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Forum Feedback thread

Tom Dunne

Ok, as promised, I am opening a discussion on the forum itself.

As you are all probably now aware, we have added an extra moderator, helimachoptor as a first step in the process. This is not up for discussion in this thread, however I do appreciate there are calls for a moderator to be picked from the regulars and it is something we will actively look at in due course.

So, to the forum itself. I appreciate there will be some strong opinions and they are to be welcomed, however I do ask that they are kept civil and factual. Hearsay and conjecture will not be acknowledged.

Also please bear in mind that this is in relation to the forum - I don't have the foggiest idea about horses (despite being from Kildare, I know, I know) so semantics about horses and betting are utterly lost on me.

Finally, while I will be the main point of contact, other mods/cmods/admins may jump in from time to time to offer their opinions.

Over to you.

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kksaints

Bateman wrote: »

The very idea of having 'rules' in an off-topic thread is illogical IMO

There has to be rules of a certain degree but limits on the amount of discussion of a topic is a different thing.

As regards forum feedback in my opinion the problems started when the likes of Go Native started posting last October. He destroyed a lot of debate and started to goad and annoy a lot of users. Unfortunately he did it in a way which was trickey for the mods to deal with and this lead to a fair bit of abusive debate until he was finally banned after a good while. But by then the abusive type of debate had become common in the forum.

tomaussie

For what time period will this thread be open ?

kiers47

I'd have to agree with most of the sentiments via the tips and logs threads. They offer little in the way of actual insight and are primarily gambling focused. I think they would be better placed in the gambling fora.

Tom Dunne

ft9 wrote: »

Also an after timing thread should exist with screenshots mandatory. If people after time without the screenshot = ban.

I honestly have no idea what that means.

the groutch wrote: »

In relation to the off-topic thread, the main problem is that there was never any ground rules or limitations laid out in advance.
So when a CMod who wouldn't generally frequent the forum came in an started applying rules to the thread which conflicted with the opinions of UrbanSea who while being a mod was considered "one of the guys", it's understandable that people got upset.
In future if a mod/cmod wants to put restrictions on a thread beyond the normal boards.ie rules, they need to be doing so at an early stage, and not just ad lib.

A very good point.

only1stevo wrote: »

Tips Thread is a complete joke, hate to think there are people following tips blind from lads who claim to have connections from every corner of the globe.(LITERALLY!!)
It really gets to me, and it's irrelevant whether or not they are winning, it's as good as trolling in my opinion.

Obviously there are certain people that are honest and very generously pass on genuine info but if there was a way to weed out the spoofers it would improve the quality of posts and posters.
It's incredible how the forum as a whole goes through periods of really informative and interesting discussion, and then to the other extreme when you notice the better posters decrease in activity as waves of absolute sh*tehawks take over and start threads on a 64 rated 9 year old gelding running in the back arse of back arses.

As others have asked, how do we prove who is telling the truth and who is not? It's extremely difficult. Caveat Emptor.

Nulty wrote: »

I'd like to hear why urban sea left. I don't know why it happened. Could someone please explain?

Why don't you contact him and ask him? None of us really know and to be quite honest, speculation will not help.

tomaussie wrote: »

For what time period will this thread be open ?

Probably a week or two, we will see how it goes.

Backstreet Moyes

helimachoptor wrote: »

Its the internet, just because someone posts rubbish you dont have to believe it.

Frankly its impossible to say X user is 100% telling the truth about the stable hand in Y stud or whatever, people arent vetted.

What i don't understand is how ruling conversation out of the tips thread helps at all. If somebody posts up a horse without saying anything about a source surely being quizzed for information helps rule out people who are making up tips.

I agree with infractions for people abusing somebody about a tip not winning. But i seen people get yellow carded for congratulating people on winning tips which is just disgraceful and i can understand why it would turn people away from the thread.

Slattsy

Ai, there were a lot of bans handed out in the Tip Thread that were down right outrageous.

Tom, it could be worth sieving through it and see if they can be rescinded at all? TBH you'll be shocked at some of the infractions.

Tom Dunne

Slattsy wrote: »

Ai, there were a lot of bans handed out in the Tip Thread that were down right outrageous.

Tom, it could be worth sieving through it and see if they can be rescinded at all? TBH you'll be shocked at some of the infractions.

