Barryp6177 wrote: » Hi guys, Can anybody answer this question about the new legislation for motoring since last month. If I am to buy a car which has tax arrears of say 6 months, am I liable to pay these arrears now under the new legislation? Or is it still the same as before where because there has been a change of ownership the arrears get wiped?
sean1141 wrote: » dose the previous owner have to pay arrears if they are due? eg I buy a car that has not been used in the last 12 months and was not declared off the road..
CiniO wrote: » Arrears become due for previous owner only when he goes down to tax the car. If he never intends to tax his car himself, then arrears never become due.
tryfix wrote: » That's a relief, so if a car is out of tax for a few months and the owner scraps it, then the arrears wouldn't be due or would they?
sean1141 wrote: » So if my friend had a car that wasn't taxed for the last 12 months and wasn't declared off the road and I bought it off him today and sold it back to him in a few weeks there would be no arrears to be paid by anyone?
CiniO wrote: » No they wouldn't be due. As above - arrears only become due when owner proceeds to tax the vehicle.
CiniO wrote: » With current law - no. But maybe it's going to change at some stage.
Mint Sauce wrote: » But wouldn't it come under tax evasion, asuming it was picked up by who ever in Shannon processing the change of ownership.
‘period of arrears’, in relation to a licence to which paragraph (b) applies, is the period beginning on the date of— (i) the entry on the register referred to in paragraph (b)(i), (ii) the expiration of— (I) the most recent licence taken out under section 1 of the Act of 1952 referred to in paragraph (b)(ii)(I), or (II) the period specified in the most recent non-use declaration accepted by a licensing authority referred to in paragraph (b)(ii)(II), or (iii) the transfer of ownership referred to in paragraph (b)(iii), and ending on the day before the commencement date of that licence.
b) Where an application for a licence under section 1 of the Act of 1952 is made to a licensing authority— (i) in relation to a vehicle not previously the subject of such a licence, in a month other than the month in which the vehicle is entered on the register, (ii) more than one month after the expiration of, in relation to a vehicle, as the case may be— (I) the most recent licence taken out under section 1 of the Act of 1952, or (II) the period specified in the most recent non-use declaration accepted by a licensing authority, or (iii) where a transfer of ownership of a vehicle has taken place, in a month other than the month in which the ownership is transferred, the owner of the vehicle, in respect of each month of the period of arrears, shall be liable to pay to the licensing authority concerned an additional charge as well as the duty of excise, charged and levied on a vehicle under section 1 of the Act of 1952 and payable on a licence under that section of that Act, and the licensing authority shall not grant the licence unless the additional charge and duty of excise is paid
corktina wrote: » By definition , arrears are due already. The point is they cease to be payable on sale of vehicle.
It's typically muddled Irish Government thinking and it's only a matter of time until this is addressed so that if vehicle is not taxed or under a SORD, then a fine is issued (as in the UK)
corktina wrote: » It's typically muddled Irish Government thinking and it's only a matter of time until this is addressed so that if vehicle is not taxed or under a SORD, then a fine is issued (as in the UK)
djimi wrote: » Cinio, explain this to me; if arrears are only due when you go to tax a vehicle, then why is it that it is illegal to drive a car that is not taxed? Going on what you are saying, no tax would be owed until you decided to pay it, therefore no crime is being committed.
munchkin_utd wrote: » a valid tax disc must be displayed for a start if you are driving it about so by not having that you are already commiting an offence.
djimi wrote: » Cinio, explain this to me; if arrears are only due when you go to tax a vehicle, then why is it that it is illegal to drive a car that is not taxed?
Going on what you are saying, no tax would be owed until you decided to pay it, therefore no crime is being committed.
djimi wrote: » I thought this was the idea behind the SORN system to be honest. Under the current system the car is in one of two states; it is either off the road or is it taxed. If its not off the road, and its not taxed then a warning is issued and eventually a fine is due. Very simple to implement and to automate; I dont see where the issue is.
djimi wrote: » Is that the only offense? To not display a valid tax disc? I was of the impression that not displaying a valid tax disc and not having current tax were two seperate offenses; am I wrong in thinking that?
CiniO wrote: » True. Very simple to automate and implement. Only issue is that it's not the case, because regulations make it work different. Under current system car can be in 3 states. When tax expires you can either: 1. Tax it. 2. Declare it off the road. 3. Do nothing. Only drawback of doing nothing, is that on next occasion you will be taxing it, you will have to pay arrears. If you are not planning to tax it ever again, you might go on with point 3. No fines can be issued for period of tax not paid, as there are no arrears due until you proceed to tax the vehicle.
djimi wrote: » So its illegal to drive a car that is not taxed, but its not a legal requirement to pay any owed tax on the car unless you decide to do so? Hmmm...
djimi wrote: » There is no need for a car to ever be in "limbo" so to speak. Its either on the road and taxed, or its not on the road and has been declared off the road. Ill admit that for the next while there will be a lot of cars that have been off the road and will not have been declared as such, but they need to determine a point (maybe as much as 5 years from now) after which any car that has not been declared off the road is expected to be fully taxed.
CiniO wrote: » True. They should do it, to make the new system work as it should. On the other hand, I think that whole system change was not necessary. Look at it. The idea now is that you should declare car off the road if you want to keep it off the road. If you are caught driving in declared car, you will be heavily fined, so people should be afraid to do it. Why on earth instead of modifying the whole system, didn't they just start issuing the same heavy fines in the old system for anyone driving untaxed vehicle. It would make much more sense.
djimi wrote: » If the new system is implemented properly it doesnt require any enforcement whatsoever from any third party such as the Gardai.
The car is either taxed or its off the road. If its not off the road then the owner gets a warning letter, and if within say 30 days it has not been either taxed or declared off the road then a fine is automatically issued.
Its also easier to catch those who are committing fraud by driving a car that has been declared off the road. Under the old system I could drive untaxed for 6 months, and if I got away with it, declared the car off the road for that time, tax the car for three months and start the whole cycle over again.
If I got caught then I just pay the arrears and move on. Under the new system, if the car has been declared off the road in advance and you are caught then there is no way of getting out of being done for making a fraudulant declaration. Again it removes this limbo state where a car is neither taxed or off the road.
CiniO wrote: » It can't really come under tax evasion, as you are not evading any tax. Tax evasion could be the case, if arrears were due to be paid because car was untaxed, and by changing ownership this arrears were cancelled. But with current legislation arrears only become due, when you proceed to pay the motortax. Otherwise they are not due, so they can not issue any fines neither can they accuse anyone of tax evasion as no one is evading any tax. Have a look here: It clearly says that period of arrears relates to licence to which paragraph (b) applies which in other words mean that period of arrears relates to situation when you are taxing your vehicle. Here's paragraph b which even further confirms that fact. It's clear that owner of vehicle shall be liable for arrears only if he is licensing (taxing) the vehicle. There is no law making arrears automatically due. Only if you go to tax the vehicle they become due.http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2013/en/act/pub/0016/print.html
