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Child Item

What do I do? 12 yr old has lied and deceived me.

Shark

Hi all. I'm looking for any advise or suggestions or help with my situation. This is a long one so please bear with me.

A couple of weeks ago my son comes in from school and tells me that his class are going on a Christmas trip. Then last week before heading out the door to school he tells me that he needs the money for the trip today. I asked him for the information slip and permission form that the teacher would normally send home and he said he didn't get one. He showed me €8 which was his own pocket money and asked me for the rest €7 to make it €15 in total. So I gave it to him and off he went.

Monday morning he gets up and tells me he is going on his school trip today! I was surprised as he hadn't mentioned it before and again I hadn't got a note from school. He said the teacher never gave out any notes about it. Although I thought it was a little odd, I believed him and did him up a large packed lunch and gave him another €5 spending money.

He comes in Monday after school and I asked him about the trip. He told me he made a mistake and it was on Wednesday but he forgot his permission form. I told him to hang onto his spending money and make sure he brought the permission form home The next day so I could sign it.

So in he comes today and I asked for the permission form and he said his teacher said he doesn't need one. Then he mentioned something about the trip costing €9!!! Straight away I questioned him about the €15 he told me he needed the week before for his trip. He started crying and denying that he ever said the trip was €15. I then asked where the €5 spending money was and he said he left it in school at first. This went on for a while with different story's coming out and he was getting caught up as he was telling lies.

Bottom line and the truth that was eventually came out and here it is:
He knew he only needed €9 for the trip but asked me for €15. He spent the €15 on sweets and on Monday used the €5 I gave him along with €4 of his own money to actually pay for the trip.

I am so disappointed in him and just so upset that he would do this. He only ever has to ask for anything that he needs and depending on how much he needed might be asked to do jobs around the house to help earn it.

As punishment I have removed his xbox (which he adores) and will be going to see his teacher in the morning to let him know that my son is not to go on the trip. He has also been given a very stern talking to and sent to his room for the evening.

I know I should have been more on the ball about the permission form as I don't think they can go on trips without it. I'm kicking myself for not quizzing him more on it and insisting he brings it home before giving him any money. But thenI trusted him and I never thought he do this.

I know it's only a small amount of money but thats not the point. I feel he effectively stole from me and lied to me.

Is this too much punishment or not enough?
What else could I do?
Any helpful suggestions to help us all move on from this would be greatly appreciated.

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Kettleson

In honesty, I think you need to relax and get this in context. Take the X box of him this time. And leave it at that.

Sarah Bear

€15 is a lot to spend on sweets would it be possible that someone in school is perhaps bullying him to give him money? Just a thought

Kettleson

Sarah Bear wrote: »

€15 is a lot to spend on sweets would it be possible that someone in school is perhaps bullying him to give him money? Just a thought

Bullying? You're kidding. If you want to go down the alarmist line, you should also consider booze, fags, hash and speed. I'm not kidding by the way.

What if he's saving up for a Christmas present for his parents? Take the x box away for a couple of nights and keep an eye on it, and relax.

deadybai

yeah your lucky that it was only sweets and not drugs or fags.

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

In honesty, I think you need to relax and get this in context. Take the X box of him this time. And leave it at that.

Really? I don't think I can relax about lying and deceiving money from me. He knew the trip was only €9 and yet told me it was €15. That is not just being an opportunist, that was thought out blatant lies. I know it's not a lot of money involved but it's the principle of it. He knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway. I won't reward this behavior by allowing him to go on the trip. Thanks for your input all the same.

Sarah Bear wrote: »

€15 is a lot to spend on sweets would it be possible that someone in school is perhaps bullying him to give him money? Just a thought

That thought did occur to me as he was bullied in the past. I have asked him repeatedly if this was the case and he said it's not. I would believe him as he is very good at letting me know if there is anyone bothering him.

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

Bullying? You're kidding. If you want to go down the alarmist line, you should also consider booze, fags, hash and speed. I'm not kidding by the way.

What if he's saving up for a Christmas present for his parents? Take the x box away for a couple of nights and keep an eye on it, and relax.

Believe me I had that thought too. Only about the cigarettes though. He said he was spending the money over a number days on his way home from school then putting the wrappers in the bin so I wouldn't see them.

He wasn't saving for a present, he told me he spent the lot on sweets.

