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Child Item

796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

KCC

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/world/europe/ireland-orphanages-mass-grave.html?_r=0

This story is now getting international attention which hopefully will put the pressure on the Irish media and government to investigate.

Mod: Folks, please refrain from making wild accusations and/or assumptions of murder and torture. And don't use this thread as another church bashing thread. If the story makes you so incensed that your can't post anything other than to express your hatred of the RCC, then just don't post and save us all some time. You can, of course, criticise the events and the people involved, but don't lose the run of yourselves.

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denhaagenite

jank wrote: »

Why should they not be running a hospital specifically, cause they are religious? Religious organisations all over the world run hospitals, many in wealthy western countries such as USA, Canada, Australia and NZ. I suppose that is also bad?

Who should then run hospitals? Only the state?
Well a child dies every two weeks in the HSE system. Great job they are doing.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/one-child-in-hse-system-dies-every-fortnight-249702.html

I don't have a problem with them staffing it provided they are educated, vetted and paid the same as any other staff member, however I believe that they are negated by their religion from carrying out certain tasks (such as management and decisions about treatment methods) to a high enough standard. Single parents? Gay people? Victims of marital abuse who have left their spouses? These are all people who's best interests aren't going to be at the hearts of hard line Catholics.

jank

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Yes? Is that controversial?

So, only the state is allowed or should be allowed to run a hospital. No run for NGO's, non profit organisations, private corporations, religious organisations, universities and so on... o

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Children who get decent medical attention still die in Ireland? I AM STUNNED. :roll eyes:

Did you even read the piece?

RobertKK

Deleted User wrote: »

And I've called it into question.

I'm not being accusatory at all, I'm asking questions.

I want to apologise, I deleted the shoot the messenger later before you posted as I agree you were not being accusatory, so I am sorry for that.
You posted the link to the piece in question so you can listen for yourself.

Resonator75

jank wrote: »

So, only the state is allowed or should be allowed to run a hospital. No run for NGO's, non profit organisations, private corporations, religious organisations, universities and so on... o

Did you even read the piece?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

Yeah_Right

jank wrote: »

Why should they not be running a hospital specifically, cause they are religious? Religious organisations all over the world run hospitals, many in wealthy western countries such as USA, Canada, Australia and NZ. I suppose that is also bad?

Who should then run hospitals? Only the state?
Well a child dies every two weeks in the HSE system. Great job they are doing.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/one-child-in-hse-system-dies-every-fortnight-249702.html

Just curious but can you name one in NZ? I can't think of any.

steddyeddy

RobertKK wrote: »

I have posted what I heard on the radio, no need to make it personal.

Not one post did you express horror that babies had been dumped in a septic tank. Surely it's a normal response despite where one's allegiance lies.

bumper234

danniemcq wrote: »

Maybe its just me but its just a copy paste job i'd say and written by some PR person. Yes its nice that there is a speedy reply but i would personally prefer more time and effort in a reply.

It'd be interesting if anyone else who emailed got the same response or something different.

No because her PA sent this

I wish to acknowledge receipt of your email to the Office of Mary Mitchell O'Connor TD who represents the Dún Laoghaire constituency.

I will bring your correspondence to the attention of the Deputy at the earliest opportunity.

I look forward to being in contact with you.

Yours sincerely,
Jacqui
Secretarial Assistant

Mary Mitchell O'Connor TD
Dáil Éireann
Leinster House
Kildare St.
Dublin 2

Email: Mary.MitchellOConnor@Oireachtas.ie
________________________________________

Chattastrophe!

Fighting Irish wrote: »

I don't see why people are getting so outraged at this, awful thing to happen but what else could have been done and it being so long ago what's the point in an investigation

What else could have been done? Are you actually for real?

Maybe they could have tried, oh I don't know, not killing almost 800 babies and shoving the bodies into a septic tank?

Are you suggesting murder is OK if it happened a long time ago? The individuals responsible may be dead by now, but the organisation as a whole is accountable for the crimes that were committed. Just because it's "so long ago", it doesn't mean those babies should be forgotten. They deserve at least an investigation into their deaths. A lot of the mothers of those babies are probably still alive and reading about these deaths. They are victims too.

same ol sh1te

jank wrote: »

You mean the Irish state launched a war that resulted in the deaths of over 50 million people and the near extermination of the European Jewish race.... eh no.

