Dun Laoghaire Junkies

Just to add that Dun Laoighre suffers from more Nimbys than any other area in Ireland. That's common knowledge and I know for a fact that several companies have left the area due to issues with this.

Tabnabs

The Reverend wrote: »

The Stena will not return this summer, it's retired and they're going to lease it back to an outfit in Panama, which is what they did a couple of years back. It was meant to run it's usual 12 days of Christmas this year, something I was relying on, but I was told, by Stena staff in both Dublin and Holyhead, that the route is now closed. I would love to see it coming back, even for the summer, but it's not going to happen. That chapter is closed.

The HSS was too expensive to run (special fuel that was too expensive), and since they changed the sailing time (used to be 11.15am then changed to 1.15pm) it now misses the London train by 10 minutes, and is too late for the northwest premiership game supporters. As a result, it's passengers numbers have fallen to virtually a handful. Also, because of the sailing times, it was no longer attractive to the haulage industry who need early starts.

This is not my opinion, this is a fact, and nothing you can't find out for yourself. i've done my research on it because I have business in Chester and having to take the north wall ferry just makes for 5am starts to the day.

I quote from the Stena Line website:

The Fastcraft resumes its seasonal service on 9 April until 9 September 2014.

http://www.stenaline.ie/routes/dun-laoghaire-holyhead

It even allows me to make a booking.

Now who do you think is a more reliable source? And if you base such an assertion with so much apparent belief, which other firmly held opinions are going to fall foul of fact?

Dun Laoghaire could be one of the most beautiful places to live in Dublin, but there are enough derelict buildings and charity shops to make the most rose tinted glasses pretty much worthless. The regeneration will begin along the seafront, but DL is much bigger than just what can be see from the CoCo office windows...

Tabnabs wrote: »

but DL is much bigger than just what can be see from the CoCo office windows...

well thanks to concrete library they are building they no w see 50% less of dun laoighre.

it really is a turning out to be horrible building. it could have been great but instead they copied the UCD arts block

Seaswimmer

Tabnabs wrote: »

Dun Laoghaire could be one of the most beautiful places to live in Dublin, but there are enough derelict buildings and charity shops to make the most rose tinted glasses pretty much worthless. The regeneration will begin along the seafront, but DL is much bigger than just what can be see from the CoCo office windows...

Sad and weary, dull and dreary. That's the thing about Dun Laoghaire..

SimonMaher wrote: »

Reverend,

I know this is off the topic of Methadone clinics (apologies Mods) but you have been misinformed by somebody about the situation with the HSS in Dun Laoghaire. HSS ran for it's 12 days over Christmas (well, 10 of them at least - weather got in the way of the others!) and will return on April 9th until September 9th as well as the 12 days of Christmas 2014. As of now, the plan is to do the same for 2015 too (the contract with the Harbour is being extended until then at least).

You're right about the economic issues surrounding it but it provides valuable extra car/tourist capacity (and market share) to Stena during the high season. A number of the Christmas sailings were totally booked out and summer bookings in 2013 were healthy too thankfully. For the summer, what would be ideal would be a morning and an evening sailing giving people the opportunity to spend time (and more importantly money) in Dun Laoghaire for the day. Joined up thinking would suggest that this could be encouraged by giving Stena a discount on the berthing fees if they agree to extra sailings at weekends in peak season. You never know! People are trying.

Anyway, sorry again mods - back to the Bakers Corner saga.

Simon,

An interesting reply, thank you.

I would love to hear I’m wrong, especially when it gives me hope that the ferry will be back in service. The challenge however, is Stena keep moving the posts and their ‘official’ line is always subject to change. If I ask the staff in Dublin port, I get one version, another from Dun Laoghaire and yet another from Holyhead.

Let me give you an example. The HSS used to take about 90 minutes to make the crossing, now it takes 2 hours 20 mins. Dun Laoghaire said it was going slower to save on fuel. Dublin port said it was to prevent them arriving into Holyhead too early. However, Holyhead said the timing was to discourage the ‘rail and sail’ foot passengers, who provided little to no revenue.

All plausible excuses, but which is the official line?

