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Cork GAA Discussion Thread

SigersonCup

Just thought I'd make a thread on Cork GAA seeing as noone else has made one already. Feel free to talk about anything about Cork GAA, especially hurling and especially the Senior Hurling Championship.

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ShamoBuc

Given the results we've had in recent years any win will do. Hard to see the u21 teams do so well and yet nothing really of note came from the preceeding minors.

Forthright

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As regards Dinnen im 110 per cent serious re Sean Dinneen.Hes raw,and rough,but a rough diamond.Reason he isnt on cork team is don commitment last two years,but also with Alan,and ghrahan and aidan,cork didnt need one.
Just cause a manager overlooks a lad dont mean these not up it.Seamus harnedy ,a prime example.
Liam doyle had to show he talents at junior for clare .

Also , a lot of kimaceba men,no dissrespect meant to you ,arent fans as he was one of them,left for the haven like o donovan of bishoptown .Your not the ist man from there,to tell me he wont make it.Right or wrong,for leaving there,im not interested in thatg
Is he up to intercounty?all I want to know.
In my opinion i could be wrong,I am not always right ,he is ,no doubt whatsoever.I guaratee you he was a kilmaceba man,the view down there be different.
That happens ,shouldnt take from the lad.
For example ,Killan hanlon is a clyda rovers man ,in blood ,playing with neighbours kilshannig,u21 cork,and Clyda wish him nothing but the best.

He was solid against crokes.
Yes discpline is a an aera must work on,but that what you need,a tough,take no sh*t lad against mccauley,o shea.
Darragh o se always beat Nicholas murphy,as murphy took a step back.
Dinneen didnt.
Good coaching ,he could make it.Much much better than Andrew .
A rough diamond but could develop.

As regards your club,Martin collins should be starting tonight in my opinion.Again management aint the best ,and its not a true reflection on Martin he isnt starting .

As for Muskerry they have a chance ,but there lacking a bit of steel in my opinion.Seamus bourke ,young cork minor hurler ,would be a useful man on that panel.Savage worker,grafter .Vaughan has committed to CIT I believe.

Carbery,haven ,and Nemo take beating.
Duhallow with English ,will be hard to break down .

Carbery I fancy ,with Gene in charge to go along way .Some strong lads,expierence and youth.Unlike some,they have a real spine to team,sexton at 3,canty at 6,Aoc at 9,brian o driscoll and sugrue half forwards with colm o driscoll.

Hayes is a fine club man.
Trevor Horgan is talent that may come in to fore .They are without a real star for the future though.
Lot carbery lads have intercounty expierence either,junior ,or minor,u21 or senior etc.

Carbery are in with a great shout this year. They could have done it last year and with that semi final defeat to drive them on, as well as Kevin O'Driscoll, Rory O'Sullivan and Peter Daly who are great additions from last year's team they will take a lot of stopping.

They are very strong from 1-12 but I think their weakness is they lack a strong scoring threat from their inside line. Declan Barron is very hit and miss, Sugrue is probably better suited to the half forward line, and Kevin & Colm O'Driscoll who spend some time in there as well are also more suited to further out the field. They also badly need some one to step up and take on the frees. It arguably cost them the match against the Haven last year and it 100% did cost them 2 years ago against Duhallow. However like you say TTM, they have huge experience playing for Cork at all levels and that should stand to them.

closeline

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

As regards Dinnen im 110 per cent serious re Sean Dinneen.Hes raw,and rough,but a rough diamond.Reason he isnt on cork team is don commitment last two years,but also with Alan,and ghrahan and aidan,cork didnt need one.
Just cause a manager overlooks a lad dont mean these not up it.Seamus harnedy ,a prime example.
Liam doyle had to show he talents at junior for clare .

Also , a lot of kimaceba men,no dissrespect meant to you ,arent fans as he was one of them,left for the haven like o donovan of bishoptown .Your not the ist man from there,to tell me he wont make it.Right or wrong,for leaving there,im not interested in thatg
Is he up to intercounty?all I want to know.
In my opinion i could be wrong,I am not always right ,he is ,no doubt whatsoever.I guaratee you he was a kilmaceba man,the view down there be different.
That happens ,shouldnt take from the lad.
For example ,Killan hanlon is a clyda rovers man ,in blood ,playing with neighbours kilshannig,u21 cork,and Clyda wish him nothing but the best.

He was solid against crokes.
Yes discpline is a an aera must work on,but that what you need,a tough,take no sh*t lad against mccauley,o shea.
Darragh o se always beat Nicholas murphy,as murphy took a step back.
Dinneen didnt.
Good coaching ,he could make it.Much much better than Andrew .
A rough diamond but could develop.

As regards your club,Martin collins should be starting tonight in my opinion.Again management aint the best ,and its not a true reflection on Martin he isnt starting .

As for Muskerry they have a chance ,but there lacking a bit of steel in my opinion.Seamus bourke ,young cork minor hurler ,would be a useful man on that panel.Savage worker,grafter .Vaughan has committed to CIT I believe.

Carbery,haven ,and Nemo take beating.
Duhallow with English ,will be hard to break down .

Carbery I fancy ,with Gene in charge to go along way .Some strong lads,expierence and youth.Unlike some,they have a real spine to team,sexton at 3,canty at 6,Aoc at 9,brian o driscoll and sugrue half forwards with colm o driscoll.

Hayes is a fine club man.
Trevor Horgan is talent that may come in to fore .They are without a real star for the future though.
Lot carbery lads have intercounty expierence either,junior ,or minor,u21 or senior etc.

You are wrong on that one anyway

thinkstoomuch1

closeline wrote: »

You are wrong on that one anyway

Hes living in kilshannig,hes family orignally clyda I believe

EpicPothole

I've done a small bit of research on dineen. As far as I can find out he has always lived in Castlehaven parish but was closer to leap distance wise (leap is the main village in Kilmacabea). He played up to under 14 with Kilmacabea and then transfered. I am open to correction on the above tho. Apparently he now farms in the caheragh parish (O'Driscoll country)
My West cork contact did mention that dineen wouldn't be the most popular man in Kilmacabea gaa circles anymore. But in fairness he went back to his home club at a relatively young age

keep going

EpicPothole wrote: »

I've done a small bit of research on dineen. As far as I can find out he has always lived in Castlehaven parish but was closer to leap distance wise (leap is the main village in Kilmacabea). He played up to under 14 with Kilmacabea and then transfered. I am open to correction on the above tho. Apparently he now farms in the caheragh parish (O'Driscoll country)
My West cork contact did mention that dineen wouldn't be the most popular man in Kilmacabea gaa circles anymore. But in fairness he went back to his home club at a relatively young age

Rubish about sean dinnen not being popular , he is castlehaven parish after all so problem there but there might be other issues but at end of the they do their business their way and we do ours

thinkstoomuch1

http://www.southernstar.ie/Sport/Seans-biggest-fan-is-his-lucky-charm-30102013.htm
A good read regards Sean

rebel girl 15

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

e .

