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Child Item

Garda Ombudsman offices bugged

Iwannahurl

According to today's Sunday Times, the Garda Siochana Ombudsman Commission (GSOC) was subject to a sophisticated surveillance operation which used “government-level technology” to hack into its emails, wi-fi and phone systems.

Link: http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/ireland/article1373695.ece?CMP=OTH-gnws-standard-2014_02_08

It seems the surveillance was detected last year after the GSOC engaged security consultants in the UK to investigate whether its HQ was bugged.

The consultants allegedly discovered that a phone in the GSOC offices was bugged. The bugged room was "regularly used to hold case conferences on sensitive investigations".

"A test of the line confirmed the phone was being used to eavesdrop on meetings", according to the Sunday Times sources.

Very odd. Who might be motivated to put the GSOC under surveillance? And who would have the technology and expertise?

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sopretty

Satriale wrote: »

This is someone who described men who blew the whistle on corruption as "quite disgusting"

Yes, if heads are to roll, I know which one I'd like to see on a platter first. He is really not doing AGS's public image/credibility any favours.

I Heart Internet

sopretty wrote: »

Yes, if heads are to roll, I know which one I'd like to see on a platter first. He is really not doing AGS's public image/credibility any favours.

There always seems to have been a natural (somewhat healthy) tension between senior AGS and the Minister for Justice. Now that GSOC is on the scene and doing their job, things have deteriorated.

I don't blame the Minister or GSOC for this....(I could be wrong though).

knird evol

I Heart Internet wrote: »

Standard US policing would tell us a "crooked cop" is to blame. And perhaps that the guy from Internal Affairs knew all along.

Let's roll...:cool:

Callanans rushing home to get his family and the hidden suitcase of cash. Get to Mexico before IA nab him. But he doesn't mind doing 25 years once his kids and the money they'll need are safe.

mickdw

Very interesting. I believe the gsoc acted properly in this instance. Informing the minister who would no doubt have gone running to the garda commissioner would have been a stupid move.
I relation to the issued last night. I figured he mentioned Gardai in that statement as he really only had authority to investigate the Gardai. So he carried out the security investigation and established that the Gardai were not involved.
From that stage on, I guess the minister can point the finger in that when the Gardai were found to be in the clear, they should been brought in to investigate who in fact dis bug them.
All is not revealed yet so I'm sure gsoc will have some information to still point them towards state involvement and that being the case, you would have to say they were still correct in nor Informing the minister.
As for Kenny, he was absolutely wrong and surely be will have to come out and say that. Trying to doing dirt at gsoc, a classic case of diverting attention away from the actual issue at hand.
tv3 provided much more realistic coverage of this last night, clearly pointing out that Kenny was wrong and basically saying it how it was.
Rte are a joke.

suicide_circus

mickdw wrote: »

Very interesting. I believe the gsoc acted properly in this instance. Informing the minister who would no doubt have gone running to the garda commissioner would have been a stupid move.
I relation to the issued last night. I figured he mentioned Gardai in that statement as he really only had authority to investigate the Gardai. So he carried out the security investigation and established that the Gardai were not involved.
From that stage on, I guess the minister can point the finger in that when the Gardai were found to be in the clear, they should been brought in to investigate who in fact dis bug them.
All is not revealed yet so I'm sure gsoc will have some information to still point them towards state involvement and that being the case, you would have to say they were still correct in nor Informing the minister.
As for Kenny, he was absolutely wrong and surely be will have to come out and say that. Trying to doing dirt at gsoc, a classic case of diverting attention away from the actual issue at hand.
tv3 provided much more realistic coverage of this last night, clearly pointing out that Kenny was wrong and basically saying it how it was.
Rte Pravda are a joke.

Yep

hatrickpatrick

There's a difference between establishing that the Gardai were not involved, and failing to find evidence that they were. Subtle difference, but a difference nonetheless.

The latter implies that there is simply no evidence to suggest that something happened, the former implies that it has been categorically established that something did not happen.

tritium

Given that the gsoc felt they couldn't report this to the Gardai (for whatever reason), it begs the question of who could carry out an investigation in a case like this. Surely there's an argument for a full blown internal affairs division to carry out the job like in some other jurisductions

Phoebas

mickdw wrote: »

I believe the gsoc acted properly in this instance.

The GSOC themselves don't even believe that.

tayto lover

oholly121 wrote: »

But they didn't make this public the GSOC! and most of the evidence would have either been destroyed or gone according to security consultants!

