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DAB in Ireland: RTE multiplex closed

rlogue

WestBriton informs me that he obtained good DAB reception on a portable DAB radio in the foothills of the Dublin mountains.

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Trick of the Tail

As mentioned above, it's not a frequency change. RTE have updated the PIDs (Programme Identifiers) - its a code number that identifies the station to the receiver, much like the PI code in FM RDS.

In fact if a station is simulcast on FM and DAB, the PID should be the same as the PI, so that suitably equipped receivers will switch between FM and DAB if reception dictates.

The problem was that RTE were using some incorrect codes which didn't matter for a while, until that is some FM stations came on air, like 4FM, using the same PI code as RTE's PIDs.

Then it mattered - hence the change.

Souriau

I am disappointed with Digital one audio quality here in NI.
I was not able to received Digital One and NI Mux but only BBC National Mux.
I used to get RTE National Mux but not now.
I installed a VHF aerial to get the extra stations and getting both Digital One and NI mux from Brougher Mountain, 85km, as I can't received NI Mux from Black Mountain, 48km.
I now find that most stations on Digital one are in mono and 64kbps MP2.
It sound terrible and not worth the effort to installed the external VHF aerial.
Better quality from the internet radio and I compare the 2 source and it a big different between day and night, Internet radio is far better than DAB.

I did point the VHF aerial toward Clermont Carn and I am not receiving any DAB signal even I can received DVB TV, Saorview no problem. either is is not transmitting or is block toward North...

Mr. Rabbit

Strangely, Capital Radio Extra has just replaced Smooth Radio 70's at 112 kbps in stereo. I was really disappointed to lose Smooth Radio 70's as it was by far my favourite station on Digital One.

On another disappointing note, Q 102.9 has been dead air for over a week now, so I've no idea what's going on there. I've posted a couple of messages on their Facebook page (which they've acknowledged) and a well known presenter has also passed an e-mail to the engineers so I've no idea what's happening. One less station it would seem.

On a positive note, those stations that replace the ones that have left the local mux should all be in stereo. My guess is Capital and Heart. I'm not so sure about U 105.

I think what we need in the UK is DAB +, or a second national multiplex.

Still, at least it's better than DAB in the ROI.

watty

2nd Mux. DAB+ would only be used to fit in more stations.

Actually a better solution is simply triple the size of the FM Spectrum. Works better, 10x battery life at least, cheaper transmission costs, better coverage, 1/10th cost receiver electronics, no channel change delay.

The unused spectrum exists in all of Europe. Except the parts already using 65MHz to 75MHz for FM Radio!
Simply add 65 to 85MHz and 175Mhz to 195Mhz. A €5 converter with a 3 -way switch would convert existing VHF radios (HiFi, Portable, Car, even phones). New models could incorporate the 2 extra bands at under $1 extra cost for maker.

Digital isn't always the best solution. DAB+ is simply to fit in twice the stations at same quality, it's optimised for 64K stereo instead of 128K stereo (both are rubbish compared to FM). At 256K there is little difference between AAC (DAB+), MP3 and MP2 (DAB / DTT), only slight improvement.

Mr. Rabbit

watty wrote: »

2nd Mux. DAB+ would only be used to fit in more stations.

Actually a better solution is simply triple the size of the FM Spectrum. Works better, 10x battery life at least, cheaper transmission costs, better coverage, 1/10th cost receiver electronics, no channel change delay.

The unused spectrum exists in all of Europe. Except the parts already using 65MHz to 75MHz for FM Radio!
Simply add 65 to 85MHz and 175Mhz to 195Mhz. A €5 converter with a 3 -way switch would convert existing VHF radios (HiFi, Portable, Car, even phones). New models could incorporate the 2 extra bands at under $1 extra cost for maker.

Digital isn't always the best solution. DAB+ is simply to fit in twice the stations at same quality, it's optimised for 64K stereo instead of 128K stereo (both are rubbish compared to FM). At 256K there is little difference between AAC (DAB+), MP3 and MP2 (DAB / DTT), only slight improvement.

I always find it strange that places like Spain, Italy, and France etc. can fit far more stations into band II FM than here in the UK or Ireland.

