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Water meter protests

[Deleted User]

I've been kinda following the story about the water meter protests on & off for a few weeks now via the Dublin says no facebook page (looks like there's trouble in Raheny today with the Gardaí there).

I can't say I'm a big fan of another bill but it's very clear that we are going to be paying for water next year no matter what.

I admire the dedication of the people who've been out protesting everyday but I can't help but wonder if their actions won't inevitably help increase the water charges. Irish water have contractors working for them & the workers will get paid regardless of weather they install no meters or 10 meters a day. The longer the protesters block work, the longer Irish water will need to keep the contractors on the payroll & you can guarantee that cost will be passed on in the long run.

What do other people think about the protests?

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Uriel.

ciarawira wrote: »

that goes for both sides of the "argument"

What's the other side?

Uriel.

ciarawira wrote: »

yes one could and i am sure some do!without sufficient evidence i wouldn't be one to point my finger at anyone! no as i don't have one nor am i going to because i am not a vandal!

Have you sufficient evidence that the covers are substandard?

II'm glad you're not a vandal. But I find it strange that you'd blame the product before you'd blame the vandal.

ciarawira

Uriel. wrote: »

Which would indicate the reality that we aren't paying enough for the services we get. Which is true. We've taken two approaches in tandem during the "crisis" reduce expenditure and increase charges. It seems people aren't happy with either. Which is fine, but something must give. We can't continue as we are.

As much as it pains me, sometimes I wish the shinners would come to power, let everyone experience the poverty line for a whole, destroy the country, then let everyone come to their senses... Then I come to my senses

i would agree that we dont pay enough but it's like modern day robin hood (without robin hood) also the cost of living hasn't come down an awful lot but the wages has ! something must give but unfortunately a lot of people are going to have to suffer for a long time before it does!

Uriel.

ciarawira wrote: »

i would agree that we dont pay enough but it's like modern day robin hood (without robin hood) also the cost of living hasn't come down an awful lot but the wages has ! something must give but unfortunately a lot of people are going to have to suffer for a long time before it does!

Such is the reality of over indulgence by many.
Racking up the cost of public service by redirecting public resources to deal with this kinda of crap is helping absolutely no one at all.

Perhaps a portion of Robin hood might, God forbid, be in the social welfare system

Bob24

Uriel. wrote: »

Perhaps a portion of Robin hood might, God forbid, be in the social welfare system

ciarawira

Uriel. wrote: »

Have you sufficient evidence that the covers are substandard?

II'm glad you're not a vandal. But I find it strange that you'd blame the product before you'd blame the vandal.

as i said before no i do not have actual evidence. i only blame the product as it was clearly easily done and if it is so easily done how can they not be sub standard? as the ones used before were cast iron

flutered

ciarawira wrote: »

well they should of thought of that one before they started installing meters! where did the money for the meters come from? if they had of used the money instead of buying meters and used it instead to better the quality of water they could have brought in a blanket charge to pay for the meters! just my opinion !

has there not been 111b invested in setting the water company, what kind of improvments would this sum achive, the downside is that fg's rich friends would have got nothing out of it, now that would never do, now would it.

SteM

Uriel. wrote: »

II'm glad you're not a vandal. But I find it strange that you'd blame the product before you'd blame the vandal.

Indeed. Like blaming the quality of a car window that get smashed rather than blaming the person that smashes it!

ciarawira

SteM wrote: »

Indeed. Like blaming the quality of a car window that get smashed rather than blaming the person that smashes it!

i dont think a car window would be smashed as easily!

Bob24

flutered wrote: »

has there not been 111b invested in setting the water company,

No there hasn't.

It is more 180 millions (source: Irish Independent, so I assume it is not an underestimated figure).

flutered wrote: »

what kind of improvments would this sum achive, the downside is that fg's rich friends would have got nothing out of it, now that would never do, now would it.

I am no specialist, but probably not much.

I can see here the current capital investment plan at Irish Water is worth 1.77 billions for 2014-2016.

