Sam Swarek wrote: » not a nice way for him to go alright and hopefully it wont upset his clubmates involved in the panel. nobody can doubt his passion and commitment to Waterford and the players wont look good coming out of this.
Junior D wrote: » Picked up on this myself, must be Mullane? I'd bet that if DoC came in now as manager, Mullane would be announcing his comeback. If something along those lines was to happen, I'd lose a lot a respect for the man
Mountainlad wrote: » I think people are clutching at straws trying to make Jason Ryan out as a candidate with a lot to offer. Did a brilliant job with the Wexford footballers, but to be honest I think the players would be pretty bemused by and large if he was appointed. He seems like a top lad, but it would be a massive gamble and realistically I can't see it happening.
robopaddy wrote: » Also we did some incredibly daft things like trying to clear the ball first time in the air when it was easier to catch it and think about it before we strike it and pulling on it along the ground when it should be picked up. Whether it was showboating or nerves I dont know but its something that has been consistent throughout the year and its another thing that management should be drilling into these lads that it just isnt on. I thought KK were much more disciplined, organised and better drilled but I think we had more quality hurlers to get us over the line.
hardybuck wrote: » First off - well done to the minors. However, this team are really frustrating to watch. Their decision making was awful at times. Without naming names, it looked like a few lads knew they were on tv and were looking to turn on the style. Shot selection and use of possession in particular need to be looked at by management.
lovelypoint wrote: » I don't think I agree. The day where one man was all things is gone, and rightfully so, imo. We expected Justin to be all things, and while he brought us close to the top, he never had it all to bring us all the way. These days, I think the management team is the most important, with the manager holding it all together. Once we have a management that can ensure we can win ball, attack, defend, make sure we are fit enough, possess the tactical nous to setup teams and respond during games, blood young players, make hard calls, and hold it all together, I personally would not care if it was 1 man or 5 we had on the sidelines.
Psychedelic wrote: » It was frustrating watching the fancy stuff go wrong, but I think a certain amount of flare should be encouraged, just need to get the balance right and know when not to attempt anything too risky - minor level perfect to learn that before they get to senior. It won't always work out and looks bad but sometimes it will work and it's amazing to watch - and we want that don't we? Like in soccer, how many times do you see a player e.g. Messi, Van Persi etc lose the ball by trying a fancy flick or miss a dubious long-range shot, but their moments of brilliance wouldn't happen if they didn't try. Do we want a Waterford team who plays it totally safe & sensible or a team that plays with at least a bit of style?
Mountainlad wrote: » Not undermining the job he's done, I think it's fantastic. Just saying we're not very patient here. Struck me as odd that a poster above said whoever comes in next won't get the same patience, that we'll need to be pushing for an all-ireland in the next 5 years. Personally, I think if he has 5 years without winning an all-ireland in Waterford than the sky will turn green and the grass blue.
hardybuck wrote: » That would be me. I stand by it. Whoever comes in won't be coming into a team which faced the same challenges during Ryan's tenure. They'll have a group of players, although young, have been blooded, some further additions from strong minor & U21 sides, and the prospect of some talented senior players coming in for a couple more seasons. I think the next five to ten years in hurling will be extremely open, we may well see a return to the 90's scenario where the likes of Dublin, Clare & Limerick will all pick off titles, with the odd one for the likes of Cork & Tipp. If we aren't in there challenging among that group we're going wrong somewhere.
Mountainlad wrote: » I agree that one man can not run the show these days. I just don't see where Jason's credentials lie there. He hasn't a hurling background. You could say the same about Michael Ryan, but I wouldn't advise anyone to make that argument given the players have seemingly just voted him out! But yeah I think these days you need to look at a management team rather than just a manager. Also, the hoganstand article was obviously based on this Examiner article, but more detail in it http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/waterford-player-power-forces-ryan-out-239576.html
Mountainlad wrote: » Naturally. I agree with you, just I don't see how the next manager god be getting less patience if he had 5 years without us winning an all-ireland when Ryan had 2. I don't think you will see a manager last 3 years without at least an all-ireland final appearance or something pretty big like.
Brad1234 wrote: » Thanks for all you have done Michael but a change was needed.. Hurling people will see what is wrong bogeys on here will see a extra time loss to KK as an achievement.. He deserves respect for what he has done but his tactical awareness was clueless.. Throwing on Tony Browne v KK for Darragh fives who was probably MOTM was clueless at best and he was initially putting him on Full forward to lift the crowd haha.. We need a proper coach with good structure top class touch training like cork.. Our Template is Cork cause we always play like cork.. So there are in an all ireland final now are they really miles better than us.. No there not but they have a top class man in charge with an excellent backroom team and the players know exactly where they are going.. Now look at us.. At times this year when the game was there for the taking we looked clueless on the pitch or on the line.. he had Seamus Prender v KK as two in the inside line and he they were pinging balls from Corner to corner for a 33 year old to chase.. Can anyone not see the problem with that.. So you can huff and puff about how a lovely man ryan is and im sure he is but whats that got to do with waterford hurling? He brought fives back on then in extra time v KK and brought in Shane Walsh who couldnt walk? V Clare they missed a rake of scores in the second half and he told them with 20 mins to go to push up the field and the game in the melting pot.. Come on people leave your personal agendas aside just cause he may have said hello to you on the street.. This is waterford hurling which we want to be the best.. if you want to be the best you need to have the best people around the group which we certainly dont.. For the record i have from great authority they didnt want him out just backroom team to be shaken up and next they heard he was gone... Minors is another great example superb win yesterday but are they winning cause they are just that good cause to me (and i havent missed a game) they make the same mistakes over and over again.. What are the backroom team doing.. Going for goals when point is on.. Keepers puckouts are all over the place.. Some players unbelievably lucky to be still starting? over emphasis on handpassing and delivery to the forwards when its good scores come (prob 10 good balls out of at least 40 goes in) So i dont care what club you are or who you're friendly with this is waterford hurling.. If had a family member who was involved and they were poor id tell him not cover it up cause i know him well.. Waterford hurling is bigger than anyone so leave your agendas aside.. Sick of people on here barking on about how Ryan was hung out to dry when he most certainly wasn't and i commend his work but he wasnt going to bring us any further..
