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Why don't we riot like mad ejits

teR_

You turn on the news and ya see all these countries around us that were/are in the shlt, there all running around like lunatics breaking things and burning stuff.

Here we are and we don't even do the peaceful side of it, am I the only one disappointed in our incapacity to do anythings?

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Foxhound38

fr336 wrote: »

Whose*

I've wandered into a thread about spelling pedantism, it seems

Grizzly 45

P_1 wrote: »

Because contrary to popular belief we aren't actually mad ejits....

Although TIL the german finance ministry is in the same building that a certain Herr Goering used to occupy

It actually the Revenue officals not the finance ministry.

fr336

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I've wandered into a thread about spelling pedantism, it seems

Nah. One post out of 17 pages. But then you knew that of course

Foxhound38

fr336 wrote: »

Even if they were being a hypocrite (which I doubt), that wouldn't make what they said any less true. Why are some people so keen to maintain a status quo and not even have the least bit of simple discussion? Obviously there's not government employees on forums everywhere, least of all boards :pac:, which makes it even more bizarre in my eyes

It wouldn't make what any less true? That we should be "throwing some $hit back at the Government"? OK, what does that mean? If it means we should go for a Riot, I fail to see how that would help anyone tbh...

listermint

keithclancy wrote: »

This is like blaming the tee totaler chick in your house for your raging hangover.

That analogy is fundamentally flawed. Unless the teetolling chick owns a chain of alcohol stores that are running happy hour. Amongst other bad analogies in relation to German European Policy.

fr336

Foxhound38 wrote: »

It wouldn't make what any less true? That we should be "throwing some $hit back at the Government"? OK, what does that mean? If it means we should go for a Riot, I fail to see how that would help anyone tbh...

I dunno either way. Maybe the riot comment should be completely ignored and some sensible discussion around the key issues should take place, rather than try as hard as can be to divert attention away from them and label anyone with an opposing view a conspiracy theorist

Foxhound38

fr336 wrote: »

Nah. One post out of 17 pages. But then you knew that of course

Indeed, more than you know the charter at any rate it seems!

Anyway, back on topic for me

fr336 wrote: »

I dunno either way. Maybe the riot comment should be completely ignored and some sensible discussion around the key issues should take place, rather than try as hard as can be to divert attention away from them and label anyone with an opposing view a conspiracy theorist

Why would I ignore the riot comment? It's in the thread title - the thread specifically asks why we're not rioting "like mad eejits". My answer: because it would be a stupid, counter-productive thing to do.

The reason Kult is being accused of conspiracy theorizing is because at several points in the thread, he started spewing out conspiracy theories. Including one as I recall whereby he linked a video from famed US racist and lunatic David Duke talking about how the Jews apparently secretly control the media etc.

Jonny7

fr336 wrote: »

Why are you belittling the user in this way? They don't know for sure, but neither do you. I can understand people choosing not to believe something, and that is course absolutely fine, but why so keen to shut down any discussion on it? What purpose does it serve you? Or don't you even know you're so used to doing it and seeing others do it? Reported.

lol..

Maybe posters calling others stupid and handing out insults shouldn't expect to not be challenged on their nonsense

fr336

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Indeed, more than you know the charter at any rate it seems!

Anyway, back on topic for me

Doesn't make much sense, this. Boring.

Hedge11

fr336 wrote: »

... and label anyone with an opposing view a conspiracy theorist

Kult is seeing hidden conspiracy where it never existed e.g. the widespread, open anti-Semitism of the 19th & 20th centuries.

fr336

Foxhound38 wrote: »

talking about how the Jews apparently secretly control the media etc.

To think in your terms, this isn't apparently or secretly anything - it's all out there and certainly not just on conspiracy sites..:p

DistanceVector

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Are you at the Dail with a bag full of Molotov Cocktails yet, or are you just referring to my complacent ar$e?

I take your point, I am a keyboard warrior.

But this keyboard warrior's head feels like its about to explode with the way this state is being run and each day it just descends deeper and deeper into the cesspit.

We deserve more as a people, and don't give me 'you get the govt you deserve' crap.

The whole game is rigged. We just swap one goon squad for another every few years.

I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.

I am in the process of moving to Cork but when I get there I am joining up.

I aint sayin they have all the answers or are any better, but I have to get out from behind this keyboard and talk to other like minded folks who want real progress towards a real, accountable Republic.

