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Unhelpful 'gendering' of social issues

Amirani

Apparently all us men are at fault that rape still exists: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

"men must accept that most violent crimes perpetrated against women are by men, and that they have the power to stop this."

I'm sorry Una, but I'm in no better a position to stop rape than you are. I'm also no more responsible for its existence.

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Pawwed Rig

Update from Ombudsman

it does not appear to this Office that the article presented a possible breach of Principle 8 of the Code of Practice for Newspapers and Magazines.

Not really surprised to be honest

Sleepy

Surely you mean an update from the Ombudswoman?

Standman

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Update from Ombudsman

it does not appear to this Office that the article presented a possible breach of Principle 8 of the Code of Practice for Newspapers and Magazines.

Not really surprised to be honest

As much as I dislike the article, shouldn't she be allowed to write whatever shite she wants?

I don't really like the idea that just because you are offended by something you should attempt to get it retracted or the writer/press penalised by the ombudsman.

py2006

Standman wrote: »

As much as I dislike the article, shouldn't she be allowed to write whatever shite she wants?

I don't really like the idea that just because you are offended by something you should attempt to get it retracted or the writer/press penalised by the ombudsman.

Its probably more on principle. Other way around blah blah blah. You know the story.

Standman

py2006 wrote: »

Its probably more on principle. Other way around blah blah blah. You know the story.

Yea I can understand that, but two wrongs don't make a right as they say.

Pawwed Rig

Standman wrote: »

As much as I dislike the article, shouldn't she be allowed to write whatever shite she wants?

No she shouldn't. That is why we have limits in a society on what people can and cannot say. Were she to be stating a factual argument then I would agree with you but this article is just a rant and never deserved to see the light of day in a respectable publication.

Standman

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

No she shouldn't. That is why we have limits in a society on what people can and cannot say. Were she to be stating a factual argument then I would agree with you but this article is just a rant and never deserved to see the light of day in a respectable publication.

There are plenty of rant-like pieces in newspapers all the time, it's allowed. The editor makes decisions on what articles to publish, if he wants to publish drivel such as this then he can go on ahead. If it brings the respectability of the newspaper down then it's on him.

Pawwed Rig

I agree with you to an extent and if this was in the Herald or the Star I doubt anyone here would have been too upset about the article as it would have been at home there. The issue arises where the so called paper of record prints this kind of stuff. This is the paper that when history is being written in a couple of hundred years time will be one of the dominant sources. This is also the paper that is read by the policy makers in this country who may or may not be bright enough to realise this is anything other than a rant.

I personally think this article crosses a line and is just spewing hatred.

clairefontaine

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I agree with you to an extent and if this was in the Herald or the Star I doubt anyone here would have been too upset about the article as it would have been at home there. The issue arises where the so called paper of record prints this kind of stuff. This is the paper that when history is being written in a couple of hundred years time will be one of the dominant sources. This is also the paper that is read by the policy makers in this country who may or may not be bright enough to realise this is anything other than a rant.

I personally think this article crosses a line and is just spewing hatred.

Freedom of the press should be absolute, but yes this is the paper of record and it should be called out for what it is, liberal hate speech.

Pawwed Rig

Sleepy wrote: »

Surely you mean an update from the Ombudswoman?

Indeed. He/she had a gender neutral name so not sure which it was.
Anyway the appeal is in but I think I am wasting my time at this point given how quick they were to dismiss the issue first time around.

clairefontaine wrote: »

Freedom of the press should be absolute.

We will agree to differ there. I don't think freedom of the press should be absolute and there is no country in the world where it is absolute.

um7y1h83ge06nx

If freedom of the press was absolute there would be nothing stopping journalists from encouraging readers to riot against the government or kill foreigners for instance.

I definitely agree that people should be entitled to express opinion but lazy stereotyping of a group in order to paint that group in a bad light is wrong. In fairness if Una Mullally wrong that article as a post here on a section of Boards she would probably get at least a warning from a Mod.

The Corinthian

Are we discussing freedom of the press or the biases in that press, with regards to gender, regardless of how free it is?

Amirani

Another attack on men from Una Mullally: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/men-need-to-step-up-to-their-role-in-feminism-4-0-1.1639859

Pure hypocritical drivel.

GalwayGuy2

I find it hard to believe she's serious.

I read the article and there is absolutely zero substance in it. At all.

Although, this quote is interesting.

He replied, with a bit of a grin, “No comment.” How outrageous. Feminism is about equality. Would a person on television be so happy to reply “No comment” if they were asked whether racism was okay, or whether people should be persecuted for their religious beliefs? Why won’t men embrace feminism when it benefits all of us? Women can do only so much leaning in while men stand their ground with arms folded in our direction. Women: make your new year’s resolution to keep leaning in. Men: lean out.

Pawwed Rig

To summarize for those who have better things to do than read this tripe, The Sun posted an article criticising Nigella Lawson for hiring a cleaner. Una doesn't like this.
The Sun is normally such a bastion of quality jornalism:rolleyes:

clairefontaine

NiallSparky wrote: »

Another attack on men from Una Mullally: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/men-need-to-step-up-to-their-role-in-feminism-4-0-1.1639859

Pure hypocritical drivel.

Sorry I know this is slightly OT, but she uses the word "bloody." Isn't that not an ok word to use in high standard journalistic pieces?

And hiring help is not a no no for women, but when you have built a career on being a domestic goddess, christened yourself a domestic goddess, you will be judged in a different realm. The pit is not far from the pedestal.

py2006

Sweet lord, her sentence structure and punctuation usage is appalling.

