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own replacements?

eorna

do you breed your own replacements or buy in stock?there is good and bad points in both, just wondering what's people doing..i have done both and still cant decide what's the best way to go

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Username John

eorna wrote: »

do you breed your own replacements or buy in stock?there is good and bad points in both, just wondering what's people doing..i have done both and still cant decide what's the best way to go

Do you know - I was thinking of starting the very same thread this morning

I have always kept a few - I wont say I breed my own, as that would give the idea that I put a lot of thought into it to honest.

This meant selling the ram every 2 years.

I got a Lleyn ram the end of last season, so I will definitely keep ewes off him next year.

The biggest issue is "what ewe lambs to keep?"

Should I keep the best and biggest and fastest growing ewes, even if they are singles?
Or just the biggest and best looking ewe lamb from doubles?

Coming up to this time of year, its always a struggle to keep the best ewe lambs, as I'm always anxious to sell a few before the price drops...

AntrimGlens

I've decided this year to keep my own replacements as last year was a disaster in terms of the hoggets i bought in. Bought 35 hoggets last year, 20 texel X mule and 15 mules and have lost five of them between two taking mastitis and one going on her back and one died of a prolapse and i saw one this morning is missing a quarter. Another four are as wild as deer and three have little milk and reared some of the poorest lambs i have, so i've decided to change policy and rear my own.

As i'm now recording everything i can accurately tell whos lamb is whos, single or twin, DOB and weight gain and any issues on the maternal side. So i'm going to ease out of the mules and go full dorset, putting 50 pb dorset ewes to the dorset ram to keep my replacements from and then i'll cross the main flock to the charolais which gives me a better carcassed lamb.
Either way they'll be easy lambed and have found them vigorous to get on their feet and suck and no major feet problems, good milkers and they're better grazers on the hill than the mule who would be more selective where they graze.

Ewe lambs will only be selected on mothers having milk, lambing ease, doubles, 45kg at weaning and no feet or prolapse history in their bloodline.

rangler1

eorna wrote: »

do you breed your own replacements or buy in stock?there is good and bad points in both, just wondering what's people doing..i have done both and still cant decide what's the best way to go

The health benefits of not buying in is huge, but it is hard to do in a small flock, I just breed the best 30% of my ewes to a maternal breed and keep all the progeny, doubles singles and triplets, I'd get about 3 seasons out of the rams before I'd find it hard to get enough ewes not related.
We tag at birth and weigh at ten weeks and badly fed lambs flags a death cert for the mother, but some poor performers still gets through

farawaygrass

rangler1 wrote: »

The health benefits of not buying in is huge, but it is hard to do in a small flock, I just breed the best 30% of my ewes to a maternal breed and keep all the progeny, doubles singles and triplets, I'd get about 3 seasons out of the rams before I'd find it hard to get enough ewes not related.
We tag at birth and weigh at ten weeks and badly fed lambs flags a death cert for the mother, but some poor performers still gets through

find this alot of extra work rangler? is it paying of? i wonder how i'd manage it in the dept of the lambing season, but should give it a go i guess. tagging at birth any problem?

tomwaterford

rangler1 wrote: »

The health benefits of not buying in is huge, but it is hard to do in a small flock, I just breed the best 30% of my ewes to a maternal breed and keep all the progeny, doubles singles and triplets, I'd get about 3 seasons out of the rams before I'd find it hard to get enough ewes not related.
We tag at birth and weigh at ten weeks and badly fed lambs flags a death cert for the mother, but some poor performers still gets through

how do you find singles for lambing numbers....as I do always try keep twins and triplet ewe lambs.....though with the scanning rate this year...you wonder is backwards im going:(

though that being said...I would always try good sheep/replacements...to ''improve'' what I have....and last year the 3 pens I looked at to buy made e160+....at what point is it uneconomical to buy them???

rangler1

farawaygrass wrote: »

find this alot of extra work rangler? is it paying of? i wonder how i'd manage it in the dept of the lambing season, but should give it a go i guess. tagging at birth any problem?

