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Meath GAA discussion thread

Hammer Archer

Well Galway has a thread, Mayo has one, even Cavan has one so why not us?

Two one point defeats in a row means we're back into relegation trouble especially if we lose to Derry next week. Having said that, beat Derry next week and promotion is still a (remote) possibility. Joe Sheridan leaving for the States certainly isn't going to help.
Thought the performance yesterday was easily the worst of the league. Our away form is killing us still.

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Lemlin

Royal Legend wrote: »

Thanks Lemlin, you got over a real banana skin yesterday, I would not write youse off against Kerry either.
In some ways we are better off finishing like we did last night, we are still a work in the early stages of progress and I don't think I could watch us trying to play another anti football team this summer. When I got home I watched the tape of the game, two things stood out, Kevin Reilly's non foul at the end, which for some reason RTE did not show a replay of and Brolley's comments afterwards, for once I had to agree 100% with the man, especially the "holier than thou" comment.
For me personally, I had Newman as Man of the Match, he was a constant threat, won his own ball against experienced negative defending, won the peno, setup the goal, set up numerous chance for others. Last night was the first time I really saw the how people could compare his potential to a young Brian Stafford
The future is bright and it is Green, there will be a lot of pressure for the lads to build on this next year, don't expect too much next year, I would give them at least 2 years to build on this, a lot of teams would have taken notice of us this year and the likes of Wallace, Newman and Reilly can expect a lot of extra unwanted attention next year. I still think we have big issues at midfield. At least I don't have to comment on Tyrone, I have always viewed them as they were viewed by the majority of spectators last night (except the two clowns in the commentary box), the black card will kill them off next year, they could also do with bringing it in for feigning injury as well.
I am not going to knock Joe or Brian, but they do not look to be at the races anymore as regards the pace of games, it was a mistake not to start Peadar. Both Joe and Brian have given us a lot of enjoyment during some lean years and that should not be forgotten. Other than that Mick O'Dowd and the whole Meath setup have put the pride and passion back into Meath football and for that they deserve all the plaudits.
An Mhi Abu

My one worry for Meath is players coming through - other than the minor team which reached the AI final last year, ye haven't had any underage success I can think of.

I said before the season started that Farrell and Joe weren't up to it but it appears to me that yas are stuck in a bit of a rut as there's nothing coming through to replace them.

Royal Legend

Lemlin wrote: »

My one worry for Meath is players coming through - other than the minor team which reached the AI final last year, ye haven't had any underage success I can think of.

I said before the season started that Farrell and Joe weren't up to it but it appears to me that yas are stuck in a bit of a rut as there's nothing coming through to replace them.

I would say that Newman and Wallace are the new replacements for the two of them, there is plenty of attacking talent in Meath, backup for midfield is the thing, we need O'Rourke back and at least one other.

royaler83

Lemlin wrote: »

My one worry for Meath is players coming through - other than the minor team which reached the AI final last year, ye haven't had any underage success I can think of.

I said before the season started that Farrell and Joe weren't up to it but it appears to me that yas are stuck in a bit of a rut as there's nothing coming through to replace them.

Wallace newman carroll menton keogan harnan tormey are all either in their 1st r 2nd year. Apparently only 6 of the team that beat kildare last year started against the dubs this year, O dowds not afraid mix in these young lads with the more experienced fellas. I do agree though that Joe n Farrells best days are behind them

Lemlin

Royal Legend wrote: »

I would say that Newman and Wallace are the new replacements for the two of them, there is plenty of attacking talent in Meath, backup for midfield is the thing, we need O'Rourke back and at least one other.

But sure Newman and Wallace played today and so too did Joe, Farrell and Carroll?

Ye need at least two new forwards to replace Joe and Carroll. Them starting points to a lack of attacking talent for me.

Gillespie came on the last day into the half forwards and he didn't impress me either. So there's nothing on the bench which is the thing proving my point IMO.

Meath lack at least 6/7 players to have a good 20 man panel.

For example, a sub should add to a team e.g. Dublin springing Bastick in the Leinster final or McVitty coming on for Cavan yesterday. I haven't seen one Meath sub looked worth their place in 3 live games this year.

