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New Wexford 2 Day August 17th -18th

michael196

If you enjoyed the Frank O Rourke and you fancy a two day in august, promoted by the same Wexford Wheelers Club that brought you the Frank O Rourke, keep an eye on here.

If you trust the club who brought you the Frank O Rourke, to bring you on another organised and safe route, non circuit: then keep reading.

As this is a new promotion for this club, we have not yet defined the race Route.

A re-use of the Frank O Rourke is a possibility, but a stronger proposition is to bring you on one huge circuit.

You all might feel like guinea pigs by August, from circular races, so our aim is one long, non repeating route.

Our Current Aim is A2/A3, A4. Interested in your opinion on that. I Resources permit, a one off underage might be possible.

The structure regarding Criterium / time trial/ race is not yet defined.

Gives us your ideas, your wishes.

There are excellent south Wicklow hills nearby, however a transfer would be needed to the start.

Let us hear from you: for the Wexford Wheelers 2 day.

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Arthurdaly

Plastik wrote: »

Results on sticky are an absolute joke. I thought there was group times as per previous posts. Will post more tomorrow. Will certainly not be back for this if its run like that again.

Who releases this rubbish before checking? Tt times were released yesterday and we were told to add a minute! The fundamentals of this race were overlooked, appreciate a huge amount went into the race and it was great racing, but if you can't get the times right then there is no race.

Slo_Rida

I think you should start another thread and moan about precision timing there.
WW played a blinder and put on a great show.
This thread is for the race and one aspect is being shouted about much louder than everything else.
The racing, the course, the facilities etc were perfect and a hard final lap to sort out most people (esp me!).
So to say you "won't be back if it's run like that again" is boll!x. What you should say is you won't race if PT are doing the timing again. Give WW their dues and bash precision timing somewhere else.

dermo1990

Thanks Michael and all at Wexford Wheelers for putting this on, easily the toughest and most fun two days I've ever had on a bike! The courses were challenging and very well marked for potholes,etc and racing felt very safe thanks to some brilliant marshalling. With the amount of attention to detail you guys gave to this, I will very likely come back next year.

That was my first A4 stage race, so I was only looking to survive the 2 days of "torture" you had planned for us, didn't go in expecting a placing on GC, so that was a bit of a pleasant surprise (got 6th

)!

I probably should've done a bit more research into accommodation though, myself and a teammate ended up spinning out about 20km to the two race stages...the town was somewhat hillier than I thought it would be, at least I now know for next time :P

pprendeville

I think some of the comments here are a bit unfair, and while not directed at Michael himself, I'm sure he's taking it to heart which I think is unfair considering the amount of work he has put into this event.

I didn't finish Stage 1 but was allowed to continue. I didn't see my name on the PDF list posted up here but I'm sure I can get it sorted out. Every problem has a solution. This is the 1st year of the race and it was never expected that it would run flawlessly. Lets look at the positive here:

- Lots ofsponsors for this race which is great forcycling in general (big thanks to Staffords especially)
- prizes looked good, stages were well thought out and distances were appropriate (TT had been tried and tested and it was a super route and the figure of 8 circuit was brilliant although painful)
- the organisation of the race was 2nd to none with boards.ie giving the platform for open communication with the race organisers (what other races do this, maybe Kilmessan could take note of this where there was a big crash in A4s last week)-
the info for each stage was great (maps in advance and good descriptions and thanks to Cramcycle for his erosion of the TT route)
- physios on site post race
- parking not allowed at finish (SERC GP take note although it will be argued people shouldn't neon the wrong side of the road but that's what happens I every sprint I've ever seen - a whole train went on the RHS yesterday for the bunch sprint)
- excellent marshalling particularly in Adamstown where cyclists were allowed take the inside of the traffic bollard
- stage finish had a proper feel to it with the gantry clearly marking it and making it visible for the gallop
- we were never swamped with motorbike marshals, I remember up in Newry they kept coming up the outside beeping horns and it was pretty annoying although I understand it was a safety thing but it was nice not to have this during the race and I never felt in danger (apart from stage 1 when I could barely see in the rain at one stage)
- banter among the people in Wexford was great.

