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Gerry Adams : Terrorist or Freedom Fighter?

coolhull

You decide. . . .

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tippspur

tdv123 wrote: »

Neither.

Most real Republicans these days regard him as a sellout.

Martin McGuinness was giving a speech at the Bloody Sunday commemoration a few years ago & half the crowd walked away once he started speaking.

SF is viewed as just another middle class nationalist party among Republicans.

The IRA hasn't gone away and Republican groups are under no illusions of a quick British withdrawal their it for the long haul. Their just waiting for the British to make another blunder like Bloody Sunday or Falls curfew.

Oh right, they took the path of peace so their the bad people,and you tell me the IRA are not gone away and are ready to pounce if the Brits make one wrong move,give me a break FFS.

Oprahs_Vagina

An estimated 10,000 people passed through the ranks of the PIRA over it's 25 - 30 year existence.

Now I'm just taking a wild guess here, but I imagine most of those were disillusioned young, catholic nationalists from the likes of areas such as Bogside, Ardoyne, Falls Road, Divis flats etc.

So while the PIRA did carry out some undoubtedly mindless atrocities(Kingsmill, Enniskillen, La Mon restaurant), I seriously doubt that the vast majority of those ten or so thousand member's purpose was to maim and kill everyone at will. That's to say even if Gerry was a member at some stage (couldn't give a fiddler's fart really, considering his family history and hometown) does not make him complicit in planning or involvement in terrorist atrocities.

The parallel that has been drawn between Mandela and Adams is justified, where Mandela was allegedly just targeting economic infrastructure, one could say he would have been complicit in oh I dunno ... the Church Street bombing in 1983 ?? Him being a member AND co-founder of the ANC's military wing.
Ah but sure Nelson was black, which makes it a completely different justification altogether ??

At this stage, I don't know why Gerry should entertain the Lilt man's accusations at his Fine Gael tea party last year of membership and the RTE elites, the likes of Tubridy and Gaybo spinelessly ambushing him from their southern armchairs in Donnybrook.

At the end of the day he's yet to give final clarity on it, I'm not exactly a big republican myself, however, he's demonstrated a lot more backbone than the willfully ignorant Guilty cohort and free staters down here in the south.

tdv123

tippspur wrote: »

Oh right, they took the path of peace so their the bad people,and you tell me the IRA are not gone away and are ready to pounce if the Brits make one wrong move,give me a break FFS.

Their not bad people for making peace. Their bad for running a 30 year war which achieved little at best & nothing at worse.

Republicans are sick & tired of the rhetoric of Adams & McGuinnes & starting realize the peace process won't deliver Republican objectives.

That's right they haven't gone away, masserene barracks shooting ring any bells? The IRA's now have more members than when the Provos were formed in the 69 split. What they really want is the BA back on the streets so they have clear targets.

WilyCoyote

tdv123 wrote: »

Their not bad people for making peace. Their bad for running a 30 year war which achieved little at best & nothing at worse.

Republicans are sick & tired of the rhetoric of Adams & McGuinnes & starting realize the peace process won't deliver Republican objectives.

That's right they haven't masserene barracks shooting ring any bells? The IRA's now have more members than when the Provos were formed in the 69 split. What they really want is the BA back on the streets so they have clear targets.

A 30 year war? More like 50. And it achieved civil rights for the minority. Do you not like that picture?

tdv123

WilyCoyote wrote: »

A 30 year war? More like 50. And it achieved civil rights for the minority. Do you not like that picture?

3,500 dead (majority civilians) & 50,000 injured for civil rights? Yeah that's not really anything to boast about it. The PIRA's goal was reunification & they gave up on it.

Ruari O'Briadgh was clearly right in everything e said in the 86 SF split.

WilyCoyote

tdv123 wrote: »

3,500 dead (majority civilians) & 50,000 injured for civil rights? Yeah that's not really anything to boast about it. The PIRA's goal was reunification & they gave up on it.

Ruari O'Briadgh was clearly right in everything e said in the 86 SF split.

It achieved civil rights for the beleaguered Nationalist population.
That is what started the present Troubles.
Or would you rather revert to the old days when the Nationalist population were bullied by officialdom, given inferior housing, few jobs and a police force that was more like the TonTon Macoutes?

Banjo String

tdv123 wrote: »

Their not bad people for making peace. Their bad for running a 30 year war which achieved little at best & nothing at worse.

Republicans are sick & tired of the rhetoric of Adams & McGuinnes & starting realize the peace process won't deliver Republican objectives.

