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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Daysha

2009 - 2011 thread here

This is our year

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rebel girl 15

deise_girl wrote: »

Martin Kiely ‏@MartinKiely1 1h
Waterford players had a meeting this morning and as a result Michael Ryan stepped down. sad way for a g8t GAA to go@RTEgaa.
https://twitter.com/MartinKiely1/status/366670224398888960

Thats the reason so, pity because he was on for another year for definite and board members had backed him as well

rebel girl 15

culbaire wrote: »

John Mullane chose not to play with Waterford as was his right. It is time to forget about him. No one player is more important than the team. That is the way it is in the really successful counties. That is the way it must be in Waterford if we are to win an All Ireland.

It was fairly late in the day that he finally decided not to play with Waterford, even though the door was left open for him. There was no falling out, both men sat down and spoke about things, and it was left in Mullane's court.

Mr Tibbs

Here we have an organisation that is always complaining that not enough people from their parishes don't do enough. Little wonder why.

Sam Swarek

deise_girl wrote: »

Martin Kiely ‏@MartinKiely1 1h
Waterford players had a meeting this morning and as a result Michael Ryan stepped down. sad way for a g8t GAA to go@RTEgaa.
https://twitter.com/MartinKiely1/status/366670224398888960

I dunno why there is so many plaudits here for Michael Ryan, fair play and thanks for doing the job etc but he was out of his depth, from knowing panel members, they all said quietly he was a disaster and some of the stories I heard read like a story from a d'unbelievables sketch, which is no good at this level. Yes Scully is a passionate Waterford man etc but we need more than that, we need a clever manager who has experience playing and managing at that level, one who is tactically astute, a man manager and motivator, none of these qualities Scully is in possession of.
Queally and Sean Cullinane are disasters too, I've worked with them in the past, great servants to the county and all that but they aren't much good when it comes to managing and training.
The county board is broke so ye all may forget about a marquee name like Liam Sheedy or money man O Grady coming in there.
Jason Ryan, forget about it too, the fact he is from De la Salle, a strong hurling club is a non sensical argument too, he has never played any level of hurling, hes a football man and these 2 codes are completely different, this isn't a club junior team we're on about here where the same club stalwart can manage both codes, so stop with the idiotic comments regarding his name please!!
That fairly leaves our options fairly limited. Ger Cunningham (Knockainey, Limerick & UL) not the Cork Ger Cunningham (whom I presume a lot of ye uneducated think is the same man) should be considered a serious candidate, maybe some one young like Donal Og whos young, enthuasiastic, not long out of the game, whos articulate and intelligent about hurling and is mad to cut his teeth at this level could be found a roll also.
Paul Flynn again would be a disaster, maybe a forwards coach or advisor roll would be his limit, but I think Flynner would be more interested in driving to Down and getting a nice few quid in the process and fair play to him, that's his prerogative.
That leaves maybe Skin Ryan or Derek McGrath, Skin I don't think is up to it and maybe Derek needs a few more years, but I'm in no doubt that if Derek was involved in some capacity that Mullane would line out next year.
Interesting times ahead, as I said Scully was only ever a stop gap, we didn't make any progress under him and any one saying that we did is off their head, he maintained the team and blooded a few young lads. The players didn't want him after this year so that says it all.

Professey Chin

deise_girl wrote: »

Martin Kiely ‏@MartinKiely1 1h
Waterford players had a meeting this morning and as a result Michael Ryan stepped down. sad way for a g8t GAA to go@RTEgaa.
https://twitter.com/MartinKiely1/status/366670224398888960

I heard the complete opposite that the players had a meeting in the Ramada sunday morning and wanted him to stay on

seananigans

Anthony Daly is free, he might wanty something to do while waiting on the Clare job to free up ,unlike davy he doesnt need to learn fomr us and likely would appreciate the shorter commute

robopaddy

alllcounty wrote: »

They got 10 points from frees in 60mins by running at us. It was similar to the limerick games. I thought the coner backs did well and the full back did well in the second half but it wasn't the full back line that was over fouling. The problem is when they run at the team from midfield and their half forwards that a pull back occurs or needless swipe at their hand when they go up for the ball. What do you suggest the backroom staff do?