Regarding their return this summer, well again, it depends who you ask. I spoke face-to-face with the agent in Holyhead three weeks ago and he said that the route was finally closed as it was operating at a loss. Passenger numbers and freight were at an all time low and the general public, quite obviously, had now switched to a more reliable and consistent service in Dublin port.

I’m in agreement with you regarding the times. It used to sail in the morning and evening. The fact is they can sail whenever they want as they own the docking facilities in Holyhead. So it is there choice to operate at 1.15pm, despite the thousands of complaints (according to the Dun Laoghaire office) they receive annually about the sailing times, train connections etc.

As I said, I hope I’m wrong and like you, I wish Dun Laoghaire port would address the fees issue and get HSS back on all year around.

Tabnabs,

Yes, the site does allow you to make bookings, as I did last year, only to find that I got an email to say my sailing would be from the north wall due to ‘operational changes’. They just can’t be relied on.

Ted,

‘Dun Laoghaire suffers from more Nimbys than any other area in Ireland. That’s common knowledge and I know for a fact that several companies have left the area due to issued with this’.

Yet another of these ‘worst in Ireland’ statements, so can I ask you:

1. Common knowledge amongst who? I’ve never heard it, are you a DL resident?

2. Can you name and show some evidence of any of the companies who have left Dun Laoghaire specifying ‘too many Nimbys’ as their reason for leaving.

Be specific, name one company and show us where we can find their reasons for pulling out of Dun Laoghaire.

You clearly know more than anyone, after all your views reflect those of 'everyone in Ireland' in your posts. Knowing what everyone in the country is saying is quite a powerful position to hold, you could do some great work with that sort of insight.

Regards to all,

The Reverand.

The Reverend wrote: »

Ted,

‘Dun Laoghaire suffers from more Nimbys than any other area in Ireland. That’s common knowledge and I know for a fact that several companies have left the area due to issued with this’.

Yet another of these ‘worst in Ireland’ statements, so can I ask you:

1. Common knowledge amongst who? I’ve never heard it, are you a DL resident?No but i don't live to far away, and I see if first hand as does everyone else i know, we have discussed it numerous times.

2. Can you name and show some evidence of any of the companies who have left Dun Laoghaire specifying ‘too many Nimbys’ as their reason for leaving.

Be specific, name one company and show us where we can find their reasons for pulling out of Dun Laoghaire.

You clearly know more than anyone, after all your views reflect those of 'everyone in Ireland' in your posts. Knowing what everyone in the country is saying is quite a powerful position to hold, you could do some great work with that sort of insight.I can, but for operational reasons i will choose not to name them

Regards to all,

The Reverand.

Just put NIMBY and Dun laoighre in google and watch the number of item it returns.

ted1 wrote: »

Just put NIMBY and Dun laoighre in google and watch the number of item it returns.

Ted,

Thank you for your well-informed reply.

It appears that you not only represent the voice of Ireland, but you seem to have some issues with the residents of Dun Laoghaire.

If you're going to state make wild statements, at least back them up with some tiny shred of evidence, it gives you credibility.

I'll continue to scour Google to find the 'secret list' of companies that have moved their businesses from Dun Laoghaire to other locations due to there being 'too many nimbys' in the town.

I'm guessing however, my search will be fruitless as it is classified information - despite your statement that 'all of Ireland knows this'.

I can tell your a man of great integrity. Your reluctance to disclose one single name out of 'all the companies' who have pulled out over Nimbygate shows you to be a man of great honour, despite not even being a resident of the town.

Marvellous.

Regards,

The Reverend.

The Reverend wrote: »

Ted,

Thank you for your well-informed reply.

It appears that you not only represent the voice of Ireland, but you seem to have some issues with the residents of Dun Laoghaire.

If you're going to state make wild statements, at least back them up with some tiny shred of evidence, it gives you credibility.

I'll continue to scour Google to find the 'secret list' of companies that have moved their businesses from Dun Laoghaire to other locations due to there being 'too many nimbys' in the town.

I'm guessing however, my search will be fruitless as it is classified information - despite your statement that 'all of Ireland knows this'.

I can tell your a man of great integrity. Your reluctance to disclose one single name out of 'all the companies' who have pulled out over Nimbygate shows you to be a man of great honour, despite not even being a resident of the town.