That's right they haven't gone away, masserene barracks shooting ring any bells? The IRA's now have more members than when the Provos were formed in the 69 split. What they really want is the BA back on the streets so they have clear targets.

Go to bed.

padma

Gerry Adams given the honour of being part of the coffin honour guard in mandela's final farewell speaks volumes of how closely tied the ANC and Sinn Fein have been for decades.

As a politician Gerry Adams is a stand out politician more than any other Irish politician on the world stage.

The likes of Kenny and Gilmores and rtes agenda in propaganda against Gerry Adams is quite damaging towards the peace process. The fact of the matter is people who support Sinn Fein in Ireland is a very high percentage of the whole Islands population. This makes the state worried and has done for the past few decades and even since the foundation of the current partition.

Richard Hillman

padma wrote: »

Gerry Adams given the honour of being part of the coffin honour guard in mandela's final farewell speaks volumes of how closely tied the ANC and Sinn Fein have been for decades.

As a politician Gerry Adams is a stand out politician more than any other Irish politician on the world stage.

The likes of Kenny and Gilmores and rtes agenda in propaganda against Gerry Adams is quite damaging towards the peace process. The fact of the matter is people who support Sinn Fein in Ireland is a very high percentage of the whole Islands population. This makes the state worried and has done for the past few decades and even since the foundation of the current partition.

Oh ffs :pac:

padma

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Oh ffs :pac:

Problem?

tdv123

WilyCoyote wrote: »

It achieved civil rights for the beleaguered Nationalist population.
That is what started the present Troubles.
Or would you rather revert to the old days when the Nationalist population were bullied by officialdom, given inferior housing, few jobs and a police force that was more like the TonTon Macoutes?

My problem isn't what it did achieve it's what it didn't achieve. They got most of that stuff pretty quickly the old Stormont was gone by 72 & reforms were made. Why stop in 97? why not go the whole way & push on for a United Ireland?

Fr. Ned

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Oh ffs :pac:

What?
Gerry Adams was part of the guard of honour and RTE don't even mention his name.
Are you denying that there is a sustained media attack on Adams?

dxhound2005

padma wrote: »

Gerry Adams given the honour of being part of the coffin honour guard in mandela's final farewell speaks volumes of how closely tied the ANC and Sinn Fein have been for decades.

As a politician Gerry Adams is a stand out politician more than any other Irish politician on the world stage.

The likes of Kenny and Gilmores and rtes agenda in propaganda against Gerry Adams is quite damaging towards the peace process. The fact of the matter is people who support Sinn Fein in Ireland is a very high percentage of the whole Islands population. This makes the state worried and has done for the past few decades and even since the foundation of the current partition.

He's not even a stand out politician in Louth. Not that he bothers to grace us with his presence very often.

dxhound2005

Fr. Ned wrote: »

What?
Gerry Adams was part of the guard of honour and RTE don't even mention his name.
Are you denying that there is a sustained media attack on Adams?

Someone in RTE is going to be in trouble for breaking the censorship.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1214/492849-mandela-adams/

Fr. Ned

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Someone in RTE is going to be in trouble for breaking the censorship.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1214/492849-mandela-adams/

Whoops...another one for the dole office on Monday.....

Fr. Ned

dxhound2005 wrote: »

He's not even a stand out politician in Louth. Not that he bothers to grace us with his presence very often.

Stick with the likes of Kirk.
He and his fellow travellers have the interests of the country at heart...LOL.

dxhound2005

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Stick with the likes of Kirk.
He and his fellow travellers have the interests of the country at heart...LOL.

Seamus has some interesting connections too.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/opposition-can-expect-fair-play-from-the-former-top-footballer-26573463.html

He has a family connection to prominent South Armagh republican Thomas 'Slab' Murphy through his brother Johnny, who is married to Mr Murphy's sister Ann.

timthumbni

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Nobody (AFAIK) has questioned your intelligence or lack of.
Your final sentence is the wishful thinking of a deluded personality

The war is over and Britain has f***** up once again

Amazing that Cameron thought Mandela a terrorist a few years back and last week lauded him. What changed his mind? Dementia? Or just the natural Britishness of speaking out of both sides of the mouth simultaneously.

Yeah because that's natural Britishness indeed..... I bet you think the British ate the forbidden apple in Eden as well Ffs. Dem bloody Brits ate our apple, joe.....

The war is over for some. If you look at last nights bomb in Belfast then you will see that some Irish republicans are still trying to keep it going by attempting to kill children, women and men in Belfast.

