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Dun Laoghaire Traffic & Commuting Chat

Fratton Fred

To avoid derailing other SCD threads, I thought I'd add a Dun Laoghaire thread.

My main query, is does anyone know what is going on outside the train station? It looks like they are putting a crossing in twenty metres from the crossroads. Surely not?

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coylemj

Anything that wastes money and fcuks up the flow of traffic is a good spend as far as DLR co. co. is concerned. Just look at the way they widened the footpath at the bottom of Mount Merrion Ave. which blocked off the left-turn lane, thereby ensuring even greater tailbacks at busy times of the day. Previously anyone coming down Mt. Merrion Ave intending to turn left to go into town could do so via a left-turning lane with IIRC an amber flashing left arrow. Most of the time it was easy to yield and then merge with the city-bound trafffic coming off the bypass. With the footpath widened it's now a bottleneck because there's no 'yield and merge' for left-turning traffic meaning that everyone has to wait for the lights to go green so there's usually a much longer queue of traffic coming off Mt. Merrion Ave.

the groutch

Fratton Fred wrote: »

It looks like they are putting a crossing in twenty metres from the crossroads. Surely not?

you think that's bad, they're putting one on Kill Avenue between the IADT entrance and the church exit, pure stupidity

frash

the groutch wrote: »

you think that's bad, they're putting one on Kill Avenue between the IADT entrance and the church exit, pure stupidity

Probably for the crowds that get off the bus across the road from the college.

MurdyWurdy

They're putting a pavement in the middle of the road across from the 40 foot and there's the most ridiculous stop/go system - it's only just past the crossroads with the dart station (or at least it was the other day) and it was causing big traffic problems. Avoid!

Cookie_Monster

towards the end of the year, time to waste the remaining budget on stupid stuff to ensure it's all spent

Mick Murdock

Good idea for a thread.

Here's my question: If you were given a retail space on Georges Street or anywhere in the centre (away from the Pavillion), what kind of business do you think Dún Laoghaire needs or could do with more of?

Here's my not very inventive idea. I'm sure others will be more creative.

While there isn't a shortage of places to eat, a lot of them I find are very samey - there isn't a great variety of cafes etc., at least not in my experience. I'd start with a Mexican burrito bar something like Pablo Picanté in town. Cheap and cheerful, not the healthiest thing in the world but a damn sight better than the muck that most cafes are dishing up.

Anyone else?

ted1

A needle exchange...,

Larbre34

Nandos, Starbucks and Wetherspoons all coming. What more could an ailing town want to restore its soul.

We could do with another barbers, 19 of them is not nearly enough choice.

By the way i understand the crossing point outside the DART station, the amount of jay walking and walking out behind buses that goes on there is madness. Also car drivers behave appallingly at the main crossroads, more lights broken than an old christmas tree. Ive no problem with private drivers being pushed down the pecking order on road priority, and as ive said before on these threads, that is the adopted national policy

Lu Tze

Mick Murdock wrote: »

Good idea for a thread.

Here's my question: If you were given a retail space on Georges Street or anywhere in the centre (away from the Pavillion), what kind of business do you think Dún Laoghaire needs or could do with more of?

Here's my not very inventive idea. I'm sure others will be more creative.

While there isn't a shortage of places to eat, a lot of them I find are very samey - there isn't a great variety of cafes etc., at least not in my experience. I'd start with a Mexican burrito bar something like Pablo Picanté in town. Cheap and cheerful, not the healthiest thing in the world but a damn sight better than the muck that most cafes are dishing up.

Anyone else?

I think Georges Street could do with yet another charity shop

Mick Murdock

That's the spirit!

coylemj

A few more pubs with no back yards so the customers who smoke have to stand outside blowing tobacco fumes into the faces of passing pedestrians.

Fratton Fred

If I were the council, I would purchase a few empty shops and give them to top shop/next or h&m rent and rate free for three years, on the condition they stayed for five years.

Then I would create a borough bus, with three routes in to the town. €1 each way for adults, free for kids and pensioners.

I would then create a market. Not an arty farty artisan market, one that sells fruit and veg, cheeses, bread etc.

