My name is URL wrote: » The protestants were at the same thing themselveshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_Home And it's not something that was exclusive to Irelandhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adoption_in_the_United_Kingdom#Affected_familieshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adoption_in_Australiahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era
Czarcasm wrote: » The Catholic Church were just fulfilling a need in a society where everyone already competed to be morally superior to each other. Even nowadays you don't have to look too hard to find people who engage in the very same behavior, and they may have nothing whatsoever to do with the RCC, it's human nature. If you were to wipe out the RCC out of Ireland in the morning, actually scratch that, let's go further - wipe every trace of religion off the face of the planet... You still think individuals wouldn't want to find ways in which they could feel morally and intellectually superior to everyone else?
Czarcasm wrote: » The Catholic Church were just fulfilling a need in a society where everyone already competed to be morally superior to each other. Even nowadays you don't have to look too hard to find people who engage in the very same behavior, and they may have nothing whatsoever to do with the RCC, it's human nature.
Dan_Solo wrote: » As I paraphrased Stephen Fry before, if the Catholic church only reflects the prevailing societal moral attitude of the times, then what the **** is it actually for?
Czarcasm wrote: » You honestly think people didn't know? There was outcry from people at the thought of having young single mothers amongst them. That was the whole point of these hell holes -http://www.irishcentral.com/news/The-Home-babies-in-the-news-A-timeline-of-neglect-in-plain-sight.html
My name is URL wrote: » The protestants were at the same thing themselves
BigBrownBear wrote: » There's a pretty big difference between forced adoption and dead babies being ****ed into a pit *****
Dan_Solo wrote: » But what about the whataboutery?
SpaceTime wrote: » I remember taking to an old Christian Brother in a school here when I was about 12. He was a friendly and decent sort. What shocked me (even at age 12) was when he was talking about his childhood. I'd asked him how he became a teacher. It was like one minute he was playing football with his mates in Galway and at AGE 13 he was sent off to join 'the brothers'. The guy actually said that he really regretted never being able to have a family or even proper friends! He was going on about how he'd have loved a house in Connemara and go have been a grandad. And he was saying all this to a bunch of lads in 1st year in school. I don't think at the time I took in quite what a profoundly sad state of affairs he was describing.
steddyeddy wrote: » Brendan Howlin doesn't want this to be a criminal investigation. 800 babies dumped in a septic tank doesn't sound criminal enough to him.
ScumLord wrote: » It's very easy for us to see it's nonsense with hindsight and the benefit of scientific explanations. All our science seems obvious now but it wasn't never obvious. You could only believe what you were told and when you could be ostracized from your small community for not accepting the dogma you're just not going to risk everything when you know everyone will turn on you. There was no alternative explanations other than what the church told you.
My name is URL wrote: » That's just a lazy retort. My post isn't any sort of whataboutery.. it's factual. I'm not trying to defend what happened or make it seem any less horrific. If people want to remain ignorant and assume that only Irish Catholics are/were capable of such atrocities then by all means, go right ahead.
My name is URL wrote: » Did I say otherwise? My post was a reply to someone claiming that the Americans and protestants would be horrified by what the Irish Catholics were at at the time. There is nothing to suggest that's the case. And the cases I linked to involved a lot more than just 'forced adoption'. In many cases women were forced into unpaid labour. They were beated, abused and raped, and many infant fatalities occurred. There have been mass graves found in New York where women's 'asylums' once existed. There were women and child homes operated by groups with no affiliation to any church or religion too.http://gizmodo.com/what-we-found-at-hart-island-the-largest-mass-grave-in-1460171716 That's just a lazy retort. My post isn't any sort of whataboutery.. it's factual. I'm not trying to defend what happened or make it seem any less horrific. If people want to remain ignorant and assume that only Irish Catholics are/were capable of such atrocities then by all means, go right ahead. To assume that protestants (by virtue of the fact that they simply weren't catholic) would be horrified by the idea of a mass grave attached to a children's home, is just idiotic.
WilyCoyote wrote: » Yes, but empathy is a very human emotion. Should that not have kicked in before a "foreign" belief (ie, that these girls and their children were the devil's spawn). Faux empathy, which was given through a practiced smile is what these people practiced.
WilyCoyote wrote: » Yes, I realise that rational thinking is not the forte of brainwashed minds. [hope you don't mind I snipped a bit] ...you'll see the picture of a downtrodden population - who found more pleasure in alcohol than between the sheets or up against a cock of hay.
shruikan2553 wrote: » They didn't have to go along with it though. The church has no problems telling us about abortion and same sex marriage now and before about divorce and contraception. Why didn't they tell us how to treat these people and treat them far worse themselves?
Czarcasm wrote: » If you were to wipe out the RCC out of Ireland in the morning, actually scratch that, let's go further - wipe every trace of religion off the face of the planet... You still think individuals wouldn't want to find ways in which they could feel morally and intellectually superior to everyone else?
ScumLord wrote: » I wouldn't really agree with that, the thing is the church and religions in general play on that empathy and human intuition. the church will tell us we need to follow their instruction to not only save our eternal souls but the soles of our family, friends and wider community. But they're playing the long game, a bit of hardship now will save your eternal soul. Being cruel to sinners will save your community/country from evil taking hold. They really pushed a massive level of fear on people. Yes people ignored this problem but I really don't think any of us would have done any different under the same circumstances. We have to learn from this experience, we're clearly coming out of a dark age in some respects. We shouldn't get bogged down in the environment that allowed this to happen but make sure it can't happen again. Because these types of people are still operating in Ireland. As I've gotten older and become more involved in community projects it's apparent the previous generation simply don't know any other way of doing things other than being insidious, money whoring fascists. I relate it to the banking crisis. Yes the people taking out the loans were naive but the banks knew exactly what they were doing. While the people that took loans have to take a certain amount of responsibility for what happened the banks are responsible, they knew what they were doing and they didn't care, they acted like criminals. Same here, the church facilitated the murder and rape of children, the enslavement of women and struck down anyone who could object.
Czarcasm wrote: » You're not answering the question I'm asking guys, which is - It's a simple yes or no question - Do you think, if every trace of religion were wiped from the face of the planet, that people wouldn't still want to find ways to perceive themselves as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else?
auldgranny wrote: » Oh yeah cos innocent babies and young children being neglected, abused and dying is just the same as the banking crisis!!!!
ScumLord wrote: » I wouldn't really agree with that, the thing is the church and religions in general play on that empathy and human intuition. the church will tell us we need to follow their instruction to not only save our eternal souls but the soles of our family, friends and wider community. But they're playing the long game, a bit of hardship now will save your eternal soul. Being cruel to sinners will save your community/country from evil taking hold. They really pushed a massive level of fear on people. ................................................................................................ .................................................................................................. ................................. Same here, the church facilitated the murder and rape of children, the enslavement of women and struck down anyone who could object.
Dan_Solo wrote: » It's a simple yes or no.... Sorry, how is this question relevant to "should we enslave mothers and starve babies to death"? So, once more: if, as you are claiming, religion makes **** all difference to the moral standards of society, what the **** has it been FOR these last 10,000 years?
Czarcasm wrote: » Do you think, if every trace of religion were wiped from the face of the planet, that people wouldn't still want to find ways to perceive themselves as morally and intellectually superior to everyone else?
Czarcasm wrote: » Can you answer my question first, then you can ask your questions. My question was - A simple yes or no will do. It's not a trick question.
comongethappy wrote: » Your question seems pointlessly irrelevant to the 800 dead babies & children in Tuam.