Ah, so that's ok then, it's only a wee 800 or so

RobertKK

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not one post did you express horror that babies had been dumped in a septic tank. Surely it's a normal response despite where one's allegiance lies.

Yes I did.

bumper234

jank wrote: »

Shh, the mob won't like this. They feel the need to be needed. Sure Ireland was one big concentration camp :roll eyes:

I wonder if you would feel this way if you had just recently found out that your son/daughter/brother/sister was potentially starved to death and then dumped into a septic tank for 30 years?

Resonator75

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes I did.

Do you utterly condemn whomever was responsible for this atrocity?

Those babies did not jump into that charnel pit themselves.

steddyeddy

RobertKK wrote: »

Yes I did.

That post wasn't exactly brimming with Christian concern for babies dumped in a septic tank.

RobertKK

steddyeddy wrote: »

That post wasn't exactly brimming with Christian concern for babies dumped in a septic tank.

It is not my problem if you did not read all my posts in this thread.

You asked a question I gave you a succinct answer.

RobertKK

Resonator75 wrote: »

Do you utterly condemn whomever was responsible for this atrocity?

Those babies did not jump into that charnel pit themselves.

I already did, and this is not about me, I did nothing wrong.

steddyeddy

RobertKK wrote: »

It is not my problem if you did not real all my posts in this thread.

You asked a question I gave you a succinct answer.

I'm signing out for a while. Best of luck

Red Pepper

Despite the likes of RobertKKK, I do believe this will be the final nail in the coffin of the Roman church in Ireland even though I struggle to understand how people still darken their doors and finance them. We need to get these crimes into our history books to expose the church to our children.

Dan_Solo

jank wrote: »

Shh, the mob won't like this. They feel the need to be needed. Sure Ireland was one big concentration camp :roll eyes:

So people who want an investigation into why 800 babies were dumped in a septic tank are now a "mob"? If there were 900 babies would their demands be justified?

foggy_lad

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

What did people think happened in these places. In small towns, people know what goes on.Lay people would have worked in these institutions. It would have been common knowledge in the community. People didn't care or didn't care enough.

Any person who fell out of favour with any nun priest guard doctor or other landowner or professional person would find themself unable to find work very quickly with just a few words in one or two ears, also most of the gardeners and workmen and scrubbers that worked there were always kept apart from the inmates.

Lets face up to what our people did. Did my grandparents know the Christian Brothers handed out beatings as part of "education" Yes they did. Not only did they allow child abuse to happen, they agreed with it.

They knew that the brothers and nuns handed out beatings but most had "faith" that such punishments were given fairly and only when deserved.

same ol sh1te wrote: »

It's the fact that they were done in the name of God, bastard child didn't deserve feeding

These children and young people were beaten and abused and mostly neglected to death, it was not done on purpose by the church or by the state but they ultimately covered up for thugs who beat children and babies, they covered up for and helped rapists and murders escape justice. The religious orders and both catholic and protestant churches are fully responsible for this. The state are responsible for looking the other way and counting the money saved as having more value than Irish childrens lives.

old_aussie wrote: »

Let me look at this

796 children may have been buried in a mass grave between 1926 and 1961

That's 35 years the orphanage for the children of unmarried women was in operation.

22.7 children died each year,

about 1.9 children died per month.

It is not as simple as counting the average number of dead. The figure is for 35 years and some years many more were killed while other years less were let die.

Hermy wrote: »

Yeah, I bet they're queuing up to help police with their inquiries.

They do have a history of closing ranks and destroying files and records in such situations.

padd b1975 wrote: »

The real issue here is the inaction of the extended families.

Again if anyone spoke against any of these monsters they may as well go down to the local river and jump in cos they would be sacked for being a drunk/waster/thug/liar/insert clerical reason here and at these times thy would end up a drunk and most likely homeless and destitute while any children they had were taken into the place they complained about!

My name is URL wrote: »

I think it's incompetence on their part. There's a famine grave not far from the the other one. I'd say they're mixing them up.