Pawwed Rig

py2006 wrote: »

Sweet lord, her sentence structure and punctuation usage is appalling.

The second page especially. I had to re read it a few times to figure out wtf she is on about. That said when I figured out what she meant it would seem her message is that men in positions of power should be more equal in their promotion policies which I could find no issue with.

That said and to give the Irish Times a bit of credit there was a really good article on Saturday which some of the more regular posters here will remember we discussed a while back on the 'turn out the red light' campaign by Finola Meredith. Can't find a link at the moment but will keep looking

py2006

Why won’t men embrace feminism when it benefits all of us?

Oh where do we start? :rolleyes:

py2006

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The second page especially. I had to re read it a few times to figure out wtf she is on about.

There are only two full stops in the second paragraph!

Carlos Orange

Must remember to stay strong and not give drivel pageviews.

jellyboy

thought this link was worthy of a post

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530741/Theres-no-room-MANLY-Controversial-feminist-writer-Camille-Paglia-speaks-against-loss-masculine-virtues-negative-impact-society.html

it resonated on a few levels ,not all her views i agree with ..

donfers

Her articles make her out to be a bit dim in my view at least, and I don't say that because she is a woman, I say that because I think she's a bit dim

sometimes things just are Una, it's not always because he is a man and she is a woman that stuff happens, sometimes it just happens because that's the way it is

wonderfullife

jellyboy wrote: »

thought this link was worthy of a post

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530741/Theres-no-room-MANLY-Controversial-feminist-writer-Camille-Paglia-speaks-against-loss-masculine-virtues-negative-impact-society.html

it resonated on a few levels ,not all her views i agree with ..

Not quite sure how necessary it is to have served in the Army to be good at banking....

Mind you, given how things have turned out i wouldn't be averse to sending some of them off to peace-keep in some hell-hole!!

Wibbs

py2006 wrote: »

Oh where do we start? :rolleyes:

Indeed. Christ what a... Typical example of the wilder end of Jezobel stylee "feminism" given far too much airtime and page clicks. This has the effect of it looking more mainstream than it actually is. Of course the editors love this kind of daftness as the ire factor gets bums on seats, but scarily the "writers' of such opinion pieces actually believe this kinda tripe. Then again some of this nonsense does get into the mainstream as cultural givens. EG the paygap, 1 in 4, divorce is harder on women blah blah.

Mister R

jellyboy wrote: »

thought this link was worthy of a post

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530741/Theres-no-room-MANLY-Controversial-feminist-writer-Camille-Paglia-speaks-against-loss-masculine-virtues-negative-impact-society.html

it resonated on a few levels ,not all her views i agree with ..

I agree with essentially none of this woman's tripe. This woman wants men to be like something out of the 1800s, her notions of strong manhood are one of the contributing factors to the high levels of male suicide since to be truly "manly" men feel they have to bottle up their issues. As I said she wants men to be like something from the 1800s with zero emotion but the ability to fight wars and drill for oil and hunt deer with their bare hands.

Also she claims to support gay rights but some of her praise of the gay community has been about how they are "all" sexually promiscuous and how that is "real manhood". All her alleged LGBT praise seems like veiled homophobia if anything.

She is a self-hating academic, even in that article she believes sports radio is where real men are in today's society, have you ever listened to some of the Americans who dial into sports radio shows.

The woman is a joke and starved for attention and only right wing outlets like Laura Ingraham would give her a platform. Men think this woman in on their side and she is if you're a grade A Neanderthal moron, but for a man who might have a brain or any level of emotion whatsoever she doesn't accept you as a man.

newport2

jellyboy wrote: »

thought this link was worthy of a post

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2530741/Theres-no-room-MANLY-Controversial-feminist-writer-Camille-Paglia-speaks-against-loss-masculine-virtues-negative-impact-society.html

it resonated on a few levels ,not all her views i agree with ..

The was a debate a short time ago discussing "Are men obsolete?" held publically by 4 women, Camille Paglia being one of them (imagine the uproar if a public debate was held amongst men discussing "Are women obsolete?"). It appears she was the only one of them who spoke any sense

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2014/01/02/time-men-are-obsolete-five-reasons-we-are-definitely-witnessing-end-m

GalwayGuy2

Indeed. Christ what a... Typical example of the wilder end of Jezobel stylee "feminism" given far too much airtime and page clicks. This has the effect of it looking more mainstream than it actually is. Of course the editors love this kind of daftness as the ire factor gets bums on seats, but scarily the "writers' of such opinion pieces actually believe this kinda tripe. Then again some of this nonsense does get into the mainstream as cultural givens. EG the paygap, 1 in 4, divorce is harder on women blah blah.

Hmmm, I think the fringe and mainstream are closer than people think. The mainstream seems to rely on the fringe to spread studies, media time, clicks, etc. The radical also relies on the mainstream for political legitimacy, and, to include the college academics, social legitimacy.

The problem is that the radical seem to be influencing the academic, and the academic the radical. Feminist theory are quite interesting, but the language used seems to be turning more and more radical. The studies are turning more politically driven and the lecturers more 'Evangelical.'

It's almost as if the studies that were used to sway public opinion, but may have been deeply flawed, have enraged both the radical and the mainstream feminism.

ConFurioso

RE Camilla P article, it's a pity that most of what she says is...well tripe, to say the least, as the article brought up the point of biological differences in the genders. It's something I think gets brushed under the carpet somewhat.

The Black Oil

Feminism 4.0? The stuff Una writes should lead to a 404 error.