I think a bit of know-how and common sence is needed in these situations and when your talking about kids they lack that bit of experience and the guidance has to come from the management. In this situation we were consistently giving away needless frees throughout the game when it was obvious that KK had an extrememly accurate free taker and was going to miss very little if nothing at all. Every foul as good as a score. Whether management tried to relay this message across I dont know but there was no need as I think our full back line had the measure of every ball that came in at them and KK were heavily reliant on no. 13 Murphy for scores from fress. We were lacking a bit of cuteness but nonetheless we got through anyway.

Also we did some incredibly daft things like trying to clear the ball first time in the air when it was easier to catch it and think about it before we strike it and pulling on it along the ground when it should be picked up. Whether it was showboating or nerves I dont know but its something that has been consistent throughout the year and its another thing that management should be drilling into these lads that it just isnt on. I thought KK were much more disciplined, organised and better drilled but I think we had more quality hurlers to get us over the line.

robopaddy

Chinpool wrote: »

I heard the complete opposite that the players had a meeting in the Ramada sunday morning and wanted him to stay on

This makes even less sense now! I suppose were all only second guessing at this stage Id imagine he will do an interview sometime this week possibly on Game On at 7 this evening or maybe even championship matters and we will know more.

As regards his replacement its way too early to predict, all the obvious names are being bandied about but I think it wont be straight forward as that. Im not that confident that there is enough top quality experienced men within the county at the moment and I dont think the funds are there to bring in a high profile name like an O'Grady a Sheedy or a Daly. I think we could do worse to look North of the river Suir there are some serious men up there who never got a look in at senior level in there own county as obviously the messiah is in charge there.
My point being the right man dosent necessarily need to be high profile or from within. I think someone who has been a winner in the game and has a winning mentality is what we should be looking out for.

hardybuck

First off - well done to the minors. However, this team are really frustrating to watch. Their decision making was awful at times. Without naming names, it looked like a few lads knew they were on tv and were looking to turn on the style. Shot selection and use of possession in particular need to be looked at by management. They won't win an All Ireland by relying on pumping ball into the full forward line, teams will be good enough now to counteract that. I'd be concerned by how much aerial and breaking ball around midfield that KK hoovered up. This team seem to be a bit Jeckyl & Hyde, hopefully this will bring them on for the final, and isn't it great to be beating KK for the 3rd time in a row at minor level!

To the Michael Ryan situation. I think he can come out of it with his head held high. He put in two difficult years in which he facilitated a huge amount of transition. He and his team went out and gave 100% any time I saw them play.

Whoever gets the role now won't get as much patience I'd imagine. This is a team which should be expected to push on, and with how events in 2013 transpired, we'll feel that we could realistically push for an All Ireland within the next five years.

I think Mullane should be left out of this debate also. He had his own reasons for not toggingo out in 2013, and that's his business. I think it's grossly unfair that people are criticising him considering the service he's given to the county, and I seriously doubt that he had any influence on the management situation.

Just on the Jason Ryan situation, just to point out that he did play senior club hurling as someone said he played to no standard. To other people who say he'd be a crazy appointment, I always point to Sean Boylan in Meath. A hurling man who went on to become on of the most successful football managers of all time. I'd also point to people like Cian O'Neill, who is widely regarded as the top football coach in the country and currently working with Kerry, but if you talk to anyone associated with the Tipp hurlers, they'll credit him as being hugely influential to the Sheedy management team which won the All Ireland in 2010.

I think Paul Flynn would be a useful voice in a management team. He's very well respected in Down and Carlow. I think Derek McGrath should only be considered as a selector - he's plenty to learn yet, and I wouldn't trust his judgement too greatly, particularly with the whole 3.3.1 fiasco.

My personal choice would be Donal Og Cusack. I don't think the game has seen anyone more driven to win. His analysis skills on the Sunday game have impressed me. Alas, I doubt that we would have a budget sufficient to attract him.

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

Anthony Daly is free,

is he?

Sam Swarek

Jason Ryan may have had the odd run out at senior level for DLS but was never a prominent hurler for them. Referencing Sean Boylan, he took charge of Meath approx. 25+ years ago, different times completely. Cian O Neill is a trainer, not a manager, if Jason Ryan was employed in a similar role by Waterford I'd say fair enough, but we are talking about the Managers position here. Re Paul Flynn, again in some sort of specific coaching / advisory capacity, he doesn't have the experience for anything more and as Ive said already, id imagine Flynner would be happier getting a larger wage in Down or the likes for the time being.
McGrath will someday be manager please god, but a selector roll to start out with, he still has a fair amount to learn.
Maybe a look to Kilkenny would be no harm in fairness?! im anti kk as the next Waterford man but Im pro Waterford and if looking to kk is the best solution then Im all for it.(even if its just to see a kk man parading the sideline wearing Waterford colours lol)

seananigans

robopaddy wrote: »

is he?