Someone made it public.
According to the GOSC they were alerted by things appearing in the media and they didn't know how it was leaked from within. So they felt they must have been bugged.
Why would the Garda make something public in the media if they obtained it illegally by bugging an office?
Does not make sense to me.
I believe the Gosc was probably bugged by media paid security people so that they could have nice juicy stories.
After the News of the World scandal it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

sopretty

tayto lover wrote: »

Someone made it public.
According to the GOSC they were alerted by things appearing in the media and they didn't know how it was leaked from within. So they felt they must have been bugged.
Why would the Garda make something public in the media if they obtained it illegally by bugging an office?
Does not make sense to me.
I believe the Gosc was probably bugged by media paid security people so that they could have nice juicy stories.
After the News of the World scandal it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

I wasn't aware that they stated that they were alerted by things appearing in the media? The only thing I've read is that 'someone' had information that they couldn't or shouldn't have had, unless they were bugging their offices?
I'm not aware of much media coverage surrounding the ombudsman's investigations being published last year?

tayto lover

sopretty wrote: »

I wasn't aware that they stated that they were alerted by things appearing in the media? The only thing I've read is that 'someone' had information that they couldn't or shouldn't have had, unless they were bugging their offices?
I'm not aware of much media coverage surrounding the ombudsman's investigations being published last year?

I read that in one of the newspapers yesterday at work.
Always nice juicy stories in the GOSC.
There was loads of stuff printed in the media lkast year i.e. the Kieran Boylan case that involved the GOSC and the Garda.

My name is URL

tritium wrote: »

Given that the gsoc felt they couldn't report this to the Gardai (for whatever reason), it begs the question of who could carry out an investigation in a case like this. Surely there's an argument for a full blown internal affairs division to carry out the job like in some other jurisductions

You mean a fully independent unit like the Northern Ireland Policing Board? That can't happen in Ireland since Gardai are responsible for both policing and matters of national / state security, which invariably means having access to politically sensitive information. That's one of the main reasons why GSOC have such little powers compared to ombudsmen in other jurisdictions.

It's not right but it's the way it is. Unless huge changes are made to how policing works in this country, and how closely knit senior sections of the Gardai are with politics, we'll never see the likes of a truly independent policing board set up here. FFS, we were one of the last countries in Europe to get an ombudsman.. it's still less than 10 years old.

tayto lover

My name is URL wrote: »

You mean a fully independent unit like the Northern Ireland Policing Board? That can't happen in Ireland since Gardai are responsible for both policing and matters of national / state security, which invariably means having access to politically sensitive information. That's one of the main reasons why GSOC have such little powers compared to ombudsmen in other jurisdictions.

It's not right but it's the way it is. Unless huge changes are made to how policing works in this country, and how closely knit senior sections of the Gardai are with politics, we'll never see the likes of a truly independent policing board set up here. FFS, we were one of the last countries in Europe to get an ombudsman.. it's still less than 10 years old.

I have been saying here for years that the Garda Commissioners should not be political appointees. There should be an independent board instead of politicians promoting one of their own.

EireGun

My name is URL wrote: »

You mean a fully independent unit like the Northern Ireland Policing Board? That can't happen in Ireland since Gardai are responsible for both policing and matters of national / state security, which invariably means having access to politically sensitive information. That's one of the main reasons why GSOC have such little powers compared to ombudsmen in other jurisdictions.

It's not right but it's the way it is. Unless huge changes are made to how policing works in this country, and how closely knit senior sections of the Gardai are with politics, we'll never see the likes of a truly independent policing board set up here. FFS, we were one of the last countries in Europe to get an ombudsman.. it's still less than 10 years old.

We need an independent agency responsible for national security matters then, like the FBI in the US or MI5 in the UK. Maybe merge the Defence Forces' Directorate of Intel. with a civilian agency to create a reasonably sized civilian intelligence agency. Countries similar to our size have civilian intelligence agencies, with an oversight from the government and National Security Committee. The Gardai could then be more accountable to a Police Ombudsman.

who_ru

My name is URL wrote: »

FFS, we were one of the last countries in Europe to get an ombudsman.. it's still less than 10 years old.