Marvellous.

Regards,

The Reverend.

The companies I'm not naming won't appear in a google search, they are still profitable and trading, but believe me the constant objections from Nimbys were reasons for moving. I'm closely related to the CEO's so won't be naming them.

A google search will reveal constant marches, protests etc from Dun Laoighre NIMBYs. the HSS and dun Laoighre harbour is a prime example, the severe curtailment of trucks is the reason of its downfall. HGV make up a core buisness for ferries.

well the people of dun laoighre voted in Richard Boyd Barrett, so that in itself indicates that they are anti progress and development.

if you choose to live in a bubble then suit yourself. but before I log off can you answer this question.

Why was it that the Dun Laoighre bathes were never developed when ever other part of Ireland was?

Larbre34

I agree largely with Ted1 but to say the rest of the country developed wouldnt be quite accurate, some of it developed, some more if it lashed up some awful stuff in appalling planning practices.

However the point is valid and you dont even have to look outside the County. Dundrum developed and Dun Laoghaire did not, and the reason for that is the progressiveness of the local reps and population in Dundrum and vice versa. Im not saying the Dundrum Area is perfect but it always opts for facilities, jobs and enterprise and that keeps it young and more vital.

To paraphrase Shaw 'Dun Laoghaire looks at things that are and asks why? Dundrum dreams of things never were and asks why not?'

ted1 wrote: »

The companies I'm not naming won't appear in a google search, they are still profitable and trading, but believe me the constant objections from Nimbys were reasons for moving. I'm closely related to the CEO's so won't be naming them.

A google search will reveal constant marches, protests etc from Dun Laoighre NIMBYs. the HSS and dun Laoighre harbour is a prime example, the severe curtailment of trucks is the reason of its downfall. HGV make up a core buisness for ferries.

well the people of dun laoighre voted in Richard Boyd Barrett, so that in itself indicates that they are anti progress and development.

if you choose to live in a bubble then suit yourself. but before I log off can you answer this question.

Why was it that the Dun Laoighre bathes were never developed when ever other part of Ireland was?

Ted,

You can't make statements that reflect your personal opinion and then generalise them to the entire country. If you're going to say 'everyone in Ireland' then show evidence, otherwise it's just hot air.

I live here, you don't, yet you seem to be aware of 'constant marches and protests' going on. Where are they? When were they? I have never seen one. Where are you getting all this information?

I don't know much about Richard Boyd Barrett except that he was voted in on a promise to preserve Dun Laoghaire and not allow it to be handed over to developers to do as they chose. That's a fairly descent cause.

I doubt he has driven away any businesses, why would he want to do that? Last I read he was trying to get landlords to reduce the retail rental prices to attract new businesses. However, I'm not informed on this so can't comment.

Regarding the Baths, my information is also limited. I know that a developer wanted to buy it and turn it into apartments years ago. The locals objected, and yes, there was a small protest, as they are entitled to. It's their town after all. Since then it’s been boarded up. There were no winners or losers and now it’s just an eyesore.

Don't get so worked up about a town you don't even live in. I'm sure your area has plenty of issues that need addressing.

Larbre,

Fair point, but Dundrum is a different case. It had acres of land to play with, was underdeveloped, and as such, a developers dream. It didn’t have any amenities, Dun Laoghaire did. It was built with surgical precision so that everything was linear and symmetric. Dun Laoghaire is more natural, and seasoned.

However, look at Dundrum now. The apartment block across the road from the shopping centre exit is falling apart because the management company and the builders went bust. The brickwork is coming apart, the paint is peeling off, and all the metal fixtures are rusting. Same story on the block to the left as you come down the hill. Go take a look for yourself, you can see it from your car window. This is what happens when you let developers run the show. They're lying on a beach while some unfortunate owners are having to pay for repairs that were meant to be guaranteed.

Dun Laoghaire is different. It’s a heritage town that is steeped in history. The local residents who’ve lived here all their lives, have a right to stop developers defacing their town. It’s like comparing Oxford to Luton in the UK. One’s a kip, the other one is beautiful, and the residents intend to keep in that way. That's their right.