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/anthony-daly-unsure-dublin-future-1032507-Aug2013/

TGV

Oh no here we go again. I think the expectation on Ryan this year was unrealistic. We were never going to win an All-Ireland with the team available for selection. Not even close. He did a very good job in bringing in the younger players and also allowing the players to use their quality and skill of hurling. Three players which would have increased the quality of the team were unavailable Molumphy, Shane Walsh and Daniels and I guess you can also add Richie Foley here also.
I really don’t like to read about player power, player power got us Davy….negative boring hurling, suffered two of the worst defeats in recent memory and lost the talents of Flynn, Shanahan and Ken McGrath earlier than necessary.
I think after the dust settles Ryan’s lasting legacy is that he wasn’t able to make Mullane stay and play for the team. Davy was happy to get rid of the older players; Ryan appeared to always leave the door open to Mullane, but it was Mullane’s decision. I have very little time for Loughnane but I am binging to think he was right about Mullane. I respected his decision at the start of the year (family, time on the clock, stress) but as the year goes on I think he has let himself down. If you retire you retire, that means you have no public say in the running of the team or waiting for a phone call, you can’t have it both ways.
I for one will be very disappointed if it turns out that ex-players and silly GAA politic have got us to this stage. We have a very talented bunch of players in Waterford at the moment, but a “broke county board”, “player power” and unnecessary comments and pressure from ex-players could put our possibility of winning an All-Ireland further away than ever.

BTW: well done to the minors…you did us proud – Waterford hurling in September is a rare event – enjoy every minute and let hope you can go on to be All-Ireland Champions.

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/anthony-daly-unsure-dublin-future-1032507-Aug2013/

I would be surprised if he wanted to jump ship after 5 years with the dubs. To be honest its not like it would be a step up for him realistically Dublin are ahead of us at the moment. Youd think if he didnt want to give it another year with them anyone in the right mind would want to step back from it for a year or 2 before taking the reigns somewhere else. It must be mentally draining as much as anything else.

Sam Swarek

robopaddy wrote: »

I would be surprised if he wanted to jump ship after 5 years with the dubs. To be honest its not like it would be a step up for him realistically Dublin are ahead of us at the moment. Youd think if he didnt want to give it another year with them anyone in the right mind would want to step back from it for a year or 2 before taking the reigns somewhere else. It must be mentally draining as much as anything else.

Daly getting good grade there too that he wouldn't get in other counties. very likable fella is Daly.

hardybuck

Sam Swarek wrote: »

Jason Ryan may have had the odd run out at senior level for DLS but was never a prominent hurler for them. Referencing Sean Boylan, he took charge of Meath approx. 25+ years ago, different times completely. Cian O Neill is a trainer, not a manager, if Jason Ryan was employed in a similar role by Waterford I'd say fair enough, but we are talking about the Managers position here. Re Paul Flynn, again in some sort of specific coaching / advisory capacity, he doesn't have the experience for anything more and as Ive said already, id imagine Flynner would be happier getting a larger wage in Down or the likes for the time being.
McGrath will someday be manager please god, but a selector roll to start out with, he still has a fair amount to learn.
Maybe a look to Kilkenny would be no harm in fairness?! im anti kk as the next Waterford man but Im pro Waterford and if looking to kk is the best solution then Im all for it.(even if its just to see a kk man parading the sideline wearing Waterford colours lol)

Took over 25 years ago and remained in charge until 2005. If anything, hurling and football have become far closer in those years, as hurling has tried to emulate football tactics and fitness levels. Cian O'Neill is a trainer who will become a manager, it's just a matter of who gives him the role.

I don't see Ken McGrath as manager at any stage. I don't think it'd suit him. Selector role yes.

If we went down the road of lads like Queally or Hartley I wouldn't be too enthused either.

What names would be knocking around KK anyway? Don't say Eddie O'Connor...

seananigans

robopaddy wrote: »

I would be surprised if he wanted to jump ship after 5 years with the dubs. To be honest its not like it would be a step up for him realistically Dublin are ahead of us at the moment. Youd think if he didnt want to give it another year with them anyone in the right mind would want to step back from it for a year or 2 before taking the reigns somewhere else. It must be mentally draining as much as anything else.

I would be surprised too, but the CB would have to sound him out ,would be silly not to .