Possible negatives for me were few and far between
- thought the race number material wasn't great. The material CI uses on their numbers is more sdurable. Had topint it on in a few places every day because it ripped (very minor complaint)
- race results. Not a biggie for me personally but I understand it is not ideal but I'm sure it won't happen again. Mistakes were made, lets learn and move on.
- for me the Maldron wasn't a great experience. A few customer service issues including not being allowed to get a blanket for our baby for some reason. Hotel policy. This is obviously not Wexford Wheelers problem but I won't be coming back here again next year. Now the Ferrycarrig was where we should have been. I think that's why ActualParamdeic won to be honest coz this where he stayed.

Anyway, fair p.ay to Wexford Wheelers on promoting and hosting the race. Thank you so much for giving us this opportunity to race. Hopefully, I'll be back next year and finish all 3 stages. Also, Fair play to all the Swords riders withmanwithaplan 1st A3 in Galway, John Rowan the new A3national champ and ActualParamedic getting the win yesterday and going up to A3.

DKO

I totally agree with Slo, I thought that WW did a fine job in organising this race, they even went a step further and used chip timing which many looked for. So this aspect didnt work out perfectly, as Slo pointed out this was not the organisers fault. I have buddies who organise a wide range of sporting events that use different types of electronic timing and as far as I can see many are troublesome. If the club chooses to use electronic timing again they will have had the experience of this event to help improve things or select an alternative timing company. They had the photo finish back up anyway if there were any arguements at the business end of things, the rest of us made up the numbers and everyone knows how they personnaly performed and probably have more data than NASA to analyse thanks to Garmins etc. Official timings were a bonus. If this race goes again next year and I'm still able, I'll be along. Thanks again to all at Wexford Wheelers.

Aodho

Slo_Rida wrote: »

I think you should start another thread and moan about precision timing there.
WW played a blinder and put on a great show.
This thread is for the race and one aspect is being shouted about much louder than everything else.
The racing, the course, the facilities etc were perfect and a hard final lap to sort out most people (esp me!).
So to say you "won't be back if it's run like that again" is boll!x. What you should say is you won't race if PT are doing the timing again. Give WW their dues and bash precision timing somewhere else.

Accurate placing and timings are an integral part of any race. W/out them you may as well just run an aggressive sportive. As it's an integral component of the race I think here is the very place for people to express their opinion on that. By your perspective we should open up a separate thread to discuss the wet weather on the first day as it was out of WW’s control. Therefore you seem to be talking boll!x to me.

On a separate (but definitely not unrelated) note Wexford Wheelers put on a fantastic race & went above & beyond the usual. The amount of background work, logistics, etc involved were clearly evident so congratulations & thank you to the whole WW club, especially to Michael Noonan & Dave Allen.

Yes they were obviously let down by a contracted 3rd party; Precision Timing. Fix this component & the calendar would have another great race.

smurphy29

A fantastic race in almost every respect, and teriffically run and organised by Michael and the rest of the Wheelers. Three great circuits, good facilities, good info generally... pretty much everything was great bar the timing fiasco.

There was lots of confusion around over whether bunch times were being used - peole simply didn't know whether they were or not, so I think that message had to be got out to the field in the pre-race briefing.

As for the racing, terrific, if a frustrating weekend for me. Thought my 8.40 in the TT would put me close to the top 10, but blimey there were some sensational times there. Chapeau. A handful of guys would have been high up the A2/3 leaderboard with those efforts. Almost makes you wonder why there are so many bunch sprints when guys have such climbing ability; it's not for a lack of raw talent. Topped it off by finishing just outside the points in the third stage, so finished 13th overall but with nothing to show for it. Pretty much my season in micrcosm!

Plastik

Credit where credit is due, Wexford Wheelers put on a good event. It is most definitely a welcome addition to the calendar. Both stages made for interesting, varied, and tough racing. In particular I thought the marshaling was excellent - a huge number of marshals out on all the corners, traffic was very well controlled and as mentioned, the moto marshalls were never too obtrusive. A lot of effot was clearly put in to the weekend, and my thanks to all.

