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The Official Cavan GAA Discussion thread.

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cavan4sam

I'd feel sorry for hayes too played every game in mc kenna cup and league and with clarke gone I'd have expected him to start .

I'm unsure what to expect from armagh . Are they as bad as their league form ?

Are we as good as our league form ,?

Its that time of year again ....bring it on !

best of luck to all involved and I'm looking forward to the game now . While work commitments stop me travelling I'll be tuned to northern sound full of hope

cavan4sam

celt262

cavan4sam wrote: »

?

Are we as good as our league form ,?

While winning every league game most of those games we played poor for long periods. I would expect Armagh to be stronger than most of the Division 3 teams that we played so it isn't going to easy.

Lemlin

cavan4sam wrote: »

I'd feel sorry for hayes too played every game in mc kenna cup and league and with clarke gone I'd have expected him to start .

I'm unsure what to expect from armagh . Are they as bad as their league form ?

Are we as good as our league form ,?

Its that time of year again ....bring it on !

best of luck to all involved and I'm looking forward to the game now . While work commitments stop me travelling I'll be tuned to northern sound full of hope

cavan4sam

I reckon one of Hayes or Brady will start. I'd actually feel sorry for Brady more than Hayes as Brady was one of our best players in some of the league games. He wears his heart on his sleeve.

From what I hear, at least 2/3 changes are expected. One being Mackey not starting and another being Givney moving from midfield. It wouldn't surprise me to see either Keating or Rory Dunne not start along with Mackey though.

Talking to an Armagh man I know, he doesn't hold much hope for them but he does say that they didn't have a fit team for the entire league. That could work either way - they are an unknown quantity but then they are starting players who haven't played for the team all year according to him.

[Deleted User]

Killian Brady gives his all but he's a liability at times. And we saw him exposed badly in the League final, he's probably the least talented footballer on the panel but makes up for most of that in sheer doggedness.

Mackey coming on against tired defenders could be great if he's not fully fit to start.

Pete_Cavan

Personally I think we are better off with Givney at midfield rather than full forward. I don't buy the concept of a ball winner in there, with the way we play (half forwards covering back) Armagh are likely to have a spare defender who can either be deployed as a sweeper or to double mark someone. I think someone like Givney would be totally ineffective in that situation. Even if it was one on one on the edge of the square, I don't think Givney would win enough ball against Charlies Vernon. If had the option to move a midfielder into the forwards (we dont now but maybe in a year or two Argue could play midfield) it would be McKiernan onto the 40.

Dunne and Keating have been our full forwards for the last 18 months, barring injury that can't change at this stage. I also did buy the idea that Dunne cant win his own ball - we should look to develop an attacking system that gives him ball he can win. Having a big man beside him to win ball wont work anyway because it is very difficult for them to link up because that type of play is very predictable and easy to defend against. If Dunne and keating stay in the scoring zone, and we can give accurate and well timed passes into them, they will get the scores we need, as they proved last year - the key is the quality of ball going in. Sticking somebody else in at this stage and hoping they can score 4 or 5 points in a championship match is too big a gamble.

I think in Mackey and Reilly, we have two excellent half forwards and should to building our attacking play around them. Play a Fergal Flanagan type as the other half forward to track back if needs be and leave Reilly and Mackey around midfield as the out ball for when we turnover possession. Turning over the ball in our back line is a real strong point of the team but often struggle to convert it into an attack at the other end. We should look to get the ball to Reilly and Mackey in those situations. Both can beat a defender, both have pace to carry the ball and both have vision and accuracy in passing. That gives you the option of either running at the defence or an accurate pass into the full forwards. That would make us less predictable and means the defence cant set up to stop one style of attack.

baconsarnie

Anyone know if this is being televised or is the Norrhern Sound app for me?

flynny50

baconsarnie wrote: »

Anyone know if this is being televised or is the Norrhern Sound app for me?

Northern Sound only i believe

Lemlin

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Personally I think we are better off with Givney at midfield rather than full forward. I don't buy the concept of a ball winner in there, with the way we play (half forwards covering back) Armagh are likely to have a spare defender who can either be deployed as a sweeper or to double mark someone. I think someone like Givney would be totally ineffective in that situation. Even if it was one on one on the edge of the square, I don't think Givney would win enough ball against Charlies Vernon. If had the option to move a midfielder into the forwards (we dont now but maybe in a year or two Argue could play midfield) it would be McKiernan onto the 40.