To be honest, I don't have the time to go through them.

The advice I would give is that if posters feel aggrieved, especially in light of the current situation, that they engage the Dispute Resolution Process. I will ensure that anyone who deals with the process is aware of the context within which the cards were given out.

andyman

I really don't understand how some people fail to grasp the tips thread.

Tips get lost in the clutter of chat and petty sniping. Eradicate all that and all you have is the tips. I saw Motivator saying he might get yellow carded for talking about where he got his tip from. That is allowed. What's not allowed is follow up chat and stuff like that. Part of tipping is disclosing as much as you can about the info received and it's one of the rules of the actual thread.

If people are getting warned and banned it's their own fault. Convert has warned us countless times on-thread and really, it's not that difficult to follow.

I do think the same punishment should be dished out to those who just post the horses name, time and meeting. They're breaking the rules too.

[Deleted User]

andyman wrote: »

I really don't understand how some people fail to grasp the tips thread.

Tips get lost in the clutter of chat and petty sniping. Eradicate all that and all you have is the tips. I saw Motivator saying he might get yellow carded for talking about where he got his tip from. That is allowed. What's not allowed is follow up chat and stuff like that. Part of tipping is disclosing as much as you can about the info received and it's one of the rules of the actual thread.

If people are getting warned and banned it's their own fault. Convert has warned us countless times on-thread and really, it's not that difficult to follow.

I do think the same punishment should be dished out to those who just post the horses name, time and meeting. They're breaking the rules too.

The fact that convert posted countless warnings is quite irrelevant, some of the yellow and red cards given out were just ridiculous. In a tips thread there is always going to be follow on chat,like well done or unlucky etc. Its been said before,convert contributes little or nothing to the horse racing forum except waiting to type warnings and bans etc.she is the sole reason why I rarely post on the forum anymore,and I don't think I am the only one.I know the Admins won't like this post but I am telling it like it is

tomaussie

droidman123 wrote: »

The fact that convert posted countless warnings is quite irrelevant, some of the yellow and red cards given out were just ridiculous. In a tips thread there is always going to be follow on chat,like well done or unlucky etc. Its been said before,convert contributes little or nothing to the horse racing forum except waiting to type warnings and bans etc.she is the sole reason why I rarely post on the forum anymore,and I don't think I am the only one.I know the Admins won't like this post but I am telling it like it is

I agree. I have tried to stop posting too because of getting my hands slapped all the time. No room for personalities or a bit of banter. I'll stop posting entirely the next time I get infracted, warned or carded if I feel it's unfair.

andyman

droidman123 wrote: »

The fact that convert posted countless warnings is quite irrelevant, some of the yellow and red cards given out were just ridiculous. In a tips thread there is always going to be follow on chat,like well done or unlucky etc. Its been said before,convert contributes little or nothing to the horse racing forum except waiting to type warnings and bans etc.she is the sole reason why I rarely post on the forum anymore,and I don't think I am the only one.I know the Admins won't like this post but I am telling it like it is

How is it irrelevant? She gave us plenty of chances to adapt to the new rules of the thread and people kept ignoring them. It's as simple as that. If Convert had slapped warnings and infractions on people straight away, then you'd have a point. Fact of the matter is we were given numerous chances and they were ignored.

People complain that the tips thread is going the way of the previous thread, convert decides to stamp it out by having tips only, something I agree with and suggested. There's no happy medium with that thread. Tip the horse, explain where you got your source, post, win, thank the post.

It reeks of throwing the toys out of the pram. You can't have it both ways

Bangor Billy

We had a perfect example of the problem with the tips thread on Saturday. Krustydoyle posted a tip that he said had come from the yard. The horse ran poorly. He then posted an explanation that he said had come from the jockey explaining why the horse had disappointed. For that he got a yellow card as the mod said the explanation should have been posted in the daily thread. That is just bizarre.

We all like to feel appreciated, that is human nature. I have posted a couple of tips which have won and it was nice to receive positive comments thanking me for the tips. It would be a shame if that wasn't allowed in future.

[Deleted User]

andyman wrote: »

How is it irrelevant? She gave us plenty of chances to adapt to the new rules of the thread and people kept ignoring them. It's as simple as that. If Convert had slapped warnings and infractions on people straight away, then you'd have a point. Fact of the matter is we were given numerous chances and they were ignored.

