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Ban on speaking irish in Maze prison...

MonsterCookie

...according to confidential files...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/ban-on-irish-speaking-in-maze-prison-sparked-political-row-1.1639948

"The use of the Irish language in the Maze prison caused a major headache for the Northern Ireland Office in the early 1980s, according to previously confidential files released in Belfast."

Should we be surprised that prisoners were not allowed converse in irish?

For all that was wrong with the regime in those days, personally it's not surprising at all.

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Daqster

There's a prison made of corn??

Sorry, corny joke, I know. Couldn't help myself.

MonsterCookie

Daqster wrote: »

There's a prison made of corn??

Sorry, corny joke, I know. Couldn't help myself.

It was a fairly crop joke alright.

overpronator

More corny jokes please, I'm all ears!

Tramps Like Us

They did converse in Irish on the blocks anyway. They had lessons and such too, shouted from the cells.

Prisoner authorities in Long Kesh were notorious scumbags

degsie

I have an idea, let's dig up and rehash the past and not move forward....

MonsterCookie

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

They did converse in Irish on the blocks anyway. They had lessons and such too, shouted from the cells.

Prisoner authorities in Long Kesh were notorious scumbags

Lessons? How do you mean?

MonsterCookie

degsie wrote: »

I have an idea, let's dig up and rehash the past and not move forward....

But we have moved forward.

smcgiff

degsie wrote: »

I have an idea, let's dig up and rehash the past and not move forward....

What's that about history and something something repeating it?

degsie

MonsterCookie wrote: »

But we have moved forward.

So why dig up this cr@p?

DEFTLEFTHAND

The same prison that Billy Wright met his grisly end in, an internal transfer to meet his folks, when the Prison van was halted and John Kennaway (planters name) and two other INLA men ambused him. They shot him to pieces in the back of the van. LVF ......Lead The Way..:rolleyes:

The UVF were in on it apparently.

MonsterCookie

degsie wrote: »

So why dig up this cr@p?

I'm hardly digging if it's made the irishtimes in fairness. You can choose not to get involved if you don't want to!

Carlos Orange

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Should we be surprised that prisoners were not allowed converse in irish?

Does it say that in the article somewhere? The article only seems to refer to visits.

degsie

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

The same prison that Billy Wright met his grisly end in, an internal transfer to meet his folks, when the Prison van was halted and John Kennaway (planters name) and two other INLA men ambused him. They shot him to pieces in the back of the van. LVF ......Lead The Way..:rolleyes:

The UVF were in on it apparently.

I think this proves my point :rolleyes:

MonsterCookie

psinno wrote: »

Does it say that in the article somewhere? The article only seems to refer to visits.

Title refers to a ban and the article implies that it wasn't tolerated.

tdv123

Just goes to show who the real terrorists were in that conflict.

DEFTLEFTHAND

degsie wrote: »

I think this proves my point :rolleyes:

Do you have a Planters surname as well?

getzls

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Prisoner authorities in Long Kesh were notorious scumbags

And you know this because you were there?

Tramps Like Us

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Lessons? How do you mean?

Each block would have a designated Irish language teacher. At a set time they'd have an Irish class which consisted of the teacher yelling down the block from his cell to the others who'd yell back etc in order to learn the language

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

As mental as this sounds. The conditions for prisoners wasn't that bad. I think there would have been real solidarity and a very strong sense that the other prisoners had your back literally. You were part of a 'gang' (IRA) that could and did murder wardens if you needed them killed. I'm thinking this as a contrast compared to South Africa (get raped or die), the US where your only chance of survival is to enter a violent race war or Russia where you're sent to Siberia and put in a box on your own.

I'm not trying to downplay how tough it was or is, just pointing out how mentally it would be less bad for Republican prisoners, you've got a kinda us vrs. them thing, "we're political prisoners and we are all fighting this system together".

Christ this hangover is making me extra mental today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLkRA2pdBdE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyVmoCWIOrg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YN2j07UfGaI

Tramps Like Us

getzls wrote: »

And you know this because you were there?