I’ll finish this round with some evidence, because I believe you have to back up what you say. Go on any of the property rental sites and have a look the difference in rental/sale prices between Dundrum and Dun Laoghaire. Rental and sale prices are significantly higher in Dun Laoghaire than Dundrum, and further, Dundrum has about three times as many properties to let than Dun Laoghaire. Prices and availability are linked to demand, so clearly the demand is for Dun Laoghaire, not Dundrum.

Which would you rent, an apartment in a quite town overlooking the sea with every possible amenity on your doorstep, or an apartment overlooking an apartment with nothing to do except shop?

ReverEnd, Killiney is hardly a million miles away from Dun Laoighre so i think i'm entitled to my opinions (I also had a shop in Dun Laoighre during naughties, In fact one of my shop signs is still hanging up on Geroges street). As a resident you seem to be unaware of alot of the goings on in both Dun Laoighre and the DLRCoCo area.

with Regards RBB, he represents a group called people before profit. That is not a group that business people want to see in an area.

ted1 wrote: »

ReverEnd, Killiney is hardly a million miles away from Dun Laoighre so i think i'm entitled to my opinions (I also had a shop in Dun Laoighre during naughties, In fact one of my shop signs is still hanging up on Geroges street). As a resident you seem to be unaware of alot of the goings on in both Dun Laoighre and the DLRCoCo area.

with Regards RBB, he represents a group called people before profit. That is not a group that business people want to see in an area.

Ted,

I grew up in Killiney during the 80's, beautiful spot however, it was plagued with Ballybrack scumbags stealing cars, robbing houses and shooting up in peoples' gardens. So even the nicest places can't escape the reality of drugs.

I'm not blind to what's going on in Dun Laoghaire, I know it has problems. Just tonight two women off their heads started f'ing me out of it because i wouldn't give them a cigarette. Then i took a shortcut by the old TNT buildings and again, more scumbags off their heads looking for cash.

I'm not unaware, i'm very aware - I just choose not to focus on it, difficult as that is. if i give my senses to these wasters then I'm just wasting my own life.

So it's back to the original question, why are we giving them such a cosy little spot to spend their day taking drugs? It just defies belief that we hand out drugs that make people dangerous and unpredictable, then pat them on the back and send them into town where there are kids and old folks.

We don't need to re-invent the wheel here, just follow the model of other countries where they have more effective systems.

I'm sorry to hear about your business closing, I don't wish ill on anyone. So let me put a question to you, and anyone else reading, what would you do if you were in charge of Dun Laoghaire, where would you start getting this town up and running again?

The Reverend wrote: »

I'm sorry to hear about your business closing, I don't wish ill on anyone. So let me put a question to you, and anyone else reading, what would you do if you were in charge of Dun Laoghaire, where would you start getting this town up and running again?

We relocated the shop to town. We closed it in Dun Laoighre as the Council were hopeless and were driving clients away with the over zealous parking wardens.

where would I start, I'd relax the parking wardens, and parking costs. I'd take a zero attitude to drug taking an danti social behavouir. if it meant filling the gardai stations ever day, thats what I would do. I'd remove the parking on the mail pier and make it in to a public space, they should never have knocked down the original station. A permant Ice rink or something coudl go there.

I'd redevelop the shopping centre with the top few floors converted to office shop and try to attract FDI to the area. I would put a levy of 3% of property price on all vacant units so as to create a fund to maintain the area and to attract new buisness.

I'd like to other cities and see how to developed the coastal suburbs. Deffinetly enhancing the usage of the marien with regards leisure use.

RainyDay

ted1 wrote: »

We relocated the shop to town. We closed it in Dun Laoighre as the Council were hopeless and were driving clients away with the over zealous parking wardens.

where would I start, I'd relax the parking wardens, and parking costs.

You're way off target. Relaxed parking enforcement means more commuter parking, and more long term parkers - not short term business customers.

You should be trying to replace car parking with bike parking, which will bring in about 5 x revenue for your business.

https://bikehub.ca/sites/default/files/imce/business.bikes_.benefits.pdf

Tabnabs

RainyDay wrote: »

You're way off target. Relaxed parking enforcement means more commuter parking, and more long term parkers - not short term business customers.