That happens ,shouldnt take from the lad.
For example ,Killan hanlon is a clyda rovers man ,in blood ,playing with neighbours kilshannig,u21 cork,and Clyda wish him nothing but the best.

Seriously?? The lad is living in between Dromahane and Glantane - his father foormer chairman of the juvenile club and the men's club, has relations in Clyda and Kilshannig, but is a Kilshannig man true and true

Horse84

Charleville is confirmed as the venue for the senior hurling challenge versus limerick on sat 26th at 6. €10 in

thinkstoomuch1

The talk about Cork being Gutless ,lacking bottle ,no heart ,and our players are that is an extreme,lazy view for sunday .Yes we need a bit more cut being bottlers and lacking heart is way of the mark,imo.
Since Brolly spoke,a lot seen to be view our lads are soft and havent got it for big stage.Yet the management are immune from criticism for playing a half back in the corner and the failure to sort midfield,and the disgraceful treatment of Laoire ,not to get real game time,not to mind the bizzare subistitons.

I am reminded of Pat kenneally in u 21 hurling now,saying cork beaten by limerick in 2012,,our Young lads had to man up ,and when they have a poor game twice in a row ,there poor players,despite 3 years of Shamboilc woeful management himself.

Look at Sunday indivually,from a so called view that our lads are and Gutless and bottlers

Ken-kickouts have to be worked on ,but hardly a gutless display,had super save .What do people expect a goalie to ,bar saving and kickouts.

Shields-afl wanted the lad,Carlton.Left due to home sickness and love and lure of Cork ,not lacking courage.
The love of cork,too great to resitst,hes only human after all.
Won 2010 all ireland,real leader,great game,no way he is he gutless.
Has led from the front all during hes games.

Jamie-a man that came back twice career,threating injuries,showed tremendous resilent and bravery to play the game ,when he has a risk of long term damage ,down line.
Ring rusty and lacking sharpness,shag all to do with bravery .Remember 2012 league final against mayo man of the match,putting body on the line.He is just back.

Clancy-was
awful,but cant judge a man played out of position.He is a 5,or 7.no way he is a 12,or 2,or 3 or 4.Judge him in hes natural position or dont judge the lad at all.You judge anyone,its the management for playing the lad there.

Loughrey -has work to do.
A coward,he isnt ,or lacking mental temparment.Countless times in a tougher provincal championship ,in ulster,in a phyiscal province,on a beaten antrim team,he single handey kept them in games and constantly made Ulster intro prov teams ahead of an abundance of top quailty half backs.

In a province where hostile crowds are a norm he has never shirked away from a battle.Brolly has publicy praised hes friend many times.
Kelly-again small man,bravery has always stood out particulary in 2010,against a physically dominated game .Put head in where many wouldnt put a boot.Hes work rate,ferocity and intensity tackle hardly represents ,that of a "chicken"he is a braveheart true and true,a real leader.
I had posted 6 months ago,unlikey to play again ,as hes injuries so bad.
Again he defied all the odds ,and thats not a lacking heart in any way ,he has more guts ,than anyone can imagine.Again risks long term problems after hip injury to play for cork.Real bravery .

Cahalane,son of Niall ,hardly gutless.Plenty cut in him.How fickle some are run with hare ,and chase with the hound.Two weeks ago,he was lauded for showing plenty cut to Callian,the same cahalane that showed Downes he relished the rough game in 2011 u 21,same cahalane that single handley brought cork back to win the game ,against Galway and to a point against tyrooe in minor 2010.
Again came back loney road ,recovery double hip opertaion .
Brave to try two codes.

Yes naive and unlogical to believe dualism is feasible ,but brave to commit to it.single handley won u21.minor games at club and county,and just 22.
The man has character .He has aeras to improve,without a shadow of a doubt,heart isnt a problem though.

Gould-temparment and fight yes questionable,however has had two games ,and stood up .Bottle to be questioned,was reason there .

Butcher-aint a fan ,never have been,but jesus I cant question hes bravery or bottle .If he had talent,hed be sum player.Countless times he puts body on the line,look at that gut ,clinching tackle against tyrone that the game was stopped for 5 minutes .He isnt afraid ,hes brave .
Problem is hes limited.

mark collins-light and small,takes several punirhment games ,bravery is hardly a problen,been superb cork u 21.He. Went up a ball that he could been a ham sandwich against dublin got the goal.No lack of bottle.
Kerrigan- I had questioned hes bottle and temparment but last four games stood up.
Donnacha -shy lad that sat in the car,after corks ist taraining session,hadnt played underage much in cork,and doubted had he the talent for cork,is a Warrior,leader,has been a one man show cork for years ,when we had no other forwards and a slow laboured game.Has had plenty guts and bottle scoring penalites against kerry and in 2010 the dubs and when the need was greatest gqeat point against down 2010

Goulding-should got all star in 2010,was ice cool with placed balls,always at underage and senior done it against kerry.

Yes hes lazy,must step up.However there is a huge difference between lazyiness and having no heart or being bottlers or gutless.
Lazy,you dont have the appettie to do it. HE Expects it to happen ,than makes it happen .
A coward you have a fear,that inhibits you to do a task.Goulding isnt a coward.

Hurley,7 games,1-26 from play,3 points in killarney last year ,5 against tyone in 2010,single handely goal and a few points to bring us back in the game against galway u21 last year.

7 points against a beaten cork team in mayo and a goal.
5 last sunday .
In u21 in 2012,13 ,the ref blew,Hurley was the last man with the ball in hand ,in hes own defence.

Hes part of Rnla coastguard,goes out ,in seas saves lives ,every call he ,risks hes own,for safety of others,he is A braveheart and courage of a lion,and fearless in life,i doubt he has a problem on the ptich in that regard.