hardybuck wrote: » We're on the same page here, you misunderstand my point slightly. Winning Munster titles and going close in AI's semi's or finals would get you some patience. As much as I respect Ryan for battling through a tough period, in 2012 we conceded 7 goals in a Munster final, lost an all Ireland quarter last year in which we weren't helped by some poor selections. In 2013 we go out of Munster pretty tamely in our first game, and don't make it out of the qualifiers. A cold, results based assessment of things on paper is that Waterford went backwards in those two years, albeit doing right things along the way which will benefit us in the future, hopefully.
Mountainlad wrote: » That was 2011 under Davy Fitzgerald, when he decided Brick was a corner back, Noel Connors was a full back, Jerome Maher was the man to mark Corbett, and Eoin McGrath was our best way of negating Paudie Mahers influence. I guess you might be right, but I dunno. It depends on the manner of how we achieve our results. If the team is horrible to watch then patience might wear thin.
Brad1234 wrote: » Tell me what pattern of play we were going to last season so? i can tell what plan limerick cork dubs clare KK have.. Tell me what waterford had? We have great players in our team probably of a more of a team ethic than players gone by which is the way hurling has changed to now... So come on tell me? And he wasnt so injured to role back on in extra time? it was a knock he could run off and actually ran off
hardybuck wrote: » You are indeed correct. I'm mixing up my years. In 2012 we lost to Tipp again in the final by 7 points. My overall assessment of Ryan would be positive. He battled through a difficult period. He never had the full respect of fans and probably the players which didn't help him either. I think he could have had a good year with the team in 2014 given the chance. The 'Waterford style' as we have come to know is only a recent thing, and was brought about by the individuals who were had available to us in the late 90's/00's, i.e. marquee forwards and a leaky defence. You've got to pick a style and tactics around players we have available at the time, and that's what the next manager needs to do.
robopaddy wrote: » Stop undermining the intelligence of the regular posters here saying that they only like skully because they like him as a person implying that they know nothing about hurling management. No one has ever said he is perfect and didnt make mistakes in his time. People appreciate the effort he has put in and what he did for Waterford hurling and the common feeling is that he did as good as anyone else could have done during his tenure and did not deserve to be undermined in this way. Its so easy to blame him like you are doing for the 2 defeats to Clare and KK but the players have to take responsiblity aswell. We threw in the towel against Clare with 10 mins to go and it wasnt Skully Ryans fault we hit wide after wide against KK in the second half knowing that the game was there for the taking. Maurice Shanahan missing a free in front of the goals 20 yards out... not singling him out either but if the players were men enough to look at the managers performance and judge it I hope they looked at their own aswell PS Darragh Fives got injured against KK
robopaddy wrote: » Im not a master tactician like yourself but we got it pretty much spot on against KK as far as I can see. Yes we did play the ball low into the corners a lot of the time but this is helped keep us in the game imo at least at least gave us a fighting chance of winning possession the alternative was high balls down on top of tommy walsh, kieran joyce, and Brian Hogan. We didnt seal the deal because we couldnt puck the damn ball over the bar plain and simple. We won enough possession to win the game we got that much right but the forwards just werent near good enough on the night.
hardybuck wrote: » The balls going in were ok, but they were too often played into a channel which was occupied by Seamus Prender, who just hadn't the pace to get to half of them. That made no sense at all.
robopaddy wrote: » Im not a master tactician like yourself but we got it pretty much spot on against KK as far as I can see. Yes we did play the ball low into the corners a lot of the time but this is helped keep us in the game imo at least at least gave us a fighting chance of winning possession the alternative was high balls down on top of tommy walsh, kieran joyce, and Brian Hogan. We didnt seal the deal because we couldnt puck the damn ball over the bar plain and simple. We won enough possession to win the game we got that much right but the forwards just werent near good enough on the night. With regard to Fives the player was injured and not fit to play on at that time and a lad called Tony Browne on the bench... of course your going to take him off. If the knock had been shaken off by the time extra time came on why wouldnt you bring him back on. I dont see whats hard to understand about it
Brad1234 wrote: » On Fives issue he 'jogged off to the sideline and told Ryan he was fine.. Maybe exuberance of youth but looked ok to me.. Ryan had ants in his pants to get Tony on which again i dont agree with and it was playing to the gallery and media stuff which is poor mgmt.. Low ball into corners to which it came back out quick smart.. How many scores did we get from play and did the inside line get.. Why would you put your best ball winner in a two man line where pace be needed. Lets not be fooled by we played low ball that game plan stopped after about 20 mins and we played plenty of looping balls into forwards with seamus in corner forward for large chunks of it.. Tommy Walsh and joyce plucked a nice chunk of ball through that game.. If we were going with that short game plan you cant just introduce it in a week... That needed to be done early season which to be fair had been started in the league but after KK league game it was stopped due to errors which again is par for the course in poor conditions but you perfect it during that time.. Again had a plan two errors dump it even though it worked well for large chunks in nowlan park is poor mgmt in my eyes.. Lets stick the facts of it here instead of sniping 'master tactician' comments.. I think ryan did an adaquate job but wont bring them on further simply my case