Enough corruption and old boys networks covering each other. Its a game to them and they laugh at us plebs.

What are you gonna do beside Snipe from the sidelines?

wicklowstevo

DistanceVector wrote: »

I take your point, I am a keyboard warrior.

But this keyboard warrior's head feels like its about to explode with the way this state is being run and each day it just descends deeper and deeper into the cesspit.

We deserve more as a people, and don't give me 'you get the govt you deserve' crap.

The whole game is rigged. We just swap one goon squad for another every few years.

I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.

I am in the process of moving to Cork but when I get there I am joining up.

I aint sayin they have all the answers or are any better, but I have to get out from behind this keyboard and talk to other like minded folks who want real progress towards a real, accountable Republic.

Enough corruption and old boys networks covering each other. Its a game to them and they laugh at us plebs.

What are you gonna do beside Snipe from the sidelines?

aaawww yes the party that protects murders and peados is better than the one that protects criminal bankers and developers. im afraid your options are more limited than you think. i just hope we dont all panic into electing what is basicly a criminal gang to government

:(:(:(:(

the_syco

teR_ wrote: »

You turn on the news and ya see all these countries around us that were/are in the shlt, there all running around like lunatics breaking things and burning stuff.

Do you know what happens then? Everyone on social welfare gets no money, and people working find their jobs in jeopardy...!

renegademaster

Jonny7 wrote: »

lol..

Maybe posters calling others stupid and handing out insults shouldn't expect to not be challenged on their nonsense

that's right, prioritise holding a random internet poster to account for non-sensical post but leave the politicians and their ilk to do their job and if we're not satisfied in apr 2016 we can vote another corrupt shower into government safe in the knowledge that the irish people will do nothing even when shown blatent corruption

excellent plan, if i were corrupt and i seen the level of civil obedience going on round here i'd be quaking in my fcuking boots :rolleyes:

ps. i also loved that old chestnut "i'm going to protest against the protestors"

ffs that still cracks me up lol

renegademaster

DistanceVector wrote: »

I take your point, I am a keyboard warrior.

But this keyboard warrior's head feels like its about to explode with the way this state is being run and each day it just descends deeper and deeper into the cesspit.

We deserve more as a people, and don't give me 'you get the govt you deserve' crap.

The whole game is rigged. We just swap one goon squad for another every few years.

I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.

I am in the process of moving to Cork but when I get there I am joining up.

I aint sayin they have all the answers or are any better, but I have to get out from behind this keyboard and talk to other like minded folks who want real progress towards a real, accountable Republic.

Enough corruption and old boys networks covering each other. Its a game to them and they laugh at us plebs.

What are you gonna do beside Snipe from the sidelines?

we are where we are because while so many were busy organising protests, occupy etc the whole country seemed to be busy at the same time no matter what time or day each and every single protest was on.

believe me when i tell ya it broke my fcuking heart everytime there was a good reason to hit the streets only to be laughed and pointed at on marches or physically attacked during occupy.

i am still gobsmacked tbh

fr336

renegademaster wrote: »

that's right, prioritise holding a random internet poster to account for non-sensical post but leave the politicians and their ilk to do their job and if we're not satisfied in apr 2016 we can vote another corrupt shower into government safe in the knowledge that the irish people will do nothing even when shown blatent corruption

Haha so true!

renegademaster

fr336 wrote: »

Haha so true!

man if i had a euro for everytime i heard some non-sense excuse of a citizen tryin to make a point while exposing themselves to be in a deep sleep i'd be a fcuking tax exile

languagenerd

This thread has gone rather off topic now. Do I want to see Ireland's economy back on track? Yes, of course. Do I want to see those corrupt bankers and politicians who helped bring the country to its knees held to account? Yes. Do I want Germany to run Europe? Of course not. But do I think riots will achieve anything to help the previous three situations? No, I don't.