Colm-3 times made lonely recovery 3 cruciates -and could have walked away.Just back won ,an all star,will win another one.
Ist seniorfinal got goal point against kerry,winning goal against laois in u21 final, captain the u21 team ,outstanding against donegal 2012,,he is a warrior.

Played in mayo ,3 days after the tragic loss of hes cousin in a tragic accident ,a talented ballyclough young gaa player.This lad isnt lacking heart.

You break it down and collectiavely add them up,whatever the faults are,these 15 against dublin arent lads lacking heart,or bottle or guts.
A Lot of strong characters started Sunday.That wasnt why we lost.

They were tactically outmanovered ,and had wrong players in key positions.Midfield being the Crux of it ,and warning signs were clear as xmas is 25th december at half time,yet Our Management failed to rectify it.They thought,and it was blatantly naive to think cork happy place at half time was great .The post match talk,they shell shocked by the 2nd half ,is a huge concern ,that these crew can actually read a game in its moment ,not 4 days after.
Power point presenations and empowerment and science is fine ,but isnt worth a fiddlers,in you must have a selector than reads a game also .A games flow is ever changing,up and down ,you must be able to read it .

I cant say with anything to back it up,we have any 5 of the set up in management proven in that regard.They all have,skillsets,but Tactial nous im hughely concerened with .

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/04/15/possession-game-ruled-dubs/#.U0-W2RIfKFE.twitter

As Said,By Christy absorbing,the lessons of sunday is key to cork future.
Thats my Huge worry though,i have seen nothing to suggest management see midfield as an issue,yet most of Cork can .They exornated it after one game.
Its not hard to see in fairness,so being young management is no excuse,and I dont buy that nonense

Calling cork bottlers etc ,is far fetched imo.We lost the possesion game.Its as simple as that.I said it sunday ,and that article confirmed it.

Gary ,the answer to your question
Im only saying this as you asked that question.I dont want the thread to go of topic in this.

I go to a lot of matches,clubs,intercounty,u14,15 etc,harty cup,schools,training matches,challenges ,ladies when I get the chance(rarely though)The key those matches is you meet real people,from the ground up ,not the prawn sandwich type who just turn up sun on the back in croker,(keanes words ,i paraphrase him at times as im a huge fan of hes hunger,want ,desire,no nonense style) ,but the type where wife or mother washing jersey night up before til 2 morn making sambos ,and. Doing teams clothes ist in wash basket before there own. THEY are Real people,they give you real knowlege.
Underage is a huge interest to me ,future for cork is here and other counties.People underestime the value of underage.

You build up a trust and familarity and respect with other gaa fans .They know you ,at matches,going to a lot,always likely to tell you what goes on.I made many contacts ,through just matches and training ,and watching lads etc,in all of cork.

Trusted and reliable scources are build over time.it ,takes time to develop,grow ,nourish that bond.its a two way process,you earn there trust, they earn yours.
The club games is great to meet people,as action isnt as intense and you have more time to talk and you meet lot that cant go to others.

You must have trust worthy scources.
You wouldnt drink water from a tap,unless you know the scource,its the same concept.I dont't believe anything unless I trust that scource.

Media,can be a good scource for other info like matches times ,rules etc ,if you read the write ones.

I read the media ,but I pick and choose my journalists that I read.
For example I would rate 4 very good journalists I trust and read a ,a lot ,3 from Cork,1 outside.
i dont differeniate between any like,hurling,minor etc,men or women.
A lot lazy journalists that go for the easy read in the media.

Theres two good gaa sites for other intercounty matches ,that I follow and would recommend and I have to many ,live gaelic for matches I cant go to,would have been lost without that for sigerson and Dont.foul.com,is a site ,im impressed with ,the staticscal breakdown and the attention to detail .GAA is my main priority in sport,only games I go to.Watch other sports ,Munster rubgy,but wouldnt go to a match,always clash gaa.

Anyway back to whats More important ,Cork GAA.

As regards Mark Sugrue , yes is he a pheomenal talent.He must be developed ,but at 21 and good coaching he can be.Taken of the last game,expect a back lash saturday.Id be shocked,he had two bad games in a row .

However he needs to watch match burnout.
Played cork last wednesday ,then saturday a junior game for bandon,then Monday for carbery ,and now Saturday u21,thats 4 games in 11 days in football.
Recovery time is the most important part of any athletes program.

He has hurling u21 cork in two months.Again next year must choose one code.

On that note ,munster u21 hurling is starting in 6 weeks.Were out in july ,But they will be beaten in that game,and I have a huge fear it could be a bad beating what I saw in 3 challenges against clare,wexford and cork intermediates ,we are miles,miles of what we should be .Good hurlers made look poor,and crucially loosing two years of development time ,and Senior will suffer.Our basic skills leave a lot to be desired.

We are also going to be without two key men ,for that ,one lad made him unavaible for selection.I don't blame the lad .Two key forwards were without that would grace any team in the country at any grade.

If we get hammered there wont be a whisper of discontent with the top brass.It. Will be what Waterford are doing right, rather than what Cork are doing wrong.

When I see the management,selectors even who they have,they have done nothing to merit there involment.
I have seen better set ups at junior b hurling if im honest .U21 set up is a dissaster waiting to happen.

Last night was some mismatch in minor.I expected an easy win,but jeusus not that.That was no test to cork.
Limerick football is in dire strait at present .The problem they face is a few of the hurlers,the Monaleen lads for example ,arent playing football.Limerick are primarly focused on hurling,and selectors dont want top lads play in both.
Cork seniors could learn .
In fact limerick are ruthless.An u16 development player didnt make the cut U16 trials,as he was playing soccer .He was eventually let back.He decided to walk ,over it though,and stuck to the soccer.Kevin daly ,a hurler,unlucky not to make hurling cut,played tonight for them .
If he was with the hurling,wouldnt played football.If its true what I heard,is that limerick managenent wouldnt entertain both,as they want to go all out minor hurling instead.
I do think at minor dual is feasible,but its gas a county at minor say no to it,yet we try it at senior.

No point in rating cork .-1 to 15,as limerick had just few points 1st half thats how bad they were.
The inside line of hurley ,buckley and kingston got around 20 total scores.Id prefer Kingston outside.
Hurley was devasting ,as was buckley.Hurley is actually better than Big bring brother Brian that good.Micheal I said it in february be unreal,he got around 2-4 facthnas against kerry school group stages corn u mhuire.