Nonoperational

Sometimes lads do that, and there's no particular reason for it. It can be a case of waking up and thinking that he all of a sudden has a genius way of getting a few extra euro. It's usually quite innocent and hopefully it will be lesson learned. I'd be on the look out for more serious things like bullying or smoking, but if your happy there's nothing like that going on, then a good talking to and a few days without the x-box sounds spot on severity wise. If it happens again then you may have to give it more thought.

Shark

Thanks nonoperational. I really hope it's not going to lead to anymore problems. We had a couple of hours to calm dawn and when came down for dinner we had another chat with him. He has apologised and does seem genuinely sorry and understands what he done was wrong. I'll admit I was furious when it all came out earlier as I never would have thought he would ever do such a thing. I will be keeping a much closer eye on him.

Kettleson

Shark wrote: »

Really? I don't think I can relax about lying and deceiving money from me. He knew the trip was only €9 and yet told me it was €15. That is not just being an opportunist, that was thought out blatant lies. I know it's not a lot of money involved but it's the principle of it. He knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway. I won't reward this behavior by allowing him to go on the trip. Thanks for your input all the same.

That thought did occur to me as he was bullied in the past. I have asked him repeatedly if this was the case and he said it's not. I would believe him as he is very good at letting me know if there is anyone bothering him.

So you ask for advice and chose not to take consider it? Ok. I see you have now calmed down. That's good.

It's not like he robbed 100 from your purse/wallet. These years are crucial when building relationships between teenagers and parents. If you go in gung-ho you can cause a lot of irreparable damage that you won't be able to fix.

The_Pretender

I think that's a bit harsh to be honest. Take away the xbox, but keeping him off the school trip is going have a bigger impact with it most likely being in someway educational

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

So you ask for advice and chose not to take consider it? Ok. I see you have now calmed down. That's good.

It's not like he robbed 100 from your purse/wallet. These years are crucial when building relationships between teenagers and parents. If you go in gung-ho you can cause a lot of irreparable damage that you won't be able to fix.

It's not that I haven't considered the advice, I have. And I'll be very honest and say that I do feel guilty about not letting him go on it but I do think if I let him go, it may send a message that it's ok to do what he did and still get to go on his trip.

With regards to building relationships I totally agree and I may not have handled myself as well as I should have at first but after we had a bit of time away from each other, we did then have a much better talk about it.

Joshycat

Kettleson wrote: »

So you ask for advice and chose not to take consider it? Ok. I see you have now calmed down. That's good.

It's not like he robbed 100 from your purse/wallet. These years are crucial when building relationships between teenagers and parents. If you go in gung-ho you can cause a lot of irreparable damage that you won't be able to fix.

Yes but if this incident is not dealt with it could lead to large sums being robbed

olddear

Most children tell lies, big and small. Ask your son why he needed to lie and if he wanted money so bad why did he not ask you for it. Maybe he could do a few chores around the house and get extra money for this. He isn't the first child to tell his parents a lie. Don't over do the punishment. You have dealt with it, so shake hands and give them a hug and say please do not lie to you again as it really upset you. They are only 12. It's not nice when children lie to their parents but that's what happens and you are not the first parent for this to happen to. There are worse things that they could have done. They have had their punishment so leave it at that otherwise there will be a lot of resentment. Hopefully this will be the worst thing that your child will do. They grow up fast. Hope it works out all right for you.

Kettleson

Joshycat wrote: »

Yes but if this incident is not dealt with it could lead to large sums being robbed

I agree. But I advised getting it in context. The OP posted 11 paragraphs of anguished writing. That to me would suggest that something was a bit unbalanced and I was suggesting not to do anything too reactionary.

The child has already been in tears and expressed remorse, but the OP expressed an intention to go into the school and cause further embarrassment and upset by way of punishment, as well as not allowing the child to go on the Christmas trip. That's unhinged behaviour in my opinion.

freshpopcorn

Children and adults lie every day of the week. It's important that he understands lying is wrong. He has apologized to you so I think ye should have a chat about it and keep the x-box for a few more days but I would leave him go on the school trip.

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

I agree. But I advised getting it in context. The OP posted 11 paragraphs of anguished writing. That to me would suggest that something was a bit unbalanced and I was suggesting not to do anything too reactionary.

The child has already been in tears and expressed remorse, but the OP expressed an intention to go into the school and cause further embarrassment and upset by way of punishment, as well as not allowing the child to go on the Christmas trip. That's unhinged behaviour in my opinion.