Frosty McSnowballs

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If I were the council, I would purchase a few empty shops and give them to top shop/next or h&m rent and rate free for three years, on the condition they stayed for five years.

Then I would create a borough bus, with three routes in to the town. €1 each way for adults, free for kids and pensioners.

I would then create a market. Not an arty farty artisan market, one that sells fruit and veg, cheeses, bread etc.

Not a bad idea.

There's a serious lack of "good" men's clothes shops. Motion Picture and that overpriced posh one near the Miami Cafe...Frewen & alwryn or something like that....are brutal

Larbre34

Fratton Fred wrote: »

If I were the council, I would purchase a few empty shops and give them to top shop/next or h&m rent and rate free for three years, on the condition they stayed for five years.

Then I would create a borough bus, with three routes in to the town. €1 each way for adults, free for kids and pensioners.

I would then create a market. Not an arty farty artisan market, one that sells fruit and veg, cheeses, bread etc.

Pop-up shops have been tried. No need to offer shops to the big chains, theyre the ones that can actually afford them, if they saw a viable market in DL they'd be there anyway. Even if the Council were legally able to and able to afford to buy up real estate like that, theres no guarantee the units would be sold to them or anyone else by the freeholders, who are mostly large pension funds who can afford to play the long game and wait for demand and rent levels to recover to make a return on them over the very long term.

One thing DL does not suffer from is lack of public transport. High frequency DART and no fewer than 6 bus routes which are already free to pensioners and very cheap to kids and which pick up a significant amount of the wider catchment

And arent there two farmers markets operating during the week already, at the Church and in the Peoples Park? Theyre not necessarily artisan, just homemade micro businesses, the big stores cater fine for mass produced stuff, and theres no way a permanent market cut undercut those prices.

Frosty McSnowballs

DL is a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. It was great 10-12 years ago.

The only things that have brought me there in the last few months are Burger King, Teddies and the cinema ......that's it.

Fratton Fred

Larbre34 wrote: »

Pop-up shops have been tried. No need to offer shops to the big chains, theyre the ones that can actually afford them, if they saw a viable market in DL they'd be there anyway. Even if the Council were legally able to and able to afford to buy up real estate like that, theres no guarantee the units would be sold to them or anyone else by the freeholders, who are mostly large pension funds who can afford to play the long game and wait for demand and rent levels to recover to make a return on them over the very long term.

One thing DL does not suffer from is lack of public transport. High frequency DART and no fewer than 6 bus routes which are already free to pensioners and very cheap to kids and which pick up a significant amount of the wider catchment

And arent there two farmers markets operating during the week already, at the Church and in the Peoples Park? Theyre not necessarily artisan, just homemade micro businesses, the big stores cater fine for mass produced stuff, and theres no way a permanent market cut undercut those prices.

I'm not talking about pop up shops, I'm talking about pro actively attracting big retailers to Dun Laoghaire. Attract big retailers, you attract people. Footfall is the name of the game in retail. More foot fall, more business.

Or we could just abandon the place.

patrickbrophy18

Larbre34 wrote: »

Nandos, Starbucks and Wetherspoons all coming. What more could an ailing town want to restore its soul.

Agreed. While I miss Starbucks in Dalkey, it would do much better in Dun Laoghaire given it's status as a hub and all.

Larbre34 wrote: »

We could do with another barbers, 19 of them is not nearly enough choice.

We could have a place called "Make Your Own Hairdo"!;)

With sarcasm acknowledged, I also think that there are too many duplicate business types. A prime example being "Super Euro", "Euro Giant", "Deals" and "The Euro Store". All of these stores are well within 200 meters of each other. I wouldn't really include "Tesco" and "Super Valu" in this category as they are proper super markets. Having said that, other duplicate business types such as "o2", "Meteor", "Vodafone" and "3" each have a massive client base in Dun Laoghaire and further afield.

I've often thought that a "Leisure Plex" would do well in the vicinity. Between Bray and Stillorgan, there is a huge gap in the market for this type of facility. Then again, I could be wrong as I don't know how good or bad "Leisure Plex" and clones their of are doing in the current economic climate. Nevertheless, I would be a frequent visitor.