He will be playing senior with cork within two years.Gene wil bring him on leaps and bounds with sean hayes next year at u21.Sean donughe didnt rest the laurels from saturday had a great ist half.

Just one worry,kiely was beaten at times, in the half he played i think hes a savage player but isnt a half back.He is a better forward.
Good win,credit all but kerry is the real judge of the team.They guaranteed to have at least 3 more games.They will make the final ,and if beaten have a quater final.

The final word has go go to Diarmuid buckley,great game,and great bring joy to Ballycough ,in they like I said earler lost a young player tragically .
Ballycough has fine talent ,in Colm o neill,paul flynn u21 and senior and had mark hefferanean ,with u21 extended panel last year.

They have Adam finnegan also,a suprise ommison from this squad.
With development squads.

Play clare or limerick or waterford next in a semi final,Likey to be clare .
Cork challenge matches must be tougher opponents too from here on.Wexfords,kildares,and offalys they played arent real tests.Again as I say,prepartion leaves a lot to be desired.

Galways,meaths ,mayos ,or northern teams ,are the ones we should play.
Our minors hurlers ,have top top challenges lined up ,kilkenny is one I believe
Take the u21 footballers as an example ,played Dublin and Galway in there build up .Yes we played kildare,clare,tralee it etc also,but we played the two top teams in the country in many people view.

Intermediate hurlers are flying,said it all year, great chance to win munster hurling this year,even do Alan frahill connor is out til june.There management are going to a lot u21 games checking out players etc

Waterford hurlers cant train til the start of may,there own board has club as priority til then.Bit of a joke,4 weeks before championship.
This challenge next week Cork and , Limerick both teams should field strong teams.Talk is limerick will play a sweeper even in that game.I sincerley hope they do .Next saturday should be a great crowd.
Cork may and probably will beat waterford,espiceally they go 15 v 15.
Clare is a huge,obstacle though if we get there.

The one worry is id have waterford being relegated and now training curtail is there backs are to the wall and they could fear a whitewash if they go a shoot out with cork.They may ,want save face ,and they could well play a sweeper .If they do that,Cork are very much there for the taking.Waterford want to play open style hurling ,but backs to the wall they may change style.If I was waterford,id be playing a sweer against Cork,moloumphy or kevin moran

Big Inter divisonal comp now in 3 weeks ,bank holiday , .Problem for people is which one to go to ,A u16 hurling playing outside Cork,bs North cork etc in cork.Im a strong advocate ,thats Underage Cornerstone future,sustained Success at all levels.

Same team as last week,for cork u21 team for saturday .Great to see hanlon keep hes place ,and Corkery also .Roscommon are going to push us to the wire ,last year we beat them in a challenge,but there Form is good with all our 21 lads .Hanlon captained Kilshannig b avondu title last saturday,and played Avondu senior Monday.
Again 4 games in 11 days is my only worry .Gene and Sean I trust to go easy them training this week.Maguire,Hanlon,and kiely at very least break even in the middle of the field.

Cadogan is on fire at the moment.Himself,dan should do damage.
Corkery likey to play deep again half forward line.

My worry is dorman.Shouldnt be at 3.Fulgnatti isnt an option at 3.
Crowley is our best stop gap.
Were going to get crucifed at 3 some day .And we have already in some games.I feel for Dorman,not hes fault at 3 and a super half back.

Billy MorGan an astute manager ,wouldnt play Dorman at 3 ,despite O mahony being average for ucc in the sigerson.My believe is in Gene and Sean they will rectify it .Thats my only criticism them .He rated o Mahony over him,thats tell it own story .I dont rate o mahony,but id have him at 3 than dorman any day of the week.

We should win though.
We had two great tests ,roscommon had a easy final.Vaughan is out still.
Brosnan is fit ,i dont rate him,much to start,but roscommon game suit him.A good sub for then .
If we get to a final,without Oakes and Vaughan,some achievement year one for Sean and Gene .

I have a feeling cavan will beat Dubs .Last year stand to them.There a dogged formiddable team.Huge spirit in then.Dublin on paper should win ,but Cavan blanket system will frustrate dublin who want to attack.Cavan are right to play that style,as no way would come close even,if its a shootout .
If cork do get cavan in a final,its going to be a titanic battle,as will dubs,but dublin would suit us,they want to play football.

Still I would like cavan and cork in a final ,we have only,i may be wrong met once in an all ireland final that was 1945 senior .

thinkstoomuch1

Horse84 wrote: »

Charleville is confirmed as the venue for the senior hurling challenge versus limerick on sat 26th at 6. €10 in

Should be a big crowd,you think we beat waterford ,4 weeks

Deco99

Back to the football. Interesting quotes from Roberto Martinez, he said technical ability, tactics and physical condition decide games when the games are meaningless, when there is something on the line pyschological strength is the key factor, and a winning mentality is key to success. Last Sunday, Dublin had this in abundance. I dont believe bottle or heart have much to do with it, how do you measure them? how do you instill them in players? We had a winning mentality in 2010 in the semi against the Dubs and even though at times in the final we were poor, we still had it. The Dubs have found it again, Mayo may never find it, Kerry will always have it (thats why they'll always be dangerous even if the talent isnt what it used be). We can find it again but going through the traditional route will be key. No back door

Horse84

I think we have a better squad than Waterford, just about. What's being said about them not training together at the minute is being blown out of proportion if what I'm hearing is true so I wouldn't be paying much attention to that at all.

A lot will depend on how we're set up 2-9 I feel, and I do expect wford to play with Molumphy playing a sweeper role which he can do and a great man to win dirty ball, that's where we could struggle. Waterford aren't as bad as their league relegation suggests, much like us last year. They have some big game players in brick and Moran and if on form Maurice Shan can do serious damage. I think Shane o sullivan could miss it, who's a big loss for them.

There's no reason why we shouldn't be beating them but going out and actually putting them away is another matter and in championship a huge step up from what we've played so far this year.

thinkstoomuch1

Fair enough Rg15 regards kilshannig.My apologies,certainly dont want or intend to take away from kilshannig,i have praised them many times,and there 5 year strategic plan ,and recently I believe were celebrating anniversay of there county success.A fine clubg

I had heard he was a cylda orignally,but obivously not .Hes so good ,they want to claim him :-)

He is a very good player and deserves to start,and I full of praise after that great wonderful win ,against tipp u21 ,i belive tipp havent got over yet .That was a truly great tipp team,we beat.