You should be trying to replace car parking with bike parking, which will bring in about 5 x revenue for your business.

https://bikehub.ca/sites/default/files/imce/business.bikes_.benefits.pdf

Interesting, is there an Irish study which backs up these figures?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpClf-SEI9U

ted1 wrote: »

We relocated the shop to town. We closed it in Dun Laoighre as the Council were hopeless and were driving clients away with the over zealous parking wardens.

where would I start, I'd relax the parking wardens, and parking costs. I'd take a zero attitude to drug taking an danti social behavouir. if it meant filling the gardai stations ever day, thats what I would do. I'd remove the parking on the mail pier and make it in to a public space, they should never have knocked down the original station. A permant Ice rink or something coudl go there.

I'd redevelop the shopping centre with the top few floors converted to office shop and try to attract FDI to the area. I would put a levy of 3% of property price on all vacant units so as to create a fund to maintain the area and to attract new buisness.

I'd like to other cities and see how to developed the coastal suburbs. Deffinetly enhancing the usage of the marien with regards leisure use.

Lot of solid ideas there, have you ever run them by anyone? It only takes on person to start the process of change.

Starting with the parking issue, how about this:

1 hour – Free

2 hours – 2 euro

3 hours – 5 euro

… and so on

You can see where I’m going with this.

Give the day shoppers a reason to come and go about their business, at a fair price, without the stress of being ticketed. Treat people fairly, make them feel like they’re getting a good deal and watch what happens.

Also, it will discourage the commuters because once you go over, let’s say 5 hours, the price goes up steeply, maybe 20 euro or more.

A win-win, or dumb idea?

Chinasea

RainyDay wrote: »

You're way off target. Relaxed parking enforcement means more commuter parking, and more long term parkers - not short term business customers.

You should be trying to replace car parking with bike parking, which will bring in about 5 x revenue for your business. And the rest

https://bikehub.ca/sites/default/files/imce/business.bikes_.benefits.pdf

Very interesting and of course totally obvious, but not to those who just refuse to believe that CAR is not King. Shame John Waters didn't read this and put some of his welly behind it, alongside the other 'BID' bidder usual suspects., i.e the useless Dun Laoghaire Business Association car mad advocates.

Dun Laoghaire has little or NO provisions made for cycling. Only a few that were chanced upon, or a last minute token.

EricPraline

Larbre34 wrote: »

However the point is valid and you dont even have to look outside the County. Dundrum developed and Dun Laoghaire did not, and the reason for that is the progressiveness of the local reps and population in Dundrum and vice versa. Im not saying the Dundrum Area is perfect but it always opts for facilities, jobs and enterprise and that keeps it young and more vital.

To paraphrase Shaw 'Dun Laoghaire looks at things that are and asks why? Dundrum dreams of things never were and asks why not?'

I really don't think you can hold Dundrum up as a blueprint here. It was developed at a unique time when credit was freely available, coinciding with the "perfect" combination of a new mode of public transport and unprecedented levels of both retail spending and residential property speculation. This allowed the area to be completely transformed (whether for the better or worse is a matter of opinion). But we're not going to see this kind of redevelopment any time soon. Look at the failed plans for Stillorgan SC or a Belfield village that have been shelved indefinitely. Local reps aren't going to change that.

Dundrum may look shiny now, but then so did Blackrock Shopping Centre and the Dart once upon a time.

rubadub

The Reverend wrote: »

2. Due to it's location, Bakers Corner offers little reason for the addicts to hang around after they have received their medication.

DL might be more attractive, but I imagine they will be in the church grounds and the pub car park. Or go to the pub.

The Reverend wrote: »

4. An earlier poster mentioned that 'influential' locals would make sure the clinic will never be moved to Baker's Corner. I'm sorry to report that nobody has any such 'influence', regardless of their ego, or how powerful they think they are.

Not sure who the other poster was thinking of. I would have thought the owner of bakers would be doing everything in his power to stop this.

And another poster had a good point about this being a double blow. I had thought of buying a house nearby there once and the garda station being near was seen as a good benefit/value. This would be proper salt in the wound to local residents.

gerire

Just saw this today - looks like the town businesses are getting together

Sounds like a good idea. Funny how it's all men and not even a token woman speaking though.

mhge wrote: »

Sounds like a good idea. Funny how it's all men and not even a token woman speaking though.

