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RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

slegs

RTE CFO speaking at Seanad committee announces that RTE will launch a Saorsat service with spot beam on Ireland of FTA PSB channels from Q2 2011. Presume Astra 28.2 but he didnt say.

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Qprmeath

Have a Finlux Sao 634 box. Its only giving me the Irish stations. Have a saorview telly and its giving me English and Irish stations so the aerial is doing its job. Anyone know why the box is not giving me uk stations in my house? It was previously in my mothers house where it worked fine.

zg3409

Qprmeath wrote: »

Have a Finlux Sao 634 box. Its only giving me the Irish stations. Have a saorview telly and its giving me English and Irish stations so the aerial is doing its job. Anyone know why the box is not giving me uk stations in my house? It was previously in my mothers house where it worked fine.

You are on the wrong thread. Start a new thread stating your location and your mothers location and the make and model of TV you have and someone will try help.

CDTV

can you get saorsat in surry south england ?

watty

no. Too much interference from French spot no matter how ginormous the dish is.

Copyerselveson

That's intentional interference on the part of 2RN (formerly RTE NL) - it wouldn't do for the Irish in the UK to legally pick up Irish TV transmissions. There are other options but can't be discussed on this board.

CDTV

thought as much....

thanks

MarkK

Copyerselveson wrote: »

That's intentional interference on the part of 2RN (formerly RTE NL) - it wouldn't do for the Irish in the UK to legally pick up Irish TV transmissions. There are other options but can't be discussed on this board.

So 2RN is secretly running Tooway France http://www.tooway.fr/ in order to block Saorsat reception?

Do tell us more of your conspiracy theory :eek:

Elmo

Copyerselveson wrote: »

That's intentional interference on the part of 2RN (formerly RTE NL) - it wouldn't do for the Irish in the UK to legally pick up Irish TV transmissions. There are other options but can't be discussed on this board.

The EU's TVWF and AVWF directive states that no EU government can prevent TV channels transmitting into their territory from other EU nations as long as that broadcast has a licence for an EU jurisdiction.

This works in two ways

1. To avoid regulation in their native countries e.g. ViaSat is largely regulated via OfCom but aimed at Scandinavian audiences.
2. Large countries channels broadcasting into smaller countries with the same language (e.g. UK broadcasters into Ireland and German Broadcasters into Austria).

However AVWF fails when a smaller country wants to broadcast into a large country due to Rights issues. Generally the smaller countries native channels will import from the large country and don't have the rights to transmit those programmes to that country. (along with sporting rights and film rights).

zg3409

CDTV wrote: »

can you get saorsat in surry south england ?

No. I tested it myself near london and it will not work.

Regarding intensional interference from speaking to people in "the know" 2RN are not paying for intensional interference but the satellite broadcaster may be "accidentally" broadcasting blank carriers in order to prove how tight and reliable this narrow broadcast can be. They could easily use the same frequencies for internet services, thus having the same effect.

From what I gather 2RN would normally have to pay extra if they wanted "extra" blank broadcasts, which they are not doing. These blank broadcasts may stop at any moment, but I cannot test them regularly as you would need to be in east Scotland or South East England to check they are still there.

From what I gathered at least at the start 2RN were not aware of the jamming signals even though on the ground tests were performed at the extremes by non 2RN intermediaries to check performance and recommended dish sizes. Indeed the power levels varied during these tests a few years back.

Regarding the legality of all this I suspect if they happened to accidentally jam while providing internet or TV in other regions this would not be illegal, much the same as some Irish TV broadcasts block some terrestrial TV broadcasts from the UK in border areas.

Having said all that RTE "accidentally" jammed some Dublin pirate radio stations in the past which was definitely illegal, as they had no licence for the broadcasts.

watty

Copyerselveson wrote: »

That's intentional interference on the part of 2RN (formerly RTE NL) - it wouldn't do for the Irish in the UK to legally pick up Irish TV transmissions. There are other options but can't be discussed on this board.

Nonsense.

It's a very expensive satellite designed from the beginning to reuse each frequency band about 20 times. Many of the 82 spots are well under capacity as they don't have the customers.

Read up on Frequency Reuse.

The Television without Frontiers and "Jamming" doesn't apply in this scenario.