SweetChaos

Its disgusting to see how 9 gardai have to be deployed to control these troublemakers when they could be used else where What I dont understand from that video previously posted is why the "protesters" are not consistant in what they are protesting against they seem to wander from one thing to another the "whistleblowers" , "the 1000 dead babies" they look to me like a shower of deadbeats with nothing better to do they are costing us more money each day who has to pay for the Guards that are standing there thats right the taxpayers not them Look at there other videos the guards have to control them in many of then one wrong move the claim to be pushed hurt and claim compo it says a lot

I agree with the people from the country protesting that have been on a boil notice for years and wanting a better supply before they pay but dublin has a good supply but these dublin says no crowd are a bunch of intimating thugs who want everything in life for free

Uriel.

ciarawira wrote: »

as i said before no i do not have actual evidence. i only blame the product as it was clearly easily done and if it is so easily done how can they not be sub standard? as the ones used before were cast iron

what's the standard?

How can you claim substandard with no evidence?

Little CuChulainn

Full story about todays "protest" is up on the Journal now. Not sure how reliable it was. Turns out Irish Water were trying to repair damage done to the pipes during the night by some plumbers trying to bypass the meters. Some wheelchair user managed to lie himself on the ground behind a digger too it seems, going by the pictures. So you can add a wasted ambulance to the cost of their protest too. I don't understand why Irish Water just don't give each householder a choice. Meter or estimated bill.

Bob24

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I don't understand why Irish Water just don't give each householder a choice. Meter or estimated bill.

Maybe that would be a way to buy peace at the beginning, but I guess it is not sustainable and it would defeat one of the purpose of having meters: heavy users know who they are and would all pick the assed charge.

Uriel.

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

Full story about todays "protest" is up on the Journal now. Not sure how reliable it was. Turns out Irish Water were trying to repair damage done to the pipes during the night by some plumbers trying to bypass the meters. Some wheelchair user managed to lie himself on the ground behind a digger too it seems, going by the pictures. So you can add a wasted ambulance to the cost of their protest too. I don't understand why Irish Water just don't give each householder a choice. Meter or estimated bill.

And any unpaid bills deducted from state payments, tax credits etc.

Barely There

ciarawira wrote: »

as i said before no i do not have actual evidence. i only blame the product as it was clearly easily done and if it is so easily done how can they not be sub standard? as the ones used before were cast iron I haven't got a clue what I'm talking about really.

FYP

No Pants

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

So you can add a wasted ambulance to the cost of their protest too.

Just read that and I'm unsure why an ambulance was needed. Just grab an ankle and drag the silly ****er to the kerb.

sparkynash

They can protest all they want but they will not stop them being installed.the sooner the work is done and we start paying the better.

Tony EH

endacl wrote: »

No, there weren't. I'd be anti the metering system, by the way. Just for clarity! On the other hand, there are a lot of people complaining that things 'used to be free'. They never were. They all had to be paid for.

I don't like to see an administration in essence saying to the people 'yeah, ye gave us loads of cash in taxes to run the place but we cocked it up. Give us more'. I'm not talking about the likes of motor tax here, but basic services that everybody uses.

The lack of meters didn't mean it was free. Just that it wasn't metered. It still cost money to get from the reservoir to your tap.

This is the thing a staggering number of people have difficulty understanding. It really is mind blowing.

We actually pay millions for our water through taxation and yet we're told, and some people buy into, the story that "it isn't enough".

So, now, what's going to happen is that Irish water will be privatised and the householder will be hit with a bill, that will rise and rise, because inevitably, they will be told that "it isn't enough".

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a few years time, people will be looking at a yearly bill of near enough to a grand for water supply.

Once the privatisation of water supply is finialised, there will be nothing to stop the company from charging the householder what they wish. Our regulators are toothless and we have had a succession of governments that have been completely unwilling to tackle ripoff Ireland in all its guises.

LordNorbury

Somewhere a line needs to be drawn in this country. If Water Charges are let in, and we've already let in a Universal Social Charge and a Property Tax, then next year or the year after, we'll be having a Universal Health Insurance Charge shaken out of us, and then following on from that, we'll be having Mandatory Pension deductions from our salaries.