People complain that the tips thread is going the way of the previous thread, convert decides to stamp it out by having tips only, something I agree with and suggested. There's no happy medium with that thread. Tip the horse, explain where you got your source, post, win, thank the post.

It reeks of throwing the toys out of the pram. You can't have it both ways

I think you have missed my point Andy. I think there should be some follow on chat allowed,you don't.that's fair enough,our opinions differ there. My point was about convert in general.I don't mean to sound as if I am on a witch hunt here,but these issues have to be ironed out,they are the root cause of the problems in the horse racing forum in general.beasty certainly didn't help matters by steaming in and trying to take over.these are the things that irk people.

Bangor Billy

How about setting up a poll on the site. Do we want the tips thread to be strictly tips only or do we want limited, but not negative or aggressive, comments allowed? Poll open for say 48 hours and result to be binding?

Bateman

I don't really understand how anyone could be interested enough in after timing to be bothered about whether or not people are supplying screen shots, I certainly don't think it should be mandatory anyway, someone might want to add a winning bet to the aftertiming thread but it doesn't suit them to post a screen shot right there and then

the groutch

with the tips thread, if mods are concerned about the credibility of them as seems to be the case with the request of more detailed info about the source of tips, maybe the thread should have some sort of criteria such as a minimum post count, or having to request access like with the soccer forum.
that way we can be pretty sure of the reliability of sources without posters having to over-divulge, and would also eliminate alot of the risk of trolling/sniping.

Slattsy

Im of the opinion that unless someone slates a poster for a tip that is beaten; ie you muppet / lost me nuts on that you twat / it was shíte / dont post here again etc etc..... then a bit of post race chat is no harm at all.

When i say post race chat i mean stuff like; well done thanks / get in you beauty / unlucky / maybe next time / had no luck in running etc etc

Its a thread i dont really get too involved in myself, but i cant see a thread working when every post can only contain:

8.00 Ascot
Red Puppet 4/1
From my uncles neighbours cat in the yard

tomaussie

My suggestion for the tips thread - state, as safely as you can, where you received the tip. Allow people to comment, within the thread, on the running of the race that involved the tip. I think most people in racing know that good sources are very very rare. People who post 'tips' daily will be treated with caution by most sensible people. In a short period of time it will be fairly obvious who are reliable sources.

Now my mates call me sledgehammer as I call things as I see them so bearing that in mind forgive me if the following is clumsy.

Convert, I think you are a tad over zealous when it comes to punishing what you perceive to be sexist. I have not seen anything in the off topic thread that I would call sexist. Most guys like girls and like to talk about how attractive they are or indeed aren't. That is banter and not sexism. Let me be clear here, talking about how much you would like to sleep with a bird is not sexist. I think you should give this some thought going forward. The forum is male dominated and that must be considered rather than misinterpreted.

There is nothing more annoying then having a good laugh only for somebody to incorrectly label you as sexist or as making sexist comments. I don't think there is malice in any of the posters I've seen having a chat about women. I think if anything inappropriate was actually said then the regular contributors would be all over it. Me included.

I also think most posts (i accept some do have to be removed) should not be deleted when they are infracted, carded or warned. This would allow us to see what is deemed not acceptable. It would be an easy way to learn from other peoples mistakes and allow others not to make the same mistake.

I also think nothing should be off limits in the 'off topic' thread. Again, if it gets repetitive then the regulars will get bored and not comment thus ending any inane conversations.

NaiveMelodies

kiers47 wrote: »

I'd have to agree with most of the sentiments via the tips and logs threads. They offer little in the way of actual insight and are primarily gambling focused. I think they would be better placed in the gambling fora.

I think this is a great point and an obvious solution to the tips thread problem.
It's all gambling and offers no insight bar a blatant lie regarding the contact and the odds of said horse.

Genuine tips posted in daily threads/ festival thread or the off topic thread will be picked up by the regular users who are posting here due to their interest in horse racing, not the users who are posting spoof and who seem to get a sadistic kick by claiming to be in the know.

And Tom Dunne- this isn't a case of Caveat Emptor for me and for most of us I'd imagine- it's a case of improving the quality of the forum as this drivel, as I've stated before, doesn't encourage a better quality of poster from engaging.

darced

This post has been deleted.