Hold a second, I came here looking for advise about my child's behavior and if it's something I should be worried about and now you are saying I'm "unhinged"? Do you even know what that word means? There is nothing wrong with my mental health. I think you are well out of line making comments like that.

I never said anything about speaking to his teacher to embarrass him, but the teacher would need some sort of explanation as to why he can't go and it would be done very discreetly.

I'm a very concerned parent that wants the best for my children. He is my eldest child and we are moving into a new phase of his life which I know will be challenging at times. I might not always get it right but that doesn't mean I'm psychotic.

Kettleson

un·hinged [uhn-hinjd] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having no hinge or hinges, or with the hinges removed: an unhinged gate.
2.
unsettled, disordered, or distraught

See 2. Who mentioned psychotic?

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

un·hinged [uhn-hinjd] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having no hinge or hinges, or with the hinges removed: an unhinged gate.
2.
unsettled, disordered, or distraught

See 2. Who mentioned psychotic?

Source from the Collins dictionary.

unhinged
If you describe someone's behaviour or performance as unhinged, you are critical of it because it seems wild and uncontrollable. (JOURNALISM) adj
(disapproval) The phrase `yeah yeah yeah' can rarely have been delivered with so much unhinged passion.
Translation English - Cobuild Collins Dictionary Suggest a new translation / definition.
Collins
unhinge ( unhinges 3rd person present) ( unhinging present participle) ( unhinged past tense & past participle ) If you say that an experience has unhinged someone, you mean that it has affected them so deeply that they have become mentally ill. verb
The stress of war temporarily unhinged him. V n
♦ unhinged adj
...feelings that make you feel completely unhinged and crazy.

unhinged
If you describe someone's behaviour or performance as unhinged, you are critical of it because it seems wild and uncontrollable. (JOURNALISM) adj
(disapproval) The phrase `yeah yeah yeah' can rarely have been delivered with so much unhinged passion.

Kettleson

I prefer my reference. Read into it what you may. You were looking for advice, I gave you my opinion and responded to another post.

The_Pretender

Shark wrote: »

Hold a second, I came here looking for advise about my child's behavior and if it's something I should be worried about

No, there's nothing to be worried about. He codded you out of €6 extra but ended up spending all €15 on sweets. It happens, he's 12.

I understand you have his best interests at heart, but don't be too hard on him. Speaking from experience, one of my parents was very overbearing when I was around his age, and due to it it's seriously damaged our relationship. For this situation, I'd just leave it at taking away the xbox for a few days. If you deprive him the school trip, he'll never forget, I can promise you that much.

In the mind of a parent they think by coming down hard on the child, the child will know what happens if they do it again. This may work with children under 10, but by age 12 they're getting their first glimpse of proper freedom. I assume he'll probably be in secondary next year! It doesn't work like that with an older child though. You come down too hard on him, he'll want to get his own back and instead he'll try ways of doing wrong without you finding out. It'll have the reverse effect. He may even start to resent you for being so overbearing.

You need to start showing him that you realise he's getting older, but what he did was wrong and you're disappointed in him. Treat him like a 12 year old, not a 5 year old. Don't treat him like a baby and go up telling his teacher that he's been a bad boy and can't go on the trip.

freshpopcorn

You are looking for advise OP.
People here understand that your upset.
Can you ever remember lying as a child/adult?
What your son did was wrong but myself and some of the other posters here think your punishment is a bit harsh. Especially with it being Christmas week.
You should talk to him and make him understand that it's wrong but you should allow him to go on the trip. Harsh punishments don't always get good results.

anncoates

You're right to punish him but I'd probably just take the XBox and leave it at that but your call.

What he did was wrong but most of us did it at some stage so while not letting him off lightly, I'd not be overly stressed about it.

Kettleson

I made my comments in good faith and in the best interest of both you and your child, whether you believe that or not is up to you.

There are loads of writings out there., but I'll chose this one to summarise my opinion..

"....punishment undermines your relationship with your child, makes kids feel worse about themselves (which makes them act worse) and sabotages your child's development of self-discipline".

And with that I'm done.

anncoates

Kettleson wrote: »

un·hinged [uhn-hinjd] Show IPA
adjective
1.
having no hinge or hinges, or with the hinges removed: an unhinged gate.
2.
unsettled, disordered, or distraught

See 2. Who mentioned psychotic?