It'd take some gobshite to believe that a concrete septic tank was in any way a 'famine grave'.

Whoever came out with that statement should be fired for stupidity alone.

I can imagine the local sergeant having a brandy with the parish priest and asking about the claims of a mass grave!

At least Edna and his cabinet have stepped up, http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0605/621718-tuam/

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform has said the Government is determined to reveal as much truth as possible about the Tuam babies.

As much truth as possible sounds like as much as they think should be released!

wp_rathead

Red Pepper wrote: »

Despite the likes of RobertKKK, I do believe this will be the final nail in the coffin of the Roman church in Ireland even though I struggle to understand how people still darken their doors and finance them. We need to get these crimes into our history books to expose the church to our children.

Unlikely as Primary school education is still predominally run under Catholic ethos..

Dan_Solo

jank wrote: »

So, only the state is allowed or should be allowed to run a hospital. No run for NGO's, non profit organisations, private corporations, religious organisations, universities and so on... o

Run entirely separately from the HSE with no oversight at all from the relevant national body?
Hell no.
Hey, I've declared myself a Jedi. Anybody want a heart transplant?:D

bumper234

Red Pepper wrote: »

Despite the likes of RobertKKK, I do believe this will be the final nail in the coffin of the Roman church in Ireland even though I struggle to understand how people still darken their doors and finance them. We need to get these crimes into our history books to expose the church to our children.

Despite all of the ****ty horrific things they have done i wouldn't like to see the Catholic church wiped out. Despite how we may feel there are many people both young and old who NEED the church whether it be for comfort or just to help them get through life without fearing death.

Dan_Solo

bumper234 wrote: »

Despite how we may feel there are many people both young and old who NEED the church whether it be for comfort or just to help them get through life without fearing death.

No.
That is all.

Red Pepper

Minster for Justice email address is here;

frances.fitzgerald@oireachtas.ie

I think people should email her asking for a full criminal investigation into this matter.

bumper234

Dan_Solo wrote: »

No.
That is all.

Good man, thanks for the insightful input, i will go off and ponder on what you have said :rolleyes:

Red Pepper

bumper234 wrote: »

Despite all of the ****ty horrific things they have done i wouldn't like to see the Catholic church wiped out. Despite how we may feel there are many people both young and old who NEED the church whether it be for comfort or just to help them get through life without fearing death.

They need to find another way. Another organisation. Let them practice their religion personally or via a new Irish organisation.
Fúck those creeps in Rome.

bumper234

Red Pepper wrote: »

They need to find another way. Another organisation. Let them practice their religion personally or via a new Irish organisation.
Fúck those creeps in Rome.

So you say close all of the churches and then tell some poor 80 year old that she shouldn't pray to god anymore and maybe she should look into one of the other major religions?

denhaagenite

bumper234 wrote: »

Despite all of the ****ty horrific things they have done i wouldn't like to see the Catholic church wiped out. Despite how we may feel there are many people both young and old who NEED the church whether it be for comfort or just to help them get through life without fearing death.

I don't want to see them wiped out either, people have the freedom to practice any religion they choose as long as they don't push it on others as far as I'm concerned. I just want them out of schools, hospitals and positions of control over anyone, especially the vulnerable. They should stay in their churches.

And they need to atone, publicly and financially, for their crimes against humanity.

bumper234

denhaagenite wrote: »

I don't want to see them wiped out either, people have the freedom to practice any religion they choose as long as they don't push it on others as far as I'm concerned. I just want them out of schools, hospitals and positions of control over anyone, especially the vulnerable. They should stay in their churches.

Exactly how it should be, If people wish to be catholic then so be it but not being a catholic shouldn't mean you can't get into a school, Separation of church and state needs to be forced here from the state pushing more ET schools to getting the angelus off the tv every night.

denhaagenite

bumper234 wrote: »

Exactly how it should be, If people wish to be catholic then so be it but not being a catholic shouldn't mean you can't get into a school, Separation of church and state needs to be forced here from the state pushing more ET schools to getting the angelus off the tv every night.

I mean if they insist on having the "bingidy bong" every day at 6pm I don't really care, just call it "The Bells" or something