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Roads moan

Dannyboy83

[moan]
Does anyone know when the Council will finish screwing up the city?

Sullivan's quay is down to one lane now I saw at the weekend.
Pope's quay has traffic queues at 6.30am due to the lane 'improvements'!
You cannot park outside Abrakebabra on Patrick's St for collections anymore - parking spaces are now a taxi rank.

The worst is Washington street tho - it's been a building site for about 3 months now, with only 1 lane. The Traffic lights at the junction of Woods street and Washington street have been broken for months. I've seen several near car crashes there.
The left turning lane at the junction of Washington street and Donovan road has been closed for weeks due to some type of foothpath repairs - which don't seem to be happening. This is forcing all traffic into one lane.

I'm fed up with it.

First world problems maybe, but I'm doing my best to avoid Cork City for anything these days, the City Council don't seem to factor car users into their plans at all - despite car users making up 90% of the commuting population according to the data:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2013/0215/ireland/plan-to-beef-up-access-to-cityaposs-train-station-222761.html
"Cork City has relatively low public transport usage — just 8% of commuters in the city and the suburbs using public transport, compared to 21% in Dublin," Mr Kelly said.

"Cork also has a relatively low cycling share with just 2% of commuters using bikes to get to and from school and work.

The bit that makes me laugh is I haven't seen any cyclists using the bike lanes on Washington street!

Once I can change my gym membership out of the city, I won't need to care any more.

[/moan]

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evilivor

Going Strong wrote: »

There's that red Range Rover as well that's often parked on the pedestrianised part of Cook Street as well. Presumably belonging to the owner of one of the premises there.

Yes. Know it well.

kcb

Going Strong wrote: »

There's that red Range Rover as well that's often parked on the pedestrianised part of Cook Street as well. Presumably belonging to the owner of one of the premises there.

While the rest of us drive around diligently looking for a legal place to park, paying our ParkMagic etc.

Unreal brazeness from the driver and unreal lack of attention from the traffic wardens.

Dannyboy83

evilivor wrote: »

Most cycle lanes are too dangerous due to bad design - starting and stopping randomly - full of drains, litter, leaves and other detritus. That, combined with lack of maintenance is why the law was changed, removing the requirement of cyclists to use them.

What they are doing in the city centre is creating a new cycling infrastructure designed for the new City bike rental scheme. The nature of these schemes is to encourage non-cyclists or tourists to try them so they are creating these newer, safer lanes separated from traffic by a kerb as the riders, naturally, won't have helmets etc - not that they should need them.

As long as they can be policed they will be great but from what I saw the other evening most motorists seem to think these lanes are just new free-parking areas.

I've been paying attention since you wrote this and I can only conclude you're quite correct.

On 3 seperate occasions, I've seen taxi men flying down the 'bike lane' to skip traffic on Washington street.

But yesterday evening, a cyclist was nearly killed as a result of this deadly behaviour. Bad enough the taxi man didn't see the cyclist, but the speed he was doing was daft, even for an empty street.

Either they'll fix that footpath finally and open up the second lane of traffic, or it won't be long until some cyclist actually is killed.

kub

evilivor wrote: »

What they are doing in the city centre is creating a new cycling infrastructure designed for the new City bike rental scheme. The nature of these schemes is to encourage non-cyclists or tourists to try them so they are creating these newer, safer lanes separated from traffic by a kerb as the riders, naturally, won't have helmets etc - not that they should need them.

As long as they can be policed they will be great but from what I saw the other evening most motorists seem to think these lanes are just new free-parking areas.

I suppose so the City Council are going to change typical Irish weather as well to encourage cycling, are they?

j8wk2feszrnpao

kub wrote: »

I suppose so the City Council are going to change typical Irish weather as well to encourage cycling, are they?

Not just that, but the city seems a bit small to have the scheme.
I hope it works out, I'm just not sure that it's worth the investment.

I've used the London and Paris ones, and they were good value, but only because we did quite a bit of travelling on them.

Red Nissan

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Either they'll fix that footpath finally and open up the second lane of traffic, or it won't be long until some cyclist actually is killed.

