carpejugulum wrote: » They don't proclaim it, but that would be the result of their policies.
carpejugulum wrote: » Tax the rich is of course nonsense. In practice, ordinary tax payers would have to pay more while the super rich would get richer thanks to even more wealth transferred to them through welfare and government spending.
turnikett1 wrote: » But regardless, I am curious as to why people give Sinn Fein a lot of grief. I mainly see it on boards but I have seen it in other places and real life too. If you think FF/FG/Labour are preferrable please tell why
Charlie George wrote: » SF are a marxist party,and they believe that we the workers should prop up the lazy so and sos who never got up off there arse during the boom and the country should keep them at a comfortable level,while at a level underneath them is the family who bought houses during the boom while they were working,lost there jobs and are up to there eyeballs to try and pay back whatever they can to the banks..
Charlie George wrote: » Who should we as a nation try to protect.SF thinks we should protect the so called poor(the ones who never got off there arses). I think there should be a two tiered social welfare system where the ones who tried there best and contributed to society and lost there jobs be looked after by social and the ones who never contributed be cut after maybe 5 years on dole and then maybe 8 years cut again.When they cant have there sky sports in there free house it might click a switch to try and look for a job.
Charlie George wrote: » SF are a marxist party,and they believe that we the workers should prop up the lazy so and sos who never got up off there arse during the boom and the country should keep them at a comfortable level,while at a level underneath them is the family who bought houses during the boom while they were working,lost there jobs and are up to there eyeballs to try and pay back whatever they can to the banks. Who should we as a nation try to protect.SF thinks we should protect the so called poor(the ones who never got off there arses). I think there should be a two tiered social welfare system where the ones who tried there best and contributed to society and lost there jobs be looked after by social and the ones who never contributed be cut after maybe 5 years on dole and then maybe 8 years cut again. When they cant have there sky sports in there free house it might click a switch to try and look for a job.
Dan_Solo wrote: » All poor people are lazy? does that mean all rich people work hard? :rolleyes:
Charlie George wrote: » If you read my post you would see im referring to the people that never worked a day in there life and contributed nothing to society.
MayoSalmon wrote: » How they don't get rid of that clown Adams is beyond me...he is intrinsically linked with the troubles.
Happyman42 wrote: » Think about things like integrity, refusing to do things just to be popular, not accepting that they have anything to apologise for etc etc.
Tabnabs wrote: » And that sums up so eloquently why SF are a poison brand for so many Irish voters. People over 30 who remember the murders, the bombings, the punishment shootings and beatings, the garda shootings, the robberies and the thuggery that appeared nightly on the news in homes around the country for decades.Integrity and not apologising? The SF dictionary is a very warped piece of fiction indeed. :mad:
Bannasidhe wrote: » I am decades over 30 and I also remember the murder of peaceful civil rights protesters by members of the British Army which led to a ground swell of support for SF and the PIRA across the country. I remember the Dublin bombings. I remember the Shankill Butchers. I remember the Divis Flats. I remember seeing Ian Paisley spew hatred on TV but SF were silenced. I remember being searched by a British solider from Liverpool as I tried to gain entry to Belfast city centre* - apparently my accent made me suspect. Think about that for a second. Having a nice middle class Cork accent while in Belfast was enough for me to be suspect... *Belfast city centre basically had a cage around it. If one pronounced the letter H as 'aitch' one was unlikely to be searched - say 'haitch' however... You write as if SF existed in a vacuum where everything was really hunky dory in NI and they were just trouble makers. No - it was NOT hunky dory. It was an apartheid set-up and they reacted to that having been abandoned by the so-called 'republicans' in the South. Would YOU take a shoot to kill policy lying down? Would YOU accept not being employed by Local Authorities for considering yourself Irish on the island of Ireland? Would You shrug your shoulders as armed soldiers and a police force you would not be welcome to join view you as the enemy in your own country (and like it or not even if one considers NI as part of the UK they were still in their own country being British citizens) because you come from a republican background or your name is Siobhán or Dónal or Padraig or Sinead? Conditions in NI were akin to that experienced in the South during the worst of the Black and Tan years but lasted for decades and condemning people for fighting back when they were abandoned shows a complete ignorance of the situation as it existed in NI. The fact is without SF that situation would be on-going. Reynolds/Aherne/Mowlam/Mitchell could do nothing unless SF convinced the PIRA to ceasefire - which they did. Even Paisley accepted this so it's a bit rich that people who did not live through those days being safely cosseted in the 'Irish Republic' are still so quick to point the finger and condemn.
marienbad wrote: » This is such a skewed view particularly as relates to politics in the Republic it is difficult to even know where to begin.