And if Kenny, callinane, shatter get their way it will be reduced to nothing more than a symbolic office. All hope of accountability will be lost, the ordinary citizen will be practically powerless to bring the police to book if the police abuse their powers. And there is some history of this in this state.
Right from the outset the police have almost completely refused to cooperate with GSOC on a range of matters.
We should all be very concerned by these developments and should be emailing our elected representatives about it. If GSOC can no longer effectively investigate the police then we will be one step closer to a police state.

wicklowstevo

Taoiseach: No evidence Garda Ombudsman Commission offices have been ‘bugged’

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-no-evidence-garda-ombudsman-commission-offices-have-been-bugged-29999966.html

suicide_circus

wicklowstevo wrote: »

Taoiseach: No evidence Garda Ombudsman Commission offices have been ‘bugged’

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/taoiseach-no-evidence-garda-ombudsman-commission-offices-have-been-bugged-29999966.html

oh...ok....nothing to see here folks, return to your homes and paying your taxes unquestioningly.

sopretty

suicide_circus wrote: »

oh...ok....nothing to see here folks, return to your homes and paying your taxes unquestioningly.

It was all just a wee misunderstanding...............

Me hole!

tayto lover

Did someone in the GOSC jump the gun on this and make a fool of himself?

[Deleted User]

Taoiseach Enda Kenny said that it was not a bug that was found it was infact a Chinese Lantern.

sopretty

Coincidentally, I have a questionnaire sitting in my press that I received last week from the GSOC (explains my particular interest in this situation!). Basically it was a complaint I sent to the ombudsman, which was referred to the Garda Complaints Commission (too lazy to root out all correspondence). GSOC oversaw the handling of it (or at least, corresponded with me twice in relation to a delayed decision by the investigation). Got the decision last week from the gardai that there was no breach of disciplinary code or something blah blah blah acts. This was followed by a survey from GSOC which includes a question about how I feel about a member of the gardai, investigating a complaint against a member of the gardai (superintendent from a neighbouring county investigated my complaint). I must get up off my ass and fill out the survey.

Phoebas

suicide_circus wrote: »

oh...ok....nothing to see here folks, return to your homes and paying your taxes unquestioningly.

sopretty wrote: »

It was all just a wee misunderstanding...............

Me hole!

Its a sad day when a leak from an unidentified source is accepted before the word of the Taoiseach.

mikom

Phoebas wrote: »

Its a sad day when a leak from an unidentified source is accepted before the word of the Taoiseach.

I'd prefer a leak than a shovel of shite.

[Deleted User]

Phoebas wrote: »

Its a sad day when a leak from an unidentified source is accepted before the word of the Taoiseach.

What do you think of the Taoiseachs words yesterday?

My name is URL

Phoebas wrote: »

Its a sad day when a leak from an unidentified source is accepted before the word of the Taoiseach.

Considering the lie he kept repeating yesterday and earlier today, about how the GSOC were legally obliged to report it to Shatter, you'd forgive people for being sceptical about what he says now.

suicide_circus

Phoebas wrote: »

Its a sad day when a leak from an unidentified source is accepted before the word of the Taoiseach.

This post makes me fear for the future of the country. A democracy in which leaders are not ruthlessly questioned is no democracy at all.

wicklowstevo

tayto lover wrote: »

Did someone in the GOSC jump the gun on this and make a fool of himself?

wouldn't be the first time . or the second or third etc !

ever deal with them ? ffs lads who were ran from other jobs and soaked up into GSOC:mad::mad:

sopretty

suicide_circus wrote: »

This post makes me fear for the future of the country. A democracy in which leaders are not ruthlessly questioned is no democracy at all.

It would be a far sadder day, if we as a public, given our statutory bodies' combined histories, FAILED to question the veracity of any 'revered' figure or figure-head.

Youzername

tayto lover wrote: »

Someone made it public.
According to the GOSC they were alerted by things appearing in the media and they didn't know how it was leaked from within. So they felt they must have been bugged.
Why would the Garda make something public in the media if they obtained it illegally by bugging an office?
Does not make sense to me.
I believe the Gosc was probably bugged by media paid security people so that they could have nice juicy stories.
After the News of the World scandal it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Of course they have motive to do this, as many have already highlighted in this thread, this could have been leaked in an attempt to undermine the GOSC. Which it seems Callinan and senior AGS seem to be encouraging and attempting to do at the moment...

I think it is fair that the GOSC (may) have considered them as potential culprits. After all, they essentially 'police' the police (AGS), why would they not consider them?? It would be foolish for them not to consider AGS.

I accept that they are innocent until proven guilty, and I'd like to think/hope they are not involved. But plainly ruling them out is silly IMO. We just don't know.

You have been pro AGS throughout this thread. I wouldn't be surprised if you have some sort of affiliation with them tbh...?

Red Pepper

I suspect a big cover-up is happening now. Circle the wagons lads, let it blow over. I can see a lot of ordinary citizens afraid to contact the ombudsman after this.