while they were in there

solarplexus

I would definitely take it. I waited 3 years for a traineeship and finally took an unpaid one which involved me working for a year full time for free prior to PPC 1. The experience was invaluable and I picked up a paid secondment no problem due to my experience.

Its all about making yourself employable and that's through experience. Paid or not. A number of years ago unpaid traineeship's weren't uncommon. I was lucky as I my own business that I worked evenings and weekends for money.

You should jump at the offer! I know a girl who turned down an unpaid traineeship 2 years ago and she has yet to be offered anything else! Just think, she could have been nearly qualified if she had to of taken them up on the offer.

Right Turn Clyde

I'd give my right arm for a training contact. Go for it! Hundreds of thousands of people in this county get paid feck all, and have debts hanging over them. But for them there isn't a professional qualification at the end of it. Take this opportunity, feel the pain, qualify, then push forward with your career.

Nidgeweasel

Take it, get qualified, improve yourself and if you don't like it as a NQ (or if you're not offered a full time role) up sticks.