What has Britain f£&&&d up once again exactly?????

Axel Lamp

Terrorist. Lying filthy scumbag terrorist too.

Hannibal

Fr. Ned wrote: »

What?
Gerry Adams was part of the guard of honour and RTE don't even mention his name.
Are you denying that there is a sustained media attack on Adams?

I guarantee you that if Bono was part of the guard of honour we wouldn't hear the end of it. Gerry Adams gets swept under the carpet because it will embarass the media particularly RTE and Independent and it will also embarass our government for all the praise they gave Mandela yet it's Gerry Adams that represents Ireland and not any of them. Very few people in Ireland appreciate or see the bigger picture of Adams as a republican leader has achieved here and a lot of other politicians are jealous because Adams' legacy will live on for longer than theirs.

dxhound2005

Hannibal wrote: »

I guarantee you that if Bono was part of the guard of honour we wouldn't hear the end of it. Gerry Adams gets swept under the carpet because it will embarass the media particularly RTE and Independent and it will also embarass our government for all the praise they gave Mandela yet it's Gerry Adams that represents Ireland and not any of them. Very few people in Ireland appreciate or see the bigger picture of Adams as a republican leader has achieved here and a lot of other politicians are jealous because Adams' legacy will live on for longer than theirs.

He is not representing Ireland, it's not that sort of occasion. Our President represented the country (which Sinn Fein still does not recognise as being a legitimate state) at the official ceremony.

Fr. Ned

Axel Lamp wrote: »

Terrorist. Lying filthy scumbag terrorist too.

Very insightful and well researched post.

Phoebas

Hannibal wrote: »

Very few people in Ireland appreciate or see the bigger picture of Adams as a republican leader has achieved here and a lot of other politicians are jealous because Adams' legacy will live on for longer than theirs.

If very few of the Irish people can see or appreciate what he has achieved, isn't it possible that he just hasn't achieved as much as you think he has?
Or do you and your 'very few' have some special insight that is lost to the rest of us?

[Deleted User]

Fratton Fred wrote: »

How would you describe someone who detonates a bomb outside a McDonald's on a Saturday lunch time?

Explain to me how that protected Catholics?

While violence can't be condoned, do you think it's a co-incidence that Unionist became so much more amenable to power sharing, co-operation and dialogue AFTER the Troubles compared with before the Troubles?

Not to be triumphalist, but it was a long war of attrition, that made Unionists a lot less oppressive than they had been in up until the troubles.

Axel Lamp

Fr. Ned wrote: »

Very insightful and well researched post.

Nowhere in the opening post was a prerequisite for research and insight stated.

WilyCoyote

dxhound2005 wrote: »

He's not even a stand out politician in Louth. Not that he bothers to grace us with his presence very often.

Another FF voter feeling the heat?

LordSutch

Deleted User wrote: »

While violence can't be condoned, do you think it's a co-incidence that Unionist became so much more amenable to power sharing, co-operation and dialogue AFTER the Troubles compared with before the Troubles?

The two sides only came together after SF/IRA agreed to put their weapons beyond use, and from memory, the Republican side dragged their heels & made hard going of it until they finally gave up the gun & bomb in favour of trusting the ballot box 100%. Unionism & the SDLP led the way.

Deleted User wrote: »

Not to be triumphalist, but it was a long war of attrition, that made Unionists a lot less oppressive than they had been in up until the troubles.

And we now have a position where the PIRA have disappeared and Adams actually condemns 'current' bombings & shootings.
Who would have thought. The old buggar still maintains that the Troubles were a just cause, dirty ex Terrorist that he is

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

.................

And we now have a position where the PIRA have disappeared and Adams actually condemns 'current' bombings & shootings.
Who would have thought. The old buggar still maintains that the Troubles were a just cause,.............

And he's right.

It would seem others have far less problem with Gerry and the lads.
http://youtu.be/ZkFAeruvv4s

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

And he's right.

If your talking about "the Troubles were a just cause" He's bloody well not right, specially to the families of loved ones wont be around this Christmas courtesy of the Provo's. Adams is such a slimeball IMO.

Nodin

LordSutch wrote: »

He's bloody well not, specially to the families of loved ones wont be around this Christmas courtesy of the Provo's. ...

O but he is. That's why he's standing in an honour guard around Mandelas coffin instead of Trimble, Cameron, Major, Mallon and the rest.

War is a cruel business. It's a shame you don't have the same ire for those who caused it in the first place.