Ask anyone who had the misfortune to be in there or have visited someone - its well established that the guards etc were pricks and abused the prisoners - read any book about it

Tramps Like Us

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

As mental as this sounds. The conditions for prisoners wasn't that bad. I think there would have been real solidarity and a very strong sense that the other prisoners had your back literally. You were part of a 'gang' (IRA) that could and did murder wardens if you needed them killed. I'm thinking this as a contrast compared to South Africa (get raped or die), the US where your only chance of survival is to enter a violent race war or Russia where you're sent to Siberia and put in a box on your own.

I'm not trying to downplay how tough it was or is, just pointing out how mentally it would be less bad for Republican prisoners, you've got a kinda us vrs. them thing, "we're political prisoners and we are all fighting this system together".

Christ this hangover is making me extra mental today.

They were locked up pretty much 24/7 with only a blanket in horrendous conditions and they watched friends die on hunger strike - it was very bad.

As for other prisoners "having your back" that was not the case, there was no free association (except at mass) and the guards in riot gear would gang up on a couple of prisoners in their cell

It was a really horrible regime.

The film "Hunger" is quite accurate.

getzls

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Ask anyone who had the misfortune to be in there or have visited someone - its well established that the guards etc were pricks and abused the prisoners - read any book about it

Recommend me an impartial one and i may have a look.

Not one by Gerry Kelly and Co.:cool:

El Weirdo

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Prisoner authorities in Long Kesh were notorious scumbags

getzls wrote: »

And you know this because you were there?

no·to·ri·ous

[noh-tawr-ee-uh s, -tohr-, nuh-]

adjective

1. widely and unfavorably known: a notorious gambler. Synonyms: infamous, egregious, outrageous, arrant, flagrant, disreputable.

2. publicly or generally known, as for a particular trait: a newspaper that is notorious for its sensationalism. Synonyms: notable, renowned, celebrated, prominent, conspicuous, famous, widely known.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/notorious

Carlos Orange

MonsterCookie wrote: »

Title refers to a ban and the article implies that it wasn't tolerated.

Article titles aren't exactly famous for being true.

Tramps Like Us

getzls wrote: »

Recommend me an impartial one and i may have a look.

Not one by Gerry Kelly and Co.:cool:

David Beresford not good enough for you?

martinedwards

but surely people who were clearly innocent of any wrong would have stuck rigidly to the "no Irish" rules and would have only ever have spoken in Home counties English accents?

no?

ah well, back to the past then

DEFTLEFTHAND

They chose that, they'd decent facilities available to them before they began acting up.

The Loyalists respected Sands. Anybody who felt that strong for a cause that he gave his life for deserves respect, even if ideologies differ.

RandomName2

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

They were locked up pretty much 24/7 with only a blanket in horrendous conditions and they watched friends die on hunger strike - it was very bad.

As for other prisoners "having your back" that was not the case, there was no free association (except at mass) and the guards in riot gear would gang up on a couple of prisoners in their cell

It was a really horrible regime.

The film "Hunger" is quite accurate.

The conditions were alright by prison standards (what do you expect, it's a prison?) - but that wasn't their main gripe. Their main gripe was that they were imprisoned as criminals, not as soldiers, and as such were prepared to make their own conditions significantly worse in protest at their not being considered soldiers (hunger strikes, dirty protests, etc)

Red Kev

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

They did converse in Irish on the blocks anyway. They had lessons and such too, shouted from the cells.

Prisoner authorities in Long Kesh were notorious scumbags

They had several methods of covert communication, speaking Irish, tapping out messages on the heating pipes, writing them on cigarette paper which they hid inside themselves and passed around.

Nothing new, prisoners everywhere, be it the POW's in camps in wars, political ones in gulags, concentration camps etc have always showed massive ingenuity. You could also read about ingenious solutions for communicating from the other side of the Berlin Wall, Warsaw Ghettos etc.

Jake Rugby Walrus666

The idea of speaking irish was that the POs couldn't understand so you had your own secret language. The IRA copied this off irish young lads talking with foreign girls on sun holidays.