Larbre34 wrote: »

By the way i understand the crossing point outside the DART station, the amount of jay walking and walking out behind buses that goes on there is madness.

Walking behind buses wouldn't be that big of a problem as the bus is traveling away from you. Having said that, the bus itself acts as a blind spot to road users coming the other way. As such, the pedestrian wouldn't be alerting others of their presence.

I don't think that jay walking is an official term in this country given that there is no law against it. However, I too, often see people crossing at red pedestrian lights without looking both ways. If pedestrians are going to cross the road at a red pedestrian light or a non designated crossing point, all they need to do is take a second to look both ways and cross when the coast is clear.

Larbre34 wrote: »

Also car drivers behave appallingly at the main crossroads, more lights broken than an old christmas tree.

That analogy made me laugh!:D

Anyway, I've often though to myself that the Garda Traffic Corps would make a fortune in fines for people braking red lights among other offenses. Stream line this nationwide and you've got one hell of a revenue stream. We'd be out of a recession in no time!:)

Larbre34 wrote: »

Ive no problem with private drivers being pushed down the pecking order on road priority, and as ive said before on these threads, that is the adopted national policy

I take it that you don't drive then. One question. Would you be against cars even if they weren't powered by pollutants (i.e. core contributors of climate change)?

After all, isn't national policy pertaining to cars mainly aimed at tackling climate change?

ted1

Patrick, your the only person I have ever heard say that they miss Starbucks in Dalkey. Everyone else is glad there gone. You should try Mugs, the tram yard or Idle wild for coffee. Each one is mikes better than Starbucks and each one is supporting an Iocal buisness with the profits remaining in the vicinity

patrickbrophy18

ted1 wrote: »

You should try Mugs, the tram yard or Idle wild for coffee. Each one is mikes better than Starbucks and each one is supporting an Iocal buisness with the profits remaining in the vicinity

As a matter of fact, I am a very loyal customer of Mugs because they make the best lattes in Dublin plus their Philly Bacon Bagel is delicious. I also detect a hint of xenophobia when you say "profits remaining in the vicinity". Either way, I respect both local and multinational businesses.

ted1

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

As a matter of fact, I am a very loyal customer of Mugs because they make the best lattes in Dublin plus their Philly Bacon Bagel is delicious. I also detect a hint of xenophobia when you say "profits remaining in the vicinity". Either way, I respect both local and multinational businesses.

Xenophobia, are you for f**king real. It's called supporting a local economy.

Aard

Having a main street full of barbers, discount shops, and charity shops is symptomatic of a wider problem. Namely that there aren't enough customers to demand higher retail. Half of DL's catchment area is in the sea, so it will always have to work harder than its inland neighbours. These days people on the fringes who might have shopped and socialised in DL in the past now have more convenient options like Dundrum or Carrickmines. The new Park Pointe retail development won't do it any favours either. This is not an argument against neighbouring development per we, but that DL reds constant investment if it is to stay viable. The retail-to-resident ratio is clearly unbalanced, so perhaps encouraging denser residential use would inject competition back into the commercial property market.

Larbre34

Im not against cars at all, dont care if they are fuelled by pollutants or not. I love driving my own car and I drive it in spite of public transport alternatives. However i understand that the consequence of me having my personal bubble on the road is that i will be pushed down the priority order in favour of mass transport and pedestrians and i have no problem with that

Lostnfound

Larbre34 wrote: »

Pop-up shops have been tried. No need to offer shops to the big chains, theyre the ones that can actually afford them, if they saw a viable market in DL they'd be there anyway. Even if the Council were legally able to and able to afford to buy up real estate like that, theres no guarantee the units would be sold to them or anyone else by the freeholders, who are mostly large pension funds who can afford to play the long game and wait for demand and rent levels to recover to make a return on them over the very long term.

