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Child Item

796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

KCC

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/world/europe/ireland-orphanages-mass-grave.html?_r=0

This story is now getting international attention which hopefully will put the pressure on the Irish media and government to investigate.

Mod: Folks, please refrain from making wild accusations and/or assumptions of murder and torture. And don't use this thread as another church bashing thread. If the story makes you so incensed that your can't post anything other than to express your hatred of the RCC, then just don't post and save us all some time. You can, of course, criticise the events and the people involved, but don't lose the run of yourselves.

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Czarcasm

old_aussie wrote: »

Let me look at this

796 children may have been buried in a mass grave between 1926 and 1961

They weren't buried. They were dumped, in a hole in the ground previously used as a septic tank. Those 796 children are only the children we know about, at one dumping ground that was next to one mother and baby home.

That's 35 years the orphanage for the children of unmarried women was in operation.

It wasn't an orphanage. It was a place where women and children were dehumanized and treated as slaves, where disease, and death were almost an inevitably, if you survived the beatings and the sexual abuse.

So any way lets hang the Catholic Church and all associated with this incredibally high (yeah right, <23 children per year) death toll over 35 years

Really!

One unnecessary death of one human being is one too many, let alone 796 deaths, and the way in which they were treated when they were alive, to be so easily discarded in death, not even so much as afforded the dignity of a decent burial as we would give any human being.

You may want to look at it again, only this time remember that these people were human beings, and not just statistics on a spreadsheet.

bumper234

old_aussie wrote: »

How do you know that without an autopsy?

Because their are 100 death certificates that state this.

hotmail.com

http://m.rte.ie/news/touch//2014/0605/621718-tuam/. The nuns have said they would "welcome an inquiry" nice of them

Hermy

hotmail.com wrote: »

http://m.rte.ie/news/touch//2014/0605/621718-tuam/. The nuns have said they would "welcome an inquiry" nice of them

Yeah, I bet they're queuing up to help police with their inquiries.

[Deleted User]

http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/mass-grave-galway-tuam-1494001-May2014/

josip

These people still run 5 hospitals in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Tralee.

http://www.bonsecours.ie/tralee-mission-and-values

The Mission of Bon Secours Health System is to provide Compassionate, Quality health care to those we serve, to be Good Help to Those in Need, caring for the sick, the dying and their families, within a Catholic ethos.

Bon Secours means “good help” in French.

http://www.bonsecours.ie/sistersofbonsecours-ourhistory

Though times have changed, the Bon Secours mission remains the same since 1824 Sisters continue to bring compassion, healing and liberation to those they serve, either in healthcare, education or social services, in hospitals, long-term care facilities, clinics and parishes, in towns and cities and isolated villages, Bon Secours responds to a universal need: to provide to all who suffer a reason to live and a reason to hope.

denhaagenite

Hermy wrote: »

Yeah, I bet they're queuing up to help police with their inquiries.

Be nice if they paid for it too. Great at taking money, not so great at spending it :mad:

denhaagenite

josip wrote: »

These people still run 5 hospitals in Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick and Tralee.

My siblings and I were all born in the Bons Secours maternity hospital in Cork. Luckily this unit was closed down when CUH opened their maternity wing. Worth mentioning aswell that these hospitals are all private.

RobertKK

The real issue the nuns have to deal with is why the bodies were put into a tank and not properly buried.
Otherwise they have nothing to hide, the state via Galway county council had the files since 1961, reason for death recorded via death certs. So I think it will turn out the biggest cover up will have been where the bodies were put, and it will end with this they will have to try to explain, which will be impossible.

josip

RobertKK wrote: »

The real issue the nuns have to deal with is why the bodies were put into a tank and not properly buried.
Otherwise they have nothing to hide, the state via Galway county council had the files since 1961, reason for death recorded via death certs. So I think it will turn out the biggest cover up will have been where the bodies were put, and it will end with this they will have to try to explain, which will be impossible.

Legally perhaps, but morally no.

hotmail.com

RobertKK wrote: »

The real issue the nuns have to deal with is why the bodies were put into a tank and not properly buried.
Otherwise they have nothing to hide, the state via Galway county council had the files since 1961, reason for death recorded via death certs. So I think it will turn out the biggest cover up will have been where the bodies were put, and it will end with this they will have to try to explain, which will be impossible.