But it wasn't all smooth sailing and you can't just credit the good while glossing over the bad. To say we should take our gripe with the timing elsewhere is absolute equine manure. It's a race, the timing is the fundamental aspect. Yes, the timing was being run by a company but this was a Wexford Wheelers event, not a Precision Timing event. They were the club that brought the company in, and they rightly deserve the criticism for doing so.

Publishing raw results data is absolutely wrong when it is so blatantly incorrect. What's the point? It just leads to mass confusion. After Stage 1 we were told that group timings were being used - this is the standard in bike racing. Yet after Stage 3 we see published results on StickyBottle with per second timing again. If the information is wrong, do not put it out there. The ps timing also had an effect on GC - a clubmate of mine would have been top 10 in overall A2/A3 having spent 90km up the road yesterday but for it. We (the royal we, maybe some people had) no idea of GC starting the second day either, I could find no information.

Everybody knew, very quickly, after stage 1 that the timing was a fiasco. It should have been taking from Precision Timings hands there and then.

Aodho

Plastik wrote: »

Everybody knew, very quickly, after stage 1 that the timing was a fiasco. It should have been taking from Precision Timings hands there and then.

A pertinent point

fondriest

Actual Paramedic wrote: »

Know the lad that gave you the bike, a kind and easy going lad plus fair play on gibing the bike to make sure you finished and got a time. Showed what the weekend was like, good natured fun and everyone had a great racing experience. Well done to Michael from Lucan and well done to Wexford Wheelers

Yep was happy to get the bike from
Michael even though it was about 3 sizes too big for me . A very nice gesture and I would think he nearly wore out his cleats pushing me when I got on it . Chapeau !

mjpmclean

It seems to me precision timing are more set up for Tri-Athlon/Running/Leisure events. Who does the timing for the Gorey? They seem spot on every year.

Anyway, whole thing was great bar the slip up on the timing. Having to take the yellow jersey back before the stage start must have been horrible for all involved.

What would have been nice would have been more regular time-gap information. We didn't know it was over 3 mins until the last time through Adamstown. Maybe a chalk board on the left after the right turn up the hill after the end of each lap? We were in the dark for a lot of the time and it lead to what the sticky bottle report described as 'no more than sportif pace' which I'm sure would not have been the case had the gaps been more evenly reported.

Other than that, well done to all involved, great event for a first run.

buffalo

mjpmclean wrote: »

It seems to me precision timing are more set up for Tri-Athlon/Running/Leisure events. Who does the timing for the Gorey? They seem spot on every year.

Anyway, whole thing was great bar the slip up on the timing. Having to take the yellow jersey back before the stage start must have been horrible for all involved.

What would have been nice would have been more regular time-gap information. We didn't know it was over 3 mins until the last time through Adamstown. Maybe a chalk board on the left after the right turn up the hill after the end of each lap? We were in the dark for a lot of the time and it lead to what the sticky bottle report described as 'no more than sportif pace' which I'm sure would not have been the case had the gaps been more evenly reported.

Other than that, well done to all involved, great event for a first run.

I heard gaps being shouted at every junction, but usually you need to be at the front to hear them (because it's hard to hear from the middle of the bunch over the noise of all the other riders). Certainly each time through the finish line the gaps were being called regularly.

oakley1973

I think a lot of criticism to the Wheelers about the timing is very unfair. As somebody who has organised plenty of events and I do feel timing chips are the way forward. When you outsource a company and pay big money for them to do a job, well its fair to expect them to do so. It would be different if WW decided to go down to the local corner shop and buy the system themselves and 'gave it ago'. You could argue , well they should have a plan B in place, but why?.... the work the club put in to hold the event was mammoth, so outsourcing the timing to a company till then had a good reputation seems like a logical solution. This was also a clear sign of the clubs intent to hold as a professional race as possible for all concerned. It cant be the clubs fault if they let the side down.

I am pretty sure if the photo finish camera was there, and mistakes were made I am sure these threads would be full of comments asking for timing chips to be used as they are far better etc etc.... Michael did a fine job and the club should be proud of the race, Our club will def be back, because if they sort the rain on the first day and the timing chips.. it will be a perfect stage race for anyone.