Even if there was only a SINGLE spot the dish size would be like 2m or more for reliable South East UK reception. It's Ka Band. the spots for same size dish on Satellite are INHERENTLY much smaller than Ku band. That's WHY they can reuse each band TWENTY times over Europe!

You might as well complain you can't pick your favourite LW station in Gibraltar because of the Algerians.

Most written end 2010 before satellite launched:
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat-coverage
(sorry if site is slow)

Less technical
http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/

If this service wasn't inherently limited then Ireland couldn't use it at all. The only other option is Encryption which is up to THREE or FOUR times the cost of Saorsat solution in use today!

Copyerselveson

So if my claim is nonsense what are the adjacent spots on the Scottish and French beams used for and who pays for them?

Ronnie Raygun

Copyerselveson wrote: »

what are the adjacent spots on the Scottish and French beams used for and who pays for them?

It doesn't matter. As was already mentioned, if overspill couldn't be controlled, Saorsat wouldn't exist.

The Cush

Copyerselveson wrote: »

So if my claim is nonsense what are the adjacent spots on the Scottish and French beams used for and who pays for them?

I would assume they are being used and paid for by Tooway broadband subscribers in the UK and France

http://sat.tooway.co.uk/
http://www.tooway.fr/

Copyerselveson

With the "lucky" effect that the Saorsat beam is completely blocked in Scotland and England. I would agree with Ronnie Raygun's view that overspill would need to be controlled for Saorsat to exist.

radiowaves

Copyerselveson wrote: »

With the "lucky" effect that the Saorsat beam is completely blocked in Scotland and England. I would agree with Ronnie Raygun's view that overspill would need to be controlled for Saorsat to exist.

I'm really not sure why you have such difficulty understanding basics. Ronnie Raygun didn't express a viewpoint, he stated a fact. Irish TV channels do not have the rights to broadcast copyrighted material beyond this island.

Copyerselveson

radiowaves wrote: »

I'm really not sure why you have such difficulty understanding basics. Ronnie Raygun didn't express a viewpoint, he stated a fact. Irish TV channels do not have the rights to broadcast copyrighted material beyond this island.

Sorry but I actually know a lot more than "basics" about radio propagation and about the rights issues that RTE etc have regarding Saorsat so no need to get insulting thanks.

radiowaves

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Sorry but I actually know a lot more than "basics" about radio propagation and about the rights issues that RTE etc have regarding Saorsat so no need to get insulting thanks.

Where did I insult you thanks?

Copyerselveson

radiowaves wrote: »

Where did I insult you thanks?

Wink away.

So lets look at how 2RN manage to ensure that even 2m plus dishes outside the Irish footprint don't get a whiff of that Irish only signal.

Watty is as usual correct about the tighter footprints of Ka-Sat's spots but to be doubly sure that no signal escapes there has to be signals on the same frequency in the adjacent northern France and Scottish spots. Now Ka-Sat is not full and theory Tooway *could* have used other frequencies but luckily or otherwise for 2RN Tooway are using the same frequencies as Saorsat and Voila! No Saorsat signal outside the Irish footprint - in my humble opinion of course.

So there must be some sort of frequency co-ordination between 2RN and Ka-Sat to ensure that Saorsat stays within the Irish footprint. Maybe Ronnie Raygun or Radiowaves might or might not know any more about this.

I am reminded of the famous UHF link on the old RTE Museum building in Rathmines. Not sure of its real purpose but it did also happen to jam Radio Nova's UHF link to Nova Park from their Herbert Street studios.

John896

If that was the case that 2RN manage to ensure that even 2m plus dishes,outside the Irish footprint don't get a whiff of that Irish only signal.Then could you please tell me how am i, getting Saorsat on a 2.4m and 1.2m channel master satellite dish.Here in Swansea,South Wales.

Copyerselveson

John896 wrote: »

If that was the case that 2RN manage to ensure that even 2m plus dishes,outside the Irish footprint don't get a whiff of that Irish only signal.Then could you please tell me how am i, getting Saorsat on a 2.4m and 1.2m channel master satellite dish.Here in Swansea,South Wales.

You get them because you are outside of the French footprint. I suspect you would not get Saorsat much further east than Swansea. The footprints aren't a pure circle and as such Saorsat reception roughly corresponds to the extent of historic off air reception of RTE etc.

John896

One of my friends who lives in Cardiff can get Saorsat on a 1.8m Satellite dish.