Lemlin

royaler83 wrote: »

Wallace newman carroll menton keogan harnan tormey are all either in their 1st r 2nd year. Apparently only 6 of the team that beat kildare last year started against the dubs this year, O dowds not afraid mix in these young lads with the more experienced fellas. I do agree though that Joe n Farrells best days are behind them

Six of the seven lads you named started yesterday. 5 were well worth their places, Carroll isn't and I haven't seen much of Tormey but he didn't add much when he came on.

Compare him to the lads Tyrone, Cavan or Galway were introducing yesterday and you'll see my point.

Michael Argue was 19 a month ago and came on against Derry for Cavan and scored two points and setup a goal. Daragh McVitty is 19 and was a revelation yesterday and against Derry when he came on. Meath haven't any subs on their bench to make an impression.

OiOshawott

One or two of the St. Pat's team that made it to the All-Ireland school's final this year (even though they were shocking that day) might get on the team in a few years time

paul71

Aren't we forgetting that we have had a terrible 2 years with injuries, Shane O'Rourke, David Bray and Davy Dalton. Plenty of talent coming through we just need to get injured players back.

davegrohl48

OiOshawott wrote: »

One or two of the St. Pat's team that made it to the All-Ireland school's final this year (even though they were shocking that day) might get on the team in a few years time

Big Joe was used very badly He has neither the engine or passing to play in middle third If only winning one ball in three at full forward I think it would have been the two point swing Meath needed Dont write him off yet If ORourke can get back ye will have two target men that will be a huge target area for route one ball Especially with black card and square ball gone Penalties, goals, tapover frees, punched points Having two big men makes ye a huge threat Said it before but think ye need a footballer much more than defender at centre back A man who can deliver it consistently to Reilly Newman Wallace or hit long route one Id love to see Bray tried there From what Iv seen he has all the attributes and think he could still popup for one/two scores a game He doesnt currently score as heavy that he is too big a loss upfront

Hibbeler

Lemlin wrote: »

My one worry for Meath is players coming through - other than the minor team which reached the AI final last year, ye haven't had any underage success I can think of.

I said before the season started that Farrell and Joe weren't up to it but it appears to me that yas are stuck in a bit of a rut as there's nothing coming through to replace them.

Until recently I'm not sure that there was a whole lot of emphasis placed on underage player development in Meath.

We have only ever won one All-Ireland at U-21 (1993) and three at minor level. The last minor win in 1992 so it can be seen that apart from the odd final appearance like last year that for a county like ours that likes to see itself as a major player at senior level and a traditional football county that we have a poor record at underage level. Especially in recent times when counties like Tyrone managed to translate good teams at underage into senior All-Irelands.

Now winning at underage does not necessarily translate into success. Galway have had some successes at U-21 in the last few years and are probably in the same place as Meath are at the moment despite being generally poorer than Meath in the years since 2001. But as Lemlin has pointed out the young players to come off Galway's bench are better than what we have atm.

I would hope that we will see more players that were in the all ireland final with the minors coming through to the seniors in the next couple of years. We already have one starting in Pauric Harnan and one who would have been there only for athletics in Eamon Wallace (who had his best game for Meath all year yesterday IMO). I'm not sure that there were any more from that team on the panel yesterday but I think we will see them soon.

Some good players on this years minor team as well and it was very disappointing to see them knocked out early on. They were beaten moreso out of tactical naivety than lack of talent. I know a couple of lads from my club on that squad and I know the amount of work and training they put in to get there and I admire them for it

I hope that Meath can continue to improve at underage (a lot of work still needed i imagine) and also players from the recent minor teams kept on board until under 21. The jump from minor to senior is a big one and not all can do it but it is important IMO to try to continue developing as many players as possible.

rpurfield

speaking of new forwards does anyone know much about the kerry lad playing for dunboyne, we played them in a league last week and my father was raving about him for most of yesterday especially in light of joes performance.just wondering if anyone had seen him

The Showstopper

rpurfield wrote: »

speaking of new forwards does anyone know much about the kerry lad playing for dunboyne, we played them in a league last week and my father was raving about him for most of yesterday especially in light of joes performance.just wondering if anyone had seen him

I was at a game that fella played in last month and he kicked some great points alright. If he can and wants to play for Meath then he must be worth try. No harm in trying lads early in the year. I would imagine as well that there is few good young players in Ratoath that will be given a go. Bobby O'Brien looks a good player and Joey Wallace is supposed to be fairly decent. We really do need more back up in midfield too, very short on options there. I know Conor Sheridan got a go there early this year but I haven't seen him play myself.

paul71

1. Paddy O Rourke

2. Donal Keogan
3. Kevin Reilly
4. Davy Dalton

5. Padraig Harnan
6. Brian Menton
7. Seamus Kenny

8. Conor Gilespie
9. Brian Meade

10. Eamon Wallace
11. Shane O Rourke
12. Graham Reilly

13. David Bray
14. Micky Newman
15. Stephen Bray

Looks good to me, no lack of talent coming through based on this with 2 teenagers and the majority under 25.