My personal predication is one hundred dead cyclists city wide in two years.

Mark and note.

MrFrisp

Dannyboy83 wrote: »

Either they'll fix that footpath finally and open up the second lane of traffic, or it won't be long until some cyclist actually is killed.

The latter..

No way will they go back to the way it was..No matter what life is in danger, or what it does to traffic congestion they won't care.

Already a number of cars have been damaged by the new layout, and all the Council say is "give it time".

They think they are right by doing it this way, and that's the way it's going to stay.

In my opinion, they have "fixed" something that was not "broke".
.

deRanged

The contra-flow cycle lane on Washington St. needs more warning signs. it brings cyclists past drivers who are turning right, but watching left for traffic - they won't see cyclists coming from the right.

I wonder will they extend the 30km/h zone out?

evilivor

deRanged wrote: »

The contra-flow cycle lane on Washington St. needs more warning signs. it brings cyclists past drivers who are turning right, but watching left for traffic - they won't see cyclists coming from the right.

I wonder will they extend the 30km/h zone out?

I wonder will they enforce the existing 30km/h zone?

Milly33

Ims till sorry to the cyclist I splashed, I think ive seen him twice since but he looks very very not in good mood. Anywho, back to it not a roads moan but cyclist please use the roads properly and motorbike user's. Annoyed today driving into douglas and first cyclist I passed was tops in his lane and made sure to watch out for him when the cyclist lane ends to give him loads of room. So them stopped at the first lights and up comes a motor bike on the inside of the next lane over grand skipping the q while she could (q of two cars that was). Then she skipped infront of me fine, then at the next lights. She done the same thing took over on the wrong side of her lane and skipped into the junction box in front of the one car that was in front of her, and stopped up there. Your not suppose to stop in these boxes for a reason so to go out of the way tuttut, bad form. Then Mr lovely cyclist was in his proper lane after stopping at the lights waiting like us all and this lady with a high vis vest comes up behind him, stops then gets bored and cycles on through the red lights and then crosses over two lanes as she was in the wrong one to start with and again skips ahead to turn off left but ahead of the line so was in the wrong lane again.. Just shame on ye shame...I wish I had had some pie to throw out the window at ye

Red Nissan

Milly33 wrote: »

Ims till sorry to the cyclist I splashed, .....

Now, this ladies and gentlemen, is how to moan.

Milly33

why thank you

kooga

DEnnehys Cross Junction

driving from victoria x to dennehys x what have the done to the light sequence letting cars turn right onto model farm road. the traffic is backed all the way down to blackwater motors service garage all this week!

rob316

As car owners we are getting a raw deal to say the least.
We buy cars, which contribute to jobs which keep people off social welfare. We pay VRT, car tax and extortionate taxes at the pumps yet we are shafted for cyclists, who contribute nothing to the exchequer/ economy, nothing absolutely diddly squat.:mad:

I mean do the city engineers/planners actually think this stuff through or does it just look good on paper and they just go with it, they should get in a car and drive around the circus they have turned Washington st into.

j8wk2feszrnpao

rob316 wrote: »

As car owners we are getting a raw deal to say the least.
We buy cars, which contribute to jobs which keep people off social welfare. We pay VRT, car tax and extortionate taxes at the pumps yet we are shafted for cyclists, who contribute nothing to the exchequer/ economy, nothing absolutely diddly squat.:mad:

Not all cyclists just have a bicycle

I have both a car and a bicycle.
So when you do see a cyclist, don't just conclude that they don't contribute (and they may be contributing via their payslip tax).

Plus, it's probably more likely that the cyclist will be fitter and more healthy than the person puffing on a fag or munching into a breakfast roll while driving their car

, possibly resulting in less tax money spent on their heath-care down the line.

I just don't see the value in a lot of the cycle lanes been proposed.
There isn't the cycling population to support it, and I don't believe that it'll increase that population to justify the spend (we don't have the reliable weather to encourage a significant number of people).