That is not the real issue. Why did so many die in their "care" is the real issue.

pauldla

RobertKK wrote: »

The real issue the nuns have to deal with is why the bodies were put into a tank and not properly buried.
Otherwise they have nothing to hide, the state via Galway county council had the files since 1961, reason for death recorded via death certs. So I think it will turn out the biggest cover up will have been where the bodies were put, and it will end with this they will have to try to explain, which will be impossible.

You could perhaps pray to God that you are correct in your assessment. And then let us know how it works out.

I think there is a lot, lot more to come out.

hotmail.com

There's still a lot of old nuns out there that were involved in this. They will play the elderly and loss of memory card that they've being playing for the last 20 years since these crimes emerged.

josip

pauldla wrote: »

You could perhaps pray to God that you are correct in your assessment. And then let us know how it works out.

I think there is a lot, lot more to come out.

Better than any of us praying to a god, much better to ask the Bon Secours themselves to pray on our behalf.

http://www.bonsecours.ie/sistersprayerrequest

Something simple along the lines of "please pray for the 796 babies and children who were denied life and dignity in Tuam" would be clear enough I guess.

Calina

RobertKK wrote: »

The real issue the nuns have to deal with is why the bodies were put into a tank and not properly buried.
Otherwise they have nothing to hide, the state via Galway county council had the files since 1961, reason for death recorded via death certs. So I think it will turn out the biggest cover up will have been where the bodies were put, and it will end with this they will have to try to explain, which will be impossible.

I disagree to be honest with you. Women should never have wound up in these homes in the first place then they and their children would not have been dying under those circumstances.

For those who are trying to pretend that the Church is actually alright here and sure didn't their families know and wasn't the state involved, they really need to look at who was driving the stigma that led to the isolation of women who were deemed to be subhuman because they got pregnant at the wrong time. It was the Catholic Church.

There is another issue which I think needs to be looked at in terms of asking how it can have happened. Free secondary school education was implemented in Ireland in 1967. Put simply, it's very easy for people of my generation and younger to criticise people's behaviour in past generations but it's much easier to create a stigma and control people's way of thinking if they have only been educated up to the age of 13 or 14. Comparatively few people got into secondary education and less of them again made it to leaving certificate level. So it happened because we had an undereducated population which could be easily directed. It's worth remembering who was in control of primary education at the time as well.

Even today, the Catholic Church does not encourage critical thinking unless you are agreeing with their point of view.

I think you are being naive in assuming there isn't very much to see here.

bumper234

josip wrote: »

Better than any of us praying to a god, much better to ask the Bon Secours themselves to pray on our behalf.

http://www.bonsecours.ie/sistersprayerrequest

Something simple along the lines of "please pray for the 796 babies and children who were denied life and dignity in Tuam" would be clear enough I guess.

Sent off my "Prayer request"

please pray for the 796 babies and children who were denied life and dignity in Tuam, Please pray for the babies and young children that your order DUMPED in an old septic tank never knowing a peaceful resting place. Please pray for the Mothers who never knew their children and who may never know what happened to them and finally please pray that the Roman Catholic Church has the courage to own up to these atrocities and forwards ALL documents and names of those involved to the authorities for investigation and possible prosecution. The first line of your vision statement says "As prophetic women totally committed to do justice in radical solidarity with the poor, the suffering and those most in need, we proclaim the Gospel where it is not." please try and live up to this.

padd b1975

hotmail.com wrote: »

That is not the real issue. Why did so many die in their "care" is the real issue.

The real issue here is the inaction of the extended families.

denhaagenite

josip wrote: »

Better than any of us praying to a god, much better to ask the Bon Secours themselves to pray on our behalf.

http://www.bonsecours.ie/sistersprayerrequest

This is my request:

Please pray for all those who suffered and died at the hands of your order and the other religious orders, those who are known about and those that are still to be discovered. Please pray that your Pope, sisters and brothers will express the regret for their actions and the actions of their organisation that is owed. Please pray that your Church will cooperate with a full investigation and facilitate this worldwide through allocation of their vast riches, finally honouring their vows of poverty.

jimgoose

Lo, there do I see my father.
Lo, there do I see my mother,
and my sisters, and my brothers.
Lo, there do I see the line of my people,
Back to the beginning!