Dunne and Keating have been our full forwards for the last 18 months, barring injury that can't change at this stage. I also did buy the idea that Dunne cant win his own ball - we should look to develop an attacking system that gives him ball he can win. Having a big man beside him to win ball wont work anyway because it is very difficult for them to link up because that type of play is very predictable and easy to defend against. If Dunne and keating stay in the scoring zone, and we can give accurate and well timed passes into them, they will get the scores we need, as they proved last year - the key is the quality of ball going in. Sticking somebody else in at this stage and hoping they can score 4 or 5 points in a championship match is too big a gamble.

I think in Mackey and Reilly, we have two excellent half forwards and should to building our attacking play around them. Play a Fergal Flanagan type as the other half forward to track back if needs be and leave Reilly and Mackey around midfield as the out ball for when we turnover possession. Turning over the ball in our back line is a real strong point of the team but often struggle to convert it into an attack at the other end. We should look to get the ball to Reilly and Mackey in those situations. Both can beat a defender, both have pace to carry the ball and both have vision and accuracy in passing. That gives you the option of either running at the defence or an accurate pass into the full forwards. That would make us less predictable and means the defence cant set up to stop one style of attack.

I'm hearing Reilly should stay in the forwards alot more tomorrow. In some league games he was more like a centre half back.

baconsarnie

flynny50 wrote: »

Northern Sound only i believe

I know I should be at it, but can't. NS app will have to do I suppose

Tom Joad

Martin Reilly is one of the real form players for Cavan now and we could have a big season from him. If Mackey is not fully fit tomorrow or not able to start Reilly could play that link man role well. It's something new for Armagh to think about at any rate.

Royal Legend

Lemlin

I'd say most like myself are a bit disappointed to post tbh. It wasn't just the loss that is annoying, it's the manner of it.

The hangover from the Division 3 final has continued. Mackey was sorely missed first half and McKiernan and Clarke didn't look fit.

I don't understand why McLoughlin and McVeety were thrown in after hardly featuring for the seniors all year.

We can just hope to regroup now for the Qualifiers. I just hope Martin Dunne's injury isn't too bad.

A nice draw to give the lads a chance to get their confidence back would be good.

willabur

Brutal bad day at the office, Armagh bullied us out of it. Brawl at the start was down to Armagh standing behind the cavan flag, mckeever playing the Martin Johnson role.. Hope cameras didn't pick it up because there will be a long summer suspension for one of our players if they did. Speaking about one despicable act in particular

Tom Joad

Some here will say I told you so and after watching that today it hard to disagree. I am very concerned about this season now. We are not the same team without Mackey and he looked to be struggling and not match fit when he came on. Gearoid McKiernan was labouring badly and his fitness has to be questioned.

But what's more worrying is that so much went wrong all over the field. Kick-outs were awful. We were cleaned out at midfield. Jack Brady was very poor again, Keating was poor and Givney again continued to frustrate but still kicked a wonder point.

The whole team looked jaded and if the confidence was gone from them - maybe the melee before the game had an affect and losing Dunne but they were really flat. In reality only for some awful shooting by Armagh we could have been 10 down by half time.

A massive improvement is needed if we are to get a few more days out this year.

Lemlin

We need a decent draw in the qualifiers to try and get confidence back up. I just hope we keep away from Down or Tyrone/Monaghan but I just know that's who we'll get.

Leitrim would be a great draw.

Lemlin

We need a decent draw in the qualifiers to try and get confidence back up. I just hope we keep away from Down or Tyrone/Monaghan but I just know that's who we'll get.

Leitrim would be a great draw.

Frankie Lee

Chances of a soft draw are high enough with Westmeath, Carlow, Louth, Leitrim and Clare/Waterford all being very weak. Avoid the Ulster teams though.

klairondavis

I think this afternoon could be the kind of day that Cavan will look back at in a few years time and say that defeat was the making of us. A young team can't but learn from an experience like that. They should go well in the qualifiers. They won't exactly be lacking in motivation anyway.

Tom Joad

Not the worst draw in the qualifiers Westmeath. Two teams with a lot to prove. Let's hope the lads can raise the spirits before it and we can get a few more bodies back fit.

