football_lover wrote: » There is not that many one of houses out there. Most rural is based around clusters. But there is also the issue of farms requiring communications systems as well that may well be isolated. There also might be coastal situations where communication systems are required.
garroff wrote: » Please.....this discussion has gone astray. Could we just stick to BB and ESB job of getting this vital resource to rural areas?
football_lover wrote: » The reason why there is not modern communications systems in rural area's is down in factor to a large proportion of urban dwellers assuming that the rural communities do not matter.
football_lover wrote: » It will get blocked on the issue of cost.
dubrov wrote: » There has to be a balance and there is only so much cost that can be levied on urban dwellers.
murphaph wrote: » rather than small clusters of houses that can at least share a group water scheme, waste water treatment and of course utilities including broadband.
football_lover wrote: » There is not that many one of houses out there.
norrie rugger wrote: » I live in an area such as this and can only get Eircom's 8Mb (at a max) and they have no plans for an area upgrade
nuxxx wrote: » Is there any projected coverage for this or are things at an too early stage?
murphaph wrote: » To be honest if your nearest neighbour is 30 metres away and that is typical spacing then it's more ribbon/one off than cluster. You can see from the German (but could pick England or France etc. just as well) map I linked to that clustering means that. In a 30m radius you'd have maybe 4 or 5 houses, not 1 or 2. You can run fibre to the centre of the cluster and serve VDSL. In Ireland it's a much harder proposition. To be honest you're probably lucky to have 8MB. I grew up in Newcastle, Co. Dublin and the "old" houses (1970s) can (at best) get ADSL from the Rathcoole exchange. My mother gets around 2MB on ADSL there in such a house. The new houses in the village all have UPC of course and Eircom plans to roll out VDSL to the village this year but up until this year you will have had much better BB than my mother (and her neighbours) who lives 2 metres from her neighbour on one side and 0 metres from her neighbour on the other. Until places like Newcastle are up and running with VDSL it would be unfair to expect your area to be sorted with houses spread out so far from each other. There are even parts of cities with no broadband, which is really not acceptable at all. You shouldn't be denied quality BB but you must realise that there are lots of places that "should" have it already and don't and they need fixing first.
GBCULLEN wrote: » if the esb are conducting a so called trial why is it not mentioned anywhere on their websites???? I think this is all baloney. At least with eircom they said where the tests were and so on.
dubrov wrote: » Urban people aren't that different from rural people. Maybe you should get to know some. Now you are getting there. It just costs more to get services to rural dwellings. There has to be a balance and there is only so much cost that can be levied on urban dwellers.
SpaceTime wrote: » The boycotting of rural communications networks is not underway. There is actually a VDSL2 (e-fibre) service in a whole load of very small towns and it will reach even quite tiny towns by 2015/16. Getting one-off housing and ribbon development covered with some kind of technology is a very different issue and really needs to be addressed with very high speed radio systems, backed by local fibre feeding the masts/towers. (As I have said repeatedly on the thread) The reality is that you can't realistically provide some of these hardwired services in really low density scattered housing. You can absolutely provide them in small villages right down to under 30 homes. FTTC technology's effectively completely useless for ribbon development and will never be a solution to it. Fibre's probably uneconomic to rollout along very long runs to individual homes unless there's some kind of agreement by the homeowner to pay for it much like power lines at present. The best solution is a mix of fibre / FTTC for small towns and villages and radio systems for their hinterlands and really rural areas. Over 40% of rural homes are one-off houses (I've seen plenty of stats on this) and it's highly unusual by any comparison in Europe. There are a few similar US and Canadian examples and they also struggle with this kind of technology. The problem is they're not clustered, they're often built spread along miles upon miles of roads between towns and villages. That's probably the worst possible kind of spread for communications technology as it's a ribbon not a cluster.
GBCULLEN wrote: » this was announced in July last year and it was said a decision would be made in Sept. Its now Feb 2014 ... and nothing. I rest my case.http://www.uswitch.ie/broadband/news/2013/07/22/esb-pursue-partnerships-for-new-super-fast-fibre-broadband-network/
After the decision has been made, there is expected to be months of negotiations regarding the operation of the new company, and work is expected to start in the first quarter of 2014.
murphaph wrote: » You may make some good points (farms need to be able to avail of quality broadband as well as farming is becoming more and more high tech) but to be honest you ruin any valid points you have by pretending that rural one off housing is not even a problem/issue. The vast vast majority of people living in one off housing do not work on the land and don't even work in associated sectors (vets etc.). We all know the majority of rural one off dwellers could just as well live in clusters. Your definition of "cluster" (houses up to 200 metres apart strung along a road) is actually one off housing and not a sustainable cluster type development at all.Here is what rural Ireland looks like and here is what rural Germany looks like (same scale!). Can you not see why provision of utilities including broadband is so much more difficult in rural Ireland because we have chosen this one off development pattern? It is actually an American import. It is not how our forefathers settled rural Ireland.
nuxxx wrote: » I dont mind if it takes time , eircoms rollout has been a disaster
murphaph wrote: » Don't think that's fair at all. I was pleasantly surprised at the speed of the rollout.
Davy wrote: » Did you even read it? We aren't even a month into 2014 yet. If its costing 400million surely it makes sense to get it right if it takes a few months longer. Also just because the trials weren't on there website doesn't mean they don't exist.
football_lover wrote: » To have a widespread rural fiber optics systems will be in billions not hundreds of million and this will not cover everybody. But over the long term it could be achieved and the benefits of such systems will be very important to the Irish economy. The Irish government actually has a chance to give Irish agriculture a massive advantage on the Global Scale with these fiber optics systems but my gut feeling is that Ireland does not have the vision to build these systems. There are even those on these forums that will keeping bring up the cost issue for rural broadband. And there solution is for rural communities to move to urban centers. If we want to keep our agriculture alive then this is one of the ways of doing it.
football_lover wrote: » I have not said that rural one off's are not a problem just that majority of Irish rural houses are not one off. The number of houses that are one off are in the minority but still they are important as a lot of these are farms some of them because issues like communications may become abandoned and this will be lost farm production as well. Farms are part of a community and if there is no community these farms will be highly isolated if everybody decides to move to the urban areas. Houses that are 200m apart are not isolated houses they more than likely have telephones lines and mains water. These are not some one of house in the middle of no where. If telephone cables can be put there so can fiber optics. Farming of the no so distant future will rely on genetics and distributed sensor networks and automation and these will require fiber optics communications systems to deal with large bandwidth applications. If you look at the bigger picture you will see that Ireland needs every advantage it can get and this will be one of them. Disease monitoring, rapid reaction, soil monitoring, livestock monitoring and many more techniques will enable advanced agricultural practices. it is projected that over the coming years agriculture will be come more important to Irish GDP. Cost is not a real issue when this is being analysed in terms of development and investment on a large scale is required.
nuxxx wrote: » That was my point. I've seen nothing but complaints from efiber customers about massive contention at peak hours, many of which now experience slower speeds than they had with DSL.