NI is particularly bad for FM. A City the size Belfast should have far more than a measly 9 stations on FM (leaving aside the long term community stations.).

In my opinion, radio is far too tightly regulated in these islands. Ofcom and Comreg seem to have far to big a stranglehold over what happens.

DublinKev

Thanks The Cush and Trick of the Tail.

I still get the "Programme Unavailable" message every couple of weeks on the RTE stations on DAB in the car radio. I have to retune them when this happens.

Don't understand why this is happening.

The Cush

Some DAB related work planned for Clermont Carn at the end of the month

Service Notification:
RTÉNL - Clermont Carn, Co Louth

Due to essential engineering work, Clermont Carn transmissions will be subject to a 6 hour outage from 10am on 30th October.

This work will affect the DAB radio service from this transmission site.

RTÉNL apologise for any inconvenience caused by this necessary work.

http://www.rte.ie/aertel/desktopxhtml/169-8.html

StreetLight

Zenith Classic Rock has just replaced All 70s on DAB in Dublin.

Souriau

The Cush wrote: »

Some DAB related work planned for Clermont Carn at the end of the month

I hope this will let DAB signal beam north as there is no signal heading north at the moment.
It was receivable but of late is gone, maybe something is faulty.

TAFKAlawhec

Souriau wrote: »

I hope this will let DAB signal beam north as there is no signal heading north at the moment.
It was receivable but of late is gone, maybe something is faulty.

Unless they're fitting in a new DAB Band III aerial with a new radiation pattern which transmits towards the north & north-west amongst other directions from the site, then it won't happen. Never say never though.

TAFKAlawhec

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

I always find it strange that places like Spain, Italy, and France etc. can fit far more stations into band II FM than here in the UK or Ireland.

NI is particularly bad for FM. A City the size Belfast should have far more than a measly 9 stations on FM (leaving aside the long term community stations.).

In my opinion, radio is far too tightly regulated in these islands. Ofcom and Comreg seem to have far to big a stranglehold over what happens.

France is fairly notorious for having poor FM reception in quite a few places. While in Paris the FM band is crowded, this is at the expense of its surburbs and surrounding hinterland where very little frequency space is left for either local stations or relays.

Spain has only within the last couple of years been trying to get a grip on the amount of FM radio stations that exist in a legal grey-area (many of them seemingly get broadcast licences from local town halls) while Italy is just an absolute mess when it comes to RF planning.

Both the Irish and British authorities can be accused of being conservative of their planning of FM radio services, but it has the up shot of less co-channel interference under flat and even mild tropospheric enhancement conditions, and that listening to a station outside of its main service area is very possible in many cases. Not something that can be done very often in Spain and especially Italy.

watty

We are not a proper member of the "piigs". Italy, Greece & Spain do lots of planning & regulation worse than us. I don't know enough about Portugal.

Mr. Rabbit

Q 102.9 has now left the NI local Bauer multiplex.

Space now for four extra stations at 128 kbps.

watty

Two @ 256Kbps would be FM Quality ...

Trick of the Tail

Zenith Classic Rock is now available on both independent muxes, the Total Broadcast one in the South East, and the DB one in Dublin.

Mr. Rabbit

Q 102.9 have now left the NI DAB multiplex permanently.

I gather it's due to financial reasons.

Mr. Rabbit

Citybeat have now split their FM and DAB services.

DAB has now become Citybeat Christmas and is playing non stop Christmas music while their FM service continues with regular programmes.

Strange. Wonder if they'll run both on DAB on a temporary basis since they now have the capacity to do this ?

Onthe3rdDay

Mr. Rabbit wrote: »

Citybeat have now split their FM and DAB services.

DAB has now become Citybeat Christmas and is playing non stop Christmas music while their FM service continues with regular programmes.

Strange. Wonder if they'll run both on DAB on a temporary basis since they now have the capacity to do this ?

Sorry, one or two questions. Is it automated? are there commercials?

Mr. Rabbit

Onthe3rdDay wrote: »

Sorry, one or two questions. Is it automated? are there commercials?

Sounds as if it's totally automated (i.e. no presenters). It's also commercial free.