Lemlin

klairondavis wrote: »

I think this afternoon could be the kind of day that Cavan will look back at in a few years time and say that defeat was the making of us. A young team can't but learn from an experience like that. They should go well in the qualifiers. They won't exactly be lacking in motivation anyway.

The disappointing thing is that the lads allowed themselves to get dragged into it. Armagh used a tactic and it worked. As you say that, hopefully they'll learn form it and we'll kick on now because a cloud has been hanging over the county since the League final.

They've two weeks now to take a good hard look at themselves. Avoiding the Ulster teams is what we wanted so Westmeath at home is a game that we should win.

willabur

Obviously very disappointed with yesterday, most disappointing aspect for me was that we were never truly at the races. Armagh although not a great footballing team were more physical and played a more patient game than us and it worked. They got their tactics down to a tee yesterday, let cavan play lateral and make sure there is a man free to burst forward when the ball breaks. Cavan and in particular Mcdermott played some dumb football, turning possession over time and again in the forty position. Here are a couple of things I have taken from the game

1: Gilsenans kickouts are erratic - doesn't take them quickly enough, they are not accurate enough. He was kicking to a position rather than kicking to a player. Made some good saves, but kickouts are more and more important these days and its something we need to work on.

2: Mcveety got the run around yesterday. For me Dyas was MOTM, he gave an exhibition at 11. Fantastic to watch even if it was against the breffni

3: Midfield too callow. We got bullied out of it yesterday from 6 8 9 and 11 positions. We have to dominate there. Gearoid is a lovely footballer but he needs to bring some brute to the show. Givney and Argue the same, no point being tall if you are not strong. Three of them lovely footballers but will not be elite until they step it up another level

4: Passing up shooting opportunites. I read this morning Jim Galvin saying that he tells his players when the shot is on to take it on. Cavan are clearly told the opposite. We are creating for ourselves a bottle neck as if shooters are predetermined then it makes too easy to close down. It also enforces a fundamentally negative mindset in the players themselves. One example yesterday where jack brady passed up a kickable score to churn it back into the mix where it was turned over and resulted in an armagh attack.

5: Keatings decision making. If the man is not on his game then forget about it, leaving a 30 yard free kick short is inexcusable. I understand its hard when he is not the designated free taker but regardless.... anyone get his chance conversion rate yesterday? would guess it was below 50%, not good enough from your elite forward.

Lemlin

Westmeath could certainly beat us if we don't up our game. We'll also more than likely have a few suspensions to contend with.

I'd expect we could lose Feargal Flanagan, McDermott and Rory Dunne. Perhaps even McEnroe and Gunner as well.

My only hope is that any sanctions will serve to galvanise the squad. The body language wasn't right yesterday. Players were too easily frustrated. Lots of shrugging of shoulders and giving out. Tantrums don't win matches.

celt262

I can't say I was surprised with the performance yesterday this team has not played well all year apart from a few spells in each game. Losing Dunne before it even started did not help as i'm sure that Cavan had a game plan built around him.

People are saying that Cavan had a good league are right going by the league table but when you break it down and look at the performances they were poor enough against mainly teams in the bottom end of the rankings.

Lemlin

celt262 wrote: »

I can't say I was surprised with the performance yesterday this team has not played well all year apart from a few spells in each game. Losing Dunne before it even started did not help as i'm sure that Cavan had a game plan built around him.

People are saying that Cavan had a good league are right going by the league table but when you break it down and look at the performances they were poor enough against mainly teams in the bottom end of the rankings.

It may have been Division 3 but its very hard to go through an entire league campaign of seven games unbeaten, particularly when you play 4 of those 7 games away. Meath and Monaghan both lost two games in their promotion campaigns last year.

The bottom line is that we aren't moving the ball forward with enough pace. It's no good playing two big men like Givney and Keating in the full forward line if we aren't getting the ball into them quick.

When Armagh won the ball, they were breaking quick down the pitch and it'd often be down our end of the pitch with two kicks. Our play is too slow and laboured and hopefully the lads will spend the next 3 weeks working o this.

The juniors play tomorrow night against Louth in the Leinster semi final so a win would be nice. Who knows, we could have that many suspensions against Westmeath that a few of these new lads feature!

willabur

Lemlin wrote: »

It may have been Division 3 but its very hard to go through an entire league campaign of seven games unbeaten, particularly when you play 4 of those 7 games away. Meath and Monaghan both lost two games in their promotion campaigns last year.

