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Why are Sinn Fein "bad"?

turnikett1

I am not for or against Sinn Fein to be honest. I don't have any idea where I stand politically at the moment because I'm just so disillusioned with all political parties and movements at present. I am left wing at heart but my run ins with left wing parties in Ireland have been pretty bad. After having been in Europe it's not much better to be honest.

But regardless, I am curious as to why people give Sinn Fein a lot of grief. I mainly see it on boards but I have seen it in other places and real life too. If you think FF/FG/Labour are preferrable please tell why

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marienbad

Nodin wrote: »

So you've no evidence, have ignored the split between officials and provisional and where the Marxists went, and just refer to a vague "past" to justify an erroneous statement.

Do they still believe in nationalisation ?

Nodin

marienbad wrote: »

Do they still believe in nationalisation ?

Why? Is this 'pick a policy, call it Marxist, declare this makes them marxist' time already?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Nodin

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

So again you've no evidence that they are a Marxist party, and are ignoring the historical split between the Marxists and the provisional movement for the sake of point scoring.

Happyman42

Nodin wrote: »

So again you've no evidence that they are a Marxist party, and are ignoring the historical split between the Marxists and the provisional movement for the sake of point scoring.

When it comes to 'evidence' in relation to something SF has done, none is required around these parts. Get with the programme Nodin!;)

Bannasidhe

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

You say swan, I say it quacks so it's a duck. You can call it lassaiz-faire if you like, I'm still going to hate it. You can also continue to make comments on my literary style as at least that way I am spared your overused of air quotes.

MY support for SF - that's comes perilously close to attempting to dismiss me as some for of SF shrill rather than engage in discussion.

If you had read my posts before jumping in with your rhetoric you would have seen that I have stated time and time again that I am, in fact, exploring what rational reasons -if any- exist to justify my instinctual dislike of SF.

I have yet to see one.

I have seen rhetoric accusing SF of rhetoric. I have seen many accusations in fact, but few links providing evidence to support those accusations. I have seen accusations that can be equally laid against the door of nearly every other political party but mostly which read like FF's C.V. - ties to paramilitaries/ economically illiterate/ populist -

I have seen comments harking back 30 years and comments says the past isn't relevant...sometimes in the same post...

I have been called condescending, told I am discussing things that aren't relevant, going off topic and being a SF 'supporter' - which says more about the posters who made these comments then me - it's the boards equivalents of shouting 'Jean McConville' across the floor of the Dáil rather then deal with the points made.

I am not trying to convince anyone to do anything. I am seeing if I can be convinced not to vote for SF for the first time in my life.

drquirky

As an outsider who comes from a country that had to fight the Nazis in WW2 the words Nationalist and Socialist when put together make me very very uncomfortable.

I believe Sinn Fein use phony left wing ideology as a smokescreen for a fairly fascist outlook . If they ever came to real power I'd imagine they'd most resemble some of the more corrupt South American nationalist governments- beholden to Rome and it's values while wrapping themselves in a flag and maintaining a populist stance all along promoting some sort of convoluted "purity" of Irishness. Scary.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Bannasidhe

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Given that most people haven't a bulls notion of what Marxism is, or care, I think you are overstating the point. I have yet to see 'concerned they may be Commies' expressed by anyone but a few here.

You guys do know the Cold War is over yeah?

marienbad

Nodin wrote: »

Why? Is this 'pick a policy, call it Marxist, declare this makes them marxist' time already?

Well, you just asked for evidence and such a policy is one of the key tenets of Marxism . Do you believe they are Marxist ?

Nodin

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Still no evidence whatsoever then.

Nodin

marienbad wrote: »

Well, you just asked for evidence and such a policy is one of the key tenets of Marxism . Do you believe they are Marxist ?

And if you go through the list of every parties policies, you'll find one or two that fit the bill.

No, I do not. The Marxists rather famously left.

marienbad

Nodin wrote: »

And if you go through the list of every parties policies, you'll find one or two that fit the bill.

No, I do not. The Marxists rather famously left.

You see, something else we agree on .I don't believe they are Marxist either !