Gary Neville

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Fair enough Rg15 regards kilshannig.My apologies,certainly dont want or intend to take away from kilshannig,i have praised them many times,and there 5 year strategic plan ,and recently I believe were celebrating anniversay of there county success.A fine clubg

I had heard he was a cylda orignally,but obivously not .Hes so good ,they want to claim him :-)

He is a very good player and deserves to start,and I full of praise after that great wonderful win ,against tipp u21 ,i belive tipp havent got over yet .That was a truly great tipp team,we beat.

I'm very excited about this U21 Football Side, Thinkstoomuch. It's full of quality players and that's without 2 of their top players in Oakes and Vaughan. Kerry were really hopeful of beating us in Tralee after running us so close in PUR the previous year - they expected Dara O Se to work his magic again. Tipp had huge hopes for their U21 Side - as Minor Champs in 2011 and with quality all over the place -O Riordan, Kennedy, McGraths, Quinlivan to name only a few. David Kennedy, their manager had put in a huge effort over the last 3/4 years, leaving no stone unturned - they knew they faced a challenge in coming to Cork but they were very confident.

I fully agree with you about Dorman - he was at corner back last year so he's really had to make sacrifices for the team. Crowley would be well able to play at 3 but I doubt we'll see a change at this stage. I also really rate Gene O D and Sean Hayes - two real football men. They would make a great team to manage our Senior IC Side - maybe when Cubby moves on.

The areas of concern are our FB line with Davis a little loose occasionally and Dorman out of position. Fulignati was attacked a lot by Tipp down his wing and Histon from Cobh is a decent operator at HB. I haven't seen Brosnan this season and I suppose he suffered due to the broken jaw. White has amazed me as a lad just out of minor - he has some drive in him - a lovely footballer. Maguire and O Hanlon did a superb job on O Riordan and O Brien v Tipp - that was some battle to win.
We have 3 superb footballers in the HB line Sugrue, BOD and Kiely - the former 2 in the senior squad and I'd be very surprised if Kiely doesn't join them soon - he was awesome v Tipp (along with Cads - the most improved lad in the team) - I also rate our FF line of Cads, Corkery & McEoin - the former 2 are very fast and Dan will take his score. Dan may be lacking a bit in pace to make it at Senior IC (Hope I'm wrong)

We have an unreal bench with Murphy, McIntyre, Kavenagh, Brosnan, Harrington, Cian Sull - they would be playing on every other side except maybe Dublin.

Rossies beat Cavan in the Hastings Cup and P Power sees this at nearly 50:50 - you can never be sure at this level - we had serious sides in 2006, 2011 and last year and didn't win the AI - I'm hopeful this will be our year and expect to see these players win a lot at Senior IC in the years ahead.

Gary Neville

Horse84 wrote: »

I think we have a better squad than Waterford, just about. What's being said about them not training together at the minute is being blown out of proportion if what I'm hearing is true so I wouldn't be paying much attention to that at all.

A lot will depend on how we're set up 2-9 I feel, and I do expect wford to play with Molumphy playing a sweeper role which he can do and a great man to win dirty ball, that's where we could struggle. Waterford aren't as bad as their league relegation suggests, much like us last year. They have some big game players in brick and Moran and if on form Maurice Shan can do serious damage. I think Shane o sullivan could miss it, who's a big loss for them.

There's no reason why we shouldn't be beating them but going out and actually putting them away is another matter and in championship a huge step up from what we've played so far this year.

I wouldn't take any notice of that training stuff from Waterford - they'll be right up for us and will be 100% prepared. They will have seen how Limerick stifled us when they played an extra man in defence and I'd fully expect them to do the same.

I'd be very nervous about this game as we have a lot of areas of concern.

thinkstoomuch1

Yeah Gary that is a close game in u21,however 2006 and 2011 we went to Ennis,i love clare,i hate that ptich ,though ,im haunted by 1997,and the two years mentioned not to mind ,underage results.
Its a small tight ptich,and I had thought saturday game would be there,i had a real real fear that game,but portlaoise is a happier ground ,easier to get to ,and a bigger ptich,we should do it .

Galway 2011.walsh going off was a huge setback and the huge win didnt help us against kerry ,whereas test against tipp is a huge benefit to us .

White is a superb player and most cork lads have great basic skills but there leaders ,Dorwan,crowley,bod,sugrue,maguire ,mac eoin,and cadogan and Hanlon has that will and hunger.White has a huge ask to make it at senior so many ahead.He is u21 next two years,could be captain ,id say .That good.

Davis is suspect,however has been better I expected.Fulgnatti be at 5 should be okay going forward but as cadogan proved saturday and the county final last year defending an issue.

Histon is great sub ,can defend and he is likey be u21 panel hurling.

Crowley has the reading,and can turn on a six pence ,and could be okay at 3 for now .
I really fancy Horgan as a sub.Could be a potent weapon .
I agree it is a top u21 side.

Horse,i didnt know that was spoof re waterford,makes sense,and yeah there a dangerous opponent.
They play a sweeper were in trouble.
I cant believe one player we had to that system,michael sullivan was dropped.

Whats story with Morgan,has he done much traing with ye so far?!i expect big things from ye this year
Im a huge fan of Billy as a gaa man and a person.Ran the New york marathon in 4hrs 49 at 61 years of age.What a man .

Id agree decco your post and its absoulely vittal ,we beat kerry this year,absoultey got get the edge over them.We cant get an inferiority complex with our new generation.

kilmac14

EpicPothole wrote: »

I've done a small bit of research on dineen. As far as I can find out he has always lived in Castlehaven parish but was closer to leap distance wise (leap is the main village in Kilmacabea). He played up to under 14 with Kilmacabea and then transfered. I am open to correction on the above tho. Apparently he now farms in the caheragh parish (O'Driscoll country)
My West cork contact did mention that dineen wouldn't be the most popular man in Kilmacabea gaa circles anymore. But in fairness he went back to his home club at a relatively young age

Well being a Kilmac man and a fella who played with Dineen at underage level, there was outside pressure that made him switch to the Haven. The fact that he lives in Castlehaven parish obviously being the main reason but there was pressure from inside his family aswell.

As far as him being unpopular well that is a myth. Anybody that I knw involved with Kilmacabea doesnt really care where Dineen is playing, to be honest their is greater animosity towards Daniel O Donovan who went to Bishopstown.