Lo, they do call to me.
They bid me take my place among them,
In the halls of Valhalla!
Where the brave may live forever!

pauldla

^^^

The prayer requests are a good idea IMO, and it'd be quite something if they received them in numbers comparable to the petition doing the rounds over on A&A. But is it not just saying 'Dear nuns, please shop Sister Assumpta'?

Un Croissant

Makes you wonder if some horribly shït is happening today that we don't know about. Or we do know about but are ignoring.

Micky Dolenz

Un Croissant wrote: »

Makes you wonder if some horribly shït is happening today that we don't know about. Or we do know about but are ignoring.

It was mentioned earlier in this thread. The amount of Children who have died in state care over the last couple of years. Do most of us care? The answer is, most don't give a hoot.

padd b1975

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It was mentioned earlier in this thread. The amount of Children who have died in state care over the last couple of years. Do most of us care? The answer is, most don't give a hoot.

If the children's families couldn't be arsed to step in, the chances of wider society making a stand was virtually nil.

Un Croissant

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It was mentioned earlier in this thread. The amount of Children who have died in state care over the last couple of years. Do most of us care? The answer is, most don't give a hoot.

It doesn't have the 'dumped in a hole' aspect though. Have we moved past that level of cruelty? Maybe something will happen in the travelling community or something with high levels of suicide that society at large will be blamed for. Cant think of much else. Maybe the homes for the elderly? Or medical cards being denied to genuinely sick people? Something that the next generation of people will look at and ask why we didn't go mental.

Micky Dolenz

padd b1975 wrote: »

If the children's families couldn't be arsed to step in, the chances of wider society making a stand was virtually nil.

Snap.

trey99

Nothing we can ever do. We are irish and we tend to sit back and do nothing about most things, except maybe give out about it to other people and then your issue with it goes away,

Micky Dolenz

Un Croissant wrote: »

It doesn't have the 'dumped in a hole' aspect though. Have we moved past that level of cruelty? Maybe something will happen in the travelling community or something with high levels of suicide that society at large will be blamed for. Cant think of much else. Maybe the homes for the elderly? Or medical cards being denied to genuinely sick people? Something that the next generation of people will look at and ask why we didn't go mental.

We currently have kids in this country who are forced out of b&b's during the day to be left wander the streets. Many are preyed on. The forgotten children of our times.

Things that happened in the past are very important. What is more important are things that are happening right now. I would hope that people who are rightly disgusted by past deeds, look in their local community for wrongs which they can help right.

snaphook

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/06/05/there-is-no-garda-investigation/

Are the Gardai covering their own asses by not investigating?

bumper234

snaphook wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2014/06/05/there-is-no-garda-investigation/

Are the Gardai covering their own asses by not investigating?

I posted this in the other thread

bumper234 wrote: »

Just sent to Gardai press office

press@garda.ie

To whom it may concern.

In light of the recent revelations about the possible burial of up to 800 small children’s bodies in a sewage tank on the grounds of the old Bon Secours home I would like an explanation as to why the Gardai are refusing to investigate this. As a tax paying citizen of Ireland I am hereby making a report of a possible crime that may have happened on the site of this home and wish it to be investigated. The Gardai have the details of this site and know exactly where the sewage tank is located so it will not take a lot of time or manpower to investigate this.

Many regards,

Bumper234

josip

trey99 wrote: »

Nothing we can ever do. We are irish and we tend to sit back and do nothing about most things, except maybe give out about it to other people and then your issue with it goes away,

I agree and disagree.
Real Irish people would not give out to anyone, but bottle it up and let it fester for 26 years before passing on the grudge/dislike/feud to future generations.

Politicians will only do something about it if they think it may cost/gain them votes. But if 20 people email a FG/Labour TD about an issue they want addressed, the TD will recognise that as being representitive of a larger pool of votes that will be influenced by whatever actions they take. After the recent European and Local elections, FG and especially Labour will be desperately trying to salvage whatever votes they can. IMO Labour would be less fearful of the Catholic voters than FG and may push this harder.

Just google your local TDs, spend 2 minutes typing a short email to them all and hit send. The content may not be read, but it will count as part of the overall volume that TD received. I don't think there's any point emailing a TD who's not in government.

I emailed 7 TDs/ministers earlier this morning. I hope/believe that will be more effective than all my posts on boards.