SW wrote: » Education minister has said faith formation should happen outside the classroom.http://www.thejournal.ie/religion-class-schools-ireland-1282335-Jan2014/ Disappointed that the poll voters majority disagrees.
recedite wrote: » But that older school is privately owned, it was built by the COI. This new one is being constructed entirely with public money (its not open yet) and the patronage vote was won narrowly by COI. The non COI (ie non faith school) vote was split between ET and VEC. The only other secondary school in Greystones is RC, and many RC people seem to have voted for the COI as there was no RC bid for the patronage. Anyway as I'm living locally I've been making all these points since before the patronage was decided, but its amazing how many people think its only fair and right for the "winner" of the patronage competition to do whatever they want with the school afterwards. Its a "winner take all" attitude, similar to what you might see when politicians get into government. Its probably best not to flood that thread with < intemperate > comments at this stage though
Qs wrote: » Shouldn't have surprised anyone. The CoI school in Wicklow Town has the exact same policy. They are much, much more exclusionary than any of the RCC schools.
ninja900 wrote: » In Northern Ireland, absolutely. but it seems bizarre to me in England where secular education is the norm.
Sulla Felix wrote: » Thought this thread over on the Greystones/Wicklow sub-forum might be of interest here.http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057099520 Long story short, it appears CoI camaigned and won the right of patronage to a secondary school on the back of promises that admissions would be interfaith prioritizing seven particular schools. Now that the deal is done, ink is dry, a new admissions policy for the next admission year has appeared that's giving priority to CoI congregants.
recedite wrote: » I think so. Wouldn't it be great to see them widespread in N.Ireland? If it works here, it should work in other jurisdictions that have a common historical background.
Deputy Mattie McGrath: asked the Minister for Education and Skills Information on Ruairí Quinn Zoom on Ruairí Quinn his views on whether the Forum for Patronage Report was far too narrow in scope and centred much more around the religious education curriculum rather than any meaningful understanding of whole school ethos; his views on whether the forum report's philosophy will impose restrictions on Roman Catholic schools in respect of the way religious education is taught in Roman Catholic schools, on the way the religious artefacts are displayed, on the way prayer-life is conducted and the way the Christian ethos is lived; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Minister for Education and Skills (Deputy Ruairí Quinn):The Report of the Advisory Group to the Forum on Patronage contains a wide range of recommendations aimed at ensuring that Irish schools cater for the diversity within society. These recommendations were drawn up following a public consultation process and widespread engagement with interested parties. As part of my Action Plan in response to the Report, I recently conducted a further consultation process to give parents, in particular, an opportunity to give their views on the Group's recommendations on how schools can become more inclusive. The process to date has given ample opportunity for the views of all interested parties to be taken on board. In accordance with the Programme for Government commitment, the submissions received, together with the Forum Report findings and recommendations, are now being considered with a view to developing a White Paper outlining Government policy in this area.
ninja900 wrote: » Is it wrong of me to wish they'd concentrate all their efforts on this country?
Educate Together wrote: The Department for Education in London has announced that Educate Together will run the new primary school to be opened in Avonvale Road in Bristol in September 2014. The school will be a full two class per year primary school. It is one of three new schools being opened in Bristol in the next two years to address rapidly increasing pupil numbers in the city. The school is part of the British state-funded system, is open to all in the area and is not a private or fee-paying school. Speaking about the announcement, Paul Rowe, CEO of Educate Together said: "We are delighted to work with our partners within Educate Together Academy Trust in the development of this school. We are really excited about the development and are looking forward to working with local parents, the community, the English Department for Education and Bristol City Council to make sure that this school makes a real contribution to the educational landscape of Bristol and an excellent school for children and parents.”
recedite wrote: » I think he is basically saying to the school patrons, when you control the schools, use that opportunity to evangelise/indoctrinate any non-RC kids to the maximum, and ignore that multicultural p.c. bullcrap attitude that some of the more liberal teachers might like to adopt.