Copyerselveson

John896 wrote: »

One of my friends who lives in Cardiff can get Saorsat on a 1.8m Satellite dish.

That's good, but that proves Watty's point about the tightness of the spots. To get a working signal in London for instance you would need an ever larger dish, say 2.5 m. However by the time you get to London the Northern France spot on the same frequency as Saorsat effectively blots it out.

I don't know the exact size of the French footprint but Cardiff must be the furthest east that the Saorsat signal can travel before the French spot blocks it. If there was no signal at all on the French spot it would be technically possible (but not that practical) to receive Saorsat and that would give 2RN and RTE kittens I would think.

Peter Rhea

Copyerselveson wrote: »

Now Ka-Sat is not full and theory Tooway *could* have used other frequencies but luckily or otherwise for 2RN Tooway are using the same frequencies as Saorsat and Voila! No Saorsat signal outside the Irish footprint - in my humble opinion of course.

Do you actually know what is or isn't on Ka-Sat? Never mind your theories or opinions.

MiCr0

Stop bickering/personal comments - any more and i'm banning people for a month.
Discuss the topic ONLY

dmcdream

Hi folks,

Sorry to be here asking a Saorview question, as opposed to Saorsat question, but unfortunately I never received a reply in the dedicated Saorview forum.

I live in south Belfast, and since switchover have been receiving Saorview from Clermont Carn with no problems.

Unfortunately, since the launch of RTE 1 HD and RTE1 +1, I have begun encountering issues with momentary "freezing" of the picture. Luckily I'm still receiving RTE1's SD output on another channel, and it's coming through fine, along with the rest of the Saorview service.

I am using a Walker WP12DTB-R Receiver, connected to a 12 year old vertically polarised ‘Group C/D’ aerial erected on the roof of my family home, complete with mast-head amplifier.

Could anyone shed some light on what the problem might be? I'd be grateful for any advice anyone has.

Many Thanks!

Peter Rhea

The 'Television' forum is for discussion of TV programmes, not reception.

Saorview reception & technical issues are discussed in the Terrestrial section of Cable & Digital TV.

RTE1 HD is carried on the 2nd Saorview multiplex (mux 2), in a different 8 mHz UHF channel to mux 1 &, your reception of this channel must not be as good as the original mux 1 channel, which itself is more than likely borderline.

mickdw

Massive thread so hard to find info in it.
Im just wondering what size dish I would need for saorsat in north west mayo. Also, Ive fitted many a sky dish and have no issues aligning them.
Are the soarsat dishes difficult to align, Do the receivers have a sat meter similar to sky boxes?

Gerry Wicklow

mickdw wrote: »

Massive thread so hard to find info in it.
Im just wondering what size dish I would need for saorsat in north west mayo. Also, Ive fitted many a sky dish and have no issues aligning them.
Are the soarsat dishes difficult to align, Do the receivers have a sat meter similar to sky boxes?

Not sure about size but the bigger the better. There is another satellite at the same 9° position which you could use to align onto first before switching to the Ka band LNB

zg3409

mickdw wrote: »

Massive thread so hard to find info in it.
Im just wondering what size dish I would need for saorsat in north west mayo. Also, Ive fitted many a sky dish and have no issues aligning them.
Are the soarsat dishes difficult to align, Do the receivers have a sat meter similar to sky boxes?

All of Mayo an 80cm SOLID dish is recommended. You need a special Saorsat LNB for the dish. The system does not carry TV3 and probably will not carry some future channels for financial reasons. The dishes are far more directional that a normal 80cm dish. They are as hard to align as a 1.5M dish. You should not be using the meter in the receiver to align the dish. Ideally you should use a proper meter. Even the cheapo inline meters are better than the meters that are built into receivers.

In theory you can use any satellite receiver that can decode HD satellite TV. The signal is a DVB-S2 signal so non HD boxes will not "see" it. It is recommended to use a satellite receiver with MHEG (not mpeg) for the digital TV guide. You may also be able to use a TV with inbuilt satellite receiver if needed.

The signal comes from 9East so the dish needs to point much further west than a Sky dish.

If you want the UK channels too you need a receiver with DiSEqC capability and either two dishes, or one dish with two LNBs. Mounting two LNBs on the one dish is tricky and hard to align, especially without a proper professional measurement tool.

Stinicker

I wonder when will we see RTE1 HD on Saorsat if ever?