Anyway, it's not really a car driver V's cyclist debate.
It's about the poor job been done by those in City Hall who manage the roads in the city.

rob316

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not all cyclists just have a bicycle
I have both a car and a bicycle.
So when you do see a cyclist, don't just conclude that they don't contribute (and they may be contributing via their payslip tax).

Plus, it's probably more likely that the cyclist will be fitter and more healthy than the person puffing on a fag or munching into a breakfast roll while driving their car , possibly resulting in less tax money spent on their heath-care down the line.

I just don't see the value in a lot of the cycle lanes been proposed.
There isn't the cycling population to support it, and I don't believe that it'll increase that population to justify the spend (we don't have the reliable weather to encourage a significant number of people).

Anyway, it's not really a car driver V's cyclist debate.
It's about the poor job been done by those in City Hall who manage the roads in the city.

Hey

Good post, a lot of points I wanted to get across but Im in the mood for a rant more

You hit the nail on the head there, there just isn't the cycle population to support such radical changes to the city roads. That is my issue, I see very little cyclists and loads of cars on the roads and I feel the motorist is been shafted.

Dannyboy83

rob316 wrote: »

As car owners we are getting a raw deal to say the least.
We buy cars, which contribute to jobs which keep people off social welfare. We pay VRT, car tax and extortionate taxes at the pumps yet we are shafted for cyclists, who contribute nothing to the exchequer/ economy, nothing absolutely diddly squat.:mad:

Cork in particular is getting a raw deal compared to the rest of the local authorities.

Cork motorists ‘subsidising’ repairs elsewhere
Friday, March 28, 2014

A Fine Gael TD says “a gross injustice has been perpetuated by successive governments” on motorists in Cork who are subsidising road repairs in other counties while they watch their own crumble.

Jim Daly is in discussions with the Department of Environment to provide what he claims will be a better road maintenance service to Cork motorists after they coughed up €130m in road tax last year, 12.25% of the national take.

Yet when it came to payback from the Government for road maintenance, Cork received just 8.4% of national funding — meaning it is subsidising other counties, according to Mr Daly.

Cork County Council : €2.9m local government funding is ‘peanuts’

Cork City Hall: No funding to fix roads

I mean do the city engineers/planners actually think this stuff through or does it just look good on paper and they just go with it, they should get in a car and drive around the circus they have turned Washington st into.

I don't understand the planning or implementation process, so I can't really say why it's wrong or how they can improve it.

I am very surprised that they can so easily overrule the police and Health&Safety objections. The retailers around the city are also quite pissed off.

evilivor

rob316 wrote: »

Hey

Good post, a lot of points I wanted to get across but Im in the mood for a rant more

You hit the nail on the head there, there just isn't the cycle population to support such radical changes to the city roads. That is my issue, I see very little cyclists and loads of cars on the roads and I feel the motorist is been shafted.

Which is why they are building an infrastructure to encourage more people to cycle. In every other city where cycling safety has been prioritised - cycling participation has increased.

rob316

evilivor wrote: »

Which is why they are building an infrastructure to encourage more people to cycle. In every other city where cycling safety has been prioritised - cycling participation has increased.

We talking Irish or other European cities?

Its been pointed out we don't have the weather or that bike riding culture.
The roads are in **** around the place and we are spending money on cycle lanes and widening footpaths, how couldn't you see something wrong with that?

j8wk2feszrnpao

evilivor wrote: »

Which is why they are building an infrastructure to encourage more people to cycle. In every other city where cycling safety has been prioritised - cycling participation has increased.

I don't think anyone will argue that cycling participation wouldn't increase.
But this Island gets that Atlantic weather first up, I don't believe that we'll see people abandon cars/buses to hop on their bike and get soaked.

Despite the benefits of having a motor bike (easier parking, get through traffic quicker), risking a downpour is just one of the reasons why we don't see a higher uptake.
I have a friend that has a car and motor bike and he checks the weather before deciding which to take to work. It's been a while since he could trust the weather

I'm open to being convinced on this.
What is the current cycling participation in the city, and what is the expected increase?
If there is currently 100 cyclists and that would jump to 200, then I don't believe that is value for money (not for the millions been spent). But if it was to jump from 100 to 1000, then we would be seeing a viable change.