Now I played with both Daniel and Sean at underage level and to be honest I understand why both left to play Senior football, but, and I say this as a proud club man, that I am and never will be happy with the fact that a player can play underage with one club and then switch to another club without there being any way of stopping it (besides objecting to the transfer) But when it comes down to it I wish both lads the best of luck in their careers

corkrobinhood

Not sure if i'll make Portloaise on Saturday yet with work,good team but as i've said so many times already in this campaign,and thinkstoomuch said a few posts above,Dorman is not a full back,and i'm still worried hes going to cost us a game.

Talks of a huge Roscommon crowd travelling for this,they had massive support in the last 2 games,hopefully a big Cork crowd will make the journey and get behind the lads!

thinkstoomuch1

Tg4 doing it live Robin,and 103fm also and livegaelic id say do it minute by minute,as other alternatives

corkrobinhood

Yeah I spotted twas on telly,will try to make it up,hate watching games on telly when its only up the road!

Forthright

kilmac14 wrote: »

Well being a Kilmac man and a fella who played with Dineen at underage level, there was outside pressure that made him switch to the Haven. The fact that he lives in Castlehaven parish obviously being the main reason but there was pressure from inside his family aswell.

As far as him being unpopular well that is a myth. Anybody that I knw involved with Kilmacabea doesnt really care where Dineen is playing, to be honest their is greater animosity towards Daniel O Donovan who went to Bishopstown.

Now I played with both Daniel and Sean at underage level and to be honest I understand why both left to play Senior football, but, and I say this as a proud club man, that I am and never will be happy with the fact that a player can play underage with one club and then switch to another club without there being any way of stopping it (besides objecting to the transfer) But when it comes down to it I wish both lads the best of luck in their careers

Think O'Donovan made a mistake leaving Kilmacabea. He has missed out on the chance to

1.Play with the Cork juniors
2.He can't play for Carbery who have a much better chance of winning a county than Bishopstown
3.Maybe he taught a Senior club would improve his chances to play I.C but I think at all grades Junior lads have as good a chance as any Senior.
4. Kilmacs have some fine young talent coming through and they are as well placed as they have ever been to be successful. Any success with Kilmac would outweigh any Senior county medal.

Maybe he has his reasons and it might be a genuine case but like Kilmac14 I don't like seeing players going to clubs in their 20's unless it's last resort.

thinkstoomuch1

I agree we have problems in hurling key aeras.Full back a huge concern as is midfield.
http://www.sixmilebridgegaa.com/Media%20Section/showfullstory.asp?id=6&category=gaaarticles

Great read here,10 years ago,Rock diminished dual players.Were trying to reinvent time ,a time machine out of back to the future wouldnt do us no.

The article also shows what makes to this very day a full back.Rock was fast had problems with pace ,but he had a way dealing with it.

I do understand the game is about pace now,however ,he may not make it ,i still believe Eoin keane is the best option we have as Cahalane dual code is a problem and the rest have tried and failed.
Keane may not be as fast as the rock ,its could be debated,keane has that same ,strong,no nonense ,style of protfcting the square with great reading .He showed what he does good against tipp,but also showed hes weakness.

I like many said he would be exposed at half back and that he was .
The way l look it if it fails it fails but were kidding ourselves we think maccie,shane or burke or conor sul can do a job there and cahalane do both codes .There gentlemen,free awesome hurlers ,lack that grit that bite we need.
Cahalane has it ,and would make it,but hes doing both .
Spillane would been an option but injury .Like darragh rodgers,we lost two promising 3 to injury.

Spillane if he gets fit be good.

So out of all our options give keane a chance.If it fails were in exactly same predicatement as now.

thinkstoomuch1

Forthright wrote: »

Think O'Donovan made a mistake leaving Kilmacabea. He has missed out on the chance to

1.Play with the Cork juniors
2.He can't play for Carbery who have a much better chance of winning a county than Bishopstown
3.Maybe he taught a Senior club would improve his chances to play I.C but I think at all grades Junior lads have as good a chance as any Senior.
4. Kilmacs have some fine young talent coming through and they are as well placed as they have ever been to be successful. Any success with Kilmac would outweigh any Senior county medal.

Maybe he has his reasons and it might be a genuine case but like Kilmac14 I don't like seeing players going to clubs in their 20's unless it's last resort.

id agree carbery have a better chance than bishoprtown

Kilmacebba two lads,dinneen and daniel o donovan made club team year ,at midfield this year

Has the chris o donovan transfer went ahead to the town??

Ken in goals(still no 1 goalie for cork for me,and totally against he must be dropped)dorman ,and donovans,if oakes was fit,paul honohan and ,Crowley,town have solid team ,but Carbery have much better panel and Gene is a hugue influence.

D'Agger

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

id agree carbery have a better chance than bishoprtown

Kilmacebba two lads,dinneen and daniel o donovan made club team year ,at midfield this year

Has the chris o donovan transfer went ahead to the town??

Ken in goals(still no 1 goalie for cork for me,and totally against he must be dropped)dorman ,and donovans,if oakes was fit,paul honohan and ,Crowley,town have solid team ,but Carbery have much better panel and Gene is a hugue influence.

I'd assume Valley opposed the transfer?

Gary Neville

I was hoping we would have Vaughan and Oakes back for tomorrow's game but we still have a strong squad. TTM posted that Vaughan has a grade 4 quad injury - anybody know what's wrong with Sam Oakes and when he might be back ?

It's practically certain now that any Provincial Champion will be a really good side and Roscommon will be no different. I'd be confident that we'll come through if we play to our potential

Forthright

Sam Oakes did his cruciate I think at the start of the year.

thinkstoomuch1

The Cork u21 side is a superbly drilled outfit,two great men in sean hayes and Gene o driscoll,father of Brian ,playing,and colm and kevin with seniors that play tommorrow.

Nigel dinneen,is there version of our John Cleary,ex forward of much distinction ,a selector with Roscommon that won the connaught champ in 2011,,then became manager,and has had success,u21 title in 1st year in 2012 and all ireland final ,and now this year.

A HAStings cup win may mean nothing to People down south.,but its a huge benfit to Them ,as they have continuity and hard,intense matches against different styles and its better than any training-and a loss to westmeath in that ,was great in that they regrouped.They beat Cavan who won a 4 in a row ulster,and a meath team ,then mayo in Conaught.

