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Do bus inspectors have to ID themselves?

bobbyss

Would be interested to know if anyone had experience of the following situation.

A bus, train or Luas inspector gets on the bus to check on your tickets which you give to him/her. Then you would like them to id themselves to you.

1. Can a passenger ask the said inspector to identify him/herself?
2. Is wearing the uniform in itself a valid identification?
3. If they simply give you their name, is that sufficient? (by the way, I think if a passenger does not have a ticket they ask for name and I think address and they check on this-I don't know how exactly)
4. Must they have on their person an id card and present it if requested by a passenger? Is a name tag sufficient proof of their identity?
5. Has a passenger the right to ask for said ID before he presents his own?
Thanks.

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Five Lamps

I'd imagine that most would happily provide you with identity. LUAS inspectors usually have ID visible on their lanyards.

What would you ask them other than their name? If you want an address they'll probably tell you the depot that they work out of. You'd hardly be expecting a home address?

You are obliged to provide a name and address and according to section 58 (c) of the Dublin Bus bylaws they can detain you until a member of AGS turns up. Though, I have never heard of this happening so perhaps there is legalities to that one.

bobbyss

Five Lamps wrote: »

I'd imagine that most would happily provide you with identity. LUAS inspectors usually have ID visible on their lanyards.

What would you ask them other than their name? If you want an address they'll probably tell you the depot that they work out of. You'd hardly be expecting a home address?

Thanks for your response.

In America, I understand, you can ask police who you are engaged with for their business card which has their name, station and employee number. They are obliged, I think, to supply this.

I have never been stopped by bus inspector and have never noticed any ID about them. Do you know, Five lamps, what is on Luas IDs? Is it a name or just something like 'Inspector'? If it is the latter that does not seem proper ID. Some may not be happy to identify themselves at all so in which case are they are actually obliged to show ID? Thanks

Five Lamps

bobbyss wrote: »

Do you know, Five lamps, what is on Luas IDs? Is it a name or just something like 'Inspector'? If it is the latter that does not seem proper ID. Some may not be happy to identify themselves at all so in which case are they are actually obliged to show ID? Thanks

I haven't looked at one but I'm guessing that it would include their name, photo and perhaps a staff number. It may or may not include their position in the company as any "duly authorised" member of staff could carry out the role of ticket inspection.

Bear in mind that company ID's aren't official documents and do they have to conform to any standards so there's no such thing as "proper ID". Also, most public transport companies issue uniforms that identify the wearer as a member of the company. Also, I suspect that you have no rights as a passenger to challenge a company employee to identify themselves.

bobbyss

Five Lamps wrote: »

I haven't looked at one but I'm guessing that it would include their name, photo and perhaps a staff number. It may or may not include their position in the company as any "duly authorised" member of staff could carry out the role of ticket inspection.

Bear in mind that company ID's aren't official documents and do they have to conform to any standards so there's no such thing as "proper ID". Also, most public transport companies issue uniforms that identify the wearer as a member of the company. Also, I suspect that you have no rights as a passenger to challenge a company employee to identify themselves.

A proper ID is an ID sanctioned by the relevant company I would imagine and therefore official. If I made a copy of a bank employee's ID that would not be an official one as opposed to the one issued by the bank.

If their ID badge had their name, photo and staff number on it, that would satisfy me, I think, they are who they claim they are. I think I would be happy with that. I must look more closely the next time I see inspectors.

I doubt very much if I had no right to demand to see their ID. I would not allow a policeman to enter my home unless he showed me ID that I could verify. (I think a garda is committing a crime, and can be prosecuted, if (s)he does not ID him/herself. This is esp. true in the States when there is video/phone evidence of refusal)

If I have no right as a passenger to challenge bus/Luas employee to ID themselves, why would they have ID on them in the first place?

I appreciate your response, thanks.

hfallada

I dont know why you would wan to see a inspectors ID. Some of the questions in legal discussion are a bit ridiculous. They sign the fine slip with their name. Plus most bus drivers know who inspectors are because an inspectors job is also to check that bus drivers are running to their timetable

Rascasse

According to the bye laws their uniform is sufficient ID;

58 (a) Any person who is reasonably suspected by an authorised person of contravening or attempting to contravene these Bye-Laws shall upon being requested so to do give his name and address to an authorized person who is an inspector, driver or conductor in uniform or who produces evidence of identity.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Enforcement-Procedures/

(top marks to Dublin bus for two different spellings of authorised in the same sentence)

goingnowhere

Irish Rail staff will display an ID card with "Revenue Protection" or RPU clearly displayed, they also have warrant card

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2005/en/act/pub/0031/sec0129.html#sec129

(6) An authorised officer, who is not a member of the Garda Síochána, shall, on his or her appointment under this section, be furnished by the Board with a warrant of his or her appointment as an authorised officer.