Just to note a comment up above re the SERC GP, as regards cars at the finish line etc.... the rider in question who crashed into the cars at the finish was sprinting for 30th place for some reason, swung out wide to avoid riders who sat up and still on the N11, probably the widest finish in the whole CI calendar it still wasn't wide enough. Its worth keeping in mind the same rider did the same thing two weeks prior in the Eddie Tobin and ended up in the ditch. Unless we have the race finish on the Salt Lake flats in Utah it'll happen again

michael196

ok lads. we know the issues.

Tough reading there from those posts.

We know the issues. Let us get on top of them.

Will pass on any query direct to precsion and they will address your issue.

Slo_Rida

michael196 wrote: »

ok lads. we know the issues.

Tough reading there from those posts.

We know the issues. Let us get on top of them.

Will pass on any query direct to precsion and they will address your issue.

And then He spoke, and they listened, and it was good.
Let there be light.

Buddha Star

Plastik wrote: »

Credit where credit is due, Wexford Wheelers put on a good event. It is most definitely a welcome addition to the calendar. Both stages made for interesting, varied, and tough racing. In particular I thought the marshaling was excellent - a huge number of marshals out on all the corners, traffic was very well controlled and as mentioned, the moto marshalls were never too obtrusive. A lot of effot was clearly put in to the weekend, and my thanks to all.

But it wasn't all smooth sailing and you can't just credit the good while glossing over the bad. To say we should take our gripe with the timing elsewhere is absolute equine manure. It's a race, the timing is the fundamental aspect. Yes, the timing was being run by a company but this was a Wexford Wheelers event, not a Precision Timing event. They were the club that brought the company in, and they rightly deserve the criticism for doing so.

Publishing raw results data is absolutely wrong when it is so blatantly incorrect. What's the point? It just leads to mass confusion. After Stage 1 we were told that group timings were being used - this is the standard in bike racing. Yet after Stage 3 we see published results on StickyBottle with per second timing again. If the information is wrong, do not put it out there. The ps timing also had an effect on GC - a clubmate of mine would have been top 10 in overall A2/A3 having spent 90km up the road yesterday but for it. We (the royal we, maybe some people had) no idea of GC starting the second day either, I could find no information.

Everybody knew, very quickly, after stage 1 that the timing was a fiasco. It should have been taking from Precision Timings hands there and then.

Well crafted writing there

REFRESHING! It's All about expectations. If one sees that exact timing is available, it becomes really important. Wouldn't like to be precision timing personnel today. seems to be a gap in the market for a competent cycling timing outfit to clean up.
@Michael196 who could blame you ? seemed as if the personnel from PT were out of their depth. You pay people in good faith and expect professionals. NOT your fault IMO!

smithslist

This explains how much support we had over the week-end....big congrats to all organizers, sponsors and spectators!!!!

buffalo

smithslist wrote: »

This explains how much support we had over the week-end....big congrats to all organizers, sponsors and spectators!!!!

http://tiny.cc/e1m21w

And for those who can't see it:

"My two little mates who encouraged so many up that last 200 metres! Chapeau boys!!"

Darkglasses

For the attention of any fellow hippies/sandal wearers out there, I did most of the clean-up operation this afternoon. Not too much rubbish really but it can be downgraded from "Noticeable" to "Negligible".

daragh_

Darkglasses wrote: »

For the attention of any fellow hippies/sandal wearers out there, I did most of the clean-up operation this afternoon. Not too much rubbish really but it can be downgraded from "Noticeable" to "Negligible".

Fair play!

I saw at least 2 bottles getting chucked from the A4 bunch yesterday. Which I thought was taking things a little seriously given the pace at the time. :-)

Darkglasses

daragh_ wrote: »

Fair play!

I saw at least 2 bottles getting chucked from the A4 bunch yesterday. Which I thought was taking things a little seriously given the pace at the time. :-)

Didn't find any bottles, maybe someone else got them already? I still have a little bit more of the course to do yet though!

I did find some race numbers though, bit extreme weight-shedding I would have thought :pac:

Kebel

Yes, there were some issues, but to be fair to Michael and the other WW club members I know they worked their socks off to make the event as professional as possible.