That hasting cup run they beat clare ,kildare ,and cavan and meath loosing to westmeath.They got 4 goals in 5 game and conceded 4,westmeath,clare ,kildare and meath all scoring .That hasting run give them competive games,week in week in week out,it helped form a cohesion to the team style,grow a spirit and create a journery that they all bought in to .They used a lot of players in the hasting cup,that arent even featuring tommorrow.They beat kildare in kildare,sligo away and mayo in mayo so they have mental strength and were underdogs v cavan and beat them in the hasting semi final.
A potent threat.Fear them ,no ,as you got to believe you can win,but Respect them ,yes without a doubt

They have a clear advantage over Cork in games,as we had challenges v ,kildare,clare ,dublin,galway ,intercounty teams etc,around 6 in total aprox yet they had just as many ,close to it in the hasting cup,then add in connaught also .

They can beat any style ,beat Sligos blanket defence ,and won a game they could of lost .Sign of a good team,always find a way to win .They got to the final u21 against Dublin 2012,dinneen ist year and had a valiant display against Jim Gavins Dublin,led by two with just 15 minutes to go against a Dublin team with Stars like Ciaran kilkenny,jack mccaffery ,Sean jorge ,and O conaile and o brien .
They beat cavan in the semifinal that year,a very good cavan team.

Last year,they pushed Galway all the way ,had lots of 2nd half wides and pushed a team that beat us to extra time .They are a serious side but have injurys ,in kelly a tailsmanic centre back ,on the 20120 panel,and Donie smith a starter and 4 points in 2012 final .
Minor champions in 2011 ,beaten by all ireland winners tippeary by just two points .

They got 9 goals in that minor run to an all ireland semi final ,and have around 10 of that minor team starting (injury allowed),lavin,murray(captain now )daly,mcmanus,kelly(if fit),cocoran,the two smiths,finn and healy etc.

In connaught They beat mayo and got 4 goals,and a goal against sligo ,5 goals in 3 games, didnt raise a green flag against leitrm but they can get goals .
They have conceded 3 in 3 games in connaught so there not soild at the back .In the 5 comptetive games in the hasting and ,3 in connaught,total 8 games they have
got 9 and conceded 7 goals.
There is goals for Cork .

My assement on them is based that there strongest 15 play ,and thats uncertain yet .
If they dont ,then thats a bonus to Cork .

David murray captain is meant to mark Cadogan ,but Cadogan is on fire at club and county and he will do well to mark him .In fact Cadogan is going to be marked,i wouldnt suprised to see mark sugrue swtich inside for a bit,has played there against kerry and for carbery also ,and would be a fine target man inside ,as ,murray ,mullolly and ,kenny are suspect under a high ball.Murray and Daly are attacking corner backs so its imperative ,corkery and sugrue or cadogan track them ,also .That could be good for us as they attack,we must turnover the ball at back ,and catch them on the counter .

The key is mix and match ,and thats whats Hayes and Gene ,ace of spades have been,they kept evolving our team,brought in fulgnatti,hanlon against tipp and limerick ,corkery was started with,o sullivan had two good games but was dropped.

There has been always something new with cork,and I expect cork to not let cadogan bdm ambushed .He played excellent last year at half forward .Playing him there ,is creativity for cork and he could go inside then for a bit.

Kelly is doubtful with a hamstring,what a perfect test for hes fitness,put cadogan out at half forward and ,run ,run run .Like that phrase"Run forrest ,Run".Cadogan is no forrest Gump though lets be clear in that.

He is an extremely intelligent footballer.He doesnt run in to cul de sacs.He usuallys run to create space.He has an insepid natural appreciation of the game the real,real ,i mean true Greats got to have .

He is,abrasive,has bottle,balls,i mean real real ball of steels,huger,a desire but Natural abiltity and hes unselfish,that he can and will create,and he is a real real big game player.Showed it against limerick in senior hurling,loves the big occasion .

1-14 from play in 3 games,5 in that Glourious win again kerry (to me sweeter than beating tippeary)1--4 against limerick and 5 against tipp,hes going to be watched.
Dont leave him inside ,so they can pick him off.He is suited to half forward,and if there best man marker wants him,then hes got to be taken out of hes comfort zone.

There is no Panic if Cads is held,once we benfit elsewhere ,and sugrue a goal and two against limerick and 3 play v kerry can score ,and goal against tipp in hurling and football last year showed hes clinical Excecution in ability ,but Most of all in the Mind.
He has the mindset,and the body to do what the mind wants .CADS can score from distance also ,and roscommon likey to play a sweeper like dublin did with hurley in full back line last week ,so you draw them out .Once cads turns and beats he man ,there has to be space for runners like ,kiely and o driscoll to bomb in to .

Corkery can still do what he did against tipp and play deep if he has to ,but he is. A lesser of the unkown ,,in the sense ,he can be a real threat for cork if he gets ball.Hes under the radar to an extent .

Dan the man,has 1-14 around also 3 games and while he didnt be proflic in scoring,won world ball against tipp and laid it off .
He was joint 4th top minor 2011 championship scorer 3-16,despite cork not getting to a semi or final.
3-16 in 4 games is pheonamal .
He got 5 points from play against tryone in minor in 2010,and is a big game player ,and it could be the story of two left feet,Dan the man or Donie smith swinging points for either team .

Hes strength,and abilty to win high ball will test that roscommon unit ,with sugrue ,also ,as we would like to make them suffer ,in the sense there weak with a high ball

Im not normally an advocate ,of kick it high,Gather Snow ,but if there weak under that type of ball then you test them.The mircalce Rubgy match,Munster v gloucester 2003,MUNSTER knew Henry Paul ,as blown up as he was ,hated high balls,and couldnt do what essential for a full back, command and be reliable under a high ball .Muster done that in the 1st ten mintutes ,and such blew hes confidence away .Paul was meant to do this and that etc, and blown up by English Media swansong when he became known after to this very day ,he could not do the basic Fundamental job of a 15 in Rubgy,catch high ball ,first and foremost.
You must never run before you can walk.

Cork must sent the shivers down that unit tommrrow.Send it in,if it doesnt work ,then you simply stop doing it .Of course they have correctly identified our unit as weak also .

Daly,and kelly and mcmanus are meant to be a savage unit at half back.Kelly is so good ,and talent for future ,if hes out,mcmanus even do he goes to the centre,there bound to be weaker .