None of this would be a problem if we were not living in a high tax economy that takes 41% of your income from you once you earn more than 32,800 Euro, that taxes you at 23% VAT on any "luxury" goods that you buy, and that will take just under 2,900 Euro a year from you via a Universal Social Charge, if you have the audacity to earn a 50K a year salary.

This government laid out a program of deep reform during the last election, they said they would take on the vested interests, (who thus far have had their core pay pretty mush protected from any austerity), who are making this country so expensive to run, the unionised people with no real jobs in the health sector and in the local authorities, the "administrators", the bean counters in the civil service who have no real role or function but who cannot be made redundant pursuant to the Croke Park Agreement and The Haddington Road Agreement.

Then they got elected, and instead of seriously paring down the cost of running the country, they then embarked on this crazy plan of leaving the vested interests in place, and introduced a whole range of new taxes that are now leaving hard working people destitute and all of this is a threat to any real recovery in this economy.

This government has no moral or legal authority to impose water charges on its citizens and the sooner people start standing up to this muppet of a school teacher who is running the country and his lackie fools, the better.

Coat22

Ah you see you sound to me like a would be PD voter. We had the PDs but they came to a terminal end in 2007 when they failed to get re-elected. The unwashed don’t want to hear your views. They are happy out in their meaningless jobs in the health sector etc. In the absence of a PD alternative we have FG as the next best option. Problem is they are in government with the Union (sorry Labour) party and there are a sizable number of leftie loonies waiting in the wing whipping up the masses.

Their hands are tied. If we really wanted all these structural problems addressed we’d vote in a FG or similar majority and let them get on with their jobs but that will never happen here as the masses will always have enough numbers to prevent it.

Chips Lovell

LordNorbury wrote: »

This government has no moral or legal authority to impose water charges.

What law are they breaking?

Uriel.

LordNorbury wrote: »

Somewhere a line needs to be drawn in this country. If Water Charges are let in, and we've already let in a Universal Social Charge and a Property Tax, then next year or the year after, we'll be having a Universal Health Insurance Charge shaken out of us, and then following on from that, we'll be having Mandatory Pension deductions from our salaries.

None of this would be a problem if we were not living in a high tax economy that takes 41% of your income from you once you earn more than 32,800 Euro, that taxes you at 23% VAT on any "luxury" goods that you buy, and that will take just under 2,900 Euro a year from you via a Universal Social Charge, if you have the audacity to earn a 50K a year salary.

This government laid out a program of deep reform during the last election, they said they would take on the vested interests, (who thus far have had their core pay pretty mush protected from any austerity), who are making this country so expensive to run, the unionised people with no real jobs in the health sector and in the local authorities, the "administrators", the bean counters in the civil service who have no real role or function but who cannot be made redundant pursuant to the Croke Park Agreement and The Haddington Road Agreement.

Then they got elected, and instead of seriously paring down the cost of running the country, they then embarked on this crazy plan of leaving the vested interests in place, and introduced a whole range of new taxes that are now leaving hard working people destitute and all of this is a threat to any real recovery in this economy.

This government has no moral or legal authority to impose water charges on its citizens and the sooner people start standing up to this muppet of a school teacher who is running the country and his lackie fools, the better.

a 10% reduction in numbers and an 18% reduction in the cost of public service is not too shabby in the first three years office. After 5, those figures will be higher.

Making statements like public servants have had "their core pay pretty mush protected from any austerity" is not true either.

The Government does have legal authority to impose water charges. In fact, not only does it have legal authority to do it, it has an obligation under the EU Water Framework Directive and EU Policy.

You call Enda Kenny a muppet, but who do you propose in his place? Gerry Adams? Richard Boyd Barrett?

Bob24

LordNorbury wrote: »

Somewhere a line needs to be drawn in this country. If Water Charges are let in, and we've already let in a Universal Social Charge and a Property Tax, then next year or the year after, we'll be having a Universal Health Insurance Charge shaken out of us, and then following on from that, we'll be having Mandatory Pension deductions from our salaries.