One thing DL does not suffer from is lack of public transport. High frequency DART and no fewer than 6 bus routes which are already free to pensioners and very cheap to kids and which pick up a significant amount of the wider catchment

And arent there two farmers markets operating during the week already, at the Church and in the Peoples Park? Theyre not necessarily artisan, just homemade micro businesses, the big stores cater fine for mass produced stuff, and theres no way a permanent market cut undercut those prices.

Freeholders who are pension funds - that's a bit fanciful, they gave up on Upper & Lower George's Street many moons ago. Shops and the shopping centre are owned by private individuals and thankfully I and no one I know owns any part of it.

patrickbrophy18

Larbre34 wrote: »

Im not against cars at all, dont care if they are fuelled by pollutants or not. I love driving my own car and I drive it in spite of public transport alternatives. However i understand that the consequence of me having my personal bubble on the road is that i will be pushed down the priority order in favour of mass transport and pedestrians and i have no problem with that

Okay! Recently, I have copped on to the fact that pedestrians and cyclists have been marginalized in light of poor facilities, paths and all. While I am not a cyclist, I am primarily a driver and a pedestrian which gives me more of a balanced point of view from both perspectives. As a pedestrian, I have frequently seen drivers on mobiles or worse still, driving in the middle of the road even though there is ample room to their left. Don't get me started on some of the crap drivers on the M50 who think the 100KM/H sections don't apply to them. I've even had some drivers flash me on the outside lane as if to say that I'm in the wrong despite the fact that I am obeying the speed limit. This goes without saying. As a driver, I take my responsibility of other road users very seriously. Those that don't can &*&% right off. Hopefully, they'll get their comeuppance with the law.

Way off topic! Anyway, the CGI pictures of Park Pointe are incredibly impressive and I look forward to when it is finished. The extra "e" at the end of the title is a tad pretentious. However, I'll be going there a lot when it's operational.

ted1

Pointe means tip if the toes. I'd not call it pretentious, its a play in words saying its the tip of the park.

As regards getting flashed at for driving 100 on the outside lane. That's an over taking lane and your not meant to drive in it. So you may be obeying the limit but not the rules of the road.

DLRCoCo havn't a notion about transport, there very anti car but bu their own admission ( renting extra car spaces for staff) the public transport isn't sufficient. Also they have very few bike racks available.

Larbre34

That was probably me flashing you Patrick, if you like the motorway regulations you should stick to all of them.

patrickbrophy18

While this has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I am well aware that the outside lane of the M50 is an overtaking lane. I use it to overtake lines of traffic going below 80 KM/H on 100 KM/H. These lines can be very long and are mostly caused by traffic taking an upcoming exit. Once I've passed them out, I return to the inside lane (s). Despite this, I still get flashed. Correct me if I' m wrong but, the speed limit applies to all lanes. Yes, I've seen roads where a different speed limit applies to certain lanes and only where signage specifically points this out.

Aard

ted1 wrote: »

Pointe means tip if the toes. I'd not call it pretentious, its a play in words saying its the tip of the park.

So should it be pronounced Park Pwante then? If not, then it shouldn't have an 'e'. Either way, it's pretentious.

ted1

Aard wrote: »

So should it be pronounced Park Pwante then? If not, then it shouldn't have an 'e'. Either way, it's pretentious.

Why point and not pointe using the definition of both.

patrickbrophy18

What do y'all think of the huge library and cultural center that's being built on the old bowls court adjacent to The Royal Marine Hotel?

Will it be good for Dun Laoghaire?

Personally and given the rapid emergence of tablet based reading (iPad, Kindle etc.), I think it will be a huge waste of money. While books will not be completely obsolete for a few decades, I think a building on the magnitude of the upcoming Dun Laoghaire Library is excessive for housing a depleting medium. I rarely fail to get a seat in Dun Laoghaire or Dalkey Libraries whenever I'm in them. As such, over crowding isn't an issue.

The two or three retail units beside the Dunnes Stores clothes shop have been vacant for years at this stage. I've always thought that they would make a perfect extension for a new grocery section. The old grocery section on Northumberland Avenue was doomed to failure for two reasons:

It was situated off the main street making it isolated which would minimize exposure and awareness of its presence.
The building itself became grubby and tired looking.