Bannasidhe wrote: » It is? Why don't you educate me so? Do you deny that 13 people were murdered by British soldiers on Bloody Sunday during a peaceful civil rights march? Do you deny the existence of the Shankill Butchers? Do you deny the Dublin Bombing happened? Do you deny the existence of a Shoot to Kill policy? Do you deny the existence of a cage around Belfast city centre? Do you deny that the RUC was heavily biased towards the Unionist population? Are you claiming that all the population of NI was treated equally by the authorities? Are you claiming the the Irish government acted to protect people in NI? Are you claiming SF was not censored? Tell me exactly where I am wrong. Tell me I was not searched in April 1983 in Belfast just because I wanted to go into the city centre while in possession of a Cork accent. Tell me my colleague (an internationally recognised historian) who is from an East Belfast protestant background is lying when he says he grew up in an such an apartheid system that the first 'Irish Catholics' he met were fellow students from the Republic at Cambridge University in 1979. Show me how SF and the PIRA came about in a peaceful vacuum where everything in NI was so hunky dory that very ordinary people of Derry took to the streets to peacefully protest about full enjoyment of civil rights and were accidentally shot. Explain to me how the slogan 'Donegal Road where the Fenians don't go' was a bit of light hearted teasing - as was the very prominent sign saying 'We Got One. We Got Two. We Got Thirteen More Than You' just over the border where the NI buses which collected passengers from the Republic liked to stop with their headlights illuminating that happy little slogan. Tell me how a ceasefire was possible without SF? After the Warrington bombing I proudly wore a t-shirt in London where I lived which declared that Republican paramilitaries did not represent me nor did I support them. However, I grew up safe and sound in leafy middle class Cork far removed from the situation in NI so I could sit on my high horse. I honestly cannot say how I would have reacted had I grown up in NI and had to live through the situation there. The fact remains - SF were instrumental in securing a ceasefire. They got the PIRA to lay down their arms - not FF/FG/LP who abandoned Irish citizens living in NI to their fate for decades.
Bannasidhe wrote: » But sure - let's all follow Enda's lead an shout about Jean McConville rather than deal with the now. How Gerry Adams isn't shouting back asking Enda about Collins signing Harry Boland's execution order is a mystery to me as it is just as, not, relevant to the business of the Dáil.
old hippy wrote: » Bannasidhe, as ever, can be relied on making some eloquent points. I usually agree with her. However; this is about SF and not the horrors that the British forces/loyalists inflicted on the 6 counties/NI statelet. Gerry Adam's arrest by appointment (politically motivated or not) makes it difficult (but not impossible) for some, not to see SF as "bad". Personally, I think SF would do well to distance themselves from the past, as epitomized by Mr Adams.
Tabnabs wrote: » Classic SF rhetoric - any hard questions about the association of Sinn Féin with IRA atrocities over the decades of the Northern troubles is regarded as unfair, biased, and/or irrelevant.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Rather than accuse me of spouting SF rhetoric - strange as I have never even voted for them - how about you deal with the points I made?
Blowfish wrote: » Grand. Now what exactly from all of that means that it'd be a good idea to vote for them in ROI? Gerry is a standing TD in the Dail, I think it's pretty damn obvious that the possibility of him being involved in a murder is far far more relevant to the Dail now than stuff that happened 80+ years ago.
Bannasidhe wrote: » At what point do we cut off and consign it all to the history bin? 10 years? 20? 30???
Bannasidhe wrote: » Is that aimed at me? If it is - where did I say it was unfair? I said they did not occur in a vacuum - do you believe they did? Rather than accuse me of spouting SF rhetoric - strange as I have never even voted for them - how about you deal with the points I made?
Bannasidhe wrote: » What about events that happened in 1972 - are they relevant? What about 1994? Are they relevant? At what point do we cut off and consign it all to the history bin? 10 years? 20? 30???
twowheelsgood wrote: » Short answer. The actions of PIRA would have been justified if they were limited to defending Northern nationalists, or even agitating for reform. Their sins relate to their "enlarged" project - the use of force to being about a united Ireland against the wishes of the Irish people.
Tabnabs wrote: » Both yourself and Happyman42 deflect and justify the decades of atrocities that were carried out by the PIRA and the direct connection with SF. This isn't about the British atrocities, the loyalist atrocities, the Irish Government neglect, this is about SF's complete lack of integrity, honesty, morality and character. The OPs question is why is SF "bad". The answer is that there are a majority of Irish voters who remember exactly why a vote for SF will never be acceptable.
