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Season 4 Episode 1 "Two Swords" : HAVE read the books

Kunkka

Well the wait is nearly over. Really looking forward to seeing how the Red Viper is portrayed among other things. From what I've read about the first episode on a few sites it sounds brilliant. There is obviously going to be more changes from the books to suit the show like how Jaime is in KL's too early. Can't wait!

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Michael D Not Higgins

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Tower of Joy vision.

How class would that be?

It would have to be careful on what information was given away in any visions. We want exposition but don't want to ruin or telegraph any reveals.

The battle between Rhaegar and Robert would be a good one.

[Deleted User]

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Tower of Joy vision.

How class would that be?

+1000 hadn't even thought of that I'd nearly be more excited to see arther dayne than ned back

A Neurotic

I was surprised when Oberyn clearly stated that Rhaegar left Elia for another woman. I know that R/L was hinted at heavily throughout the books but was it ever stated so bluntly?

Michael D Not Higgins

A Neurotic wrote: »

I was surprised when Oberyn clearly stated that Rhaegar left Elia for another woman. I know that R/L was hinted at heavily throughout the books but was it ever stated so bluntly?

That was the entire reason for Robert's rebellion I thought. Well maybe not entire (Mad King etc.)

A Neurotic

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

That was the entire reason for Robert's rebellion I thought. Well maybe not entire (Mad Kind etc.)

As far as I can recall (and I'm by no means an expert, having only read through once) it's often stated that he abducted her but never explicitly that he looooooved her. Maybe I'm way off.

Michael D Not Higgins

A Neurotic wrote: »

As far as I can recall (and I'm by no means an expert, having only read through once) it's often stated that he abducted her but never explicitly that he looooooved her. Maybe I'm way off.

Just reading up on it, Barristan Selmy says to Dany:
"Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna and thousands died for it."

username123

A Neurotic wrote: »

I was surprised when Oberyn clearly stated that Rhaegar left Elia for another woman. I know that R/L was hinted at heavily throughout the books but was it ever stated so bluntly?

I think because he was a married man and she was still a "maid" (nudge nudge), that it was frowned upon by her family and Robert preferred to see it as her being held against her will.

Mr Freeze

username123 wrote: »

I think because he was a married man and she was still a "maid" (nudge nudge), that it was frowned upon by her family and Robert preferred to see it as her being held against her will.

I'd say even it Robert knew she went willingly, by the end I'd say he believed his own version of events, that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her.

Greyjoy

A decent starter for the new season with the scene of Arya & the Hound at the inn being the highlight. The introduction of Oberyn, while an interesting character in himself, felt like a very cliched GoT scene "how do we hold people's attention while we introduce this new character? - boobs!". It felt really gratuitous and added nothing to the story, unlike the scene where he confronts the lannister soldiers which was a much better display of his character and his back story.

I too was disappointed in how they're portraying Shae as a spurned lover. It makes her look like a jealous teenage girl and undoes the character development from the previous season. She already knows that there's no romantic connection between Tyrion & Sansa having made the bed after their wedding night. Unfortunately her story in the book is too ambiguous for the tv series - we never learn her true motivations.

I think the changes in the tv adaptation have been for the better mostly. If nothing else the tv series displays how badly GRRM needed a good editor to trim away the fat of the story and reduce the huge cast of characters. But there have been a few missteps and Shae's story seems to be one of them.

Michael D Not Higgins

Mr Freeze wrote: »

I'd say even it Robert knew she went willingly, by the end I'd say he believed his own version of events, that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her.

Exactly, it was war propaganda.

Mr Freeze

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Exactly, it was war propaganda.

Ya, and the more we hear about the Targaryen's, specifically Rhaegar, they didn't sound that bad.

Rhaegar was supposedly planning to remove Aerys, he told Jamie, that when things would be different when he got back from the battle of the Trident (or was he going to the Harrenhal tourney at the this point?).

Rhaegar sounded good anyways. Not the monster Robert would have us believe.

Michael D Not Higgins

Greyjoy wrote: »

If nothing else the tv series displays how badly GRRM needed a good editor to trim away the fat of the story and reduce the huge cast of characters.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. A book can go into far more detail and explore more stories easier than a TV series can. The wealth of characters gives a richer story and a sense of huge scale.

I'm currently reading the Night's Dawn trilogy which is a space opera and it too has a cast of characters for reference in the back. This is necessary to show scale and multiple plotlines.