CNA wrote: Vatican City, Dec 26, 2013 / 08:02 am (CNA/EWTN News).- A recently released Vatican document is calling for a fresh commitment to Catholic identity within what it calls an increasingly secularized educational system. At a press conference held Dec. 19, Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski, prefect of the Congregation for Catholic Education, said, “the Catholic identity of the school is fundamental.” Noting the many challenges facing Catholic schools, the Cardinal added, “today one of the greatest problems is when large organizations want to impose gender ideology.” “Today, due to the advanced process of secularization, Catholic schools find themselves in a missionary situation, even in countries with an ancient Christian tradition,” reads the congregation's “Educating To Intercultural Dialogue in Catholic Schools.” “Catholic schools' primary responsibility is one of witness. In the various situations created by different cultures, the Christian presence must be shown and made clear, that is, it must be visible, tangible and conscious,” the document continues. “Catholic schools have in Jesus Christ the basis of their anthropological and pedagogical paradigm; they must practice the 'grammar of dialogue,' not as a technical expedient, but as a profound way of relating to others. Catholic schools must reflect on their own identity, because that which they can give is primarily that which they are.” Cardinal Grocholewski reaffirmed this vision at the press briefing. “Catholic schools are best not just because they give knowledge and competence, but because they show interest in the person for the good,” he said. According to data from the Annual Church Statistics given at the press conference, the number of students in Catholic schools has risen from nearly 55 million in 2008 to around 58 million in 2011. The document notes, however, that “Catholic schools are seeing an ever growing presence of students with different nationalities and religious beliefs. In many countries of the world, most students profess a non-Catholic religion and the theme of interreligious encounter is now unavoidable.” Archbishop Angelo Vincenzo Zani, Secretary for the Congregation of Catholic Education, said today that “the differences between cultures are not obstacles, but opportunities.” The goal of Catholic schools should be to find balance between the two cultural extremes found in the world today, advises the document. On the one hand, “one needs the ability to witness and dialogue, without falling into the trap of that facile relativism which holds that all religions are the same and are merely manifestations of an Absolute that no-one can truly know.” On the other, “what is important is to give answers to the many young people 'without a religious home,' the result of an ever more secularized society.” “The final aim of education in intercultural dialogue,” Cardinal Grocholewski concluded, “is the construction of a civilization based on love. The civilization of love, for Christians, does not mean a vague solidarity, but rather an expression of Christ's charity. “This is the service through which Catholic schools, which always strive to join their work of education with the explicit proclamation of the Gospel, are a most valuable resource for the evangelization of culture, even in those countries and cities where hostile situations challenge us to greater creativity in our search for suitable methods.”
freedominacup wrote: » Any admissions policy that doesn't say we will take all comers with no regard to any criteria will be considered unfair by someone.
freedominacup wrote: » Sectarian does not mean seperated by religion and I believe you use that word emotively because of it's extremely negative association with violence in Northern Ireland.
freedominacup wrote: » I think the perception of church control of schools is fairly far removed from the reality...
freedominacup wrote: » Either people want parents to have an increased say in the running of schools or they don't. If they do then you must endorse the decisions taken by parents regardless of how these decisions sit with your personal preferences.
freedominacup wrote: » ... only if the school is full to capacity. There are very few schools in my area turning away students for any reason. Quite the opposite in fact.
recedite wrote: » It seemed to be your attitude, but answer a direct question then; is it alright for a publicly funded school to give priority to kids based on the religion of their family? 25% is a minority stake, not a controlling position, even if all the parents were in complete agreement on an issue. I didn't say parents should have no role, I said their role should be limited within a publicly funded school. If all the parents decided they didn't want traveller children in the school for example, or that the hours should be changed to 8am to 6pm, they should remember that the school caters to them but is not controlled by them.
ninja900 wrote: » and even private members' clubs aren't allowed discriminate entirely freely.
freedominacup wrote: » Where did I say it was alright?
freedominacup wrote: » I could not agree with you that parent should have no role in the running of schools regardless of how they are funded and thankfully the criteria laid down for the apointment of school boards ensures that a minimum of 25% of the boards are parents. It means that sometimes there is a chance that parents can get into a controlling position on the board which is a good thing IMO regardless of what said parents views are.
recedite wrote: » So you think that's alright then? If there are places in a state funded school "left over" after all the people of a certain religion are catered for, then these miscellaneous others, the second class citizens, can have them. Yes. If a school is entirely privately funded, let them teach whatever they like and refuse admission to whoever they don't like. In that situation parents are the pipers that call the tune. If they receive state funds, there should be no discrimination tolerated against any citizen of this state. They should teach only an approved curriculum, and no religious indoctrination should be allowed whatsoever. In that situation parents can only complain if proper procedures are being neglected /abused. The situation of state-funded religious control, which you are happy with, is neither one nor the other.