Sean Kiely is a huge powerful player,pierse o neill style,howerver he is ,nimble and lovely feet ,he can side step at pace and is agile and nimble like a boxer .
He is a huge bonus to Cork in a midfield that at the very least,cork will break even .A big game player,against kerry last year that point ,time up,to Break there hearts,again against tipp,also he got a crucial goal.He has the temparment .Hes not the old sterotype ,Cork 2010,athlete brute force.
He is a Footballer true and true that happens to be a well toned ,conditioned athlete.He has a lovely toned body for a footballer .

Brian o driscoll likey to be the dooher role ,and hes key tommorrow.Its not the fitness he has,but that mental focus,concentration and commitment to do the hardst role in the game,auxillary wing forward half back that marks him out .Two great points the last day from play.

4th year at u21,he has leadership and expierence, he is really and truly a man in this level.Hes strong,and has abilty to split a defence with a 40 yard pass in the blink of an eye .Hes fresh,and thats been the only positve he got from hes injury .

Unlike our Seniors who must learn possesion is the name of the game ,we have key stakeholders here,who possess real properties in there make up ,that are rising in value every game.

Maguire is towering ,a huge huge presence.Again not as many like to paint cork lads as just a physical gym bunnies ,This lad ,has an understanding and intelligace,and has hands like a vice,but crucially he can move the ball at pace and isnt just a catch and hold type.
He is like Danny Cullothy ,or more like Shea fahy ,a towering player but hes got real real football.
He has handled mcauley ,in sigerson with the help of kiely ,and riordain and murphy ,he dominated against kerry .Mobilty he has ,and Crucially Relishes a battle .Again has a Want ,a Desire ,you want in the coal pit of Inter county midfield.

Thomas cocoran is good,but I have no fear of maguire, he has taken care of much much better .

And he isnt a one man show .Hanlon can win ball ,and has a real desire and hunger and was superb two games ,andflying it .
Kiely will help out and has to had Harney and enda smith are going to flood that aera .Cork at very least break even here .roscommon arent as strong in the middle third ,and Cork have murphy and kavanagh that can do a job if we go to at midfield.
Midfield is the winning of the game with half back line .

I would move Dorman to half back as we need hes physicality at halaf back as Enda smith and mark healy are two physical players.Yes we take that awawn from full back,howevever we close of the supply by building a wall of fotres at half back and midfield ,we will close of the supply in to our full back line.

Dorman strength,leadership is vital and with White and fulgnatti ,Cork should be formdiddable here and starve the full back forward line of Donie smith ,3-19 2011 minor championship run to the semi final,a big game player ,got 4 points ,against dubs a year later u21 final.., and Mark mcnally and Murtagh if they start.

That full forward line particulary ,smith and murtagh could cause damage to us .Its imperative we get the match up correct .We dont,we loose.That simple.

Cronin would be the man for smith,and then crowley for murtagh.Davis for mcnally.Davis has the physique for him.He breaks ball and creates ,more so and isnt as lethal as the other two .

Dorman would have the physique but he got roasted by a similar lad in quinvlan,and that unit has conceded 5 goals and should have been a lot more against tipp and kerry .And kildare not exactly a team thats renowened for goalscoring got 4 against Cork .The warning signs are there all year with the unit.

He isnt a 3.Crowley has to go back ,and if Davis goes to 3 to mark mcnally,crowley has the abily to stay close and cover him .Bod covering around or half back line should allow us limit the supply inside.
I trust and believe ,Sean and Gene can and will read the game accordingly .

We have the Midfield and half backs to get a foothold of possesion and in Sugrue,cadogan ,maceoin,kiely,corkery we have Scoring in us .4 goals and 51 points is some scoring but 3 of those against a woeful limerick team .Just one goal against tipp,0 against kerry is a worry .Its not a lack of talent,its we must be Clincally Execution with any goal chances tommorrow.

The longer there in the game the harder to beat them .
Roscommon have put huge work in to underage,and the all ireland minor when they beat kerry in ennis few years ago ,gave them a lift ,and all credit due ,there doing the foundations.3 connaught titles in 5 years ,a hasting cup this year ,it a huge game tommorrow .Extra time is a possibilty even .

To get 18 points in both games kerry and then again against tipp is great scoring points wise .We will need at least a goal tommorrow imo ,maybee two even ,as Roscommon are likely to get one .We got to hold them to just a goal.

It could be close but with the expierence of last year and other years of Dorman,driscoll,maguire,kiely,cadogan,sugrue and mac eoin with the exceptional new hunger of crowley,white ,and hanlon and corkery to this team I think ,Cork will win it ,it will be close though .
Our subs and Kavanagh,o sullivan,histon ,and Horgan all could have a vital part to play if called upon.

On the thursday night ,in Mallow in the week before the kerry game ,the far ptich,closest ptich on the left you go over the 2nd ramp,and through 2nd gates ,Oakes got injured.
I was there Gary .It was a freak,accident ,and no one to blame .
The forwards,indidvally had lined up and had a drill ,taking on defender one v one and to beat the goalie for a goal .For example Cadogan was up,then corkery etc.

Then Sam had hes turn ,and he just injured hes knee ,awkwardaly and he was down for a long while.It was so bad,two lads took him of the field .He would do very well to be back for bishoptown if at all for championship ,i would think.A very good player,part ucc panel and 7 goals club championship last year and. Made the Club team of the year .Unlikely to be a senior, so much talent thats ahead of him,however he is a huge loss to the team as it Vaughan .

It seems that story re waterford training is a bit overblown as Horse saidg.Now is a key time in teams prepartion ,as for example Laois hurlers with Ger Cunningham are training for a full day in ul tommorrow .Laois are a div 2 team but no stone is left unturned in there prepartion.I expect nothing less with a top top coach like Ger cunnigham and he being with ul helps laois .

Syferus

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Thomas cocoran is good,but I have no fear of maguire, he has taken care of much much better.

Quoted for tomorrow evening.

All the best.

thinkstoomuch1

Absoultey ,do that,i have no problem laying my cards on the table befor a match,i dont like to sit on the fence.

If maguire is dominated by Corcocran I will ,be the ist to say it .Id love to hear roscommon views why Cocoran is that good,and better than mcculey ,an all sar,Colm O Riordain for instance .
As I said he he is hardly better to those is he .??? And maguire has held hes own against them .If he is ye have one great talent and credit due .Id like to know games that he stood out ,please .Thanks.
A one line statement ,im sorry now but that doesnt reveal much .