I guess we have different sense of humour

ted1 wrote: »

I guess we have different sense of humour

I guess I was being sarcastic

mhge wrote: »

I guess I was being sarcastic

I got that, but I didn't see the relevance on trying to play a sexism card. Comments like that generate a " typical silly women" response

ted1 wrote: »

I got that, but I didn't see the relevance on trying to play a sexism card. Comments like that generate a " typical silly women" response

Do they? I find it relevant that an initiative looking to gain broad support does not present (or possibly include) a broader range of representatives to appeal to a broader audience...

Women really need to learn which battle to fight.....

its an initiative by business owners. I'm pretty sure its not just a Mens club and that any female business owner can join in and i'm sure they probably are.

ted1 wrote: »

Women really need to learn which battle to fight.....

its an initiative by business owners. I'm pretty sure its not just a Mens club and that any female business owner can join in and i'm sure they probably are.

Eh it's not a battle just an observation. I agree that they are probably not a men's club so why not to show it...

Chinasea

I have read the bid and am at a loss as to what the real innovative plans are? This looks very weak. I hate to rain on the parade, but gosh that is all very limp. The 3 key factors that I strongly believe would help enhance the town transform back to a more unique, local, family-friendly, pleasant, safer and environment would be:

[*]A proper pedestrian zone
[*]Cycling facilities (decent ones), i.e cycle lanes, proper bike stands, perhaps even one of the bike shops could offer discounted servicing etc.
[*]Implement the tree strategy

Instead of or on top of:

• Shop in Dún Laoghaire posters and advertisements:
o On Buses, bus shelters, Dart
o signs on the Pier
o signs throughout the town
• Tap in to the footfall on the pier and bring them into town through
o shop in Dún Laoghaire Ambassadors handing out vouchers
o A display of the businesses in town on the pier
• Website and App: Shop in Dún Laoghaire
• PR Campaign highlighting the positive aspects of shopping in
Dún Laoghaire, shop profiles in local newspapers
• Introduce a Smart Traffic Management & Parking App to improve
people’s knowledge of parking availability in Dún Laoghaire.
• Initiative to reduce parking charges.

Larbre34

Chinasea wrote: »

[*]A proper pedestrian zone
[*]Cycling facilities (decent ones), i.e cycle lanes, proper bike stands, perhaps even one of the bike shops could offer discounted servicing etc.
[*]Implement the tree strategy

Instead of or on top of:

• Shop in Dún Laoghaire posters and advertisements:
o On Buses, bus shelters, Dart
o signs on the Pier
o signs throughout the town
• Tap in to the footfall on the pier and bring them into town through
o shop in Dún Laoghaire Ambassadors handing out vouchers
o A display of the businesses in town on the pier
• Website and App: Shop in Dún Laoghaire
• PR Campaign highlighting the positive aspects of shopping in
Dún Laoghaire, shop profiles in local newspapers
• Introduce a Smart Traffic Management & Parking App to improve
people’s knowledge of parking availability in Dún Laoghaire.
• Initiative to reduce parking charges.

There was a proper pedestrian zone, the local businesses agitated to add traffic back to it

Cycle lanes are deficient, but there are so many bike stands the visually impaired must curse them

The bike shops have worked with national bike week and opened up clinics and cheap servicing in some of the other empty units before. Bike servicing isnt expensive compared to a car or daily public transport use, it does not require incentives

Why would you spend a fortune on advertising 'shop here' signs for a town you are already in? There is a load of new signs directing people from the leisure areas at the seafront to the shopping streets and vice versa.

This - http://www.dunlaoghaire.ie/ already exists, and theres an app for that.

The local newspapers are full of nothing else but profiles of the local towns sponsored by the respective retailers.

The problem certainly isnt congested traffic and lack of parking, any satnav will guide you to DL no problem and the parking and carparks are signposted.

Parking costs on the street reduced by 25% last month to undercut the multi-storeys and the private carparks are doing serious value for weekly/monthly tickets

As someone who intends to vote for the BID, I would ask you not to rain on a parade without reviewing the floats.