5 years is a long time with a team, and likely he does have one eye on being the Clare boss ,if the appointment was on his terms say a get out clause when the Clare job comes ,it might just happen

alllcounty

Sam Swarek wrote: »

I dunno why there is so many plaudits here for Michael Ryan, fair play and thanks for doing the job etc but he was out of his depth, from knowing panel members, they all said quietly he was a disaster and some of the stories I heard read like a story from a d'unbelievables sketch, which is no good at this level. Yes Scully is a passionate Waterford man etc but we need more than that, we need a clever manager who has experience playing and managing at that level, one who is tactically astute, a man manager and motivator, none of these qualities Scully is in possession of.
Queally and Sean Cullinane are disasters too, I've worked with them in the past, great servants to the county and all that but they aren't much good when it comes to managing and training.
The county board is broke so ye all may forget about a marquee name like Liam Sheedy or money man O Grady coming in there.
Jason Ryan, forget about it too, the fact he is from De la Salle, a strong hurling club is a non sensical argument too, he has never played any level of hurling, hes a football man and these 2 codes are completely different, this isn't a club junior team we're on about here where the same club stalwart can manage both codes, so stop with the idiotic comments regarding his name please!!
That fairly leaves our options fairly limited. Ger Cunningham (Knockainey, Limerick & UL) not the Cork Ger Cunningham (whom I presume a lot of ye uneducated think is the same man) should be considered a serious candidate, maybe some one young like Donal Og whos young, enthuasiastic, not long out of the game, whos articulate and intelligent about hurling and is mad to cut his teeth at this level could be found a roll also.
Paul Flynn again would be a disaster, maybe a forwards coach or advisor roll would be his limit, but I think Flynner would be more interested in driving to Down and getting a nice few quid in the process and fair play to him, that's his prerogative.
That leaves maybe Skin Ryan or Derek McGrath, Skin I don't think is up to it and maybe Derek needs a few more years, but I'm in no doubt that if Derek was involved in some capacity that Mullane would line out next year.
Interesting times ahead, as I said Scully was only ever a stop gap, we didn't make any progress under him and any one saying that we did is off their head, he maintained the team and blooded a few young lads. The players didn't want him after this year so that says it all.

We know where you stand with michael ryan. Under your previous username "manfromcheese" you constantly knocked him and wouldn't give him a chance. After the offaly game you gave up posting. Now your back with a different username making up bullsh*t you heard stories. Cop yourself on man and give michael the respect he deserves. Inside and outside the county people had good things to say about him and the style of hurling he tryed to reintroduce since the last management. He deserves alot better than d*ckheads like you.

robopaddy

hardybuck wrote: »

Took over 25 years ago and remained in charge until 2005. If anything, hurling and football have become far closer in those years, as hurling has tried to emulate football tactics and fitness levels. Cian O'Neill is a trainer who will become a manager, it's just a matter of who gives him the role.

I don't see Ken McGrath as manager at any stage. I don't think it'd suit him. Selector role yes.

If we went down the road of lads like Queally or Hartley I wouldn't be too enthused either.

What names would be knocking around KK anyway? Don't say Eddie O'Connor...

Yea I dont think any of the Waterford names mentioned above are realistic candidates at this stage anyway.

From Kilkenny Id be thinking of guys like Richie Mulrooney, Michael Walsh, James McGarry. A guy called Niall Rigney a Laois man living in KK aswell a top class hurling man, won a couple of KK counties with James Stephens. Im thinking these lads because they really know their stuff, are in close proximity to the county and wouldnt cost a bomb to bring them in either.

Also people might laugh at me but Joe Dooley I think is a class manager was on a hiding to nothing with Offaly but always thought Id love to see him with a team of better players

PTH2009

i think Nicky Cashin would be a bad choice because the man was voted out twice by the players in 2008 and 2012 when he was selector.

I dont think we have the money for Donal Og Cuasack or Donal Og Grady.

John Myler could be a good choice

Sam Swarek

alllcounty wrote: »

We know where you stand with michael ryan. Under your previous username "manfromcheese" you constantly knocked him and wouldn't give him a chance. After the offaly game you gave up posting. Now your back with a different username making up bullsh*t you heard stories. Cop yourself on man and give michael the respect he deserves. Inside and outside the county people had good things to say about him and the style of hurling he tryed to reintroduce since the last management. He deserves alot better than d*ckheads like you.