As you say the only problem is the time it takes, I know some people blame it for joint ill, but we tag and put ring on tail and balls at 24 - 36 hrs with out problems, factory lambs get their nsis tag and replacement ewe lambs gets a management tag, the management tags are a different colour every year so we know the age of the ewe just by the colour of the tag, naturally enough they get their nsis tags at the end of the year

rangler1

tomwaterford wrote: »

how do you find singles for lambing numbers....as I do always try keep twins and triplet ewe lambs.....though with the scanning rate this year...you wonder is backwards im going:(

though that being said...I would always try good sheep/replacements...to ''improve'' what I have....and last year the 3 pens I looked at to buy made e160+....at what point is it uneconomical to buy them???

Thank goodness, some one else who is disappointed with their lamb crop this year, I was very short of grass all last year and I blame that....definitely took a backward step this year.
Never really followed up the singles, we always scanned around two (until this year) so it was never a concern,
As for cost, I lamb them at a year old so they come into the flock at factory lamb cost-€100, but they'll only have one to one and a quarter lambs/ewe, whereas a good hogget well minded should average half a lamb more at least, so I suppose there's no difference moneywise

eorna

From a health point of view is a no brainer but its good bit of extra work plus i dont breed ewe lambs( tried and doesnt suit my system) so means empty sheep for 1 year.. But i kind of think its worth it..few times i bought sheep in the past and ended up with different funny diseases and mad yokes and hoggets arent cheap eiither..

tabby aspreme

Try to keep twin ewe lambs here also , at lambing I ear notch any twin ewe lamb who was born unassisted, sucked themselves etc, then at weaning I pick out the best of them, will keep some singles if the twins not good enough, I usually scan around 1.9 but back to 1.6 this year due too no grass last year , never had as little trouble at lambing though and lambs doing very well this year so things even themselves out

rangler1

tabby aspreme wrote: »

Try to keep twin ewe lambs here also , at lambing I ear notch any twin ewe lamb who was born unassisted, sucked themselves etc, then at weaning I pick out the best of them, will keep some singles if the twins not good enough, I usually scan around 1.9 but back to 1.6 this year due too no grass last year , never had as little trouble at lambing though and lambs doing very well this year so things even themselves out

Same here, never had as few losses and relatively easy lambing

AnFeirmeoir

Breed my own.
Try to stay in the business of selling sheep, not buying in as much as possible.
Home beed sheep also have a resistance to the bad stuff on your farm I think

sako 85

Breed our own, have been breeding pure cheviots for the last few years to keep as replacements. used both Wicklow and North Country rams. Will probably buy a good Suffolk ram to breed a few more cross bred ewe lambs.

jt65

sako 85 wrote: »

Breed our own, have been breeding pure cheviots for the last few years to keep as replacements. used both Wicklow and North Country rams. Will probably buy a good Suffolk ram to breed a few more cross bred ewe lambs.

bought some cheviot ewes with lambs at foot last april , they are great mothers and the I couldnt believe how well the lambs thrived,

Green farmer

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

Breed my own.
Try to stay in the business of selling sheep, not buying in as much as possible.
Home beed sheep also have a resistance to the bad stuff on your farm I think

It's a lot easier financially when you lose a ewe that you bred yourself , as opposed to loosing a ewe you bought in at €160 .

Lano Lynn

breed own replacement females and increasingly own rams as well.
notch possible lambs at birth but also different notch for absolutely not to be retained. would prefer to keep a single from a sound ewe than a twin from a ewe with mastitis or prolapse.
usually outcross young ewes and use proven older ewes to breed replacements

Username John

As per earlier comment - as I only have one small flock, from which I seel factory lambs and keep replacements from, its always a dilemma as to what lambs to keep, and what to sell.

What would you guys do in this situation?

In the past - I used to keep the best ewe lambs from twins, sell the rest. (This is of course assuming there is a good history with the ewe, and is a nice lamb to start with)

But I don't know if I should look at keeping some of the best single ewe lambs as well?
Is there is a proven link between lambs from multiples, are more likely to produce multiples?

sako 85

I've read that there is very little heritability in prolificacy. The one advantage of keeping single ewe lambs as replacements is they will nearly always be strong enough to tup in their first year.