Imagine there were riots in our city centres. Imagine buildings were burnt and smashed and whatever else you think riots should entail. The consequences of that are:
(1) Some people injured or even killed. Lives torn apart. Pressure on the already under-funded emergency services.
(2) The government, already looking at a huge bill for the floods this year, have to figure out how to fund all the repairs. Taxes may increase.
(3) Businesses see their premises and stock destroyed. Some of these are already pushed to the edge by recession: they can't afford to rebuild. Their workforce must go on the dole, costing the government a lot of money, plus lost income tax.
(4) Anyone who's lost their job now doesn't buy lunches in town, or use public transport as often, or go to the shops near their jobs after work. Other local businesses lose out. Further potential job losses and increased social welfare bills. People can't afford any non-essential items, so businesses all over the country lose out.
(5) People lose confidence in the city centre - what if another riot breaks out? They go to shopping centres or travel to another town instead. More shops lose business, further job losses. (This happened to a certain degree in Belfast last Christmas with all the flag trouble)
(6) Tourists see images of Irish riots on the news. They decide it's not safe to come here and choose a different destination. More lost business, more job losses, less money to the exchequer.

And all to achieve... what? To let the government know we're unhappy? There are other ways of doing this, ways that don't involve shooting ourselves in the foot and destroying our own cities.

Knob Longman

renegademaster wrote: »

we are where we are because while so many were busy organising protests, occupy etc the whole country seemed to be busy at the same time no matter what time or day each and every single protest was on.

believe me when i tell ya it broke my fcuking heart everytime there was a good reason to hit the streets only to be laughed and pointed at on marches or physically attacked during occupy.

i am still gobsmacked tbh

Snobbishness towards protests, Typical of the place, There is an old saying "You can't argue with a fool" which is fairly apt regarding Ireland..

fr336

Knob Longman wrote: »

Snobbishness towards protests, Typical of the place, There is an old saying "You can't argue with a fool" which is fairly apt regarding Ireland..

Nah you can definitely class England as being the same as Ireland for the most part - extremely compliant bunch of good little lads and lasses here these days.

Jester252

Oh no not another "I'm better than you because I protested" threads.

KyussBishop

SpaceTime wrote: »

Having spoken to a lot of German academics over the years, I think they've actually got a rather high-handed and somewhat patronising notion that they can spread the German economic model to the less stable countries of Europe.

They see their model as having been a roaring success and can't see why everyone else doesn't just do exactly the same. Then ignore the fact that the rest of Europe doesn't have the same level of dependence on industrial exports and high-tech exports and could be depending on totally different economic areas - financial services & attracting FDI : (UK, Benelux and Ireland), tourism (many Med countries), agribusiness (France in a big way) etc.

I'm not so sure that it's all that macabre, they just think they're right and that everyone else is doing it wrong!

I honestly don't think it's all that much about self-serving self-interest and more about just oversimplification and not understanding how European economies actually work.

Yes, I'd actually agree with you 100% here, but what this misguidedness says is: Germany (and all the countries with similarly misguided economists, i.e. pretty much all countries) share the burden of blame for this entire crisis, regardless of whether or not some countries financial sectors, were more profligate than others (and they were all profligate, in every country), because they let terrible economists run the show.

I agree that most (nearly all) economists (in Germany or otherwise) really do believe they are doing the right thing and taking the optimal path.
I don't believe this is down to Germany though, it has actually occurred throughout nearly all economic thought in academia, going back to the last Great Depression (and significantly worsening since the late-70's/early-80's) - economic academia is pretty much intellectually 'captured', by neoliberal/neoclassical economics, and other economists which don't fit within that mainstream, are marginalized.

So I agree, most of the economists/politicans believe what they are doing is right, because they base their knowledge on 'the only game in town' (or well, by far the most dominant one anyway), i.e. neoclassical economics - however:
Look at past historical precedent, and what the US used neoliberalism to do to South-East Asia, and South America (particularly Chile) - this is not well-intentioned economic policy, miscalculatingly causing harm, it's the effect of ideological capture (with neoclassical/neoliberal economics) of economic academia, and how that has corrupted world politics - and the US have used that to gain significant political control over countries, through their economics.

What does that say about now, that precisely the same policies used to cripple the countries affected by the above, are being used on us now?

A lot of economists/politicians/people have taken this economic ideology at face value, but what does it say about just how innocent it is, when it has been used to destroy countries economies, gain political control over them, strip their assets, and disempower their citizens (eroding/removing democracy essentially).

KyussBishop

DistanceVector wrote: »

...
I don't know whats to be done exactly .

I AM GOING TO JOIN A POLITICAL PARTY AND GET ACTIVE.

Most likely Sinn Fein.
...

Why Sinn Fein? I would never want to be associated with that party, due to the deep doubts (putting it mildly) over the credibility of people in their leadership (don't see how they could ever be looked on favourably in that regard, even when compared to FF/FG).