Surprised they haven't run this alongside their regular service on DAB given there's so much space available on the local multiplex now.

LowOdour

Can anyone tell my if DAB will be available in the west of Ireland, specifically Galway?

marno21

Someone said before that DAB was testing from Tonabrocky in Galway city, not sure if that's still the case though

The Cush

LowOdour wrote: »

Can anyone tell my if DAB will be available in the west of Ireland, specifically Galway?

No RTÉ plans that we know of. This trial DAB service did mention Galway would be included at some time in the future - http://www.dbdb.ie/q1-report/, but a July 2013 reply here says there are no plans for Galway.

dabfan

The DB Digital Broadcast DAB/DAB+ trial should be on air in Cork city (from Churchfield) in the next couple of weeks.

watty

We don't need trials. Even DAB+ is old failed technology.

Either roll it out for proper 99.9% coverage or close DAB as a waste of money. It's unsuitable for car (coverage) or portable (massive battery consumption and coverage).

Trick of the Tail

Man, you're a Luddite!

I've been driving around Waterford and it's environs today listening to the DAB and it's been near-perfect all the time, just the very occasional squawk. No more often then I'd hear a blend or fizzle on FM.

DAB should indeed be rolled out right now, as an incremental medium for smaller, more niche format stations. Never as a replacement for FM.

watty

Internet & MP3 is more economic sense for more niche stations, not sustainable on DAB.

I have more gadgets and digital stuff than you could imagine. Digital TV is a good idea. Digital Radio is a flawed concept no matter what digital system you use.

The fact is even in UK they need 6x as many (small) transmitters for DAB for fill in to give FM level of coverage. Partially because it's digital and partially because it's on Band III.

The Power consumption after nearly 15 years development hasn't been solved for portables.

"driving around waterford" isn't a proof of anything.

Capt'n Midnight

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

DAB should indeed be rolled out right now, as an incremental medium for smaller, more niche format stations. Never as a replacement for FM.

I've argued before that niche stations aren't always live so you could listen to podcasts, and besides they all stream. And while geographic coverage of DAB is better than mobile internet it's an expensive way to deliver niche content to edge cases.

It's still a solution looking for a problem.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25398968

The government said it could only decide on a date for the digital radio switchover when DAB accounted for 50% of all radio listening.

That figure is currently 35.6%, although it has increased from 21.1% in 2009.
...
An estimated 95% of cars currently still lack DAB equipment and many people are still reliant on analogue radios, with some rebelling against the FM switch-off.

Today every car and android smartphone has an FM receiver.

Capt'n Midnight

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/10/29/radio_switchover_crunch_arrives_with_everyone_in_the_garden/

DAB's share of the market actually fell (PDF, one page) from 23.9 per cent in the quarter ending June, to 23.0 per cent. Even as a share of commercial listening (PDF) it decreased from 21.1 per cent to 18.9 per cent.

Digital listening fell overall, from 36.8 per cent to 35.6 per cent, following a five per cent increase in the equivalent quarter last year. In contrast, FM's slice of the audio pie increased in the three months to September, up to 61.1 per cent from 58.8 per cent in the summer.

We asked RAJAR about the numbers, which saw a digital fall over the summer after a strong digital uptick in the previous quarter. A spokesperson told us there have been "no changes to the methodology or sampling" and suggested that the warm weather might account for the curious returns.

"As the summer months were particularly glorious this year, more people may have taking their personal radios out to the garden or elsewhere. This is an easier task with an AM/FM radio as the battery tends to last longer," said the RAJAR mouthpiece.

After over a decade of huffing and puffing, DAB platforms measured by "reach" currently account for only 32.8 per cent of radio listening, with Digital TV scooping up another 15.5 per cent and online/app-based listening taking a measly 14.7 per cent.

Interesting that TV and online together have the same share as DAB.

Mearings

Why is DAB being rolled out in so many countries?

The Cush

Mearings wrote: »

Why is DAB being rolled out in so many countries?

Because it's seen as the natural replacement for the FM analogue networks. Norway recently announced the rollout of its DAB+ national radio network to be completed in time for the switching off of its FM radio network in 2017.