Economically naïve yes, Marxist no.

srsly78

Nodin wrote: »

No, I do not. The Marxists rather famously left.

The marxists that favoured a political solution over a military one left. Thus the violent marxists remained.

I'm sure you will acknowledge that SF are a very left-wing party, the only question is how far to the left.

deandean

Looking at the news tonight about Mr Adams been detained longer and being considered a suspect, I foresee him falling on his sword without admitting his part in the McConville murder. I think he will retire from SF politics, and will take a lot of the 'hate' with him.

Sand

To place the denials that the Provos are or ever were marxist in its proper context, even the Communist Party USA is seriously debating if they should rename the party to get rid of the "Communist" brand.

We have always been at war with eastasia.

maccored

no-one mentioned the provos. it was if SF were marxist was it not?

Sand wrote: »

To place the denials that the Provos are or ever were marxist in its proper context, even the Communist Party USA is seriously debating if they should rename the party to get rid of the "Communist" brand.

We have always been at war with eastasia.

Sand

Official SF/IRA and Provisional SF/IRA. Hence, "Provos". No one cares if the Officials were/are Marxist or not.

Nodin

srsly78 wrote: »

The marxists that favoured a political solution over a military one left. Thus the violent marxists remained.

I'm sure you will acknowledge that SF are a very left-wing party, the only question is how far to the left.

Of course they're left wing - its one of the reasons why I vote for them. They are not doctrinaire Marxists though, by any stretch of the imagination.

Nodin

drquirky wrote: »

As an outsider who comes from a country that had to fight the Nazis in WW2 the words Nationalist and Socialist when put together make me very very uncomfortable.

I believe Sinn Fein use phony left wing ideology as a smokescreen for a fairly fascist outlook . If they ever came to real power I'd imagine they'd most resemble some of the more corrupt South American nationalist governments- beholden to Rome and it's values while wrapping themselves in a flag and maintaining a populist stance all along promoting some sort of convoluted "purity" of Irishness. Scary.

So the support for gay marriage, more abortion rights, an amnesty for all illegals in the state, that's just a figment of my imagination then? Reading the above, I genuinely believe you no absolutely nothing about SF policies and attitudes.

Bit odd that one of the people that thanked your post is claiming they are Marxist at some length and the other is thanking them for doing so. Is there some kind of "doublethink" going on?

todolist

Sin Fein is a Marxist,politically correct racist(hate English people) party.I'm amazed they have so much support from southern Ireland.Everybody has collective amnesia about these guys criminal past.

Happyman42

todolist wrote: »

politically correct racist

Boards.ie...always good for a laugh.

srsly78

todolist wrote: »

Sin Fein is a Marxist,politically correct racist(hate English people) party.I'm amazed they have so much support from southern Ireland.Everybody has collective amnesia about these guys criminal past.

Keep saying "southern Ireland" and everyone will hate you!

seamonkey92

The whole Irish Government is a sham, not just Sinn Fein. I bet it's only a matter of time before such accusations about other TD's in other parties come out.

garhjw

Their "economic" policies are pretty funny. Sad too that people look to them as an alternative in this country.

marienbad

seamonkey92 wrote: »

The whole Irish Government is a sham, not just Sinn Fein. I bet it's only a matter of time before such accusations about other TD's in other parties come out.

what accusations ?

Zubeneschamali

todolist wrote: »

Everybody has collective amnesia about these guys criminal past.

Not me!

Happyman42

garhjw wrote: »

Their "economic" policies are pretty funny. Sad too that people look to them as an alternative in this country.

Wait'll you get a load of FF and FG's

It took a Troika to sort them out...nearly....allegedly.

Nodin

seamonkey92 wrote: »

The whole Irish Government is a sham, not just Sinn Fein. I bet it's only a matter of time before such accusations about other TD's in other parties come out.

If Fine Gael turn out to have been secret provos, I will be off here for a week or two recovering.

Dan_Solo

When I started voting I never dreamed the day would come where I'd be seriously considering giving SF a vote. TBH right now I think the establishment parties are a bigger threat to my economic and actual health than SF could ever be. Would SF, AAA and PBP etc ever go into coalition I wonder? Might temper some of SF's fiestiness.