The bottom line is that we aren't moving the ball forward with enough pace. It's no good playing two big men like Givney and Keating in the full forward line if we aren't getting the ball into them quick.

When Armagh won the ball, they were breaking quick down the pitch and it'd often be down our end of the pitch with two kicks. Our play is too slow and laboured and hopefully the lads will spend the next 3 weeks working o this.

The juniors play tomorrow night against Louth in the Leinster semi final so a win would be nice. Who knows, we could have that many suspensions against Westmeath that a few of these new lads feature!

With the greatest respect moving the ball faster Sunday was not the issue. Armagh had at least one and sometimes two men sweepeing in front of the two lads inside so moving the ball faster would have just resulted in turning over the ball faster. We need to get past the whole 'Let the Ball in' Mentality. While once in a while it might work it is not a smart way to play football all of the time.

The Major issue yesterday was mostly in execution and mentality, we had no one to break the line and draw those guys out from their defensive positions. mcdermott tried but choked the ball up. Last year we had mackey and ronan flanagan bombing on out from deep and drawing players out allowing space to either run into or space inside to pass the ball into.

Lemlin

willabur wrote: »

With the greatest respect moving the ball faster Sunday was not the issue. Armagh had at least one and sometimes two men sweepeing in front of the two lads inside so moving the ball faster would have just resulted in turning over the ball faster. We need to get past the whole 'Let the Ball in' Mentality. While once in a while it might work it is not a smart way to play football all of the time.

The Major issue yesterday was mostly in execution and mentality, we had no one to break the line and draw those guys out from their defensive positions. mcdermott tried but choked the ball up. Last year we had mackey and ronan flanagan bombing on out from deep and drawing players out allowing space to either run into or space inside to pass the ball into.

I have to say for me it was. If you play a high ball into your full forward line, you can bypass their defensive line. That is why Armagh were hittng us quick on the break. We didn't have a chance to flood back. Look how their goal was scored. A high ball in that was fumbled.

There were too many sideways passes played and we allowed Armagh to filter back while we meandered around, holding the ball.

Lemlin

Both the Times and Independent have confirmed today that there is no protocol in relation to parades other than that teams should line-up behind their own flag:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/no-strict-rules-in-place-for-prematch-parades-30341013.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-inquiry-into-armagh-cavan-parade-brawl-awaits-video-footage-1.1826417

tanko

Lemlin wrote: »

Both the Times and Independent have confirmed today that there is no protocol in relation to parades other than that teams should line-up behind their own flag:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/no-strict-rules-in-place-for-prematch-parades-30341013.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaa-inquiry-into-armagh-cavan-parade-brawl-awaits-video-footage-1.1826417

Strange comments from the band leader. The girls holding the flags didn't help the situation. When Mckeever stood behind the Cavan flag the other girl with the Armagh flag asked her to swap places which she refused to do. If they had swapped places all the trouble would have been avoided.

The behaviour of both teams was disgraceful. From a Cavan point of view I hope the players have realised that no scores are awarded for what happens before the game starts. Alan Clarkes position as team captain must be in serious doubt.

munchkin_utd

Lemlin wrote: »

Both the Times and Independent have confirmed today that there is no protocol in relation to parades other than that teams should line-up behind their own flag:

another interesting article which links Armagh to a bloody minded team playing mindgames before a big match.

The Armagh team that made the historic breakthrough to win the county's first All-Ireland senior title in 2002 had a particular fascination with Clive Woodward's England rugby team of the same era.

What appealed to the men in orange at that time was the attention to detail introduced by Woodward to make themselves the best team in the world.

You imagine the sheer bloodymindedness of Martin Johnson and company also appealed to them. They could perhaps have understood better than most why Johnson made his defiant stand on the red carpet in Lansdowne Road in 2003 for the championship decider.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-keys-making-melee-charges-stick-will-be-difficult-30341035.html

munchkin_utd

tanko wrote: »

Strange comments from the band leader. The girls holding the flags didn't help the situation. When Mckeever stood behind the Cavan flag the other girl with the Armagh flag asked her to swap places which she refused to do. If they had swapped places all the trouble would have been avoided.
<snip>

might explain the comments of the "head" of the band who points the blame at the 2 teams and makes special mention of Cavan, possibly to deflect attention from their part in the confusion.

well, if one thing comes of this then maybe the band at an Ulster game will be rotated seeing as they are partially to blame for the melee.