None of this would be a problem if we were not living in a high tax economy that takes 41% of your income from you once you earn more than 32,800 Euro, that taxes you at 23% VAT on any "luxury" goods that you buy, and that will take just under 2,900 Euro a year from you via a Universal Social Charge, if you have the audacity to earn a 50K a year salary.

Or is it the fact that our holy low corporate tax is not compatible with low taxation for individuals? And after years of EU subsidies and property bubble to hide that fact, it is time for Ireland to face reality?

Quite possibly there is some money wasted in the government, but I am not sure it is is the main issue ...

Lemlin

kneemos wrote: »

Curious how people have succumbed so easily to this tax, even to the point of turning against the protesters.Yet no doubt everyone will complain endlessly about having to pay it.

You'd be even more amazed then to learn that rural people have been paying for water for years. And then paying indirectly via their tax for the water of other people also.

Tony EH wrote: »

It's not beyond the realms of possibility that in a few years time, people will be looking at a yearly bill of near enough to a grand for water supply.

Once the privatisation of water supply is finialised, there will be nothing to stop the company from charging the householder what they wish. Our regulators are toothless and we have had a succession of governments that have been completely unwilling to tackle ripoff Ireland in all its guises.

I've seen this scaremongering about privitisation elsewhere. I imagine most people would go and dig their own private well if they were paying 1k+ in water charges a year. A good well can be done for 3k.

If you ask me, any protestor should have their water cut off completely and they should be left to organise their own alternate source until they are willing to pay for the service.

Macy0161

LordNorbury wrote: »

This government has no moral or legal authority to impose water charges on its citizens and the sooner people start standing up to this muppet of a school teacher who is running the country and his lackie fools, the better.

Where do I get my refund for drilling my well, putting in a treatment system and ongoing maintenance and electricity costs? When do those on group water schemes get their refund?

grundie

The government could save themselves a a whole lot of hassle if they just set up a website that offered a detailed breakdown of where our tax money goes.

I'd like to know what proportion of my tax goes to the local council, how much to roads, how much to the ECB for the bailout, and how much goes to Irish Water etc. A sort of basic balance sheet for government spending. I want to actually see where my money is going, that is what will ease my skepticism about all these new charges.

That data is available on various government websites, but it's hardly accessible to the lay man.

LordNorbury

Uriel. wrote: »

a 10% reduction in numbers and an 18% reduction in the cost of public service is not too shabby in the first three years office. After 5, those figures will be higher.

Making statements like public servants have had "their core pay pretty mush protected from any austerity" is not true either.

The Government does have legal authority to impose water charges. In fact, not only does it have legal authority to do it, it has an obligation under the EU Water Framework Directive and EU Policy.

You call Enda Kenny a muppet, but who do you propose in his place? Gerry Adams? Richard Boyd Barrett?

I may be wrong there when I say he technically has no legal authority to impose water charges, as the government of the day can legislate for anything in theory. However he got elected after promising to take on deeply embedded highly unionised vested interests in this country, which he has completely failed to do, and now that he has failed to do that, people are rightly standing up to him on Water Charges and saying that they aren't putting up with it. People have no more to give, so everything should be back on the table now, including our corporate tax rate and our membership of the Euro.

You can't have a society where the vast majority of people in it have been left absolutely destitute, to pay for the whims of a minority living in the same society, who think that because they happen to work for the government, that they are entitled to excess pay and are entitled to terms & conditions of employment that greatly exceed what is available in the private sector jobs market. The boom is long over and its about time some people got with the program I think and snapped out of it and got real with regard to pay.

No Pants

LordNorbury wrote: »

You can't have a society where the vast majority of people in it have been left absolutely destitute

Indeed you cannot.

Where is this?

Shenshen

grundie wrote: »

The government could save themselves a a whole lot of hassle if they just set up a website that offered a detailed breakdown of where our tax money goes.

I'd like to know what proportion of my tax goes to the local council, how much to roads, how much to the ECB for the bailout, and how much goes to Irish Water etc. A sort of basic balance sheet for government spending. I want to actually see where my money is going, that is what will ease my skepticism about all these new charges.

That data is available on various government websites, but it's hardly accessible to the lay man.

You mean this?