Gregk961

darced wrote: »

Would score keeping work for the tips thread? e.g someone who is 8/10 is going to have a lot more credibility than someone with a 3/10 strike rate.

Post the tip,source,info and your strike rate on the tips thread.

Would turn the tips thread into a giant plssing competition and lead to lots of contention and dispute. Moving it to the gambling forum is the best idea i reckon

andyman

I actually agree that the tips thread should be moved and the regulars can post in daily threads.

Bangor Billy

I like the tips thread where it is.

Bateman

I fail to see what good moving the tips thread would do.

People are a bit lazy, if you haven't got the patience to sift through a [little bit] of racing chit chat on a tips thread then you don't deserve the tips. Dropping in, reading the tips, and making money is fine for the lurker but doesn't enhance the forum.

Gregk961

Bateman wrote: »

I fail to see what good moving the tips thread would do.

People are a bit lazy, if you haven't got the patience to sift through a [little bit] of racing chit chat on a tips thread then you don't deserve the tips. Dropping in, reading the tips, and making money is fine for the lurker but doesn't enhance the forum.

I don't think sifting through the chatter is the main issue though. Its clear people are posting there own idea of a winner under the guise of a 'tip from an unamed source' which defeats the whole purpose of the thread.

Most of the horses posted there are just racing post spotlight picks and the like and dont really belong in my opinion

Nulty

Bateman wrote: »

I fail to see what good moving the tips thread would do.

People are a bit lazy, if you haven't got the patience to sift through a [little bit] of racing chit chat on a tips thread then you don't deserve the tips. Dropping in, reading the tips, and making money is fine for the lurker but doesn't enhance the forum.

My understanding was that people subscribed to the tips thread and got a notification anytime there was a post in it. That doesn't work if there's chat.

hucklebuck

As I see it the problems started when a couple of posters were given carte blanche to say whatever they liked and once the poster wasn't directly insulted the mods let it go. So basically saying "you idiot" is a ban/ infraction yet "this is idiotic", "yet another idiotic post", "this is the stupidest post ever" is fine, even though its just a roundabout way of calling the poster an idiot. A number of people complained and were told this is fine and I for one argued its the quick way to wreck the forum. Also one word negative posts serve no purpose, "wrong" does not enlighten anyone nor is it a different view.

As the modding was so by the book in this regard I for one felt there was no point in going to the mods so I, along with plenty of others started posting in this style and the place turned into a pissing competition. Then new members came into the forum and it descended into farce. All of a sudden a lot of other mods come in and bans and infractions are handed out like food stamps on the war.

We were getting warnings in off topic about what we were talking about, I had asked about only letting regular posters view and post in it and that way all the posters know each other and what you can and cant get away with when slagging them. Its ridiculous that people who contribute noting to the forum complain about the tone of off topic get people who keep the forum ticking over infracted or banned.

Here are my suggestions:

1) Only people with 500 or more posts in the forum can post in and view "off topic"
2) Only people with 500 or more posts in the forum can post in the "tips" thread
3) Roundabout insults get one warning then infractions or bans
4) One word negative replies get a warning then a ban or infraction.
5) Aftertiming is a ban

helimachoptor

hucklebuck wrote: »

Here are my suggestions:

1) Only people with 500 or more posts in the forum can post in and view "off topic"
2) Only people with 500 or more posts in the forum can post in the "tips" thread
3) Roundabout insults get one warning then infractions or bans
4) One word negative replies get a warning then a ban or infraction.
5) Aftertiming is a ban

the first 2 are not technically possible

hucklebuck

helimachoptor wrote: »

the first 2 are not technically possible

Something on boards precludes me from posting in the Liverpool Gossip thread so there is a facility to restrict posters.

[Deleted User]

I agree with those who say that the Tips Thread has turned into the Loadamebollix Thread. I have posted tips in there myself but only as I have gotten genuine info(which tends to be from one stable only).
This lark of posting shît up just to make it look like someone is in the know is plain nonsense.

Regular posters or readers can recognise those who supply good info. I think that regulars can see themselves who is supplying decent info and someone who is acting the maggot.

Noone can supply info on 2/3 horses each day. By giving these posters credit or thanks will only serve to encourage them more.