Lemlin

paul71 wrote: »

1. Paddy O Rourke

2. Donal Keogan
3. Kevin Reilly
4. Davy Dalton

5. Padraig Harnan
6. Brian Menton
7. Seamus Kenny

8. Conor Gilespie
9. Brian Meade

10. Eamon Wallace
11. Shane O Rourke
12. Graham Reilly

13. David Bray
14. Micky Newman
15. Stephen Bray

Looks good to me, no lack of talent coming through based on this with 2 teenagers and the majority under 25.

What about your sub bench? It's a 20 man game now. You also have to be able to cope with at least 2-3 injuries generally.

That's a good starting 15 alright but I still don't think the strength in depth is there and there are huge doubts over D. Bray and O'Rourke getting back to where they were.

Hammer Archer

rpurfield wrote: »

speaking of new forwards does anyone know much about the kerry lad playing for dunboyne, we played them in a league last week and my father was raving about him for most of yesterday especially in light of joes performance.just wondering if anyone had seen him

I saw him once in the championship and he stood out for me. Not sure if he's willing to go through an intercounty transfer though. If he wishes to play for Meath, then I would be in favour of giving him a shot at it.

The Showstopper wrote: »

No harm in trying lads early in the year. I would imagine as well that there is few good young players in Ratoath that will be given a go. Bobby O'Brien looks a good player and Joey Wallace is supposed to be fairly decent. We really do need more back up in midfield too, very short on options there. I know Conor Sheridan got a go there early this year but I haven't seen him play myself.

Bobby O'Brien would be a good shout. The only doubt I'd have about him is his temperament. He seemed to get wound up way too easily leading to stupid red cards in the past. Though I have to say this year he seems to have vastly improved on that front. I think Joey may be too slight for senior county football at the moment, but then again I thought that about Eamonn last year. I think Conor McGill (also Ratoath) could be worth a shout in the backs as well.

From this season's fringe players, I'd like to see Seán Tobin, McMahon, Dalton McDonagh and Brian Dillon be tried in the O'Byrne Cup and the league. Hopefully Alan Forde and Donnacha Tobin will return for next season. Can't see David Bray returning to his best. Doubtful about Shane O'Rourke as well.

rpurfield

Hammer Archer wrote: »

I saw him once in the championship and he stood out for me. Not sure if he's willing to go through an intercounty transfer though. If he wishes to play for Meath, then I would be in favour of giving him a shot at it.

from what my father heard at the game last week the whole transfer thing is done so its only a matter of him getting the nod if the management want him.im sure there are other players in the county too to be looked at and there will be ample chance when the championships swing back into gear

paul71

Lemlin wrote: »

What about your sub bench? It's a 20 man game now. You also have to be able to cope with at least 2-3 injuries generally.

That's a good starting 15 alright but I still don't think the strength in depth is there and there are huge doubts over D. Bray and O'Rourke getting back to where they were.

Alan Forde, Young, Carroll, Big Joe, Peadar Byrne, Cian Ward ??? (enigma), Tornley, Joe Wallace (Eamons brother), Brian Sheridan, M Burke. Plenty of back-up. I think we are 18 months from a seriously good team.

royaler83

paul71 wrote: »

Alan Forde, Young, Carroll, Big Joe, Peadar Byrne, Cian Ward ??? (enigma), Tornley, Joe Wallace (Eamons brother), Brian Sheridan, M Burke. Plenty of back-up. I think we are 18 months from a seriously good team.

Doubt Brian Sheridan will make it at this stage, 2 or 3 different managers have brought him in and looked at him but never came close to pushing for a place.

Ward could still be a huge player for Meath, maybe this year might be the kick up the backside he needs to work harder.