I'm not hugely knowledgeable about the history of SF or NI in general, but I don't think it would be a good thing for this country at all, if SF ever got into power.

KyussBishop

languagenerd wrote: »

This thread has gone rather off topic now. Do I want to see Ireland's economy back on track? Yes, of course. Do I want to see those corrupt bankers and politicians who helped bring the country to its knees held to account? Yes. Do I want Germany to run Europe? Of course not. But do I think riots will achieve anything to help the previous three situations? No, I don't.

Imagine there were riots in our city centres. Imagine buildings were burnt and smashed and whatever else you think riots should entail. The consequences of that are:
(1) Some people injured or even killed. Lives torn apart. Pressure on the already under-funded emergency services.
(2) The government, already looking at a huge bill for the floods this year, have to figure out how to fund all the repairs. Taxes may increase.
(3) Businesses see their premises and stock destroyed. Some of these are already pushed to the edge by recession: they can't afford to rebuild. Their workforce must go on the dole, costing the government a lot of money, plus lost income tax.
(4) Anyone who's lost their job now doesn't buy lunches in town, or use public transport as often, or go to the shops near their jobs after work. Other local businesses lose out. Further potential job losses and increased social welfare bills. People can't afford any non-essential items, so businesses all over the country lose out.
(5) People lose confidence in the city centre - what if another riot breaks out? They go to shopping centres or travel to another town instead. More shops lose business, further job losses. (This happened to a certain degree in Belfast last Christmas with all the flag trouble)
(6) Tourists see images of Irish riots on the news. They decide it's not safe to come here and choose a different destination. More lost business, more job losses, less money to the exchequer.

And all to achieve... what? To let the government know we're unhappy? There are other ways of doing this, ways that don't involve shooting ourselves in the foot and destroying our own cities.

See the problem with this thread, is that it's almost as if its express purpose has been to get people to talk about rioting, as a means of disparaging protesting and political action with that as a straw-man; a discussion of actual protesting is worth having, but one which focuses on rioting is only ever going to be a complete waste of time.

BrensBenz

Well, who would end up paying for the stuff that us mad eejits break and burn?

As for the guvverment, when you see an eejit in a job for which he isn't suited, you need to ask "who put him there?"

WE DID! WE elected them (or allowed them to be elected), often on the basis of "his farder got the road fixed (or suchlike) and me farder always voted for him so I'll vote for his son". Brilliant!

And who appointed and monitored the Financial Regulator? The eejits that WE sent to the Dail.

And who ignored the warnings from international, economics gurus? The eejits that WE sent to the Dail.

Admittedly, this is a simplistic view but not quite as simplistic as "everybody's wrong except me". Sorry lads, but the real cause of our woes is much closer to home.

Eight Ball

The people who don't protest are cowards and have zero right to complain about "bankers and dodgy politicians" etc... You get the government you deserve.

Hedge11

Eight Ball wrote: »

The people who don't protest are cowards

Cowards? What's the worst that could happen to you on protest? Someone see you on the news & take the piss?

Most people just think protesting is a waste of time.

Jonny7

Eight Ball wrote: »

The people who don't protest are cowards and have zero right to complain about "bankers and dodgy politicians" etc... You get the government you deserve.

Can you name these bankers and politicians and list the crimes they have committed/evidence of the corruption

Once you have that, then you have something solid and tangible - it would be a good first step towards a protest group that wants to be taken seriously

As an analogy in the workplace..

e.g. generally there are two types of people in a job - those who complain, whinge and blame management for issues.. and those who want to coordinate and proactively address the issue with the goal of solving it

Many employers know this and therefore often set up systems which benefit and encourage the latter over the former

Eight Ball

Jonny7 wrote: »

Can you name these bankers and politicians and list the crimes they have committed/evidence of the corruption

Once you have that, then you have something solid and tangible - it would be a good first step towards a protest group that wants to be taken seriously

As an analogy in the workplace..

e.g. generally there are two types of people in a job - those who complain, whinge and blame management for issues.. and those who want to coordinate and proactively address the issue with the goal of solving it

Many employers know this and therefore often set up systems which benefit and encourage the latter over the former

You actually think evidence will come into the public eye over political or banker corruption? This is Ireland pal. Might happen in a functioning democracy but the establishment just circle the wagons here.