Calling it unhinged is a little OTT and disrespectful.

We're all parents here just trying to do the best we can.

Kettleson

anncoates wrote: »

Calling it unhinged is a little OTT and disrespectful.

We're all parents here just trying to do the best we can.

OK, don't dwell too much on semantics. Shark, I offer my apologise for using the word unhinged. No offence intended.

Parenting can be "maddening" at times wouldn't you agree?

Shark

Kettleson wrote: »

I prefer my reference. Read into it what you may. You were looking for advice, I gave you my opinion and responded to another post.

That's your choice. There are a number of different meanings and references to what "unhinged" means and we'll have to agree to disagree.

The_Pretender wrote: »

No, there's nothing to be worried about. He codded you out of €6 extra but ended up spending all €15 on sweets. It happens, he's 12.

I understand you have his best interests at heart, but don't be too hard on him. Speaking from experience, one of my parents was very overbearing when I was around his age, and due to it it's seriously damaged our relationship. For this situation, I'd just leave it at taking away the xbox for a few days. If you deprive him the school trip, he'll never forget, I can promise you that much.

In the mind of a parent they think by coming down hard on the child, the child will know what happens if they do it again. This may work with children under 10, but by age 12 they're getting their first glimpse of proper freedom. I assume he'll probably be in secondary next year! It doesn't work like that with an older child though. You come down too hard on him, he'll want to get his own back and instead he'll try ways of doing wrong without you finding out. It'll have the reverse effect. He may even start to resent you for being so overbearing.

You need to start showing him that you realise he's getting older, but what he did was wrong and you're disappointed in him. Treat him like a 12 year old, not a 5 year old. Don't treat him like a baby and go up telling his teacher that he's been a bad boy and can't go on the trip.

I don't see it as "telling tales" and had never intended on telling the teacher what had actually happened but just something along the lines of recent behavior has not been acceptable etc without actually going into details. If he can't go on the trip the teacher will need some sort of explanation, that is why I have to go to the school. I'm actually in 2 minds about the trip now.

I also said it wasn't about the actual money, I know it's not a lot, it's about the deceit and the fact that he knew what he was doing was wrong but did it anyway.

My son knows he can always come to us for anything and apart from this has always done. If it was money he needed depending on how much it was he may be asked to do chores around the house to earn it. This is why it is upsetting for me. He didn't have to behave like he did.

Cs2

any chance he is being bullied
and the money taken off him or is he buying them for someone else
chores are a great incentive to receive pocket money
does he receive pocket money?

he should be left go on his trip or you could end up with a very sad and emotion child
but make him work for it after

i would feel gutted as well but i would try and think outside the box as well

you should speak to a liason offier in the school and maybe get a teacher to keep as eye on
him. not everything is personal.

mother of 3

1 asd dyspraxic
1 dyspraxic
1 adhd

i have learnt not to jump in with both feet

doesnt stop me screaming at them though

Kettleson

"He didn't have to behave like he did"....

No really, I offer my general concerns on your final comment here.

It's OK coming onto a computer to let of steam and seek a bit or parental friendship and sharing. But, I am in total disagreement with your last comment. He's 12!

Shark

Yes he is 12 and he knows the difference between right and wrong. Now that's not to say he is a model child or anything. Of course he not. I find what he done to be unacceptable especially as he had no need to do it. He knew it was wrong.

DTA338

You are making a mountain out of a molehill. He lied to the tune of six euro. Hardly crime of the century.

You seem like the overbearing, bubble wrapping, mollycoddler type of parent (based on what I have read in your posts) and I promise he will hate you for it. I am not condoning his behaviour but your reaction is hardly fair either.
And this ''its the fact that he lied'' argument does not fly. He is 12. You are a grown woman. Is it really so emotionally crippling that he told you a lie? If it is I would start looking for help because in 3 - 4 years time you will not know what hit you.

He is getting to the age where he will push his luck. He is also at the age where his moral compass will be finding its direction. If you come down on him like a ton of bricks on this small thing he will not forget it. I promise you that.

Going to see his teacher is overkill. Let him go on his trip. Why punish him with grounding, Xbox removal and no trip? That's double jeopardy. Its not fair on him.

To quote Mrs. Brown ''All children rob.''

I had parents who used similar methods to yourself and they ruined my childhood and I now hate them. So chill out and stop over-thinking it.