Forde and Tobin last year definitely showed huge potential

Hammer Archer

Think Jamie Queeney can feel hard done by that he was dropped earlier in the year. While maybe not always good enough to start, he was always a good player to bring on in the last 15 or 20 minutes of a tight game.

enricoh

watched the match again there and am still none the wiser about some of them tyrone frees. that last one that cavanagh scored was an absolute killer.
hope an open play style team go on and win this year. mayo for sam!

Lemlin

paul71 wrote: »

Alan Forde, Young, Carroll, Big Joe, Peadar Byrne, Cian Ward ??? (enigma), Tornley, Joe Wallace (Eamons brother), Brian Sheridan, M Burke. Plenty of back-up. I think we are 18 months from a seriously good team.

Forde I will give you. He looked good last year and has speed. I also agree re Peadar Byrne.

Carroll doesn't look up to it. As others have pointed out, either does Brian Sheridan who has been around years.

Big Joe, like Cian Ward, needs to go.

Burke has been poor of late. Maybe injuries have taken their toll as I remember him as alot better a few years back.

Are that lot as good as the benches of counties like Cavan, Galway, Dublin and Tyrone? I don't think so.

Hibbeler

Well there's still two rounds of group games to be played in the club championships and then the knock outs so there's plenty of club action left still. I'm sure the management team are already thinking about next year and will have a list of players that they will want to see playing for their clubs. I think we'll see plenty of new faces come next years league.

Rock Lesnar

enricoh wrote: »

watched the match again there and am still none the wiser about some of them tyrone frees.

Same here, ive never been so angry leaving a game, was sitting down near pitch level and could see that the frees he gave were never frees, to be honest when i heard he was the ref i feared the worst, cos against wexford he gave the same type of performance as the other night.

paul71

Lemlin wrote: »

Forde I will give you. He looked good last year and has speed. I also agree re Peadar Byrne.

Carroll doesn't look up to it. As others have pointed out, either does Brian Sheridan who has been around years.

Big Joe, like Cian Ward, needs to go.

Burke has been poor of late. Maybe injuries have taken their toll as I remember him as alot better a few years back.

Are that lot as good as the benches of counties like Cavan, Galway, Dublin and Tyrone? I don't think so.

Dont write off Carroll yet, I think there is enough in him to have a good future, he did not play as badly as many people seem to think he did against Dublin or Tyrone. He gave several defence splitting 40 yard foot passes in both games. Yes he did drift in and out of the games and on occasions walked into trouble but he is just a kid, an extra stone of muscle weight and years experience and I would be happy to see more of him.

Mickey Burke can do a job against a certain type of player but will be roasted by speed merchants, recognise that and he has something to offer.

Sheridan I am only suggesting as midfield cover and Thormley can provide same. Absolutely no reason why Joe (still only 29) or Cian Ward cannot offer something from the bench.

I have not even mentioned Dalton McDonagh, and there are quite a few more that others have mentioned, add in Gilsenan and there is a lot there.

What I am not sure of is Goal-keeper cover and of course as others have said Shane O'Rourke we just dont know what will happen and HE is the key factor IMO, with him we will be at the top table, without him we won't.

Hammer Archer

paul71 wrote: »

What I am not sure of is Goal-keeper cover and of course as others have said Shane O'Rourke we just dont know what will happen and HE is the key factor IMO, with him we will be at the top table, without him we won't.

I think Conor McHugh is good cover for Paddy in goals. From what I've seen of him in challenge matches and with the under 21s, he's a great communicator, great shot stopper and great under the high ball. But going by Paddy's performances this year, it would take an injury or a monumental collapse in form for him to be displaced.

Was brave enough to look back on the game today as well. Glad to see Deegan's decisions were just as bad on TV. Wallace's yellow was another baffling decision which I didn't notice on the day. Gormley grabs a hold of him off the ball, Wallace shakes him off, Gormley collapses holding his face and gets the free.

paul71

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Same here, ive never been so angry leaving a game, was sitting down near pitch level and could see that the frees he gave were never frees, to be honest when i heard he was the ref i feared the worst, cos against wexford he gave the same type of performance as the other night.

We are reading into the frees given to Tyrone, and of course you are all correct at least 50% of the scored frees given to Tyrone were not frees at all, just bad refereeing decisions. However, I am not as angry as some of you are about this. Why because the Tyrone forwards spotted something the Meath forwards did not. Deegan did not give the frees out of Bias, he did it because he is very easily fooled. Joe Sheridan got a free on the left about 8 minutes into the game for almost no contact, it was just as bad as the decisions given to Tyrone (with the exception of the comical decision to give Sean Cavanagh a free for tripping himself).

