Howard Juneau wrote: » So no proof then? Ah that's grand.
What nonsense. The point in bold is the only point I'll concede. When Howard Juneau rightly called your bluff and asked for evidence you couldn't provide any. I'm not interested in discussing fevered republican ranting.
FTA69 wrote: » Let's look at who she was passing information to for a second will we? In the early 1970s the British Army was implementing internment, a process whereby thousands of innocent people were abducted from their homes and imprisoned without trial in camps. Within these camps the British Army routinely beat and tortured their captives and were later taken to the European Court for things such as mock executions, throwing people out of helicopters and general other torture tactics. They had also, a few months before, killed 14 innocent civilians on the streets of Derry as well as committed a massacre of civilians in Ballymurphy. And you think collaborating with that shower is a "noble act"? Unfortunately there has always been a dose of cringing toadyism in Ireland and the above statement shows it's alive and well today.
FTA69 wrote: » Yeah, because that sort of information is always in the public domain like. It's hardly common practice to divulge records of your informants. She was apparently caught twice, Ed Moloney details the incident in his book. And it's a far more likely scenario than her being shot for no reason other than Republican psychopathy.
Crooked Jack wrote: » We'd all love to see some of the british army records from those days. im always amused that people take brendan hughes and marion price's word as gospel when they say Adams ordered her killing, but suddenly the same people have no credibility when they say she was klled because she was a brit agent
Howard Juneau wrote: » Let's see any of this information passed, any records at all , maybe a smidgen of a piece of paper?
Iwasfrozen wrote: » I don't know whether she was or not but informing on a terrorist organisation is a noble act that shouldn't have seen her killed.
Manassas61 wrote: » FTA69 wrote: » There is no evidence she was an informer. This is propaganda of the worst degree. Her family have denied she was an informer. The PIRA as murderous thugs thought they were the law and decided to murder her and not even return her body. Scandalous. Of course her family said she wasnt an informer, they were mad that she was shot and turned agaisnt the army
FTA69 wrote: » There is no evidence she was an informer. This is propaganda of the worst degree. Her family have denied she was an informer. The PIRA as murderous thugs thought they were the law and decided to murder her and not even return her body. Scandalous.
Tramps Like Us wrote: » Why do you think that?
Howard Juneau wrote: » The fact she wasn't a British collaborator
Tramps Like Us wrote: » And what do you base that on?
Tramps Like Us wrote: » If she was a British agent, and I believe she was, she was not a civilian.
Godge wrote: » Did you not know the real story? It wasn't us. Maybe it was a renegade group. We didn't torture her. It really wasn't us. She deserved it. She was sleeping with a British soldier. It definitely wasn't us. She was an informer. We don't know what happened. It was a British government plot to discredit the IRA, they probably know where she is. Maybe it was a beach in Dundalk but we don't know for certain because it wasn't us. Did the Irish government turn a blind eye to whoever did it. She deserved it because she was an informer. It definitely wasn't us. Oh. OK, it was us and we are sorry but we are not taking back any of the other things we said. The list of SF/IRA excuses, stories and slander in relation to Jean McConville is lengthy and disgraceful.
Manassas61 wrote: » You would not find me defending those actions. Same way I would not expect to find anyone trying to even remotely "defend" what happened to Jean Mcconville.
Charlie Rock wrote: » You're the one doing the dressing up not I. If I could easily go on a similar crusade to paint British Soldiers as child killers by awaking the ghosts of some of the children they murdered. Unlike you, and your fellow travellers, I won't dance on their graves by using their deaths to my own selfish ends. Also, I'm not so stupid as to think the BA or RUC was made up exclusively of bloodthirsty degenerates.
Manassas61 wrote: » You can try to dress it up what ever you want
Manassas61 wrote: » You can try to dress it up what ever you want, it is a factual historical reality that they picked her up and murdered her and didn't return her body. This is not a lie, this did happen and she was a civilian.
Charlie Rock wrote: » I don't believe people like Manassa61 really care about Jean Mc Conville - they care about trying to make Republicans look evil so what they do is focus in on killings that will provide the most 'emotional capital' to help underpin their anti-Republican crusades.
Tramps Like Us wrote: » I'm trying to remember a war where no civilians were killed, or even just a bombing campaign, whether its Lancaster bombers or newfangled drones. Civilian deaths are an unavoidable, tragic, regrettable consequence of war and always have been (especially with a 30 year one) - which is why everything must be carefully considered before entering one. Dissident republicans (who this thread is about) who outright advocate a continuation of the campaign (as distinct from those who just disagree with the GFA) don't have a coherent political analysis or even any political or military strategy beyond the idea to keep plugging away and see if something happens - it is on this basis they should be challenged (if you want to do something which is actually useful) The argument some posters here are putting forward and the moralizing over civilian deaths should not be taken at face value, given the fact that they accept the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths their own countries army has inflicted - for these people it is not really about civilian deaths and they should not pretend it is - there is no mention of the murders of civilians which founded NI and helped maintain it and why would there be, they don't fit their agenda.
Manassas61 wrote: » There is no evidence she was an informer. This is propaganda of the worst degree. Her family have denied she was an informer. The PIRA as murderous thugs thought they were the law and decided to murder her and not even return her body. Scandalous.
Fratton Fred wrote: » How many times was the Europa Hotel bombed? And what did Claudy do to warrant three car bombs?
FTA69 wrote: » Manassas61 wrote: » Civilians account for around a third of their casualties, which is the lowest out of any protagonist in the conflict; including the British Army. She was killed for being an informer. Not a glorious event by any means, but she wasn't shot for no reason. There is no evidence she was an informer. This is propaganda of the worst degree. Her family have denied she was an informer. The PIRA as murderous thugs thought they were the law and decided to murder her and not even return her body. Scandalous.
Manassas61 wrote: » Civilians account for around a third of their casualties, which is the lowest out of any protagonist in the conflict; including the British Army. She was killed for being an informer. Not a glorious event by any means, but she wasn't shot for no reason.
Fratton Fred wrote: » Then try studying something other than an phoblacht, because you are very very wrong.
Suspicion immediately fell upon the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA), who denied involvement. By 8 December, the British Army was blaming the INLA on grounds that the IRA, in a mixed village, would have made greater efforts not to risk killing civilians.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Droppin_Well_bombing
Manassas61 wrote: » Saying the PIRA did not target civilians is just rewriting of history and rather disturbing when you look at the amount of civilians they killed with bombs and shootings. Jean Mcconville is a good example of a civilian murdered.