Edit: Oh and of course, if we didn't have a huge cast of characters, how could he kill so many of them off?

Michael D Not Higgins

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, and the more we hear about the Targaryen's, specifically Rhaegar, they didn't sound that bad.

Rhaegar was supposedly planning to remove Aerys, he told Jamie, that when things would be different when he got back from the battle of the Trident (or was he going to the Harrenhal tourney at the this point?).

Rhaegar sounded good anyways. Not the monster Robert would have us believe.

The problem with the Targaryens is how it was described that the gods flip a coin when they're born and it can land either on greatness or madness. (not that it's worked out any better since then)

Witcher

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, and the more we hear about the Targaryen's, specifically Rhaegar, they didn't sound that bad.

Rhaegar was supposedly planning to remove Aerys, he told Jamie, that when things would be different when he got back from the battle of the Trident (or was he going to the Harrenhal tourney at the this point?).

Rhaegar sounded good anyways. Not the monster Robert would have us believe.

Yeah but he was a fcuking idiot...he alienated two of the kingdom's great houses and his father alienated a third. That's not how to run a kingdom.

Targaryens got what they deserved in all honesty.

Daith

Blay wrote: »

Yeah but he was a fcuking idiot...he alienated two of the kingdom's great houses and his father alienated a third. That's not how to run a kingdom.

Targaryens got what they deserved in all honesty.

Sounds like the Starks aswell!

Witcher

Daith wrote: »

Sounds like the Starks aswell!

Alienating 3 Great Houses for absolutely no reason?

Greyjoy

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily agree. A book can go into far more detail and explore more stories easier than a TV series can. The wealth of characters gives a richer story and a sense of huge scale.

The books will always give more detail and have a richer story but the sense of scale is still conveyed in the tv series without some of the redundant characters who don't progress the story in any meaningful way. As the books progressed it felt like GRRM was introducing POV chapters for more & more pointless minor characters and just padding out the story.

Daith

Blay wrote: »

Alienating 3 Great Houses for absolutely no reason?

No, them being fcking idiots :P

Though Robb did alienate houses for a woman too...(mightn't be great houses but def important)

TheDoctor

Purple wedding in the second episode of the series!!

Internets going to go into meltdown again

fatalll

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

Michael D Not Higgins

Greyjoy wrote: »

The books will always give more detail and have a richer story but the sense of scale is still conveyed in the tv series without some of the redundant characters who don't progress the story in any meaningful way. As the books progressed it felt like GRRM was introducing POV chapters for more & more pointless minor characters and just padding out the story.

Well it's only really in ADWD that we have more minor POV characters and some for good reason, like progressing the storyline in some parts where no major characters are there or for the unique viewpoint.

There is definitely some padding out in the story. The fact that Dany sat around Slaver's Bay for so long is clearly to allow events to unfold in Westeros before her return, but while her story is stretched it's somewhat necessary to have the satisfactory climax for the series.

username123

fatalll wrote: »

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

This thread is for people who HAVE read the books?

Michael D Not Higgins

fatalll wrote: »

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

This is the HAVE read the books thread. Go to the HAVEN'T read the books thread.

Kunkka

fatalll wrote: »

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

Learn to read the thread title. That is why we have two...

fatalll

Apologies...its kinda misleading though...
it should really say season 4...(Episode one makes it a bit misleading)

username123

fatalll wrote: »

Apologies...its kinda misleading though...
it should really say season 4...(Episode one makes it a bit misleading)

Eh, it says "Season 4 Episode 1 "Two Swords" : HAVE read the books"

Kunkka

Where is Picard when we need him?

chickenboy

fatalll wrote: »

Apologies...its kinda misleading though...
it should really say season 4...(Episode one makes it a bit misleading)

Confused Joffrey will have to do....

Mr Freeze

So did that guy just spoil The Purple Wedding for himself? How much did he read I wonder.

I really hope he has unfollowed the thread, cause I might post some major spoilers now.

Tom.D.BJJ

The part which brought me most joy from the episode is when Joffrey is reading the white book on the Arthur Dayne page. If you pause you can read the previous page. Obviously about Gerold Hightower......and the Tower of Joy.

Dispatched by King Aerys to locate the crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen in the wake of Robert Baratheon's rebellion.
Died in the Red Mountains of Dorne alongside his sworn brothers, Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Oswell Whent. After refusing to bow a knee to the new King, Robert Baratheon, all three were defeated by a small force led by Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell

:):):)