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The majority of Irish people are passive and obedient.

harryr711

Noam Chomsky: The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.

For most Irish people the spectrum of acceptable opinion is FF and FG. I know many people who have this opinion, and given the almost daily scandals in the media they haven't got a clue what way to vote at the next General Election, but it'll only be one of four options - FF, FG, spoiled vote, no vote.

FF and FG have for a long time been almost one and the same, with only the civil war acting as the dividing line.

If this is the spectrum of acceptable opinion for the majority, then is it unrealistic to expect change and reform in Ireland? Will history just repeat itself ad nauseum?

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harryr711

Phoebas wrote: »

you've only told me that 'acceptable opinion' is opinion that is deemed 'acceptable'.
Don't you really mean that different people just have different opinions?
By describing people that don't share your opinion as 'passive' and 'obedient', aren't you really doing exactly what you're complaining of - deeming these opinions as somehow unacceptable?

No, you should read Chomsky's quote and try to understand it. I haven't stated what my political opinion is, I'm purely commenting on the spectrum of acceptable opinion, how narrow that spectrum is in Ireland for the majority, and how opinions outside that spectrum are dismissed out of hand.

Howard Juneau

Santa Cruz wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY0veESwXtU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Karl Stein

The mainstream media is a case in point in the business of keeping the debate within acceptable parameters. Critical intellectuals don't get airtime on regular media outlets - their speaking truth to power is not welcome on what amount to propaganda outlets for the establishment.

What happens then is that these critical intellectuals end up getting air-time on media outlets like RT or Al Jazeera which allows the usual goons to say 'pfff RT?' sure that's just an extension of the Kremlin which may be true but ignores what's being discussed. The legitimate criticisms of the status quo and the speaking of truth to power gets stigmatised and drowned out. Job done.

gugleguy

Did you post this thread because of the subject makes useful content for theimpending RAG WEEK season in irish 3rd level colleges OP?

Santa Cruz

Howard Juneau wrote: »

It's called a protest vote.
The Green party rode that wave some years ago. Now it's the alliance of looneys, by the time the next election comes around we may have another beneficiary of the fickle Irish voters ways

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo

Howard Juneau

mango salsa wrote: »

But for a lot of people they are acceptable! !!!!!

It's called a protest vote.
The Green party rode that wave some years ago. Now it's the alliance of looneys, by the time the next election comes around we may have another beneficiary of the fickle Irish voters ways

Phoebas

harryr711 wrote: »

"Acceptable opinion" is spectrum/range of opinion that is deemed acceptable and reasonable by the majority of society, e.g. FF and FG being the only acceptable political parties for the majority of Irish people. Everything that falls outside that spectrum is deemed as unacceptable/radical/insane and so on. The limits as to what is acceptable and the inability to consider and analyse other opinions, also acts to reinforce what is deemed acceptable.

you've only told me that 'acceptable opinion' is opinion that is deemed 'acceptable'.
Don't you really mean that different people just have different opinions?
By describing people that don't share your opinion as 'passive' and 'obedient', aren't you really doing exactly what you're complaining of - deeming these opinions as somehow unacceptable?

Annasopra

harryr711 wrote: »

There are other options, but for a lot of people those other options are not acceptable.

But for a lot of people they are acceptable! !!!!!

MonstaMash

Soon as I read FF/FG, I switched off...I'm out!

Howard Juneau

As long as the alternatives to FF & FG are the likes of Ming & Mick and the economically clueless SF there won't be much of a shift in voting patterns.
Just FG & FF playing "To me, to you' with the seat of power

kneemos

The Greens were original thinkers.Sadly that thinking was
ballbag crazy.

harryr711

Phoebas wrote: »

I don't understand what this thread is about. What do you mean by 'acceptable opinion' OP?

"Acceptable opinion" is spectrum/range of opinion that is deemed acceptable and reasonable by the majority of society, e.g. FF and FG being the only acceptable political parties for the majority of Irish people. Everything that falls outside that spectrum is deemed as unacceptable/radical/insane and so on. The limits as to what is acceptable and the inability to consider and analyse other opinions, also acts to reinforce what is deemed acceptable.

mango salsa wrote: »

I'm not sure that I would agree with your thesis at all about FF/FG/Spoiled vote/No vote. There are various other options.

There are other options, but for a lot of people those other options are not acceptable.

Valetta

I'm not really sure what this is about either.

I have my own opinions and don't really care who they are "accepted" by.

Maybe I'm wierd.

kneemos

We might have Lucinda Creighton and her far right party to talk about shortly.
The left doesn't work and generally fall in line with their coalition buddies anyway.
I'd agree though FF and FG are entrenched in their ways.

Annasopra

harryr711 wrote: »

Noam Chomsky: The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.

For most Irish people the spectrum of acceptable opinion is FF and FG. I know many people who have this opinion, and given the almost daily scandals in the media they haven't got a clue what way to vote at the next General Election, but it'll only be one of four options - FF, FG, spoiled vote, no vote.

FF and FG have for a long time been almost one and the same, with only the civil war acting as the dividing line.

If this is the spectrum of acceptable opinion for the majority, then is it unrealistic to expect change and reform in Ireland? Will history just repeat itself ad nauseum?

I'm not sure that I would agree with your thesis at all about FF/FG/Spoiled vote/No vote. There are various other options.

adrag

harryr711 wrote: »

Noam Chomsky: The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.

For most Irish people the spectrum of acceptable opinion is FF and FG. I know many people who have this opinion, and given the almost daily scandals in the media they haven't got a clue what way to vote at the next General Election, but it'll only be one of four options - FF, FG, spoiled vote, no vote.

FF and FG have for a long time been almost one and the same, with only the civil war acting as the dividing line.

If this is the spectrum of acceptable opinion for the majority, then is it unrealistic to expect change and reform in Ireland? Will history just repeat itself ad nauseum?

Those who fail to examine their past, are doomed to repeat it,
Change cant happen unless tht 2big parties change .chances of that zero

FairytaleGirl

Lol have you been to the North!I wish more here were passive and obedient!

Phoebas

I don't understand what this thread is about. What do you mean by 'acceptable opinion' OP?

JuliusCaesar

harryr711 wrote: »

FF and FG have for a long time been almost one and the same

Blaphemy!

According to FG/FF supporters

marketty

harryr711 wrote: »

Noam Chomsky: The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum.

For most Irish people the spectrum of acceptable opinion is FF and FG. I know many people who have this opinion, and given the almost daily scandals in the media they haven't got a clue what way to vote at the next General Election, but it'll only be one of four options - FF, FG, spoiled vote, no vote.

FF and FG have for a long time been almost one and the same, with only the civil war acting as the dividing line.

If this is the spectrum of acceptable opinion for the majority, then is it unrealistic to expect change and reform in Ireland? Will history just repeat itself ad nauseum?

If you say so