Green farmer

One simple way of doing it would be keeping the ones that thrive and look the best in September each year. Personally I'm waiting to get a belclare ram this summer, specifically for breeding ewe lambs. I'll put him with my favourite ewes that have been trouble free over the last few years and consistently given me twins. I think if you cull hard for a few years also, what you've left will give you decent stock when crossed with a decent ram.

Birdnuts

Username John wrote: »

As per earlier comment - as I only have one small flock, from which I seel factory lambs and keep replacements from, its always a dilemma as to what lambs to keep, and what to sell.

What would you guys do in this situation?

?

I,m lucky in that I can consult people who have vastly more experience then my self ie. the in-laws. God knows what shape would be on the place without their input.

Cran

Do both here, moved to breeding replacements couple of years ago. The ewes bought in are to breed replacements for one flock and as replacements for another I look after, all from a trusted source. Have a long way to go I think in developing the ewes to what I want and considering doing another cross back to my own bred ewes at the moment.
Used to do the colour tag thing as well and found it great. Bought reader this year and tagging replacement breed at birth now. Also record ease of lambing, weights at 8 weeks and at weaning, anything that needs lame treatment continously culled too and got Lleyn rams gene marked for few things( waiting on results).

Might be over thinking it but sure it's an interest

AnFeirmeoir

I'm planning on putting in the bleclare ram for just the first 2 weeks and then replace him with a terminal ram for rest of them.

I reckon he'll get through enough ewes in 2 weeks to provide replacements, the replacements will be the oldest lambs and most likely to be fit for tipping the following year.
Also, it should be the most fertile ewes he tips.
Its my theory anyway

Cran

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

I'm planning on putting in the bleclare ram for just the first 2 weeks and then replace him with a terminal ram for rest of them.

I reckon he'll get through enough ewes in 2 weeks to provide replacements, the replacements will be the oldest lambs and most likely to be fit for tipping the following year.
Also, it should be the most fertile ewes he tips.
Its my theory anyway

Not sure how successful that would be, I know here 90% lamb in 3 weeks would think 2 weeks would give high % of ewes in lamb to maternal sire.

AnFeirmeoir

Christ, feel guilty just letting him out for a week... Wouldn't keep me happy for a year !

Cran

AnFeirmeoir wrote: »

Christ, feel guilty just letting him out for a week... Wouldn't keep me happy for a year !

Need more than a week your obviously not married

5live

sako 85 wrote: »

I've read that there is very little heritability in prolificacy. The one advantage of keeping single ewe lambs as replacements is they will nearly always be strong enough to tup in their first year.

I keep my own replacements and lamb them down at a little over a year. I ear notch all twins and keep the best and cleanest of them, hoping that the cleanest have better worm resistance.

My flock is mostly 3/4 Belclare at this stage and they generally scan 1.6-1.8 even though i don't exactly follow the book. I keep the odd early single too,if numbers of twins are low and if they are from the Belclare and they generally perform as well as the twins but i don't keep records to back that up.

I generally don't have a problem tupping ewe lambs either singles or twins. They get no special treatment other than shearing at the start of June with the ewes. The ewes lamb down around the turn of the year and the ewe lambs generally 2 weeks later.

What surprises me is that i haven't sponged for nearly 20 years and bar about 10%, they are all lambed for the end of January

ganmo

5live wrote: »

I keep my own replacements and lamb them down at a little over a year. I ear notch all twins and keep the best and cleanest of them, hoping that the cleanest have better worm resistance.

they were breeding for worm resistance in NZ but found it impacted heavily on growth so they stopped

Cran

ganmo wrote: »

they were breeding for worm resistance in NZ but found it impacted heavily on growth so they stopped

Really, thats interesting I know a worm resistant worm gene marker is available. Do you have any link on this?

ganmo

http://www.gse-journal.org/articles/gse/abs/2005/02/g0408w/g0408w.html

Im trying to find a more recent paper where they say that the animals that had the resistance to the worms put so much energy into that they they suffered a large reduction in growth