I am admittedly a (long-time) friend of the Wheelers but I have been around cycling for a while; long enough that I can say I rode the old Snowcream 2 Day as it was known back in the day, and more other one-day and stage races all over this island of ours, over many years, than I care to remember and will say that I think the guys did a superb job. There are very few other (stage) races of any length / duration in this country that approach what was laid on last weekend.

Unfortunatly for reasons outside my control, I wasn’t able to race this year, instead however I decided to try and help out a bit as did others from neighbouring clubs. From my little bit-part at the weekend and the various discussions I had with Michael and co in the weeks leading up to race, I had my eyes opened as to the massive amount of work required and done, by Michael and the various other guys, who supported him along the way to make the race as professional and successful as possible.

There are dozens if not hundreds of things to be managed, almost all of which went perfectly, and indeed many of which the competitors never see (unless that is it they go wrong). For example outside of the locals, I doubt many appreciate that there were a number of crews out over several evenings last week to ensure every single metre of the stage routes were swept clear of gravel. Indeed being in the neutral service car I was pleasantly surprised by how few punctures there were on either day, particularly notable in the wet, when usually rain equals punctures / a busy day for the service car(s).

Admittedly without having spoken with them, I know that the guys will be gutted by the cock-up that ensued following what can only be described as the fiasco that was the timing. As pointed our earlier in this thread, having accurate timing is very important for an event such as this, and we all know that the ensuing confusion led to disappointment for a number of folk, some whom are club mates and/or friends of mine in other clubs. Indeed I know from talking to Michael in the run up to the weekend that it was for this very reason that the Wheelers went to the not inconsiderable expense of hiring “professional” time keepers, to look after this critical task, hindsight, is as always a wonderful thing, and this aside I for one applaud the club for running an otherwise excellent event. That said knowing the personality of all of the WW guys involved, I have no doubt that they are already carrying out a post-mortem to ensure that the appropriate learnings from the weekend are applied to ensure that the Wheelers will be back with a bigger and even better event next year; and I know that I for one will be there again, as will my club, to partake in what was otherwise a brilliant event, and one which deserves to be supported going forward.

Well done guys, looking forward to next one already.

Kebel

fondriest

Well done Darkglasses !

michael196

100% data check and verify going in background now. If u want a job done right..........

Buddha Star

michael196 wrote: »

100% data check and verify going in background now. If u want a job done right..........

Good for YOU! In fairness looking at their CV i'd be mighty impressed http://precisiontiming.primo-solutions.co.uk/ps/event/listings

Aodho

michael196 wrote: »

100% data check and verify going in background now. If u want a job done right..........

Fair play Michael, from a racing perspective alone it was a great event. From an organisational efforts viewpoint you really have set a new standard. Your club should be very proud of you.

buffalo

Buddha Star wrote: »

Good for YOU! In fairness looking at their CV i'd be mighty impressed http://precisiontiming.primo-solutions.co.uk/ps/event/listings

I don't know - they can't even spell 'Calendar' correctly. Although I now know that a calender is "a machine in which cloth or paper is pressed by rollers to glaze or smooth it". Interesting.

Morrisseeee

buffalo wrote: »

And for those who can't see it:

"My two little mates who encouraged so many up that last 200 metres! Chapeau boys!!"

That's a great photo, but..................I don't remember seeing them...........doh! :eek::pac:

DKO

daragh_ wrote: »

Fair play!

I saw at least 2 bottles getting chucked from the A4 bunch yesterday. Which I thought was taking things a little seriously given the pace at the time. :-)

I chucked a bottle from the A4 bunch on Saturday, but it was aimed at my kids, just to give them a chuckle and something to go look for... there was no threat of 'bounce back', that situation where a lad fecks his bottle in the ditch only to see it bounce back into the bunch causing consternation as it spins around amongst the wheels... I'm afraid I am too tight to feck my bottles away... I also have to say I threw my bottle with some 'aplomb'... probably the best thing I did over the weekend unfortunately...

boege

michael196 wrote: »

100% data check and verify going in background now. If u want a job done right..........

Michael,
Good to hear you are checking the data.

Can I suggest you email the entrants with the draft revised results and give people a time limited opportunity to comment. You dont have to accept all comments but it will allow you to check you have considered everyone's concerns, or at least those that bothered to reply.

Best of luck with it I dont envy where you are at now.