It is not unreasonable to ask to see the warrant card/id. I've seen both the ID card and the warrant card

odds_on

Rascasse wrote: »

According to the bye laws their uniform is sufficient ID;

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Enforcement-Procedures/

(top marks to Dublin bus for two different spellings of authorised in the same sentence)

Well spotted, Rascasse!

bobbyss

hfallada wrote: »

I dont know why you would wan to see a inspectors ID. Some of the questions in legal discussion are a bit ridiculous. They sign the fine slip with their name. Plus most bus drivers know who inspectors are because an inspectors job is also to check that bus drivers are running to their timetable

Thank you for your response hfallada but it is irrelevant why I want to see their ID. What is relevant is whether they are obliged to produce it.
Thank you for your respsonse.

bobbyss

Rascasse wrote: »

According to the bye laws their uniform is sufficient ID;

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Enforcement-Procedures/

(top marks to Dublin bus for two different spellings of authorised in the same sentence)

Ok, I think that hits the nail on the head. Thanks. Thanks to goingnowhere also.
What is a warrant card just just as a matter of interest?

By the way, I may have been wrong previously saying that garda have to show you ID if requested. I think I have read subsequently (maybe in Citizen's Advice) that they 'sometimes' have to show ID if requested which is very strange indeed.

odds_on

bobbyss wrote: »

Ok, I think that hits the nail on the head. Thanks. Thanks to goingnowhere also.
What is a warrant card just just as a matter of interest?

By the way, I may have been wrong previously saying that garda have to show you ID if requested. I think I have read subsequently (maybe in Citizen's Advice) that they 'sometimes' have to show ID if requested which is very strange indeed.

I wouldn't always trust what Citizens Advice write. They try to get so much into a few words, they often miss a vital point.

Carlos Orange

hfallada wrote: »

I dont know why you would wan to see a inspectors ID. Some of the questions in legal discussion are a bit ridiculous. They sign the fine slip with their name. Plus most bus drivers know who inspectors are because an inspectors job is also to check that bus drivers are running to their timetable

Either an abstract legal question or because he never pays for his Luas trips.

bobbyss

odds_on wrote: »

I wouldn't always trust what Citizens Advice write. They try to get so much into a few words, they often miss a vital point.

I suspect you might be right.

It is very strange that the Gardai may only 'sometimes' have to ID themselves to you. As posted before, I would not let men in uniform into my home unless they show me some verifiable ID. After all, don't the Gardai themselves offer advice along the lines of not entertaining salesmen etc on your doorstep without proof of who they are?

The problem I find in sourcing this information is the complexities of the legislation whereby each section of an act seems to contradict previous sections and you end up not knowing what is legal and what is not. Therefore when someone cuts to the heart of the matter as with Rascasse above, you are grateful for that.

bobbyss

psinno wrote: »

Either an abstract legal question or because he never pays for his Luas trips.

I have never used the Luas. I have been stopped by Bus inspectors to produce tickets which I always have. So I guess it must be the former.

Thank you.

Cody Pomeray

odds_on wrote: »

I wouldn't always trust what Citizens Advice write. They try to get so much into a few words, they often miss a vital point.

It's not difficult to find errors on that website, or at best, shoddy formulations that can easily be misinterpreted.

odds_on

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

It's not difficult to find errors on that website, or at best, shoddy formulations that can easily be misinterpreted.

"Threahold" are in a similar position as regards errors and/or misleading information.

Five Lamps

bobbyss wrote: »

A proper ID is an ID sanctioned by the relevant company I would imagine and therefore official. If I made a copy of a bank employee's ID that would not be an official one as opposed to the one issued by the bank.

Correct but by "proper ID" I was referring to forms of official ID that might be issued by the State foe example, a Garda, or indeed one issued to citizens like a passport or age card. There isn't any standards that a company ID has to adhere to.

I doubt very much if I had no right to demand to see their ID. I would not allow a policeman to enter my home unless he showed me ID that I could verify. (I think a garda is committing a crime, and can be prosecuted, if (s)he does not ID him/herself. This is esp. true in the States when there is video/phone evidence of refusal)

There is a big difference here. The powers of a Garda or police officer far exceed those of any employee of a transport company so there would be a requirement to carry their authority, Having said that, you don't hear of any uniformed Gardai identifying themselves when collaring somebody.

If I have no right as a passenger to challenge bus/Luas employee to ID themselves, why would they have ID on them in the first place?

I appreciate your response, thanks.

Loads of reasons including access to their own facilities.

Cody Pomeray

odds_on wrote: »

"Threahold" are in a similar position as regards errors and/or misleading information.

is that right,, i haven't noticed threshold but i've seen a few clangers on PRTB documents, which surprised me.

makes you wonder why sites like boards.ie get so het up about legal advice when there are these quasi-official agencies going around disseminating facts which are just wrong, or worded so poorly as to give rise to a total misunderstanding of the facts, apparently withoit a care in the world.

In the PRTB case, I wrote off a quick email explaining that some document (standards in rental accom) contained an error, got back an email saying yes sorry about that, as far as I know the thing hasn't been updated.

odds_on

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

is that right,, i haven't noticed threshold but i've seen a few clangers on PRTB documents, which surprised me.

makes you wonder why sites like boards.ie get so het up about legal advice when there are these quasi-official agencies going around disseminating facts which are just wrong, or worded so poorly as to give rise to a total misunderstanding of the facts, apparently withoit a care in the world.

In the PRTB case, I wrote off a quick email explaining that some document (standards in rental accom) contained an error, got back an email saying yes sorry about that, as far as I know the thing hasn't been updated.

The PRTB are probably the slowest quango in existence!