I was banned because a moderator didn't agree with a post of mine and I was too lazy in between to reregister!
I can assure you that they are not made up stories and I have been told stories / incidents by several panel members.
I havnt disrespected Scully, I never thought he was up to the job and he wasn't, some people here obviously fancy the man as a hurling manager, me and a lot more don't, that's our prerogative. any fella that gives up his time to play or manage deserves respect, I respect him for doing his best for Waterford but I don't rate him at all.
People inside and outside the county had plenty negative to say about him also so I guess it depends on who your talking to so doesn't it?!!!

Deise_2012

I might go onto dragons den and ask them for a couple of grand to get Liam Sheedy on board! Lads in fairness he or Donal Og would be the only appointments I'd like to see, from hearing different stories over what happened yesterday, Michael Ryan was offered a 1 year deal but wanted 2 which was turned down, so he left, but the other story I'm hearing is that the players voted him out. I'm not too sure about the latter as I thought he was getting on very well with the younger lads and the likes of Kevin Moran, Liam Lawlor and Brick were playing out of their skin. So if the 1st story is the real reason it's pretty pointless appointing the likes of Ken Mcgrath or Peter Quelly as we're back to where we where 2 years ago in my opinion

Sam Swarek

We saw the sterling job Queally did with the intermediates and u21s this year, don't worry, hes not a serious candidate, only people on a forum bandying about names is all.

Junior D

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=198519

Sorry guys, don't know if this has been thrown up yet.
Basically says Ryan was pushed through player power. Very surprised by that, would've thought that they had a lot of respect for him as a manager, but I guess not

Sam Swarek

alllcounty wrote: »

Inside and outside the county people had good things to say about him and the style of hurling he tryed to reintroduce since the last management.

Well the players obviously saw different and id hazard a guess that they'd know best!!

Sam Swarek

Junior D wrote: »

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=198519

Sorry guys, don't know if this has been thrown up yet.
Basically says Ryan was pushed through player power. Very surprised by that, would've thought that they had a lot of respect for him as a manager, but I guess not

there's having respect and wanting better, players have a short career and they want success, they obviously felt Ryan wasn't the man to help them achieve that.

Junior D

Tbh, I think with the players there atm he's done pretty good with them and I couldn't see any other manager doing much better. Think myself that he deserved to have another year, and if no more progress was made, then fair enough bring in someone new.
But the job he's done bringing in fresh, young blood and still having them somewhat competitive deserved another year imo

robopaddy

Junior D wrote: »

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=198519

Sorry guys, don't know if this has been thrown up yet.
Basically says Ryan was pushed through player power. Very surprised by that, would've thought that they had a lot of respect for him as a manager, but I guess not

This dosent look good at all......

Feel very sorry for him if thats the case, didnt deserve that. Has always been a real players man and if the pleyers have ousted him it will hurt him deeply. Very surprised at the Waterford players thought the ego's of old had all been moved on. Obviously not. I note the reference to '2012 players' theres only one man with the influence there....

This will run pretty deep as Ryan has close ties to some of the Waterford players and that cant have gone down well. This saga isnt over by a long shot... if what were led to beleive is true.

Junior D

robopaddy wrote: »

This dosent look good at all......

Feel very sorry for him if thats the case, didnt deserve that. Has always been a real players man and if the pleyers have ousted him it will hurt him deeply. Very surprised at the Waterford players though the ego's of old had all moved on. Obviously not. I note the reference to '2012 players' theres only one man with the influence there....

This will run pretty deep as Ryan has close ties to some of the Waterford players and that cant have gone down well. This saga isnt over by a long shot... if what were led to beleive is true.

Picked up on this myself, must be Mullane?
I'd bet that if DoC came in now as manager, Mullane would be announcing his comeback.
If something along those lines was to happen, I'd lose a lot a respect for the man

Sam Swarek

robopaddy wrote: »

This dosent look good at all......

Feel very sorry for him if thats the case, didnt deserve that. Has always been a real players man and if the pleyers have ousted him it will hurt him deeply. Very surprised at the Waterford players thought the ego's of old had all been moved on. Obviously not. I note the reference to '2012 players' theres only one man with the influence there....

This will run pretty deep as Ryan has close ties to some of the Waterford players and that cant have gone down well. This saga isnt over by a long shot... if what were led to beleive is true.

not a nice way for him to go alright and hopefully it wont upset his clubmates involved in the panel. nobody can doubt his passion and commitment to Waterford and the players wont look good coming out of this.