Newman missed the free, the Tyrone forwards played to this all day and went down if the heard footsteps behind them. Somebody should have noticed this and told the Meath forwards to do the same.

That was the difference between the teams, experience not ability.

saltandpepper10

would love to see shane orourke getting an injury free spell,what type of problems is he having?no expense should be spared in trying to get him fit.too good a talent for not just meath but the gaa as a whole to have to retire

shockframe

It will be interesting to follow meaths progress over the next year.

There is definitely the raw material along with galway to do a 'donegal'.

One thing about meath is that they are very much a last 12 team.For a county a bit off the glory years of the late 80s and late 90s they made 3 quarter finals between 2007-2010 so they are never far away.

They played ok on saturday but they always seem to play like that against the big teams. An injection of steel and footballing improvement could make them contenders.Minor teams have been in the all ireland series recently so get a return from that along with what seems to be a good senior manager and who knows

Felexicon

Lemlin wrote: »

Are that lot as good as the benches of counties like Cavan, Galway, Dublin and Tyrone? I don't think so.

Where are you going with this Cavan bench thing Lemlin?
Sure you have had a good run, but lads coming on and hitting a few scores against the likes of London and Derry does not put your bench in the same bracket as Dublin and Tyrone.
Sure you might eventually get there but two swallows does not make a summer my friend

snowgal

Originally Posted by Lemlin

Are that lot as good as the benches of counties like Cavan, Galway, Dublin and Tyrone? I don't think so.

yea what are you on about?? Cavan and Galway?? Not where close to Dublin, Tyrone. take the rose tinted glasses off there a minute.......

Lemlin

Felexicon wrote: »

Where are you going with this Cavan bench thing Lemlin?
Sure you have had a good run, but lads coming on and hitting a few scores against the likes of London and Derry does not put your bench in the same bracket as Dublin and Tyrone.
Sure you might eventually get there but two swallows does not make a summer my friend

In fairness, I was just comparing Meath to a few counties I've watched recently. I realise fully myself that the Dublin bench particularly will be hard to beat by any county. Nowhere has near their level of club football or population. Tyrone have had numerous underage teams come through. Galway I mentioned because I saw them at the weekend and thought their bench was strong. I wasn't comparing Cavan's bench to Tyrone or Dublin but my point is that Meath haven't even the bench of lesser counties like Cavan and Galway.

In relation to Cavan, I'm not referencing the London game at all for a start. You lads constantly mention missing Shane O'Rourke on this thread. Well Cavan are missing arguably our best and most influential player in Gearoid McKiernan and we've still made the last 8. Check the Kerry thread, one of the posters there mentioned Martin Reilly as a fine footballer. He wasn't even in the Cavan starting 15 at the start of this year and only got his chance because of an injury to Niall McDermott.

In reference to coming off the bench to kick points against Derry, Derry are a team just promoted to Division 1 and I'd argue they are better than any team Meath have beaten this year in championship football. My point is Cavan had on their bench two 19 year olds who came on and made a significant difference to the proceedings. I have yet to see any Meath sub who came on and made a difference against any team they played this year. That's why I think the bench and strength in depth is a big weakness.

As I pointed out, Dublin had Bastick who came on and helped their midfield. Meath had nothing on the bench except Paddy Gilsenan who did nothing but give the ball away IMO and Joe Sheridan who looks well past his best of two or three seasons ago. The other lads like Tormey weren't on the pitch that long but did nothing of note either. Against Tyrone, they were introducing Kyle Coney and Meath were introducing Bryan Farrell, who I said at the start of this year I wouldn't rate at all. Not to mention having Joe Sheridan on the field who was literally cheered off by his own supporters.

Meath have very little coming through in terms of underage. I watch club games myself and I know of at least one young lad who has played for the Meath minors and U21s who wouldn't lace the boots of my own club's best player yet my own club's best player in Cavan couldn't get onto the minor or U21s starting 15s.

IMO my point stands that Meath have 12 players who could put it up to any team but they are short after that.

Edit: Oh, and the Kerry poster mentions David Givney being a fine midfielder and how he is a massive fan. Givney couldn't get a game at midfield for Cavan in the league.