Isn't Cork a bit small for the bike rental scheme?
I'm only basing it off my experience in Paris and recently London, where I was travelling maybe 2-4 miles at a time, and found it very useful.
Is there a similar city that we can compare Cork to in terms of population/size/roads/weather/climate?

bladebrew

Munstermagic has a good point, the less cars clogging up the roads the better, it is better for everyone, but I can't see people who currently drive into the city suddenly leave the car at home, I had a moped years ago to get to work and sold it to buy a car after getting soaked one too many times! It was just miserable some days,

Red Nissan

munstermagic11 wrote: »

I'm open to being convinced on this.
What is the current cycling participation in the city, and what is the expected increase?

In the Mahon Development thread the NRA expect to reduce Mahon Point Traffic by 50% by encouraging cyclists. So there is NO REQUIREMENT for new roads or bridges.

j8wk2feszrnpao

Red Nissan wrote: »

In the Mahon Development thread the NRA expect to reduce Mahon Point Traffic by 50% by encouraging cyclists. So there is NO REQUIREMENT for new roads or bridges.

Wow. That's some expectation.
First thought, the odds of getting a 50% reduction is slim to none.
Second thought, where can I get whatever drugs those in the NRA are on

My wife works in Mahon, and a large number of people who work with her are using the tunnel on a daily basis. So they won't be using bikes via the tunnel.
Going in via the city is a non runner.

Plus, judging by the traffic that travels from Mahon via the tunnel towards East Cork, they won't be taking a bike journey and risking a heavy downpour.

Milly33

it would be great to see more cycle lanes and it done properly in Cork like the park and ride bikes. Think if your a cyclist the weather is just the weather you are prepared for it. But I do not trust Cork City Council bunch of muppets they be. Sure look at that fantastic layout they put on the well road, fab loverly but sure cars are parked in the cycle lane by the Silver Quay for most of the time. Then the cycle lane ends on one side continues in the other. Just waiting for an accident by the lane lets say coming from Supervalue as you turn down the well road..

Dannyboy83

Red Nissan wrote: »

In the Mahon Development thread the NRA expect to reduce Mahon Point Traffic by 50% by encouraging cyclists. So there is NO REQUIREMENT for new roads or bridges.

I can't realistically see this happening unless 50% of employers install shower facilities.

TINA1984

rob316 wrote: »

As car owners we are getting a raw deal to say the least.
We buy cars, which contribute to jobs which keep people off social welfare.

Yes us car owners do a great job of keeping people off Social Welfare in places like Sunderland, France, Germany & The Czech Republic.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

But this Island gets that Atlantic weather first up, I don't believe that we'll see people abandon cars/buses to hop on their bike and get soaked.

To be fair, Amsterdam is probably Europe's premier cycling city, and they get as much bad weather as we do.

rob316

TINA1984 wrote: »

Yes us car owners do a great job of keeping people off Social Welfare in places like Sunderland, France, Germany & The Czech Republic.

To be fair, Amsterdam is probably Europe's premier cycling city, and they get as much bad weather as we do.

What are you talking about?

j8wk2feszrnpao

TINA1984 wrote: »

To be fair, Amsterdam is probably Europe's premier cycling city, and they get as much bad weather as we do.

Not from the data I've found.
We get more rain and more rainy days.

TINA1984

rob316 wrote: »

What are you talking about?

I spell it out for you? You said this:

We buy cars, which contribute to jobs which keep people off social welfare

You realise cars are made in places like the UK, France etc. not Ireland, so beyond a small cabal of motor retailers, you're not really keeping many 'people off social welfare'.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Not from the data I've found.
We get more rain and more rainy days.

Now show us the average rainfall for a bike-friendly city like London!

j8wk2feszrnpao

TINA1984 wrote: »

Now show us the average rainfall for a bike-friendly city like London!

Ok. Again, they have less rain and less days of rain.
Can you show me some data to backup your statement "they get as much bad weather as we do"?
A friend of mine went to colleague in Cork, and has been working in London for a few years, and he's always said it rains less in London than in Cork.